Exit Poll Results Show PPP Wins

[John K]

my prevailing theme: a subconscious desire for blood lust. Get it right, Mister, or don't bother.

that's just ridiculous. my opinion is that YOU should get it right Jingthing and drop your subconscious but not so subtle displayed despisal for Thailand, Thai people and your thai surroundings. this attitude shows in each of the threads you opened; no matter how hard you are trying to disguise it.

Actually it could not have been subconscious because the subconscious only wants to do what is best. I would contribute it more to not thinking things out more than one or two steps as the real reason.

[YoungAndRice]

Actually, the popular vote was very close, Democrat vs. PPP, and the actual election might actually be much more corrupted than an opinion poll, if you get my drift. This was NOT a popular vote landslide for Samak. In the seats contest, of course, they did much better, but still not enough for a decisive victory.

And in the Thai system as it is, the PPP did not gain enough seats to assure Samak being PM. Sounds like a pretty good system to me, if it affords a possibility of a coalition to block this horribly divisive and violence provoking choice. The poll shows there is indeed much more to this than meets the eye. Thailand is indeed VERY divided.

I think every one who is saying that the majority of the people want Samsak are missing one major point. The total number of people voting was over 71,772,667 and the PPP only received 26,293,456 votes which is only 36.6% of the votes. So a poll of 2 to 1 saying they wanted Abhisit is in the realm of possibilities. It is easy to see that the majority of the thai people did NOT vote for the PPP. All of these smaller parties split the vote. Just like in the USA the 2 main parties are the Democrats and the Republicans. The Libertarian party splits the democrat vote so the republicans win.

People are not voting for a PM, they are voting for a Party. Approaching it as Samsak vs Abhisit seems silly. Also, isn't funny how the entire democrat party focus is around Abhisit. It is Abhisit, who is handsome and has no experience vs the entire PPP party. You might as well replace the words Democrat Party with Abhisit, as if he is going to represent every single Democrat province.

I have yet to see any convincing argument that the Isaan people's best choice is not PPP. Since everyone on this forum knows what is best for these people, perhaps you should just take away their right to vote and treat them like children. Perhaps Heng is onto something when he says wealthy people's votes should count as two, and maybe white skinned Thais and Chinese Thais should get triple votes.

Btw, you inital argument is false in that it assumes those who voted for a third party would have voted Democrat. I would say Libertarians in the USA steal just as many republicans as they do liberals since the party's economic platform mirrors the republicans and social platform mirrors the liberals.

Edited December 26, 2007 by YoungAndRice

[chownah]

Don't the people vote for two candidates(on average?)....thus giving the 70 million plus count....if that is divided by 2 then you get 35 million which is about how many people voted I think.

Summary: For the constituency they report the number of votes cast....for the proportionate they report the number of ballots cast.

I'm making this up so don't believe a word of it,

chownah

[YoungAndRice]

I don't understand the basis of all the posts like:

"It does not matter who is elected"

"Both parties are exactly the same"

"Oh, you think your vote really counts"

"Democratic elections are fake and people really don't have any power"

"Corruption will never end"

While all of these statements are true, we are always trying to move forward as a human race. There will always be racism, but black people now have equal rights in the USA. If they had given up as many of you seem to advocate, than that would not have happened.

There is room for Thailand's level of government corruption to decrease. I think PPP is corrupt, but I would much rather have a corrupt democratically elected government than a military dictatorship that removes puppet governments every five years. If that is the case, just go back to a Constitutional Monarchy - you'd get more done!

It is depressing how easily many of you are willing to bend your ethics if it fits your agenda. If PPP got 160 votes and decided to team up with 7 other parties to form a government, you'd be screaming murder, but if its your team than its OK??

Edited December 26, 2007 by YoungAndRice

[Jai Dee]

Three PPP MP candidates slapped with three yellow cards

The Election Commission (EC) called a meeting yesterday (December 25) to approve the election results and consider issuing yellow and red cards to candidates for members of the parliament. The meeting resolved to issue yellow cards to three candidates from the People Power party (PPP).

