Exit Poll Results Show PPP Wins

[thaigene2]

Yes- well now that few doubt that the coup was less about Thaksin's own corruption, and more about rich/middleclass/elite fear of TRT or PPP or whomever to rally the masses, we're in a real pickle, no?

I still say this has ALWAYS been about shutting down the one-man-one-vote idea and returning the country to the (rather disgusting) people who THINK the country is "theirs".

I would refrain from the language used by 'pumpuiman' - but you never know..

BBC is calling Samak the 'winner' of the election (who is also rather disgusting while we're on the topic..could never understand why what 'should' be a leftist-party would have such a right-winger as leader - anyway - TIT)

Main point is this - if all the big int'l broadcasters say he won - can the elitists pull a rabbit out of the hat to deny this guy the right to govern? Are there other examples where a minority leader has such a clear lead that he is denied? Is that democratic??

[bulmercke]

Banharn announces to stay with Puea Pandin - The Nation - LATEST -

Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa announced late Sunday night that his party would stay with the Puea Pandin Party.

But, Banharn said, it was not certain yet as to whether the two parties would join the People Power Party or Democrat Party.

Banharn said the ballot tally was still going on so he and Puea Pandin leader Suwit Khunkitti decided to wait until the final results of the election were known first.

Banharn as we all know can change allegiances and loyalty at the drop of a hat. His only loyalty is to himself and his party. Seems like he's keeping his options wide open now.

But fairly irrelevant now - PPP have won - but their main concern must focus on an unprecedented interference by a third party.

[yorkman]

Someone has already posted about how the NE was devoid of vote buying

Not so, my brother in law got propositioned (ohh missis) for this this morning.

I am sure he is not alone......

But by which party was he propositioned?

Earlier posts had suggested that vote buying had been attempted by minor parties, but not the PPP.

Can you confirm that the PPP has done so with the brother in law?

No I can't (as this is a public board) . Suffice to say, he voted as he saw fit, and as a teacher it was not PPP. He was let down by their surrogates last time. Despite being the son of a (much derided) rice farmer in Issan, he is not stupid.

[SamuiJens]

Samak is on CNN now.

Well he isn't on anymore

[hammered]

Banharn announces to stay with Puea Pandin - The Nation - LATEST -

Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa announced late Sunday night that his party would stay with the Puea Pandin Party.

But, Banharn said, it was not certain yet as to whether the two parties would join the People Power Party or Democrat Party.

Banharn said the ballot tally was still going on so he and Puea Pandin leader Suwit Khunkitti decided to wait until the final results of the election were known first.

Banharn as we all know can change allegiances and loyalty at the drop of a hat. His only loyalty is to himself and his party. Seems like he's keeping his options wide open now.

But fairly irrelevant now - PPP have won - but their main concern must focus on an unprecedented interference by a third party.

And willone day the bs diasppear and the third party actually be named

[onethailand]

Banharn announces to stay with Puea Pandin - The Nation - LATEST -

As hammered was saying...

[hammered]

Banharn announces to stay with Puea Pandin - The Nation - LATEST -

As hammered was saying...

Old ATM man and Mr 20% wouldnt want to be jiltesd at the last by man called Kunttittie

[Plus]

It will be suicidal for Banharn to join PPP government even as Prime Minister - his suppporters are anti-Thaksin and they won't accept that.

When he mumbled something about it during the rally in Isan, he saw immediate drop in rankings. Even his own MPs will revolt.

Suwit could be tempted, but he is not really in charge of Pua Paendin.

Samak might be bragging about victory, but the fact is he ran ALONE against ALL other parties combined on his stupid pro-Thaksin issue, and he lost THAT battle.

PPP got itself isolated early on, it won't be easy to find allies now. Abhisit is playing it safe by passing the ball into Samak's court - can you find any partners to form the government? Because if you can't, we can help out the country by forming OUR government, easily.

A compromise could be reached if Samak drops all his proTRT talk about overturning court decisions.

Whatever the final configuration is, pushing for the amnesty or for return of Thaksin without outright majority will be impossible, Samak led government will fall flat on its face at the first hurdle in the parlament and the guy himself will be charged for corruption and stripped of his MP status, and PPP will be very hard pressed to prove to their paymaster that they can deliver any returns on the investments.

