Exit Poll Results Show PPP Wins

[Jai Dee]

Pua Paendin to give clear political stance on January 17th

Pua Paendin Party Spokesman Watchiramont Kunakasemthanawat (วชิระมณฑ์ คุณะเกษมธนาวัฒน์) revealed that leading members of his party are awaiting certain details to be finalized. The party will hold a press conference on Thursday January 17th to announce its official political stance and whether or not it will join the People’s Power Party coalition.

The Party Spokesman also revealed that his party has asked authorities to investigate and take serious measures to insure the safety of MP candidates after an incident in Buriram province in which shots were fired into the home of a Pua Paendin MP. Mr. Watchiramont stated that such incidents should not occur as they only bog down public's faith in politics.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 15 January 2008

[Jai Dee]

PPP hoping to win by-election in Chai Nat

The People Power Party leader and former Bangkok Governor, Mr. Samak Sundaravej (สมัคร สุนทรเวช), will lead two his party's Member of Parliament (MP) candidates in Constituency 1 of Chai Nat province to campaign at various marketplaces prior to the January-20th by-election. Previously, the Election Commission (EC) issued red cards to two of the Chart Thai Party’s MP candidates representing Chai Nat’s Constituency 1.

At the People Power Party’s head office at the IFCT building today (January 15th), the party’s executives are holding talks after the EC gave yellow cards to all MP candidates in Constituency 1 of Phrae province. They are expected to discuss the preparation for the upcoming by-election.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 15 January 2008

[Jai Dee]

Puea Pan Din party to officially announce political stance after Jan 17

Spokesman of the Puea Pan Din party, Wachiramon Khunakasemthanawat (วชิระมณฑ์ คุณะเกษมธนาวัฒน์), says the party’s core figures and executives will announce whether it will join a coalition led by the People Power party (PPP) after January 17.

As for the party’s MP candidate who was threaten by gunfire, the spokesman says the incident is outrageous and calls on relevant government units to find those responsible for the gunfire as soon as possible.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 15 January 2008

[Jai Dee]

424 MP candidates have registered

Two Member of Parliament (MP) candidates who have been approved by the Election Commission (EC) has yet to show up at the Secretariat of the House of Representatives. Hence, 422 out of 424 MP candidates have registered already.

Out of the 422 MP candidates, 345 of them are constituency-based and the remaining 77 are from the proportional representation system.

The Secretariat of the House of Representatives will be opened for the MP candidates' registration until 8 PM today (January 15th).

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 15 January 2008

[Jai Dee]

Buri Ram hoping to hold free and fair by-election

The Buri Ram Governor, Mr. Suntad Jatuchai (สันทัด จัตุชัย), says police, military and administrative officials together with volunteers from various sectors are coordinating to ensure that the by-election in Constituency 1 of Buri Ram province will be held smoothly on January 17th. The officials and volunteers will also help monitor vote-buying and other illegitimate activities during this period. Earlier, the Election Commission (EC) issued a red card to one of the People Power Party's Member of Parliament (MP) candidates representing Buri Ram's Constituency 1.

However, no vote-buying activities have been reported in Buri Ram province yet. The provincial authority is also providing security to the EC officials in Buri Ram, as influential figures may impose threats to them. Governor Suntad however believes no chaotic events will take place during the by-election period, and he is also asking public members to help the officials in holding the by-election transparently.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 15 January 2008

[Jai Dee]

Supreme Court reviews Democrat MP candidate’s request for annulment of election

Today (January 15) at 10.00 hrs, the Supreme Court is scheduled to review a request for an annulment of the general election by MP candidate from the Democrat party, Chaiwat Sinsuwong (ไชยวัฒน์ สินสุวงศ์).

Apart from the annulment request, Mr Chaiwat also sues the Election Commission (EC), the People Power party (PPP), PPP leader Samak Sundaravej (สมัคร สุนทรเวช), and a MP candidate from the same party running in Constituency 3 of Buri Ram province.

Mr Chaiwat alleges that PPP is a nominee of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai party and therefore requests the court to void the general election on December 15, 16, and 23.

The Democrat MP candidate also calls on the court to prohibit EC from approving the election results and withdraw certificates issued to acting MPs from the People Power party.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 15 January 2008

[Jai Dee]

High Court to rule Friday on whether PPP a proxy

The Supreme Court has scheduled Friday to rule on a high profile case which can upset the victory of the People Power Party following the completion of the Tuesday's hearing.

The verdict is expected to have a crucial bearing on the convening of Parliament on Monday.

As plaintiff, Democrat candidate Chaiwat Sinsuwong has petitioned for the judicial review on four legal issues, including the validity of advance votes cast on December 15to16 and the status of the People Power as nominee and its leader Samak Sundaravej as proxy.

Under the election law, the balloting outcome might be cancelled if the winning party or its leader was found to have involved in the proxy race. The conviction could also lead to the litigation for party disbandment in the Constitution Court.

In the Tuesday's hearing, the high court completed the examination of evidence and ruled out the hearing of testimonies on grounds that the case involved the legal interpretations of relevant provisions.

It allowed disputed parties to submit additional arguments til Thursday.

Source: The Nation - 15 January 2008

[sriracha john]

Anyone giving any form of evidence against Yuth while still in Thailand would have to be totally insane or incredibly brave. That they stayed in Chaing Rai is even more dangerous. Maybe they can reappear with a changed story and then continue to lead a relatively normal life.

If this guy is so dangerous, why does the EC allow him to run for a political position, and why do the voting public give him even more power when they can withold it from him at the ballot box?

Like giving a madman a loaded gun in my book....

That is the nature of Thai politcs. There are many many dodgy characters with dubious backgrounds who can run and be elected and who will never probably even see the inside of a court house. Yuth is one of the more extreme of these to say the least. Lets see how long before witnesses start withdrawing or changing testimony and disappearing (one rumour already). It is just like the sotries we read so often of how a relative of a powerful person killed someone and then all the evidence and witnesses mysteriously are gone.