According to EC Secretary-General Sutthipol Thaweechaikarn (สุทธิพล ทวีชัยการ), the three MP candidates include Mr Boonlert Khrutkhunthod (บุญเลิศ ครุฑขุนทด), Linda Chardchai (ลินดา เชิดชัย), and Prasert Chanrunagthong (ประเสริฐ จันทรรวงทอง). All of them ran in the third constituency of Nakhon Ratchasima province.

The EC meeting voted four to one to arrange a new election in the constituency as they had enough evidences to believe that the three MP candidates were involved in vote buying.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 26 December 2007

[Jai Dee]

General Sonthi says PPP government will have no influence on him

The Deputy Prime Minister overseeing internal security, Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin, says the recent general election that has placed the People’s Power Party with a majority of parliamentary seats does not worry him.

The imminent take of the People’s Power Party has caused speculation on the future of General Sonthi who was the leader of the political reform that ousted the previous administration and disbanded the Thai Rak Thai, a majority of which are in the new party.

After being asked by members of the media on whether or not he was concerned about the election results, the Deputy Prime Minister simply answered “no”.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 26 December 2007

[blaze]

I don't understand the basis of all the posts like:

"It does not matter who is elected"

"Both parties are exactly the same"

"Oh, you think your vote really counts"

"Democratic elections are fake and people really don't have any power"

"Corruption will never end"

While all of these statements are true, we are always trying to move forward as a human race. There will always be racism, but black people now have equal rights in the USA. If they had given up as many of you seem to advocate, than that would not have happened.

There is room for Thailand's level of government corruption to decrease. I think PPP is corrupt, but I would much rather have a corrupt democratically elected government than a military dictatorship that removes puppet governments every five years. If that is the case, just go back to a Constitutional Monarchy - you'd get more done!

It is depressing how easily many of you are willing to bend your ethics if it fits your agenda. If PPP got 160 votes and decided to team up with 7 other parties to form a government, you'd be screaming murder, but if its your team than its OK??

Two very good posts YoungAndRice. Nice to see people deploying reason and intellect in a debate too often colored by an obsessive fascination with heros and villains. Especially villains. ( a fascination which I must confess, I am not immune to either).

Edited December 26, 2007 by blaze

[hammered]

Don't the people vote for two candidates(on average?)....thus giving the 70 million plus count....if that is divided by 2 then you get 35 million which is about how many people voted I think.

Summary: For the constituency they report the number of votes cast....for the proportionate they report the number of ballots cast.

I'm making this up so don't believe a word of it,

chownah

You are pretty much correct. I think a few bloggers have made the comment ignore the numbers in the constituency tatl as they are basically hard to analyse. The proportionate vote will give the exact tally of votes cast countrywide.

[sriracha john]

EC presses to consider 50 election fraud cases

Election Commission prepares to work on documents on elected candidates who are suspected of charting at the polls on Sunday. About 50 cases are expected to be considered at Wednesday's meeting. On Tuesday, three elected People Power party candidates in Nakhon Ratchasima were yellow-carded after they were caught with cash and a list of eligible voters.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=124695

[sriracha john]

I have noticed that Western media has been very critical of the military's interference in the democratic process when reporting on the elections.

Thanks for the link.

The Western media is not subject to the same censorship restrictions as the Thai media, imposed by the Junta hours after their takeover. The restrictions and penalties are even more severe in Martial law areas. I'm always observant about what I put on my Chiang Rai news site as i don't want it to be put on the internet Black list and lose my access to Thailand as it is hosted on a server outside the country. My blog on the other hand, I could care less about getting it black listed and i say what I want.

Always interesting hear the on-the-ground-like assessment views of Thai media and other issues from the other side of the world.

I would also like to welcome lukamar back to the forum after a sustained absence and relate how disappointing it was to miss out on his input on this thread, but then again, it's never too late add something:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=147765&hl=

Association Of Foreigners In Thailand, A group lobbying for better laws for Expats

Anyway, welcome back, lukamar.

Edited December 26, 2007 by sriracha john

[thai_narak]

there's one post that says "thai people have spoken" but hey i don't agree with this. i think only the north and northeastern have spoken as majority of PPP's votes are there but if you look at the central, bangkok, eastern, and south the people says otherwise. so what's the difference we can see in these regions? you know it...