Bottom line is - if the elections were against the coup or about return of Thaksin - the majority clearly said NO. That majority might be split among several parties but it doesn't really matter. Pro Thaksin vote lost - they either should drop the agenda or admit the defeat and let the others form the government.

>>>>>>

Nothing can stop Prem from meeting party leaders, there's nothing illegal or sinister about it. I would expect Samak to have a word or two with Prem if HE gets the PM post, too. Though these two might not need to talk - they can pretty much read each other's minds anyway. The government MUST be seen as accepted in those quarters, and those quarters MUST show that the government is accepted, too, they can't show splits in that area.

[pumpuiman]

Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa announced late Sunday night that his party would stay with the Puea Pandin Party.

But, Banharn said, it was not certain yet as to whether the two parties would join the People Power Party or Democrat Party.

I imagine the bids are coming in hot and heavy.

With an "anonymous" bidder from Hong Kong topping them all.

[Rinrada]

k Wifies jumping and down going on about how Thailand ..her country will be strong agin......I told you so..yes (to me that is)...when we get Mr Taxin back you will see........Yes ...everyone want him......

all her relatives voted for Sami boy.of course..cos she told 'em to.........and thats it.......

...me .....I m off for a pint.......

[bulmercke]

Yes- well now that few doubt that the coup was less about Thaksin's own corruption, and more about rich/middleclass/elite fear of TRT or PPP or whomever to rally the masses, we're in a real pickle, no?

I still say this has ALWAYS been about shutting down the one-man-one-vote idea and returning the country to the (rather disgusting) people who THINK the country is "theirs".

I would refrain from the language used by 'pumpuiman' - but you never know..

BBC is calling Samak the 'winner' of the election (who is also rather disgusting while we're on the topic..could never understand why what 'should' be a leftist-party would have such a right-winger as leader - anyway - TIT)

Main point is this - if all the big int'l broadcasters say he won - can the elitists pull a rabbit out of the hat to deny this guy the right to govern? Are there other examples where a minority leader has such a clear lead that he is denied? Is that democratic??

thaigene2 - in reply to your first question - yes they can - undoubtedly.

In reply to your second question - Al Gore was deprived of the US precidency because of massive vote fraud connected to rigged voting machines and the connivance of George Bush's brother - Jeb - in the state of Florida - and also the unconstitutional actions of the supreme court - to cut a long story short.

[DirkGently]

ONETHAILAND, I have yelled at my wife for lying to me while translating a news 'show' about the sale. It was not that Singapore was going to strap on their jackboots and march in, it was that many soft and unimaginative Thais were led to beleive that. I'm sure that the news is biased and that it may have been propaganda. However, it was in the media. i recall reading comments in the Bangkok Post. Here is another leap of faith for you. Thee are some people who don't know everything!

[VegasVic]

Let me get this straight in my head. Thaksin and his henchmen ran the country like their own business and ladeled off the cream. They became hated by the country for selling a telecommunications company to the Singaporians which lead to paranoid panic amongst the populace. Aformentioned people were ousted and ran for the hills with sacks of cash. A trip to the courts led to little more than musical chairs amongst the parties. A little over a year later Samak, whose every word smaks of arrogence, reaches the top with, along with a few vague policies, and vows to bring Thaksin back.

It seems the anti-vote buying people are as effective as the anti-elephants in Bangkok police.

Good to know that Chalerm and his non-cop killing children are close by.

Apparently you need to get out of BKK more often Mr. Shinawatra became hated not by the country but by the Thai elite in BKK, in most of the country (and by thai expats worldwide) he is still held in very high esteem. If the outcome of the election is as has been represented here then I would think that Thaksin will not only return, but may very well assume a position similiar to the one that Mr. Putin has ordained himself in Russia! Hopefully over the coming weeks the new government can get organized and unified (to whatever degree that is possible) and show the world that Thailand is a stable democracy and a safe and reliable place to do business and to invest in. If on the other hand there is bloodshed or a lot of public infighting between the new government factions, then that could have just the opposite effect and the thai economy and market could take a substantial downturn. Lets hope the former is the scenario that plays out, even though the Thaksin haters may not like it, it is clearly the best path for the Thai people!

[hammered]

Yes- well now that few doubt that the coup was less about Thaksin's own corruption, and more about rich/middleclass/elite fear of TRT or PPP or whomever to rally the masses, we're in a real pickle, no?