While worth pointing out little is likely to change. After all the powerful people are the ones running the country.

We have both now... missing AND withdrawing... guess nobody wants to end up like a Yongyuth refrigerator...

Complaint against PPP Deputy Leader is withdrawn

The Chart Thai Party candidate who lodged a complaint with the EC accusing First Deputy Leader of the People Power Party Yongyuth Tiyapairat of election fraud has withdrawn his complaint, which could have led to the PPP's dissolution. The withdrawal of the complaint triggered speculation that it could weaken the EC's vote-buying charge against Yongyuth. In the complaint lodged by Wijit Yordsuwan, a Chart Thai candidate in Chiang Rai, Yongyuth was accused of arranging for a group of tambon and village heads from Chiang Rai to be flown to Bangkok for a meeting. At the meeting, Yongyuth allegedly solicited their help in campaigning for PPP candidates in Chiang Rai. The case could have resulted in a red card for Yongyuth and the dissolution of the PPP, since Yongyuth is a key executive of the party. Mr Wijit withdrew the complaint late yesterday morning. However, Chiang Rai election director Amornpong Wichitakul insisted that the EC could continue its investigation against Yongyuth because it earlier resolved to receive the case. National EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said he had not yet received the request to withdraw the complaint. However, he said, a meeting of the five members of the EC would make a decision on how to deal with the withdrawal. A source said Wijit withdrew the complaint following the visit of Chart Thai Secretary-General Praphat Phothasuthon to Chiang Rai early this month.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/15Jan2008_news04.php

OR nobody wants to take the rap for what could very well be a botched frame-up.

If Yongyuth is going to either be in power or have influence over a huge amount of people in power, evidence and witnesses against his misdeeds are going to become very light very quickly. We are not talking about just some slightly dodgy potential MP here. We are talking about an extremely dangerous and extremely powerful (and also very arrogant) man with certain business interests that most would find abhorent but which also never see witnesses about. That is the nature of Thai politcs and the players in it. We could also talk about the machine gun attack he led on the Ayuthaya house but although that is an event beloved of the media it really doesnt show the level of abhorence this man actually achieves although I would be extremely surprised if even any foreign investigative journalist would risk a story on this guy let alone a local one.

To pursue the case they wanted against him which was probably a sting but real anyway imho the current lot needed an election where Yuths party didnt do so well. Now it is pretty much out of the question with the power pendulum swinging the other way. It is a shame that someone so odious will in all likelihood end up in a position of power again but that is for the Thai people to decide.

The fact that he is a disgusting individual will not exonerate those responsible for framing him- if it is found to be a frame-up (and not a sting)- and they know it. Yes he is an odious character- and yes he doesn't play by the rules- but the forces allied against him contain elements who also don't play by the rules- and if this case were to be pursued, ALL would be exposed- the truly guilty (in this instance) and the truly innocent (if only in this instance).

The EC played an interesting card: by stating that they would not rule on the video- (which they could have done, I think, without having to allow Y and his team to examine it)= but instead pushed the case to the courts- where Y's lawyers will be allowed to examine it for authenticity. And IF it is fake, then it would be wise of those pushing the claim against him to back off real quick.

I don't believe they did push it to the courts. They have turned it over to specially-appointed panel (several posts back), which, while headed by a former Constitutional Court judge, it still is under the authority of the EC and not the courts... yet.

Edited January 15, 2008 by sriracha john

[Jai Dee]

PPP to announce coalition government this weekend

The People Power Party is ready to unveil its coalition government by this weekend ahead of the Monday's convening of Parliamanet, party secretary general Surapong Suebwonglee said on Tuesday.

"As the convening of Parliament approaches, it is opportune to outline the formation of the coalition government and related political activities," he said.

Source: The Nation - 15 January 2008

[Jai Dee]

Ombudsmen back EC red card

The ombudsmen have backed the Election Commission’s decision to red-card Sunthorn Wilawan, winner in constituency 1 in Prachinburi province for Matchimathipataya party. Atchaporn Charuchinda, deputy secretary-general of the ombudsmen, revealed that there was reason to believe that electoral fraud had taken place in the case involving a red card for Mr Sunthorn by the Election Commission.

“The red-card was dealt out on the grounds that a subordinate of Mr Sunthorn’s was believed to have handed out cash to voters on election day,” he said. “After the election, his close aides then tried to “settle matters” with the Election Commission office in Prachinburi in a bid to clear Mr Sunthorn's name.”

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[sriracha john]

An interesting aspect... the EC wants to know WHY the complainant is requesting the case be dismissed, because it is, indeed, a serious development.

Is it fear of retribution?.... or is a desire to back out of a frame up?... personally, given the defendant's violent past, the former is a very real consideration... while the latter is much less so.

Election Commission to Deliberate on Request to Dismiss Yongyuth’s Case

The Election Commission is set to deliberate on reasons for a Chart Thai Party MP candidate's request to withdraw the complaint he filed against the victory of the People Power Party's First Deputy Leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat.

Election Commissioner Sumett Ubanisakorn says the EC has not received the official request from Wijit Yodsuwan, a Chart Thai Party MP candidate, to withdraw the complaint he filed against PPP Deputy Leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat.

Sumeth says the EC will have to review the reasons for the request to withdraw the complaint, which was previously made against Yongyuth, accusing him of committing election fraud.

A Chart Thai MP candidate in Chiang Rai's constituency 3 lodged a complaint against Yongyuth, accusing him of arranging for a group of tambon and village heads from Chiang Rai to be flown to Bangkok for a meeting. It was also claimed that Yongyuth allegedly solicited their help in campaigning for PPP candidates in Chiang Rai.

The poll panel has already conducted extensive investigation into the complaint.

Many analysts believe the withdrawal of the complaint could weaken the poll panel’s case against Yongyuth.

If Yongyuth is convicted of election fraud, the case could be forwarded to the Constitution Court. If the court ruled that Yongyuth’s wrongdoing was conducted on behalf of his party, it could face the same fate as the Thai Rak Thai in late 2007.

