Buyer Beware

[mild7even]

An unfortunate experience, but good for learning...

Bought a web camera from IT City in Panthip Plaza yesterday and it didn't work with my computer (I am not a novice with computers). Brought it back today, as there is a sign that clearly says bring back defective equipment within seven days.

After around 20 minutes of several people working, they managed to get it working with their computer. But as I told them, it didn't work with my computer.

Well, they refused to give me my money back, and even refused to give me a store credit (I was ready to exchange for some RAM chips on the spot). Spoke to two supervisors in the store, and even one on the phone. All said no. And the third supervisor refused to give me a name and phone number of anybody else in the company in order to try and resolve the situation.

It was very embarrasing to be put in this situation, and I and my wife spent a total of 45 minutes in the store, the whole time feeling very much put on the spot. I am sorry if I embarrased any of the employees, as it was uncomfortable for all involved, though I did my best to inconspicuous.

Oh well. I'm out 2400 baht. But, it is a relatively inexpensive lesson to learn--could have been a big ticket item. I've also been on the market for a laptop recently and was browsing in that store. I guess the bottom line is that I paid the price to know never to shop there again.

I always feel leery about buying these kinds of things in Thailand due to the possibility of situations like this, though other stores (namely Siam TV and Lotus) have been very good about returns.

Anybody else with horror stories about returns? Or good experiences? The good ones are stores we should be buying from.

[Ulysses G.]

This sure sounds like a ripoff.

[lannarebirth]

An unfortunate experience, but good for learning...

Bought a web camera from IT City in Panthip Plaza yesterday and it didn't work with my computer (I am not a novice with computers). Brought it back today, as there is a sign that clearly says bring back defective equipment within seven days.

After around 20 minutes of several people working, they managed to get it working with their computer. But as I told them, it didn't work with my computer.

Well, they refused to give me my money back, and even refused to give me a store credit (I was ready to exchange for some RAM chips on the spot). Spoke to two supervisors in the store, and even one on the phone. All said no. And the third supervisor refused to give me a name and phone number of anybody else in the company in order to try and resolve the situation.

It was very embarrasing to be put in this situation, and I and my wife spent a total of 45 minutes in the store, the whole time feeling very much put on the spot. I am sorry if I embarrased any of the employees, as it was uncomfortable for all involved, though I did my best to inconspicuous.

Oh well. I'm out 2400 baht. But, it is a relatively inexpensive lesson to learn--could have been a big ticket item. I've also been on the market for a laptop recently and was browsing in that store. I guess the bottom line is that I paid the price to know never to shop there again.

I always feel leery about buying these kinds of things in Thailand due to the possibility of situations like this, though other stores (namely Siam TV and Lotus) have been very good about returns.

Anybody else with horror stories about returns? Or good experiences? The good ones are stores we should be buying from.

I had a very similar experience at the IT City at KSK. They refused to refund or replace a new but defective router which cost 4,200 baht. I had to call in my girlfriend on that one and that confrontation was not pretty. Anyhow, I got a replacwement and will not shop there again.

Here's a thought. Maybe in the presence of the store manager yoyu could offer a tech savvy employeee there 300 baht to get it running on your computer. Have the manager agree that if he cannot get it running you will get your money refunded in full.

Edited January 4, 2008 by lannarebirth

[mild7even]

I had a very similar experience at the IT City at KSK. They refused to refund or replace a new but defective router which cost 4,200 baht. I had to call in my girlfriend on that one and that confrontation was not pretty. Anyhow, I got a replacwement and will not shop there again.

Here's a thought. Maybe in the presence of the store manager yoyu could offer a tech savvy employeee there 300 baht to get it running on your computer. Have the manager agree that if he cannot get it running you will get your money refunded in full.

Or even better: offer your girlfriend 300 baht to confront the store manager.

But really, I'd rather not push the situation anymore. It is not a small amount of money for me, but it is not worth the stress that it has already caused. I'd rather spend the time constructively with my family, which I believe is worth more than the money. In that sense, this has been a good experience.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Thailand does have a 3 day no questions asked money-back rule. You just have to remind them of this. Probably a lot.

[elephantkungfu]

why don't you take in your computer and ask them to get it working on your computer?

i've shopped at 'it city' a few times, and always found them helpful. once i bought a webcam from a shop in robinsons. i couldn't get it working on my laptop. so i took both webcam and laptop into 'it city', since it was near where i used to live, and they got it working. for free.

[kash]

... and why exactly can't you run the webcam on your computer?

[el jefe]

I returned a computer accessory that I bought at IT City in KSK. They got it working on their computer but I said "I don't care. It doesn't work on my computer." It was a hassle and took about 20 minutes but they did eventually give me a cash refund. I haven't found IT City to be any worse about refunds than any other store in CM.

