Artisan Cheese Making

[ezzra]

Hi All,

Near my prime now, retired of my choice, no financial worries or constrains and not much to do here in LOS I been toying with the idea of actually bringing to fruition lifelong quest and try my hand at making and producing an artisan cheeses out of any kind of milk available in Thailand, cow, sheep and goat, admittedly I have no experience in cheese making but I was hoping to take a workshop or a course either in Australia or Israel where cheese making reached an art level to give me the basics of cheese making and try to start a small boutique style cheese making business starting with the basics of cheeses and progress to better and harder to make verities,

The perfect scenario would be nice if I would be able to sell the products but if not I’ll just give them to my friends to enjoy,

Every county I visit I see huge varieties of homemade and artisan cheeses being offered at many venues from hyper markets to farmers markets, only here in Thailand we are forced to buy/eat what the supermarket supply us with which usually is the generic kind and if you want something a bit fancy you have to fork out bit of dosh to enjoy the “imported “cheeses, this operation can happened in Bkk where I’m or find a up country place close to the milk source, I did extensive reading on the subject and cheese making on a homemade level is not all that complicated just follow the rules and hygiene and through trial and error good results can be achieved,

I think is Doable, What do you think guys?

[Goinghomesoon]

This guy just outside Hua Hin makes cheese, I think he supplies mostly to restaurants www.delcasarothailand.com/ I read an interview with him in one of the touristy magazines where he said temperature and humidity play havoc with cheese and it took them a long time to get it right. Also that good quality milk supply is a major challenge.

[MrSquigle]

Ezz, go up into the mountains to do it where it is cooler and also you will find a supply of milk easier.

We drove past several small dairy farms on our last trip into the mountains.

Why not !!!

Make sure you send me some.

Just no 'blue' cheese. had some tonight made into a dip and dam_n near threw up it was so disgusting.

Edited December 22, 2007 by MrSquigle

[bina]

ezzra,

i

s not all that complicated just follow the rules and hygiene and through trial and error good results can be achieved,

i have to say, that even here in israel, the amount of boutique cheese makers cropping up is unbelievable but not all make any money... as u can read my other past posts on goats....

i live across from the guru of israeli cheeses and the developer of the major goat type for cheese here shai zelzter... his goats are all pastured and he lives eats a breathes 24/7/365 his goats and cheeses (and now wines so i've heard). the cheese courses here are excellent, i know of many people who have done them already. i personally make my own soft cheese at home; i hate cheese, but love goats...

most of the younger couples that have started up with the cheese making have not kept at it for a profitable business (shai does as does chaim in nataf, an other cheese guru here), we have goat rustling to the point of absurdity so many places just quit. also, keeping a productive milch goat is a time consuming labour intensive job. one guy from my kibbutz has switched from goat cheese production (zaanan goats- the swiss kind, lots of milk, low fat, penned raised) to cow milk because of labour cost and time, and market. (he's living in the negev kibbutz baari and has started marketing his boutique cheeses).

i found that most poeple did either goats, or cheeses i.e. one person concentrated on the goating, and the other on the cheesing. goats for milk take up a lot of time and energy especially in tropical rain filled thailand: good quality feed to get good lactation and high fat level; the proper breed for good milk but hardy for the climate; enough milk to make it worth your while (i use two liters of milk for a dinky small piece of what we call haloumi cheese , the kind that u can fry, or cook with, is a simple cheese made using vinegar or lemon as a curder.)... the hygiene is very difficult (i dont pastuerize but my goats are not pastured and were born in our goat pens and have no contact with other herd animals, are vaccinated for all the nasties (another problem in thailand i heard is the vaccine problem), and blood tested for chlymidia. i dont test my milk but i dont sell my product either.

milk goats get all the teat diseases u can imagine if u machine milk; if u hand milk, its time consuming (i milk a doe in about two minutes from start to stripping but i can only do a few at a time, my hands get tired.)

a fun rewarding hobby; a heartbreaking profession...

of udder importance (sp) is the udder: shape, teat and how its hung. yes, men , how its hung is very relevant also for milkers.

btw, in new zealand (i know new zealand is big, but still) some ex kibbutznikim from my kibbutz set up a cow dairy farm to make our israeli style white (wet, soft curd) cheeses that are now being marketed on el al flights!. she started out here doing same, but if u are in new zealand i can hook u up with them; they are very laid back folks, easy going...

Rupin agricultural college is THE place for cheesing courses including goat herd maintainance; not to mention a million small farms doing 'sadnaot- small courses but shai zelzter is the main man (and very eccentric i have to say)

will be glad to be of assistance,

bina

israel

Edited December 25, 2007 by bina

[JungleBiker]

Hi Ezzra,

Go here to read about an expat making goat cheese near Pattaya: http://www.asiagoat.com/

JB.