I hear ya. Votes from households with more wealth should count more heavily.

shhh... actually, i don't like samak and thaksin. any party will do but not PPP.

[mbkudu]

go back to a Constitutional Monarchy

Thailand presently has a constitutional monarchy. Maybe you mean an absolute monarchy?

Edited December 26, 2007 by mbkudu

[lukamar]

Anyway, welcome back, lukamar.

I stopped in to see if you still had the same narrow view, the world according to SJ ...

I've been busy with another forum project and have not had much time to spend here, although I do drop into the Chiang rai forum often and keep in touch with my friends. I thought i should make an appearance before the end of the year lest you all run out to the bar and toast my demise..

It is reassuring that no one has wavered in their thinking and that Thaksin is still the Devil or God depending on what everyone thought a year ago...LOL

I'll check in again from time to time to tally the thumbs up and thumbs down, I know how important your views are to the running of the country..LOL

[sriracha john]

Anyway, welcome back, lukamar.

I stopped in to see if you still had the same narrow view, the world according to SJ ...

I've been busy with another forum project and have not had much time to spend here, although I do drop into the Chiang rai forum often and keep in touch with my friends. I thought i should make an appearance before the end of the year lest you all run out to the bar and toast my demise..

It is reassuring that no one has wavered in their thinking and that Thaksin is still the Devil or God depending on what everyone thought a year ago...LOL

I'll check in again from time to time to tally the thumbs up and thumbs down, I know how important your views are to the running of the country..LOL

Hopefully looking forward to your AOFT thread update.

[Plus]

There are quite a few burning issues the new government should deal with, urgently, in no particular order.

Foreign Business Act - what is the preferred solution of all those "smart" and "intellegent" poor voters? Are they even aware that it exists, mush less what it is all about? Does PPP itself have a position on this issue? Will anyone ever ask the voters what they think? Will anyone ever ask the MPs what they think? No.

Currency Bill - will change currency exchange regime, one possible outcome is using foreign reserves to pay off trillions of debts by FIDF, which itself bailed out big businesses after 1997. Will anyone asks either the voters of MPs? No.

Retail trade bill - lots have been said already. What's PPP position? No one knows.

Southern Seaboard - Rayong is overcrowded, there's a plan to set a new area and it's a no small thing. Mathaput Industrial Estate alone pumps out 10% of Thai GDP, the whole Rayong area generates probably close to 20-30%. Another project like this can possibly double the economy. So far there's local opposition in Nakhons Si Thammarat. What is PPP government going to do about this? Anyone out there in Isan feels empowered enough to say something on the matter? No one is listening anyway, that's for sure.

Power generation - what is PPPs long term solution? Are they going nuclear or is it firmly against the desires of their voters. Moot question - no one will ask the people anyway.

Suwarnabhumi airport - it needs extention immediately or they'll have to shift flights to Don Muang, or abandon their four fold tourism increase promise. Who out there in Isan has a clue?

Bangkok infrastructure - is PPP going to pump a lot of money very fast to get results in time for the next elections, or are they going to abandon Bangkok votes and let it take care of itself?

>>>>

These are real issues that will ultimately decide whether PPP government is successful or not, not the peanut size handouts, not the healthcare or free education promises. The answers to these questions also do not depend on who forms the coalition - both the Democrats and PPP will take business like approach that will produce very similar results. The difference is that Dems might let the public and the civil society have some input, PPP will just use House majority to steamroll over any opposition, for better or for worse.

That's how practical socialism works - the "smart" and "intellegent" live under the illusion that their votes matter, while the rich do their thing for their own pleasure.

When guys like Abramovich were getting rich during privatisation, every Russian got at least one stock to sell. How many Isanese got a chance to get PTT stocks here? None. They got one big finger from the party that loves them most. It all went to some Singaporean nominees, every million invested brought nearly ten million in returns. TRT - Thai rip Thais off. Perhaps little five percent tax on those gains through illegal privatisation would cover all the vote buying and populist policies forever but they won't tax themselves, will they? They have unfettered access to government coffers for that. Better yet, they started illegal lottery scheme to fund their bribery - let their beloved Isanese pay for their own handouts.