[mild7even]

Thailand does have a 3 day no questions asked money-back rule. You just have to remind them of this. Probably a lot.

I'd like to hear more about this... I definitely fit in the window, as I purchased it only the day before. I'm not guessing that this is documented some place official where I can get to it easily.

As for why it doesn't work with my computer... well, if I knew that, I might be able to fix it myself. My only clue that I found during some research is that some web cams simply don't work with some video chipsets. This may be the source of the problem.

However, since this experience has kind of soured me on dealing with drivers and chipsets and all that, and I was close to buying a new laptop anyway, I have decided to get a new laptop with a webcam built in. I can avoid all the driver issues. And it really means that I don't want the camera and don't really care to bring in my computer to get it working.

I'm not saying that I was definitely going to buy a computer from IT City, but after this experience, I am saying that I definitely won't be buying from them.

It is good that others have been able to get refunds. As for me, still, with 45 minutes in the store, and speaking to three supervisors, and even being willing to exchange for a store credit, and even saying please very nicely, I had no luck.

Maybe I was being too nice? Not making a scene and not trying to embarrass anyone? I have usually found that to be the most effective tactic in Thailand.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Dunno where it might be documented. Last year I got a mobile phone in Airport Plaza which didn't work - we went to take it back and they said I had to return it to Sony. The Dan Sai Wife had seen a thing on a TV program that outlined consumer rights in Thailand and dug in her heals until they relented.

[tigerbeer]

you can't be nice in this situation. if they are not willing to budge, then you should also not be willing to budge. involve threats about confronting the consumer right protection agency, some lawyers and tell them that you are totally serious and you know your rights. put words into their mouths. tell them the person who sold it to you said that there is a no question 3 day return policy. try putting them in a spot instead. my wife is wonderful with words. threats comes out so musically beautiful from her to my benefit

its the same as IT CIty as anywhere else here in thailand. no different. best of all, clear all doubts before you even buy the product on what kind of return policy do they have in case something does not work. tell them you would return the product should it not work with you.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Dunno where it might be documented. Last year I got a mobile phone in Airport Plaza which didn't work - we went to take it back and they said I had to return it to Sony. The Dan Sai Wife had seen a thing on a TV program that outlined consumer rights in Thailand and dug in her heals until they relented.

Good on her.

[p1p]

Simple answer in these situations. Call the tourist police. They will generally make the store see the light.

[wjmark]

However, since this experience has kind of soured me on dealing with drivers and chipsets and all that, and I was close to buying a new laptop anyway, I have decided to get a new laptop with a webcam built in. I can avoid all the driver issues. And it really means that I don't want the camera and don't really care to bring in my computer to get it working.

Not an absolute solution, I am afraid. Drivers must be installed even on a notebook with a built-in wecam.

Usually, it is easier, but there still can be driver issues - my GF's Asus is having a hard time recognizing the webcam...

good luck

[jackr]

Simple answer in these situations. Call the tourist police. They will generally make the store see the light.

Beat me to it ole mate.

Yep, go back there looking smart - no shorts and flip flops - and point out that they have a 7-day returns policy in a very calm manner. If they don't budge, say ok I am calling the police. Dial tourist police on 1155 or 053248974 and sit tight. I believe they wouldn't want the cops in there making their business look suspect.

/ps - don't let them off. While it may not seem worth the immediate stress, bad karma may bite one on the bottom at a later stage :D//

Edited January 5, 2008 by jackr

[mild7even]

Usually, it is easier, but there still can be driver issues - my GF's Asus is having a hard time recognizing the webcam...

good luck

Bummer... if it is the Asus EEE you have, the webcam is by default disabled in the BIOS. You have to enable it and then it should be fine. This is one I am looking at to replace the current laptop and have been doing research.

[elephantkungfu]

Thailand does have a 3 day no questions asked money-back rule.

are you sure about that?

refunds and returns seem to be a western concept. i say this because i was teaching shopping vocab the other day, and the students had a hard time understanding "can i have a refund?". my co-teacher ended up explaining it as something that happens in european countries. i don't think its that common over here. probably only in western chains such as tesco and carrefour.

so if this three day rule does exist, where is it valid? how about in 711? gaat luang? walking street?

[Tung_Thaid]

Depends how far you want to "push" with IT CITY.

Seems their Central Airport Plaza office doesnt want to know you.

Check on the company's returns policy ? There is no mention of it on their retail website.