The Thai Rak Thai Party was dissolved by the Constitution Tribunal and its 111 executives banned from politics for five years because one of its deputy leader was found guilty of electoral fraud.

- Thailand Outlook

[sriracha john]

Ombudsmen back EC red card

The ombudsmen have backed the Election Commission’s decision to red-card Sunthorn Wilawan

More from the Bangkok Post here.

I'm presuming ..

Ombudsman = Council of State

it'd be nice if the various media outlets could agree on common nomenclature in their Thai/English translations...

eg. the above as well as

The Nation - AEC , Bangkok Post - ASC

[John K]

The old intimidate the witness trick does seem to have it’s problems this time around.

EC may not allow complaint withdrawn on the Chiang Rai case

The Election Commission will rule whether a complaint of electoral fraud in Chiang Rai could be withdrawn, EC member Sumeth Upanisakorn said on Tuesday.

"Nornally the courts would allow the cancellation of cases involving individual crimes but not those crimes against the state," he said.

Sumeth said the EC would factor in the report on the case from its investigative panel headed by former judge Suwit Theerapong before drawing any conclusion.

"The probe is almost complete with only one witness left to give statement," he said, hinting that the outcome of the probe should be ready within this week.

[blaze]

... nobody wants to take the rap for what could very well be a botched frame-up.

Take rap? How about a bullet in the head?

Yongyuth claims of "frame up" or "sting" are ridiculous. He didn't show up on Friday to watch it, he isn't going to "clear" his name the legal way. Intimidating witnesses is more effective, it started bearing fruit already.

Let's see how the military responds. For the sake of reconciliation they might want his case to be dropped and abandon people who put their lives at risk in order to build the case.

If that comes to light they'll have some serious credibility issues.

I wish I could believe every statement made by people involved in this game- Yongyuth's ex deputy being one (though had he made any statements while still serving Y, I expect he would have been regarded as a liar- now that he has switched teams- he somehow becomes the paragon of honesty)-

-he might be fleeing Yongyuth or he might be fleeing Yongyuth's enemies- Why? Because in the event of a court case, he might fear being exposed as having been bought off- and dangerous men have dangerous enemies).

The most telling statement is the one made by Mrs Sondri where she said she wanted the case pursued if only to find out why the kamnans showed up at the meeting in a government vehicle.

Though where she got that from, I don't know. It seems a bit hard to believe that someone as cunning as Yongyuth would so blatantly and stupidly jeopardize his and the parties political future.

Anfrel has demanded EC transparency in this case. It has been anything but. And will, regardless of the outcome leave a pall over the entire election. So much for reconciliation. I hope that ALL parties demand that this be seen through. Regardless of the consequences- because without law- as you, Plus, have been the first to remind us- there is little hope for good governance.

This is a very serious case. If Thailand is really concerned about vote-buying- or for that matter, reconciliation- now's the chance to prove it. And if he's found guilty- in a transparent process that leaves little doubt in any rational mind- I'll be the first to say- throw the book at 'im!

Edited January 15, 2008 by blaze

[John K]

I can see the Saturday headlines now.

“TRT dissolved for 5 years the second time in 7 months”

[hammered]

... nobody wants to take the rap for what could very well be a botched frame-up.

Take rap? How about a bullet in the head?

Yongyuth claims of "frame up" or "sting" are ridiculous. He didn't show up on Friday to watch it, he isn't going to "clear" his name the legal way. Intimidating witnesses is more effective, it started bearing fruit already.

Let's see how the military responds. For the sake of reconciliation they might want his case to be dropped and abandon people who put their lives at risk in order to build the case.

If that comes to light they'll have some serious credibility issues.

I wish I could believe every statement made by people involved in this game- Yongyuth's ex deputy being one (though had he made any statements while still serving Y, I expect he would have been regarded as a liar- now that he has switched teams- he somehow becomes the paragon of honesty)-

-he might be fleeing Yongyuth or he might be fleeing Yongyuth's enemies- Why? Because in the event of a court case, he might fear being exposed as having been bought off- and dangerous men have dangerous enemies).

The most telling statement is the one made by Mrs Sondri where she said she wanted the case pursued if only to find out why the kamnans showed up at the meeting in a government vehicle.

Though where she got that from, I don't know. It seems a bit hard to believe that someone as cunning as Yongyuth would so blatantly and stupidly jeopardize his and the parties political future.

Anfrel has demanded EC transparency in this case. It has been anything but. And will, regardless of the outcome leave a pall over the entire election. So much for reconciliation. I hope that ALL parties demand that this be seen through. Regardless of the consequences- because without law- as you, Plus, have been the first to remind us- there is little hope for good governance.

This is a very serious case. If Thailand is really concerned about vote-buying- or for that matter, reconciliation- now's the chance to prove it. And if he's found guilty- in a transparent process that leaves little doubt in any rational mind- I'll be the first to say- throw the book at 'im!

I agree that the case should go to completion. However, my opinion is that it will not but will be a casualty of deals, so truth will never be known (if it ever could be) And God knows what byzantine machinatins have gone on or are going on right now.

By the way, if Thailand were really concerned about vote buying Anfrel and P-Net probably wouldnt be so critical of the EC for failing to deal with vote buying.

[hammered]

I can see the Saturday headlines now.

“TRT dissolved for 5 years the second time in 7 months”

I'll go 180 on that and say that PPP will not be disolved. Im not actually sure the court on Friday can decide that anyway. I think if they were to rule PPP is a proxy a complainant could then take the PPP to the constitutional court for a diso hearing.

Right now it is hard to find too many supporters for a diso including people who supported the TRT one.

[blaze]

I can see the Saturday headlines now.

“TRT dissolved for 5 years the second time in 7 months”

I'll go 180 on that and say that PPP will not be disolved. Im not actually sure the court on Friday can decide that anyway. I think if they were to rule PPP is a proxy a complainant could then take the PPP to the constitutional court for a diso hearing.

Right now it is hard to find too many supporters for a diso including people who supported the TRT one.