I still say this has ALWAYS been about shutting down the one-man-one-vote idea and returning the country to the (rather disgusting) people who THINK the country is "theirs".

I would refrain from the language used by 'pumpuiman' - but you never know..

BBC is calling Samak the 'winner' of the election (who is also rather disgusting while we're on the topic..could never understand why what 'should' be a leftist-party would have such a right-winger as leader - anyway - TIT)

Main point is this - if all the big int'l broadcasters say he won - can the elitists pull a rabbit out of the hat to deny this guy the right to govern? Are there other examples where a minority leader has such a clear lead that he is denied? Is that democratic??

thaigene2 - in reply to your first question - yes they can - undoubtedly.

In reply to your second question - Al Gore was deprived of the US precidency because of massive vote fraud connected to rigged voting machines and the connivance of George Bush's brother - Jeb - in the state of Florida - and also the unconstitutional actions of the supreme court - to cut a long story short.

Good to se some honesty on the gore Bush affair that has ben shoddily reported in spite of the documented Voluisia county shift of votes.

[rafval]

seems to me that if the military hadnt been so busy rushing to set things up so they can maintain some control they may have remembered to adjust the electorate boundaries to make it them fairer, it would have worked to their advantage and they wouldnt have the problem they have now, but I guess that would have taken some forward thinking unlike jumping on a tank after a few whiskies

To make them 'fairer'... LOL. Anyway, some of that was actually done.

BUT personally I think that buy tweaking boundaries here and there the best you can hope to gain is a handful of 'boundary' seats.. Especially looking at the political map of Thailand: The Democrats don't have a leg to stand on outside of the South and urban centers (Bangkok especially).. How would you change boundaries to turn that around? You just can't. When the popular vote is overwhelmingly towards one party then you don't turn that around by fiddling in the margins.

I may be wrong, but the results I saw it seems both parties got about the same amount of votes but ppp has more seats, so that doesn't seem particularly fair to me, Im no expert on thai politics tho, perhaps I have misread something

[thaigene2]

Bottom line is - if the elections were against the coup or about return of Thaksin - the majority clearly said NO. That majority might be split among several parties but it doesn't really matter. Pro Thaksin vote lost - they either should drop the agenda or admit the defeat and let the others form the government.

>>>>>>

Nothing can stop Prem from meeting party leaders, there's nothing illegal or sinister about it. I would expect Samak to have a word or two with Prem if HE gets the PM post, too. Though these two might not need to talk - they can pretty much read each other's minds anyway. The government MUST be seen as accepted in those quarters, and those quarters MUST show that the government is accepted, too, they can't show splits in that area.

Now why should they let the "others" form the government? In any democratic election that I've ever followed - and I've follwed several in a variety of countries - when there is a CLEAR LEADER but with no clear majority, the head of state is 'usually' obliged to offer the leading party the chance to form a Government. It's not a case of "Oh we don't like the poor people's party - cause they stink of Thaksin - so skip it and ask the nice rich Chinese Democrat guy."

Sorry pal - doesn't work that way. And if anyone tries to do that then ir reckon there could be some trouble. The way it 'usually' works is to let (in this case PPP) 'try' to govern, and it will become clear pretty soon whether or not they can (with partners). No one goes to the King or a President and says - "yep, me and Billy over here have a deal to form a minority Government."

The head of state leaves it up to winner to sort it out - if it doesn't work. The Government falls on 'co confidence' votes and off we go again to the polls.

That's why I say the rich/elites are freaking out - cause they KNOW they have to do a deal with the poor people...but they are still in denial...and THAT IS WORRYING!

[Dario]

May I ask my fellow readers if I got this right:

To form a coalition, PPP needs to have a minimum of 241 house seats, right?!

It has, according to the latest results at http://203.150.244.10/reports/eng/index.php?showall=1& now 192 + 32 = 224 MPs. All he would need, is an additional 17 MPs to join the coalition. If Chart Thai is not willing to join, and they won't, then all they need is Pua Paendin. It'll be easy to entice them and the other 3 small parties and Samak would be the PM, although almost all of us would prefer to see Abhisit to take up the post. Looks like Samak knows what he is doing when he declared that he will be the next PM.

I just refreshed the site and it looks now that Samak would now need 3 more MPs. Unfortunately, looks to me as even if every other party would join the Democrats, they could never reach the majorityof 241 seats ...