Yeah, somehow people here think that the elite is afraid of this kind of democracy. For them it's the best thing ever, forget the sliced bread.

[blaze]

go back to a Constitutional Monarchy

Thailand presently has a constitutional monarchy. Maybe you mean an absolute monarchy?

Better check the post again- you have attributed to me something that I never said.

[endure]

A number of posts have been deleted. The News Clippings forum is for serious discussion of serious issues. Keep your catfights for the playground.

[John K]

Well at any rate I guess we will be seeing a lot more of —> In posts In the coming months as they start to do whatever it is they do.

[sriracha john]

MP-Elects Accept Poll Panel's Ruling

An MP candidate in Buri Ram province asks the provincial poll panel to take action against a banned member of the dissolved Thai Rak Thai party for taking part in election activities.

Meanwhile a People Power Party's elected candidate given a yellow card insists he is ready to accept the Election Commission's ruling.

After the Election Commission issued yellow cards for three MP-elects for constituency 3 of Nakhon Ratchasima province on Tuesday, one of the candidates, Boonlert Krutkuntod, states he is ready to accept the poll panel's ruling and his team will run in the upcoming by-election.

A Pracharaj Party's candidate vying for constituency 3 of Buri Ram province Prasert Lertyaso visited the office of the provincial poll panel to present the evidence related to the vote-buying campaign of the People Power Party.

Prasert asked the provincial poll panel to investigate the three elected candidates from the People Power party for their possible violation of election laws.

He also asked for legal action against a banned member of the now dissolved Thai Rak Thai Party Newin Chidchob whose political rights have been suspended for five years. Prasert claims Newin took part in the election campaigns of the People Power Party.

Meanwhile, the Deputy Commissioner of the Region 4 Provincial Police Division, Police Major General Kawee Supanant reveals that 42 complaints of electoral fraud were filed after the December 23 election.

Meanwhile, the Leader of the Labor Party Suchin Tapplee said at a press conference that although none of the group's candidates were elected, he is ready to accept the election's result.

Suchin also expresses disapproval on selecting the People Power Party's leader Samak Sundaravej to become the new Prime Minister, citing that his background is not suitable to rule the country and the country may plunge into further chaos.

- Thailand Outlook

[Gravelrash]

there's one post that says "thai people have spoken" but hey i don't agree with this. i think only the north and northeastern have spoken as majority of PPP's votes are there but if you look at the central, bangkok, eastern, and south the people says otherwise. so what's the difference we can see in these regions? you know it...

I hear ya. Votes from households with more wealth should count more heavily.

shhh... actually, i don't like samak and thaksin. any party will do but not PPP.

Hmmm, perhaps you should start a petition for a new election, based on a serious case of sour grapes, no doubt there would be others in the minority who would support you.

[Gravelrash]

It appears some posters think that PPP/TRT are advancing democracy, representing poors interests, or trying to free them from feudal slavery.

Some people probably do think this but then again there are those of us who feel that whenever the people vote in a particular gov't and the gov't they vote in does in fact take power then this in and of itself advances democracy.....every time people vote and the gov't they elect takes power it advances democracy whether it is a good gov't or not. If everytime the people elect a gov't it is allowed to take power then eventually the people will see that they actually can be part of the governing process and they will take it more seriously and demand better and more democratic gov'ts......this is the process of building democracy....it starts with elected gov't's actually taking and wielding power. Unfortuately there are junta's overthrowing the gov't so often here that democracy has not advanced very far....for the last 70 years or so it has just been a struggle among the ruling elite and any counting of votes was just a formality....basically the same ruling elite has set back democracy once again through this military dictatorship which hopefully will become more low profile soon (don't be fooled into thinking that is is disappearing altogether....coup number 18 and counting). Toxin is certainly not a paragon of virtue but on the other hand he seemed to be operating outside the usual sphere of ruling elite.....at least with him calling a slightly different tune there was and still might be the possibilty of something different happening.....his "populist" plans might be viewed as buying votes but I think that a careful observor of the electorate in rural Thailand will see that these plans also gave the always overlooked rural population a sense of empowerment.....for the people to feel empowered is a good thing and in the long run is one of the necessary elements for nurturing a democracy.

chownah

Finally an insightful and inteligent post about the election, rather than the usual whine about "why didn't my favourite party (who I can't vote for anyway) get elected". I agree Democracy takes time, parties win and lose and refine policies to appeal to and benefit a wider spectrum of the population.