I agree. I could not envision anyone taking the 'proxy' line seriously. Even the Thaksin DVDs- In the eyes of the international community- big deal. in a country with a tradition of very dirty politics- these two would indicate nothing more pitifully petty excuses for the junta to eviscerate its political enemies- nothing more. I doubt if many Thais familiar with their own less than spotless electoral history, would really think that these are sufficiently horrible to merit party disollution.

Vote buying however, instigated at the highest party levels could do the trick- but for reasons that are not clear to anyone, the EC is dragging its feet on this one (the Yongyuth case)- though it appears to have its heart in the right place. I agree hammered, at this juncture, it appears nobody wants to see the PPP dissolved- weakened- yes but not dissolved.

Edited January 15, 2008 by blaze

[John K]

I can see the Saturday headlines now.

“TRT dissolved for 5 years the second time in 7 months”

I'll go 180 on that and say that PPP will not be disolved. Im not actually sure the court on Friday can decide that anyway. I think if they were to rule PPP is a proxy a complainant could then take the PPP to the constitutional court for a diso hearing.

Right now it is hard to find too many supporters for a diso including people who supported the TRT one.

I agree. I could not envision anyone taking the 'proxy' line seriously. Even the Thaksin DVDs- In the eyes of the international community- big deal. in a country with a tradition of very dirty politics- these two would indicate nothing more pitifully petty excuses for the junta to eviscerate its political enemies- nothing more. I doubt if many Thais familiar with their own less than spotless electoral history, would really think that these are sufficiently horrible to merit party disollution.

Vote buying however, instigated at the highest party levels could do the trick- but for reasons that are not clear to anyone, the EC is dragging its feet on this one (the Yongyuth case)- though it appears to have its heart in the right place. I agree hammered, at this juncture, it appears nobody wants to see the PPP dissolved- weakened- yes but not dissolved.

The justice is blind thing does not look at fallout from any ruling. The PPP’s attitude about the law and it simply was not something for them spells out their motives. If the PPP goes down it is by their own hand. Sooner or later the bad boy politicians will figure it out, even if it takes them 5 or more years sitting on the sidelines.

If they can’t figure out something that simple, how the heck can they figure out something as complex as the various issues Thailand faces?

Another way to put it is you buy stolen goods knowing they were stolen or not, the police will confiscate the goods from you. Unfortunately if the PPP does turn out to be a proxy for the TRT, there are a lot of people in Isaan that will have their politician type goods taken from them.

[blaze]

I can see the Saturday headlines now.

“TRT dissolved for 5 years the second time in 7 months”

I'll go 180 on that and say that PPP will not be disolved. Im not actually sure the court on Friday can decide that anyway. I think if they were to rule PPP is a proxy a complainant could then take the PPP to the constitutional court for a diso hearing.

Right now it is hard to find too many supporters for a diso including people who supported the TRT one.

I agree. I could not envision anyone taking the 'proxy' line seriously. Even the Thaksin DVDs- In the eyes of the international community- big deal. in a country with a tradition of very dirty politics- these two would indicate nothing more pitifully petty excuses for the junta to eviscerate its political enemies- nothing more. I doubt if many Thais familiar with their own less than spotless electoral history, would really think that these are sufficiently horrible to merit party disollution.

Vote buying however, instigated at the highest party levels could do the trick- but for reasons that are not clear to anyone, the EC is dragging its feet on this one (the Yongyuth case)- though it appears to have its heart in the right place. I agree hammered, at this juncture, it appears nobody wants to see the PPP dissolved- weakened- yes but not dissolved.

The justice is blind thing does not look at fallout from any ruling. The PPP’s attitude about the law and it simply was not something for them spells out their motives. If the PPP goes down it is by their own hand. Sooner or later the bad boy politicians will figure it out, even if it takes them 5 or more years sitting on the sidelines.

If they can’t figure out something that simple, how the heck can they figure out something as complex as the various issues Thailand faces?

Another way to put it is you buy stolen goods knowing they were stolen or not, the police will confiscate the goods from you. Unfortunately if the PPP does turn out to be a proxy for the TRT, there are a lot of people in Isaan that will have their politician type goods taken from them.

In the first place blind justice is a stone statue. Seldom more. An ideal- (the blind aspect of Justice) is rarely taken seriously- or perhaps even desired, in Thailand- at best, social harmony comes before individual cases of justice. At worst, justice is guieded by judiciary obligations.

Re the bad boys (whoever we define them as being) having to 'figure it out'- I suspect they- and indeed all the major players in this little game- are much more educated in the machinations of Thai politics and justice than anyone of us on this forum can ever hope to be- we are the ones who are learning.

Edited January 15, 2008 by blaze

[John K]

I can see the Saturday headlines now.

“TRT dissolved for 5 years the second time in 7 months”

I'll go 180 on that and say that PPP will not be disolved. Im not actually sure the court on Friday can decide that anyway. I think if they were to rule PPP is a proxy a complainant could then take the PPP to the constitutional court for a diso hearing.

Right now it is hard to find too many supporters for a diso including people who supported the TRT one.

I agree. I could not envision anyone taking the 'proxy' line seriously. Even the Thaksin DVDs- In the eyes of the international community- big deal. in a country with a tradition of very dirty politics- these two would indicate nothing more pitifully petty excuses for the junta to eviscerate its political enemies- nothing more. I doubt if many Thais familiar with their own less than spotless electoral history, would really think that these are sufficiently horrible to merit party disollution.

Vote buying however, instigated at the highest party levels could do the trick- but for reasons that are not clear to anyone, the EC is dragging its feet on this one (the Yongyuth case)- though it appears to have its heart in the right place. I agree hammered, at this juncture, it appears nobody wants to see the PPP dissolved- weakened- yes but not dissolved.

The justice is blind thing does not look at fallout from any ruling. The PPP’s attitude about the law and it simply was not something for them spells out their motives. If the PPP goes down it is by their own hand. Sooner or later the bad boy politicians will figure it out, even if it takes them 5 or more years sitting on the sidelines.