Edited December 23, 2007 by Dario

[hammered]

seems to me that if the military hadnt been so busy rushing to set things up so they can maintain some control they may have remembered to adjust the electorate boundaries to make it them fairer, it would have worked to their advantage and they wouldnt have the problem they have now, but I guess that would have taken some forward thinking unlike jumping on a tank after a few whiskies

To make them 'fairer'... LOL. Anyway, some of that was actually done.

BUT personally I think that buy tweaking boundaries here and there the best you can hope to gain is a handful of 'boundary' seats.. Especially looking at the political map of Thailand: The Democrats don't have a leg to stand on outside of the South and urban centers (Bangkok especially).. How would you change boundaries to turn that around? You just can't. When the popular vote is overwhelmingly towards one party then you don't turn that around by fiddling in the margins.

I may be wrong, but the results I saw it seems both parties got about the same amount of votes but ppp has more seats, so that doesn't seem particularly fair to me, Im no expert on thai politics tho, perhaps I have misread something

PPP better at the constituency system than Dems. Not unusual in many sytems. Maybe the generals should have gone for PR if they wanted to finish T man for good.

[onethailand]

ONETHAILAND, I have yelled at my wife for lying to me while translating a news 'show' about the sale. It was not that Singapore was going to strap on their jackboots and march in, it was that many soft and unimaginative Thais were led to beleive that. I'm sure that the news is biased and that it may have been propaganda. However, it was in the media. i recall reading comments in the Bangkok Post. Here is another leap of faith for you. Thee are some people who don't know everything!

There was no panic amongst the populace. Yes, this news was reported. Yes, it caused a bit of a stir in some parts - but calling it a panic is a bit of an exaggeration. If you would be so kind as to provide any link to said reports of panic - even one - I would most appreciate it.

By the way, I did not require a translation.

Edited December 23, 2007 by onethailand

[yorkman]

k Wifies jumping and down going on about how Thailand ..her country will be strong agin......I told you so..yes (to me that is)...when we get Mr Taxin back you will see........Yes ...everyone want him......

all her relatives voted for Sami boy.of course..cos she told 'em to.........and thats it.......

...me .....I m off for a pint.......

errrrr..enjoy.

Don't hit the delete button until you wake up :D

[tropo]

Thaksin ally wins Thai election - BBC NEWS - UPDATE -

There's a far better report in Time:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thaksin Allies Ahead in Thai Vote

(Bangkok, Thailand) — Allies of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra appeared to emerge as victors in Thailand's post-coup election Sunday but failed to secure an absolute majority in parliament, according to unofficial results from the Election Commission.

The outcome is likely to deepen the country's two-year political crisis.

With 80 percent of the vote counted, the pro-Thaksin People's Power Party won 230 seats in the 480-seat lower house of parliament, the Election Commission said.

The rival Democrat Party won 161 seats.

PPP's head Samak Sundaravej told a news conference that Thaksin, who was said to be in Hong Kong, had telephoned after hearing the results.

"Thaksin said congratulations," Samak told a news conference, calling on "any political parties" to join PPP to form a coalition government.

Thaksin was ousted in a bloodless coup in September 2006 but retains widespread popularity among the rural majority. PPP campaigned on a platform of bringing Thaksin back from exile in London and continuing his populist policies.

Full results were expected before noon EST in an election billed as a return to democracy after 15 months of military-backed government.

Failure to capture an absolute majority might allow the Democrat Party to bring in partners to form a coalition government.

Intense horse-trading is expected in coming days, even weeks, before a government is formed and a new prime minister announced.

Some victors may also lose their seats if found guilty of electoral violations.

Ruangroj Jomsueb, an Election Commission spokeman, said the commission was investigating more than 100 cases of irregularities, mostly related to vote-buying which was reportedly rampant in rural areas.

Voters among the 45 million eligible cast ballots for about 5,000 candidates from 39 political parties.

The contest pitted the PPP, seen as a reincarnation of Thaksin's outlawed Thai Rak Thai Party, against the Democrat Party, the country's oldest.

PPP leaders said Thaksin, who was watching the election from Hong Kong, would return to Thailand early next year, sparking fears of continued political turbulence and sharp polarization.