[ezzra]

Bina JB and

Thanks for the detailed information, a lot to ponder and to think about,

However, I could buy the milk from milk producers will take out

All the hard work of raising stock and I’ll just worry about the cheese

Production more for fun than profit,

Thanks again,

[wagoosh]

I see that since you had this idea, there have been some changes to the "cheese market" in Thailand,

What do you think about this "HomeMade-Cheese Co." ?

I am not sure, but i heard they are from Israel as well, do you know anything about it?

Are you related to them in anyway?

I dont think they make goat cheese, so maybe you can stiil do your thing here, that would be nice.

Btw, where can i get this Haloumi cheese Bina was refering to?

[ezzra]

I see that since you had this idea, there have been some changes to the "cheese market" in Thailand,

What do you think about this "HomeMade-Cheese Co." ?

I am not sure, but i heard they are from Israel as well, do you know anything about it?

Are you related to them in anyway?

I dont think they make goat cheese, so maybe you can stiil do your thing here, that would be nice.

Btw, where can i get this Haloumi cheese Bina was refering to?

Yes in deed few new players got in to the cheese game and company you are refereeing to are good cheese makers

albeit with not a large selection, i have tested their cheeses and found them to be satisfying and fairly priced,

with the Haloumi cheese, unfortunately no one make it yet here in bkk but if you google the subject

you can find easy instruction as to how to make it at home and you don't need and fancy cheese

making ingredient,

[bina]

pseudo holoumi cheese is easy to make at home:

a couple liters of fresh milk (i never pasteurized first): bring to almost boil, stir in lemon juice from a real lemon, not the synthetic or frozen stuff; or stir in vinegar) and turn off the flame. stir the milk a bit. it will curdle. pour in to a colander lined with diaper material cheese cloth, muslin or a thin clean white towel. careful as it is very hot liquid. grab all four corners of the material and bring together letting the liquid drain out, and slowly squelch the the sides to gether until u can tie the 'bag' shut. hang the 'bag' of 'cheese' up over night so it will drain. or place in colander over a large pot and place heavy weight on the bag of cheese. the drier it is the moreit will be like holoumi. the moister it is, the more it will be 'queso fresca' or like a plain feta cheese. u can stir salt in after u added the lemon or vinegar for a grainier and saltier texture and then its not holoumi.

experiment.

yes, the company could be israeli but it could be any mediterranean group. if it was israeli i would love to find them and get a job with them!!! and they have homous. hubby and i tried making it at his house but it didnt work out. plus his family didnt like olives either (i brought some canned ones with me when i came to visit).

bina

israel

btw, any success in the cheese area ezra?

[backsoon]

Hi All,

Near my prime now, retired of my choice, no financial worries or constrains and not much to do here in LOS I been toying with the idea of actually bringing to fruition lifelong quest and try my hand at making and producing an artisan cheeses out of any kind of milk available in Thailand, cow, sheep and goat, admittedly I have no experience in cheese making but I was hoping to take a workshop or a course either in Australia or Israel where cheese making reached an art level to give me the basics of cheese making and try to start a small boutique style cheese making business starting with the basics of cheeses and progress to better and harder to make verities,

The perfect scenario would be nice if I would be able to sell the products but if not I'll just give them to my friends to enjoy,

Every county I visit I see huge varieties of homemade and artisan cheeses being offered at many venues from hyper markets to farmers markets, only here in Thailand we are forced to buy/eat what the supermarket supply us with which usually is the generic kind and if you want something a bit fancy you have to fork out bit of dosh to enjoy the "imported "cheeses, this operation can happened in Bkk where I'm or find a up country place close to the milk source, I did extensive reading on the subject and cheese making on a homemade level is not all that complicated just follow the rules and hygiene and through trial and error good results can be achieved,

I think is Doable, What do you think guys?

Dear Ezra. Brilliant and timely idea. Real good cheeses are (i) hard to find (ii) unjustifiably expensive in Thailand. Wish you luck. I was thinking about this myself. The quality of locally made cheeses is obsene. Time someone gave the buggers a good stiff competition (if it is not against National Interests, God forbid!).

P.S. Where do you live here? If close, we can talk further.

Dear Ezra, Good and timely idea. Good (authentic) cheeses are very hard to find in Thailand.

[CTO]

I'm going to try the recipe tonight! Ezra - how did it go????

[CTO]

It worked! I added a cup of plain yogurt and let it stand till cool for 4 hours - then squeezed. No cheese cloth so used a old red towel - tastes great!

[bina]

which recipe ? i think what u made is labane: not really a cheese btw... we use one liter of yougurt, two small containers of sour cream and one 250 ml of white cheese (dont think that can be gotten outside of israel and in new zealand -friends make that cheese in new zealand) add cup of lemon juice, salt, stir, hang in cheese cloth bag over night or press for two to three days with heavy weight. labane is finished. u can then spread it, roll in small balls and store in olive oil, or serve with olive oil sprinkled on top...

bina

israel

hard cheeses are much more difficult and i know of several boutique dairies here ; they almost all import their french cultures for each of the types of cheese they make....

bina

israel

[CTO]

The recipe you gave I think it was you - Milk (I used cow) lemon - Bring to boil add - put in cheese cloth.