If they can’t figure out something that simple, how the heck can they figure out something as complex as the various issues Thailand faces?

Another way to put it is you buy stolen goods knowing they were stolen or not, the police will confiscate the goods from you. Unfortunately if the PPP does turn out to be a proxy for the TRT, there are a lot of people in Isaan that will have their politician type goods taken from them.

In the first place blind justice is a stone statue. Seldom more. An ideal- (the blind aspect of Justice) is rarely taken seriously- or perhaps even desired, in Thailand- at best, social harmony comes before individual cases of justice. At worst, justice is guieded by judiciary obligations.

Re the bad boys (whoever we define them as being) having to 'figure it out'- I suspect they- and indeed all the major players in this little game- are much more educated in the machinations of Thai politics and justice than anyone of us on this forum can ever hope to be- we are the ones who are learning.

Perhaps but with the caliber of the rulings recently, I have to side with the face value of things and not the appraised value.

[blaze]

I can see the Saturday headlines now.

“TRT dissolved for 5 years the second time in 7 months”

I'll go 180 on that and say that PPP will not be disolved. Im not actually sure the court on Friday can decide that anyway. I think if they were to rule PPP is a proxy a complainant could then take the PPP to the constitutional court for a diso hearing.

Right now it is hard to find too many supporters for a diso including people who supported the TRT one.

I agree. I could not envision anyone taking the 'proxy' line seriously. Even the Thaksin DVDs- In the eyes of the international community- big deal. in a country with a tradition of very dirty politics- these two would indicate nothing more pitifully petty excuses for the junta to eviscerate its political enemies- nothing more. I doubt if many Thais familiar with their own less than spotless electoral history, would really think that these are sufficiently horrible to merit party disollution.

Vote buying however, instigated at the highest party levels could do the trick- but for reasons that are not clear to anyone, the EC is dragging its feet on this one (the Yongyuth case)- though it appears to have its heart in the right place. I agree hammered, at this juncture, it appears nobody wants to see the PPP dissolved- weakened- yes but not dissolved.

The justice is blind thing does not look at fallout from any ruling. The PPP’s attitude about the law and it simply was not something for them spells out their motives. If the PPP goes down it is by their own hand. Sooner or later the bad boy politicians will figure it out, even if it takes them 5 or more years sitting on the sidelines.

If they can’t figure out something that simple, how the heck can they figure out something as complex as the various issues Thailand faces?

Another way to put it is you buy stolen goods knowing they were stolen or not, the police will confiscate the goods from you. Unfortunately if the PPP does turn out to be a proxy for the TRT, there are a lot of people in Isaan that will have their politician type goods taken from them.

In the first place blind justice is a stone statue. Seldom more. An ideal- (the blind aspect of Justice) is rarely taken seriously- or perhaps even desired, in Thailand- at best, social harmony comes before individual cases of justice. At worst, justice is guieded by judiciary obligations.

Re the bad boys (whoever we define them as being) having to 'figure it out'- I suspect they- and indeed all the major players in this little game- are much more educated in the machinations of Thai politics and justice than anyone of us on this forum can ever hope to be- we are the ones who are learning.

Perhaps but with the caliber of the rulings recently, I have to side with the face value of things and not the appraised value.

sounds like you've appraised the rulings- and determined that the face value represents the true value- that's fine. And if the rulings determine that there is insufficient evidence to penalize PPP, then that too will have to be appraised... and taken at face value?

But to extend your metaphor a bit- there is a line in justice that applies around the world- justice must not only be done - but must be seen to be done. In other words- the face value must largely (and that's the operative word- "largely"- not universally) coincide with the appraised value.

And it's in that little adage where the whole thing could go south.

Edited January 15, 2008 by blaze

[Old Man River]

In what way stupid?

Like what they are doing with Yongyuth? It's silly.

According to EC there are two outcomes - the party gets dissolved or Yongyuth is dsiqualified and the next on PPP list takes over. Actually they prefer to endorse him now and left the courts deal with it if someone files a suit.

They are in the tight spot as Yongyuth won't go down easily. One witness (the one shown on TV?) has already disappeared, and PPP is demanding transfer of Special Branch police. They want 704 officers removed for showing bias.

>>>>

Who said earlier that anything is better than the junta - just waint until Yongyuth shoots his way into parlament or the likes of Chalerm take over minstry of justice (they offered him interior, though).

I got the impression the "stupid" label was probably more to do with the rules EC operates under rather than its efficiency of operation.But I stress it's not my view.I was quite taken aback by the vehemence with which the views were expressed.These were names that certainly you would know Plus if not everybody.I conclude there's some real frustration building up on the Dems side.

Not just the Demos. P-Net is livid. Currently, P-Net and the EC are in a verbal war which may spill over into the courts. They cannot understand how the EC allowed votes to be counted at the poll sites. Everyone knows this is how you allow vote buying to take place. It puts a great deal of pressure on people who take money to vote as they have been told. Yesterday P-Net officials presented proof of vote buying which it states the EC refuses to look at.

Anfrel were also critical of both local officials and the EC for doing little about vote buying. Interesting to see the usually respected P-Net actually presenting evidence.

P-Net were the ones that originally dug up the evidence that led to the April 2006 election being voided. They are also the ones who revealed the actions taken by the junta on the national referendum. They are apolitical as an organization (individuals have their own views) and are normally the first line of defense. ANFREL's home office is in Bangkok and they share ideals.

[John K]

BANGKOK (AFP) - Allies of ousted Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on Tuesday urged the Supreme Court to toss out a challenge to their victory in last month's general elections.

Thaksin loyalists in the People Power Party (PPP) won elections on December 23, but fell just shy of a majority in parliament.

A member of the rival Democrat Party challenged the election outcome, arguing to the court that the PPP was an illegal front for Thaksin, who was barred from politics after the military toppled his government.

The complaint also alleged that during their campaign, the PPP illegally distributed VCDs of Thaksin's speeches.

"We opposed all the accusations and asked the court to reject the legitimacy of the complaint," PPP lawyer Choosak Sirinin told reporters.