"The economy was prosperous when Thaksin was prime minister and I voted for the People's Power Party because the party leader promised to bring Thaksin back to the country," said Pranee Teamsri, the owner of a tailor shop on Bangkok's outskirts after emerging from a polling station.

But others in Bangkok, where the Democrat Party is strong, criticized Thaksin's regime for its corruption, saying the former leader had left Thailand in "a mess."

The top rivals for next prime minister are a study in stark contrasts.

Samak, 72, is an acid-tongued, ultra-rightist dubbed a political dinosaur by the local press. He has been charged with involvement in corrupt deals while serving as Bangkok's mayor. But he is seen as Thaksin's proxy and his earthy style appeals to many.

The 43-year-old Abhisit Vejjajiva, who leads the Democrats, is regarded as an intelligent, honest politician but lacking the common touch needed to connect with the mass electorate. English-born and educated at Eton and Oxford, critics say he is more comfortable in elite circles than wooing the key rural voters.

Thaksin faces a slew of corruption charges but remains popular among the rural masses and lower income urban residents to whom he offered cheap loans, virtually free medical care and village based development schemes.

The prospect of Thaksin's return has raised fears of another coup by the powerful military.

Last week, the military-installed parliament approved a controversial internal security law that critics warned will allow the military to maintain a grip on power even after the election.

The election comes after almost two years of intense political instability that began with popular demonstrations demanding that Thaksin resign because of alleged corruption and abuse of power. The protest culminated in the coup.

After the coup, Thaksin, a 58-year-old billionaire, was barred from office for five years and charged with a barrage of corruption-related crimes. He lives in self-imposed exile in England, where he owns the Manchester City soccer club.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thailand can never become a democratic country. Once the military have taken over, kiss it goodbye...forever.

Edited December 23, 2007 by tropo

[hammered]

Bottom line is - if the elections were against the coup or about return of Thaksin - the majority clearly said NO. That majority might be split among several parties but it doesn't really matter. Pro Thaksin vote lost - they either should drop the agenda or admit the defeat and let the others form the government.

>>>>>>

Nothing can stop Prem from meeting party leaders, there's nothing illegal or sinister about it. I would expect Samak to have a word or two with Prem if HE gets the PM post, too. Though these two might not need to talk - they can pretty much read each other's minds anyway. The government MUST be seen as accepted in those quarters, and those quarters MUST show that the government is accepted, too, they can't show splits in that area.

Now why should they let the "others" form the government? In any democratic election that I've ever followed - and I've follwed several in a variety of countries - when there is a CLEAR LEADER but with no clear majority, the head of state is 'usually' obliged to offer the leading party the chance to form a Government. It's not a case of "Oh we don't like the poor people's party - cause they stink of Thaksin - so skip it and ask the nice rich Chinese Democrat guy."

Sorry pal - doesn't work that way. And if anyone tries to do that then ir reckon there could be some trouble. The way it 'usually' works is to let (in this case PPP) 'try' to govern, and it will become clear pretty soon whether or not they can (with partners). No one goes to the King or a President and says - "yep, me and Billy over here have a deal to form a minority Government."

The head of state leaves it up to winner to sort it out - if it doesn't work. The Government falls on 'co confidence' votes and off we go again to the polls.

That's why I say the rich/elites are freaking out - cause they KNOW they have to do a deal with the poor people...but they are still in denial...and THAT IS WORRYING!

except in that darling democarcy of the west called the ukraine where the big party got shafted by a cobbled together coalition with a majority of two!

[yorkman]

Good to se some honesty on the gore Bush affair that has ben shoddily reported in spite of the documented Voluisia county shift of votes.

So. Yes. Good Point

[VegasVic]

Yes- well now that few doubt that the coup was less about Thaksin's own corruption, and more about rich/middleclass/elite fear of TRT or PPP or whomever to rally the masses, we're in a real pickle, no?

I still say this has ALWAYS been about shutting down the one-man-one-vote idea and returning the country to the (rather disgusting) people who THINK the country is "theirs".

I would refrain from the language used by 'pumpuiman' - but you never know..

BBC is calling Samak the 'winner' of the election (who is also rather disgusting while we're on the topic..could never understand why what 'should' be a leftist-party would have such a right-winger as leader - anyway - TIT)

Main point is this - if all the big int'l broadcasters say he won - can the elitists pull a rabbit out of the hat to deny this guy the right to govern? Are there other examples where a minority leader has such a clear lead that he is denied? Is that democratic??

thaigene2 - in reply to your first question - yes they can - undoubtedly.