I added the yogurt - tasts good - I burnt the milk a little by accident but that added a "Smokey" flavour.

Store in Olive Oil in Balls? Or cut into cube and into bring?

Maybe I'll do both

[bina]

cto

i think u you mixed up two different recipes!!! holoumi (quesa fresca), the other is labane

one is the holoumi: boiling just barely the milk, add the vinegar or lemon, pour through cheese cloth bag and let hang or press for a day, then refrigerate. lasts about 5 days.

labane: gallon jug of yougurt mixed with 500 ml of sour cream, plus optional white cheese (not to be found outside of israel i think); mix with cup of lemon juice (no pits please) and tablespoon of salt. pour into cheese cloth bag, or on to a clean towel placed in a colander. place colander over bowl or in sink (preferably over bowl) and put in fridgerator for two to three days. dump out of towel/colander into bowl, pour some olive oil over it , then u have labane.

if u want, press out more of the liquid then carefully roll small balls of the labane, place in container with olive oil. store in fridge (can also be stored out of fridge for few days but they get soft and squishy) with all the balls being covered in the oil.

labane made with goats milk yougurt is much tastier; labane lasts a long time if kept in olive oil. use as spread, or along with salads.

the holoumi, what u made, i never thought of adding yogurt but good idea ) ... taste of scalded milk... either u like it or u hate it. boil the milk in a pan over a pot of boiling water, that way, no scalding. u can add spices to the holoumi once u have poured it in to a cheese cloth: oregano, caraway, coarse black pepper, garlic, or paprika. but the holoumi will spoil faster...

enjoy

bina

israel

[aonangj]

cto

i think u you mixed up two different recipes!!! holoumi (quesa fresca), the other is labane

one is the holoumi: boiling just barely the milk, add the vinegar or lemon, pour through cheese cloth bag and let hang or press for a day, then refrigerate. lasts about 5 days.

labane: gallon jug of yougurt mixed with 500 ml of sour cream, plus optional white cheese (not to be found outside of israel i think); mix with cup of lemon juice (no pits please) and tablespoon of salt. pour into cheese cloth bag, or on to a clean towel placed in a colander. place colander over bowl or in sink (preferably over bowl) and put in fridgerator for two to three days. dump out of towel/colander into bowl, pour some olive oil over it , then u have labane.

if u want, press out more of the liquid then carefully roll small balls of the labane, place in container with olive oil. store in fridge (can also be stored out of fridge for few days but they get soft and squishy) with all the balls being covered in the oil.

labane made with goats milk yougurt is much tastier; labane lasts a long time if kept in olive oil. use as spread, or along with salads.

the holoumi, what u made, i never thought of adding yogurt but good idea ) ... taste of scalded milk... either u like it or u hate it. boil the milk in a pan over a pot of boiling water, that way, no scalding. u can add spices to the holoumi once u have poured it in to a cheese cloth: oregano, caraway, coarse black pepper, garlic, or paprika. but the holoumi will spoil faster...

enjoy

bina

israel

I know I am really late to this thread, but hoping you will help. I love to cook authentic Mexican food. Trying to figure out how to make Queso Fresco (Quesa Fresca) and I see that you have done it here. Issue I was having was looked like I have to have raw milk (un-pastuerized), but above it sounds like someone made it successfully? Did you use regular store bought Whole Milk, or did you find fresh raw milk somewhere? Would really love to make Queso Fresco for my Mexican food.

Thanks,

Jeremy

[bina]

actually i milked my own goats so always had a stock of unpastuerized milk on hand... not sure about doing it with whole pasteurized milk, just try. its a real general recipe... vinegar or lemon and milk... the milk has to be almost boiling and then immediately turned off, let the milk clot, then strain and press...

good luck

bina

[aonangj]

actually i milked my own goats so always had a stock of unpastuerized milk on hand... not sure about doing it with whole pasteurized milk, just try. its a real general recipe... vinegar or lemon and milk... the milk has to be almost boiling and then immediately turned off, let the milk clot, then strain and press...

good luck

bina

Thanks Bina. I read somewhere that it couldn't be homogenized (because it won't curdle) but it didn't mention anything about pasteurization. I can't read Thai well yet, but the Milk I got today was whole milk and said it was pasteurized but didn't say (at least in English) that it was homogenized. I was looking for a candy thermometer, but couldn't find one, but I think I am just going to give it a go and see what happens. The worst thing it cost me is some time and a half a gallon of milk. I will report back if it works though. If it doesn't work it could be for other reasons (primarily my lack of experience and a thermometer) but if it does work, big, big win!

Thanks again for the advice!

[aonangj]

Thanks so much bina for the instructions. It totally worked! So easy too! Even with the store bought milk. Queso Fresco in Thailand baby! A couple of pics one with some home-made Mango Salsa I made today as well. Feliz Navidad!