After a 40-minute hearing, the court said it would deliver its verdict on Friday. If the judges rule against the PPP, they could invalidate the election and order new polls, or disband the party.

The case is one of dozens of complaints against the PPP over the election. The legal challenges have stymied the party's efforts to build a coalition government, as smaller parties wait for the outcome of the cases.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080115/wl_as...rt_080115081223

[John K]

I can see the Saturday headlines now.

“TRT dissolved for 5 years the second time in 7 months”

I'll go 180 on that and say that PPP will not be disolved. Im not actually sure the court on Friday can decide that anyway. I think if they were to rule PPP is a proxy a complainant could then take the PPP to the constitutional court for a diso hearing.

Right now it is hard to find too many supporters for a diso including people who supported the TRT one.

I agree. I could not envision anyone taking the 'proxy' line seriously. Even the Thaksin DVDs- In the eyes of the international community- big deal. in a country with a tradition of very dirty politics- these two would indicate nothing more pitifully petty excuses for the junta to eviscerate its political enemies- nothing more. I doubt if many Thais familiar with their own less than spotless electoral history, would really think that these are sufficiently horrible to merit party disollution.

Vote buying however, instigated at the highest party levels could do the trick- but for reasons that are not clear to anyone, the EC is dragging its feet on this one (the Yongyuth case)- though it appears to have its heart in the right place. I agree hammered, at this juncture, it appears nobody wants to see the PPP dissolved- weakened- yes but not dissolved.

The justice is blind thing does not look at fallout from any ruling. The PPP’s attitude about the law and it simply was not something for them spells out their motives. If the PPP goes down it is by their own hand. Sooner or later the bad boy politicians will figure it out, even if it takes them 5 or more years sitting on the sidelines.

If they can’t figure out something that simple, how the heck can they figure out something as complex as the various issues Thailand faces?

Another way to put it is you buy stolen goods knowing they were stolen or not, the police will confiscate the goods from you. Unfortunately if the PPP does turn out to be a proxy for the TRT, there are a lot of people in Isaan that will have their politician type goods taken from them.

In the first place blind justice is a stone statue. Seldom more. An ideal- (the blind aspect of Justice) is rarely taken seriously- or perhaps even desired, in Thailand- at best, social harmony comes before individual cases of justice. At worst, justice is guieded by judiciary obligations.

Re the bad boys (whoever we define them as being) having to 'figure it out'- I suspect they- and indeed all the major players in this little game- are much more educated in the machinations of Thai politics and justice than anyone of us on this forum can ever hope to be- we are the ones who are learning.

Perhaps but with the caliber of the rulings recently, I have to side with the face value of things and not the appraised value.

sounds like you've appraised the rulings- and determined that the face value represents the true value- that's fine. And if the rulings determine that there is insufficient evidence to penalize PPP, then that too will have to be appraised... and taken at face value?

But to extend your metaphor a bit- there is a line in justice that applies around the world- justice must not only be done - but must be seen to be done. In other words- the face value must largely (and that's the operative word- "largely"- not universally) coincide with the appraised value.

And it's in that little adage where the whole thing could go south.

Blaze, if the court rules they are legitimate I will accept that ruling. However in the light of the TRT ruling, I hope it is explained in great detail to dispel any doubts.

[meemiathai]

Anyone giving any form of evidence against Yuth while still in Thailand would have to be totally insane or incredibly brave. That they stayed in Chaing Rai is even more dangerous. Maybe they can reappear with a changed story and then continue to lead a relatively normal life.

If this guy is so dangerous, why does the EC allow him to run for a political position, and why do the voting public give him even more power when they can withold it from him at the ballot box?

Like giving a madman a loaded gun in my book....

That is the nature of Thai politcs. There are many many dodgy characters with dubious backgrounds who can run and be elected and who will never probably even see the inside of a court house. Yuth is one of the more extreme of these to say the least. Lets see how long before witnesses start withdrawing or changing testimony and disappearing (one rumour already). It is just like the sotries we read so often of how a relative of a powerful person killed someone and then all the evidence and witnesses mysteriously are gone.

While worth pointing out little is likely to change. After all the powerful people are the ones running the country.

We have both now... missing AND withdrawing... guess nobody wants to end up like a Yongyuth refrigerator...

Complaint against PPP Deputy Leader is withdrawn

The Chart Thai Party candidate who lodged a complaint with the EC accusing First Deputy Leader of the People Power Party Yongyuth Tiyapairat of election fraud has withdrawn his complaint, which could have led to the PPP's dissolution. The withdrawal of the complaint triggered speculation that it could weaken the EC's vote-buying charge against Yongyuth. In the complaint lodged by Wijit Yordsuwan, a Chart Thai candidate in Chiang Rai, Yongyuth was accused of arranging for a group of tambon and village heads from Chiang Rai to be flown to Bangkok for a meeting. At the meeting, Yongyuth allegedly solicited their help in campaigning for PPP candidates in Chiang Rai. The case could have resulted in a red card for Yongyuth and the dissolution of the PPP, since Yongyuth is a key executive of the party. Mr Wijit withdrew the complaint late yesterday morning. However, Chiang Rai election director Amornpong Wichitakul insisted that the EC could continue its investigation against Yongyuth because it earlier resolved to receive the case. National EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said he had not yet received the request to withdraw the complaint. However, he said, a meeting of the five members of the EC would make a decision on how to deal with the withdrawal. A source said Wijit withdrew the complaint following the visit of Chart Thai Secretary-General Praphat Phothasuthon to Chiang Rai early this month.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/15Jan2008_news04.php

OR nobody wants to take the rap for what could very well be a botched frame-up.

If Yongyuth is going to either be in power or have influence over a huge amount of people in power, evidence and witnesses against his misdeeds are going to become very light very quickly. We are not talking about just some slightly dodgy potential MP here. We are talking about an extremely dangerous and extremely powerful (and also very arrogant) man with certain business interests that most would find abhorent but which also never see witnesses about. That is the nature of Thai politcs and the players in it. We could also talk about the machine gun attack he led on the Ayuthaya house but although that is an event beloved of the media it really doesnt show the level of abhorence this man actually achieves although I would be extremely surprised if even any foreign investigative journalist would risk a story on this guy let alone a local one.