In reply to your second question - Al Gore was deprived of the US precidency because of massive vote fraud connected to rigged voting machines and the connivance of George Bush's brother - Jeb - in the state of Florida - and also the unconstitutional actions of the supreme court - to cut a long story short.

Bulmerc, Please don't cut a long story short, please sir I beg of you tell us all of the vast right wing conspiracy in the U.S. in its entirity God knows that with all the tension brought on by the election in Thailand we could all use a good chuckle right about now. Now that you have made me aware that the supreme court is also involved in the vast right wing conspiracy, I really need to know the whole story so please regail us with your (Clintonesc) delusions

[thaigene2]

Yes- well now that few doubt that the coup was less about Thaksin's own corruption, and more about rich/middleclass/elite fear of TRT or PPP or whomever to rally the masses, we're in a real pickle, no?

I still say this has ALWAYS been about shutting down the one-man-one-vote idea and returning the country to the (rather disgusting) people who THINK the country is "theirs".

I would refrain from the language used by 'pumpuiman' - but you never know..

BBC is calling Samak the 'winner' of the election (who is also rather disgusting while we're on the topic..could never understand why what 'should' be a leftist-party would have such a right-winger as leader - anyway - TIT)

Main point is this - if all the big int'l broadcasters say he won - can the elitists pull a rabbit out of the hat to deny this guy the right to govern? Are there other examples where a minority leader has such a clear lead that he is denied? Is that democratic??

thaigene2 - in reply to your first question - yes they can - undoubtedly.

In reply to your second question - Al Gore was deprived of the US precidency because of massive vote fraud connected to rigged voting machines and the connivance of George Bush's brother - Jeb - in the state of Florida - and also the unconstitutional actions of the supreme court - to cut a long story short.

While I agree that Gore was ripped off, I don;t think you can compare the two elections. Anyway you look at the US elxn it was down to one state - Florida. Here it Thailand, the PPP captured nearly 50% of the votes in a 5 party contest - but fell just short of an outright majority! To deny them the opportunity to govern would be incredible. On what grounds? They smell like Thaksin? Anyway, like I say, ya just never know here what will be uttered next. Let's see..Happy holidays!

[yorkman]

This has absolutely nothing to do with with the USA, or at least in a (wished for) democratic world, this has absolutely nothing to do with the USA

Back on subject please, the results in Thailand

[hammered]

Yes- well now that few doubt that the coup was less about Thaksin's own corruption, and more about rich/middleclass/elite fear of TRT or PPP or whomever to rally the masses, we're in a real pickle, no?

I still say this has ALWAYS been about shutting down the one-man-one-vote idea and returning the country to the (rather disgusting) people who THINK the country is "theirs".

I would refrain from the language used by 'pumpuiman' - but you never know..

BBC is calling Samak the 'winner' of the election (who is also rather disgusting while we're on the topic..could never understand why what 'should' be a leftist-party would have such a right-winger as leader - anyway - TIT)

Main point is this - if all the big int'l broadcasters say he won - can the elitists pull a rabbit out of the hat to deny this guy the right to govern? Are there other examples where a minority leader has such a clear lead that he is denied? Is that democratic??

thaigene2 - in reply to your first question - yes they can - undoubtedly.

In reply to your second question - Al Gore was deprived of the US precidency because of massive vote fraud connected to rigged voting machines and the connivance of George Bush's brother - Jeb - in the state of Florida - and also the unconstitutional actions of the supreme court - to cut a long story short.

Bulmerc, Please don't cut a long story short, please sir I beg of you tell us all of the vast right wing conspiracy in the U.S. in its entirity God knows that with all the tension brought on by the election in Thailand we could all use a good chuckle right about now. Now that you have made me aware that the supreme court is also involved in the vast right wing conspiracy, I really need to know the whole story so please regail us with your (Clintonesc) delusions

Well considering that Mugabe got up and said that now the US could not lecture anyone on democracy after the Florida debacle i would care a little if i were an American who believed in democracy. Then again US elections are known world wide now for not being up to international standards like in places such as Venzuela as they dont have a paper trail to verify them. Interestingly the supreme court when making their decision that Bush had won because there really wasnt time to count the votes also decided to rather unusually make it quite clear their decision was not a precedent. We could also go into the well documented volusia county addition of a handful of votes that suddenly resulted in a 60-70K Gore lead turning into a Bush lead but no doubt u get the point....