Anyone think before Taksin there was no vote buying? He no doubt did that but offerred something to the poor outside Bangkok. Perhaps the Democrats can look at this and why only Bangkok votes for them. Politics is about (sipposedly working for the people), and guess what, they want more than a couple of hundred baht to get their vote now, that is progress. All ther intelectual giants here can rubbish the folk of Issaan and the former Lanna Kingdom all you like, but now they are a permanent part of the equasion, and that is progress.

[sbk]

Gravelrash, suggest you peruse the results again before assuming only Bangkok votes for the Democrats.

Hyperbole is really not suitable --best to stick to facts.

[Tony Clifton]

Give it at least a month, until power is transfered, then, a few days until you see the same old TRT shenanigans.

Jakaprob Penkair was still babbling about a Suwarnabhumi province this evening on tv.

[Plus]

Perhaps the Democrats can look at this and why only Bangkok votes for them

According to the latest unofficial results MORE pople voted for Democrat overall policies than for PPP.

The often repeated "only Bangkok bla bla bla" is patently not true, please try to base your opinions on facts.

http://203.150.244.10/reports/eng/ - here's the link

Edited December 26, 2007 by Plus

[Abrak]

The Democrats can claim all the consolation prizes they like. The fact is that PPP did remarkably well given that their A team of politicians was banned from politics and that the CNS - hel_l bent on keeping Thaksin out of power - were running the show.

I wonder how they would have done if it had been a fair fight....

[valerian]

The Democrats can claim all the consolation prizes they like. The fact is that PPP did remarkably well given that their A team of politicians was banned from politics and that the CNS - hel_l bent on keeping Thaksin out of power - were running the show.

I wonder how they would have done if it had been a fair fight....

"Fair fights" & Elections. I thought they were contradictions.

[croftrobin]

More posts have been deleted. The News Clippings forum is for serious discussion of serious issues only

[Plus]

For months leading to the elections we haven't heard a single complain froom PPP about being unfairly treated, about the martial law - anything. In fact we had EC clearly telling Sonthi to back off as soon as Samak got the "secret plan" papers.

Since 2005 PPP/TRT has lost four million votes, Democrats gained six (on proportionate lists, not local MPs).

[Abrak]

For months leading to the elections we haven't heard a single complain froom PPP about being unfairly treated, about the martial law - anything. In fact we had EC clearly telling Sonthi to back off as soon as Samak got the "secret plan" papers.

Since 2005 PPP/TRT has lost four million votes, Democrats gained six (on proportionate lists, not local MPs).

It is remarkable isnt it? PPP won despite appearing ungovernable, having their best players banned with really nothing going for them.

If the Democrats cant win an election with the cards so heavily stacked in their favour you really have to wonder if they are ever going to get a chance to govern.

[hammered]

Seems Anfrels main concern with the recent election was electoral violations in the pre-election period or vote buying.

Anfrel, a regional network of civil society organisations, sent international observers to all eight zones, and said it would observe any by-elections organised in the coming weeks.

Despite new legislation, money politics remains pervasive, said Mr Magbual, adding that people were scared to report vote-buying to authorities because they feared for their safety and doubted anyone would be successfully prosecuted.

Sakool Zuesongdham, another Anfrel member, criticised the EC for half-heartedly handling complaints and accused police of maintaining a ''neutral gear'' attitude against voters' complaints.

Mr Sakool encouraged people paid bribes to file complaints within seven days. The EC should sincerely investigate the cases and give red or yellow cards not only to the elected, but also to non-elected bribe-givers.

He said some government officials, particularly village headmen, were not neutral. ''They continue to canvass for political parties and are even on polling station committees, where they can potentially influence voters,'' he said.

From the Post: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/26Dec2007_news11.php

Pretty much in line with anecdotal stuff I have witnessed myself, but good to see the main neutral election observation body for the recent election comment on the main problem with the recent election.