To pursue the case they wanted against him which was probably a sting but real anyway imho the current lot needed an election where Yuths party didnt do so well. Now it is pretty much out of the question with the power pendulum swinging the other way. It is a shame that someone so odious will in all likelihood end up in a position of power again but that is for the Thai people to decide.

The fact that he is a disgusting individual will not exonerate those responsible for framing him- if it is found to be a frame-up (and not a sting)- and they know it. Yes he is an odious character- and yes he doesn't play by the rules- but the forces allied against him contain elements who also don't play by the rules- and if this case were to be pursued, ALL would be exposed- the truly guilty (in this instance) and the truly innocent (if only in this instance).

The EC played an interesting card: by stating that they would not rule on the video- (which they could have done, I think, without having to allow Y and his team to examine it)= but instead pushed the case to the courts- where Y's lawyers will be allowed to examine it for authenticity. And IF it is fake, then it would be wise of those pushing the claim against him to back off real quick.

You mean even the military is scared of this man? Was there really a VCD? Thaksin was powerful. So?

[sriracha john]

Which announcement will come out first on Friday?

The Supreme Court ruling or the PPP declaring a coalition... stay tuned...

People Power Party to announce coalition this Friday

BANGKOK - The People Power Party is set to announce the formation of a coalition government on Friday, four days prior to the opening of lower house of Parliament, PPP secretary-general Surapong Suebwonglee said Tuesday.

The PPP is largely made up of former MPs of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai party founded by deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Mr. Surapong told journalists here that his party and representatives of two smaller parties will jointly announce the formation of new coalition government on Friday.

Meanwhile, the Council of State endorsed the Election Commission (EC)'s decision on the disqualification of Sunthorn Wilavan, Matchima Thipataya Party's Prachinburi poll winner, and will decide the fate of another three winning candidates on Friday.

So far the seven red-carded candidates include four PPP contestants, two Chart Thai contenders and one Matchima Thipataya candidate.

The top legal advisory last week unanimously ruled in favour of the EC's decision to disqualify three PPP winning candidates in Buriram province.

The EC also endorsed seven more poll winners from three political parties, including three PPP elected candidates earlier given yellow cards.

As of Tuesday, 431 candidates out of a total of 480 candidates from the general election have been endorsed by the poll agency. Of the candidates still waiting to be endorsed, 39 are from People Power party, four from Puea Pandin, three from Chart Thai, two from Democrat and one from the Matchima Thipataya party.

EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said Monday he was confident that the agency could endorse more than 95 per cent of the elected candidates in time to convene the lower house of Parliament on January 22.

According to the Constitution, the first parliamentary session required at least 95 per cent of the 480 MPs, or 456 to convene or within 30 days from the general election.

The EC chairman said the agency has until January 17 to issue red and yellow cards to winning candidates suspected of election rigging.

In other developments, the Bangkok-based Supreme Court is scheduled to rule on Friday whether the PPP and its leader Samak Sundaravej were in fact acting as proxies of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai party, following a petition by Chaiwat Sinsuwong, a member of the Democrat Party.

Mr. Chaiwat petitioned the court to look into the case, reasoning that Mr Samak could not field any PPP candidates to contest in the December 23 general election since he admitted publicly that he was a proxy of the dissolved party.

- MCOT

==========================

and if it is PPP first, will the PPP have enough MP's with just the two??? small parties to claim a majority coalition?

[sriracha john]

Anyone giving any form of evidence against Yuth while still in Thailand would have to be totally insane or incredibly brave. That they stayed in Chaing Rai is even more dangerous. Maybe they can reappear with a changed story and then continue to lead a relatively normal life.

If this guy is so dangerous, why does the EC allow him to run for a political position, and why do the voting public give him even more power when they can withold it from him at the ballot box?

Like giving a madman a loaded gun in my book....

That is the nature of Thai politcs. There are many many dodgy characters with dubious backgrounds who can run and be elected and who will never probably even see the inside of a court house. Yuth is one of the more extreme of these to say the least. Lets see how long before witnesses start withdrawing or changing testimony and disappearing (one rumour already). It is just like the sotries we read so often of how a relative of a powerful person killed someone and then all the evidence and witnesses mysteriously are gone.

While worth pointing out little is likely to change. After all the powerful people are the ones running the country.

We have both now... missing AND withdrawing... guess nobody wants to end up like a Yongyuth refrigerator...

Complaint against PPP Deputy Leader is withdrawn

The Chart Thai Party candidate who lodged a complaint with the EC accusing First Deputy Leader of the People Power Party Yongyuth Tiyapairat of election fraud has withdrawn his complaint, which could have led to the PPP's dissolution. The withdrawal of the complaint triggered speculation that it could weaken the EC's vote-buying charge against Yongyuth. In the complaint lodged by Wijit Yordsuwan, a Chart Thai candidate in Chiang Rai, Yongyuth was accused of arranging for a group of tambon and village heads from Chiang Rai to be flown to Bangkok for a meeting. At the meeting, Yongyuth allegedly solicited their help in campaigning for PPP candidates in Chiang Rai. The case could have resulted in a red card for Yongyuth and the dissolution of the PPP, since Yongyuth is a key executive of the party. Mr Wijit withdrew the complaint late yesterday morning. However, Chiang Rai election director Amornpong Wichitakul insisted that the EC could continue its investigation against Yongyuth because it earlier resolved to receive the case. National EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said he had not yet received the request to withdraw the complaint. However, he said, a meeting of the five members of the EC would make a decision on how to deal with the withdrawal. A source said Wijit withdrew the complaint following the visit of Chart Thai Secretary-General Praphat Phothasuthon to Chiang Rai early this month.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/15Jan2008_news04.php

OR nobody wants to take the rap for what could very well be a botched frame-up.