Mmmm if i were an american i would be pretty concerned at this kinda stuff and would be trying to put my own house in order before lecturing others on their democracies.

[yorkman]

The wider world really does not care about the uninformed equivalent of the bought off rice farmers voting in the USA for the Shrub

Back to the subject? The Thai elections........

[VegasVic]

Yes- well now that few doubt that the coup was less about Thaksin's own corruption, and more about rich/middleclass/elite fear of TRT or PPP or whomever to rally the masses, we're in a real pickle, no?

I still say this has ALWAYS been about shutting down the one-man-one-vote idea and returning the country to the (rather disgusting) people who THINK the country is "theirs".

I would refrain from the language used by 'pumpuiman' - but you never know..

BBC is calling Samak the 'winner' of the election (who is also rather disgusting while we're on the topic..could never understand why what 'should' be a leftist-party would have such a right-winger as leader - anyway - TIT)

Main point is this - if all the big int'l broadcasters say he won - can the elitists pull a rabbit out of the hat to deny this guy the right to govern? Are there other examples where a minority leader has such a clear lead that he is denied? Is that democratic??

thaigene2 - in reply to your first question - yes they can - undoubtedly.

In reply to your second question - Al Gore was deprived of the US precidency because of massive vote fraud connected to rigged voting machines and the connivance of George Bush's brother - Jeb - in the state of Florida - and also the unconstitutional actions of the supreme court - to cut a long story short.

Bulmerc, Please don't cut a long story short, please sir I beg of you tell us all of the vast right wing conspiracy in the U.S. in its entirity God knows that with all the tension brought on by the election in Thailand we could all use a good chuckle right about now. Now that you have made me aware that the supreme court is also involved in the vast right wing conspiracy, I really need to know the whole story so please regail us with your (Clintonesc) delusions

Well considering that Mugabe got up and said that now the US could not lecture anyone on democracy after the Florida debacle i would care a little if i were an American who believed in democracy. Then again US elections are known world wide now for not being up to international standards like in places such as Venzuela as they dont have a paper trail to verify them. Interestingly the supreme court when making their decision that Bush had won because there really wasnt time to count the votes also decided to rather unusually make it quite clear their decision was not a precedent. We could also go into the well documented volusia county addition of a handful of votes that suddenly resulted in a 60-70K Gore lead turning into a Bush lead but no doubt u get the point....

Mmmm if i were an american i would be pretty concerned at this kinda stuff and would be trying to put my own house in order before lecturing others on their democracies.

Hillary would be so proud of you hammered! I'll forward this on to her and perhaps she will have a present for your tree this season, lets see now where is that pre-K

[amarka]

hi...

i agree!

amarka

Let me get this straight in my head. Thaksin and his henchmen ran the country like their own business and ladeled off the cream. They became hated by the country for selling a telecommunications company to the Singaporians which lead to paranoid panic amongst the populace. Aformentioned people were ousted and ran for the hills with sacks of cash. A trip to the courts led to little more than musical chairs amongst the parties. A little over a year later Samak, whose every word smaks of arrogence, reaches the top with, along with a few vague policies, and vows to bring Thaksin back.

It seems the anti-vote buying people are as effective as the anti-elephants in Bangkok police.

Good to know that Chalerm and his non-cop killing children are close by.

Apparently you need to get out of BKK more often Mr. Shinawatra became hated not by the country but by the Thai elite in BKK, in most of the country (and by thai expats worldwide) he is still held in very high esteem. If the outcome of the election is as has been represented here then I would think that Thaksin will not only return, but may very well assume a position similiar to the one that Mr. Putin has ordained himself in Russia! Hopefully over the coming weeks the new government can get organized and unified (to whatever degree that is possible) and show the world that Thailand is a stable democracy and a safe and reliable place to do business and to invest in. If on the other hand there is bloodshed or a lot of public infighting between the new government factions, then that could have just the opposite effect and the thai economy and market could take a substantial downturn. Lets hope the former is the scenario that plays out, even though the Thaksin haters may not like it, it is clearly the best path for the Thai people!