If Yongyuth is going to either be in power or have influence over a huge amount of people in power, evidence and witnesses against his misdeeds are going to become very light very quickly. We are not talking about just some slightly dodgy potential MP here. We are talking about an extremely dangerous and extremely powerful (and also very arrogant) man with certain business interests that most would find abhorent but which also never see witnesses about. That is the nature of Thai politcs and the players in it. We could also talk about the machine gun attack he led on the Ayuthaya house but although that is an event beloved of the media it really doesnt show the level of abhorence this man actually achieves although I would be extremely surprised if even any foreign investigative journalist would risk a story on this guy let alone a local one.

To pursue the case they wanted against him which was probably a sting but real anyway imho the current lot needed an election where Yuths party didnt do so well. Now it is pretty much out of the question with the power pendulum swinging the other way. It is a shame that someone so odious will in all likelihood end up in a position of power again but that is for the Thai people to decide.

The fact that he is a disgusting individual will not exonerate those responsible for framing him- if it is found to be a frame-up (and not a sting)- and they know it. Yes he is an odious character- and yes he doesn't play by the rules- but the forces allied against him contain elements who also don't play by the rules- and if this case were to be pursued, ALL would be exposed- the truly guilty (in this instance) and the truly innocent (if only in this instance).

The EC played an interesting card: by stating that they would not rule on the video- (which they could have done, I think, without having to allow Y and his team to examine it)= but instead pushed the case to the courts- where Y's lawyers will be allowed to examine it for authenticity. And IF it is fake, then it would be wise of those pushing the claim against him to back off real quick.

You mean even the military is scared of this man? Was there really a VCD? Thaksin was powerful. So?

He was given the opportunity to see it last Friday, but passed on it.

Did he decide to show up and go watch it today?

Yongyuth Gets a Glimpse at Video Evidence

As their deadline approaches, members of the Election Commission continue to deliberate on suspected election fraud cases. Major developments are expected in one prominent case involving Yongyuth Thiyapairat, the Deputy Leader of the People Power Party. Yongyuth is being allowed to watch video footage of himself, allegedly caught on tape while buying votes.

The video was reportedly filmed while Yongyuth Thiyapairat was meeting with local canvassers from Chiang Rai province. The Deputy Leader of the People Power Party is scheduled to watch the video himself today, before he gives further testimony to the Election Commissin. This case is being watched closely as it could lead to the dissolution of the PPP.

- Thailand Outlook

[thaigene2]

And it can be argued coups undermine any chance of real bottom up development too by either resetting things so an established elite can resume power or as in this case turning an new possibly upstart elite into heroes. While everyone is distracted on choosing the best of the top down guys little room exisits for anyone thinking about or proposing stuff from the bottom up not to mention the message that a coup sends that only the rich and powerful stand a chance of competing.

Yes of course, but isn't that one of the reasons the military stage coups? Surely - aside from a Che Guevera style uprising - the military are pro-establishment, right? There would never be a bottom-up supported movement would there?

[sriracha john]

Apparently he DID go and watch them.... so hopefully, this now precludes any further questioning as to the very existence of video evidence.

ELECTORAL FRAUD CASE

Yongyuth dares EC to carry on

Wants 'clean name' despite complaint being withdrawn

People Power Party Deputy Leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat yesterday challenged the Election Commission to continue investigating him even though Chart Thai candidate Wichit Yodsuwan has withdrawn his complaint.

Wichit had claimed that Yongyuth committed fraud to sway votes in Chiang Rai as a party-list candidate for Zone 1.

Yongyuth said the EC should continue its probe because he wanted to set the record straight. "Regardless of whether I'm red- or yellow-carded, I don't want this matter to be grey. I knew about two CDs, but how come there are eight now? I want to see all the CDs," he said.

The politician said he suspected the video recording had been doctored in a bid to frame him.

EC secretary-general Suthiphon Thaveechaiygarn said the commission had ruled to have its inquiry panel, chaired by Suwit Theerapong, decide whether to drop the case, as per the EC's directive number 42.

EC member Sumeth Upanisakorn said yesterday the agency would have to rule on whether a complaint of electoral fraud in Chiang Rai could be withdrawn.

"Normally the court would allow the cancellation of a case involving an individual crime, but not a crime against the state," he said.

Sumeth said the EC would factor in the report on the case from its investigative panel headed by former judge Suwit Theerapong, before drawing any conclusion.

"The probe is almost complete, with only one witness left to give a statement," he said, hinting that the outcome should be ready this week.

Chart Thai candidate Wichit initiated the investigation by complaining that Yongyuth had committed fraud to sway votes in Chiang Rai as a party-list candidate for Zone 1. But Wichit abruptly cancelled his complaint on Monday as a goodwill gesture because Chart Thai is about to join the coalition alliance led by People Power. Chart Thai Deputy Leader Nikorn Chamnong said the party had no involvement in Wichit's actions to complain and then drop charges against Yongyuth.

"Wichit acted in a personal capacity and was not representing the party's stance."

He denied the party had colluded with the PPP to cover up the electoral fraud in exchange for joining the coalition.

Democrat Party Secretary-General Suthep Thaugsuban said the EC was obliged to complete the investigation into the fraud allegedly involving Yongyuth. An unjustified dropping of charges might make the five EC members liable to a claim of negligence, he said. "The failure to do the job could cause the EC members to serve time in jail." Regardless of whether the original complaint remains intact, the investigation had already uncovered sufficient evidence to suspect wrongdoing and the EC must wrap up the case, he said.

Another Democrat, Deputy Secretary-General Thaworn Senniam, called on the EC to look into Wichit's about-turn.

- The Nation

==============================

I'm not sure what Yongyuth's bewilderment is all about.... it was reported days ago that there were 8 video discs.

Any substantiation or specifics to his "doctored video" proclamation?

As for Wichit's stated reason for wishing to drop charges.... well, that sounds a bit weak, especially with the Party big-wigs indicating that it wasn't a part of it.

Edited January 15, 2008 by sriracha john