IT CITY Head Office:

IT CITY Public Company Limited

604/3 Pantip Plaza Bldg., 5th- 6th Fl., Petchburi Road, Tanon Petchburi, Rajthevee, Bangkok 10400 Thailand

Tel : 0-2656-5030-45

Fax : 0-2656-5049

If you want to address some correspondence to the Board, their details at the company's corporate website:

http://www.itcity.co.th/itcitycorp/Bord-of-director.asp

Thailand's Consumer Protection Act (1979) does not go into dealing with such mundane matters:

http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/consol_act/cpa1979246/

[Greenside]

I bought and returned a bluetooth mouse to IT City in Pantip about six months ago without a problem. It was DOA and they couldn't make it function so although I was prepared for some kind of resistance I guess they felt they had nowhere to go. Carrefour have been easy to deal with on the replacement of an electronic dictionary too. However.....

Take care buying from Amorn at Carrefour and Icon Plaza. It's a great shop but I've found them to be completely inflexible even just a few minutes after having bought the wrong size batteries. The girl just pointed to the large "No Returns or Refunds" sign by the till and stonewalled me. It was only about 120 baht but I just wanted a different size, not a refund and given the small amount ended up keeping them for a rainy day. Went somewhere else for the replacements on principle.

[wjmark]

Take care buying from Amorn at Carrefour and Icon Plaza. It's a great shop but I've found them to be completely inflexible even just a few minutes after having bought the wrong size batteries. The girl just pointed to the large "No Returns or Refunds" sign by the till and stonewalled me. It was only about 120 baht but I just wanted a different size, not a refund and given the small amount ended up keeping them for a rainy day. Went somewhere else for the replacements on principle.

Well........ we all know your problem - you are too nice!!!

I remember getting a refund from Amorn quite easily. I was persistant, but smiling. BUT PERSISTANT!!

Can't remember what I returned though...

[Ta22]

i recall buying one of those high end super expensive webcam .. which cost me like 90 sgd which is = about 2000 baht

die on me like on the first month ..

then i buy those cheap 400 - 500 baht webcam .. better picture . clear also .. and had last me ever since .. all my friends use the same brand is OKER . cheap china webcam .. work on every cam i seem ..

and that is funny .

if the webcam is spoil how the guys got it to work on his COM ?

so the webcam is not spoil .. maybe is your COM that is spoil ..

is your hardware problem .

when it not working . it would not work any where .

plus .. usually is a instaltion problem instead of a the webcam problem ..

anyway would be great if you give us the BRAND of the webcam ..

so maybe we can advice ot help you make it work for you .

2400 is not CHEAP is very expeensive ,

you can get a great webcam for 20% of that price

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Thailand does have a 3 day no questions asked money-back rule.

are you sure about that?

refunds and returns seem to be a western concept. i say this because i was teaching shopping vocab the other day, and the students had a hard time understanding "can i have a refund?". my co-teacher ended up explaining it as something that happens in european countries. i don't think its that common over here. probably only in western chains such as tesco and carrefour.

so if this three day rule does exist, where is it valid? how about in 711? gaat luang? walking street?

You must know that you are living in a country where the letter of the law is not always applied.

[elephantkungfu]

You must know that you are living in a country where the letter of the law is not always applied.

yeah, thats exactly my point.

this guy tried to return an item on the grounds that it was faulty. they got it working in the shop, but he still demanded a refund/exchange. i can see from their point of view why he didn't get either. i don't think its bad customer service. they just acted as most thai shops would do. i'm not saying that wouldn't annoy me if i was him.... that's just shopping in thailand. like i said before... if he took in his computer and asked them to get it working with that, it'd be a different matter...

[Greenside]

Take care buying from Amorn at Carrefour and Icon Plaza. It's a great shop but I've found them to be completely inflexible even just a few minutes after having bought the wrong size batteries. The girl just pointed to the large "No Returns or Refunds" sign by the till and stonewalled me. It was only about 120 baht but I just wanted a different size, not a refund and given the small amount ended up keeping them for a rainy day. Went somewhere else for the replacements on principle.

Well........ we all know your problem - you are too nice!!!

I'll call you next time I have a problem

PS Need a set of D cells? Only 100 bht to you......

Edited January 6, 2008 by Greenside

[mild7even]

this guy tried to return an item on the grounds that it was faulty. they got it working in the shop, but he still demanded a refund/exchange. i can see from their point of view why he didn't get either. i don't think its bad customer service. they just acted as most thai shops would do. i'm not saying that wouldn't annoy me if i was him.... that's just shopping in thailand. like i said before... if he took in his computer and asked them to get it working with that, it'd be a different matter...

But it is bad customer service. A customer walked away so dissatisfied that he will never return, and is willing to tell others about the experience. As far as the retailer is concerned, that should be the bottom line. But, you may be right that they acted in the way that most Thai shops would. What you are saying is that most Thai shops have bad customer service.

I walked in to a used book shop in Chiang Mai several years ago and was told that I could return the book after reading it for 50% of the purchase price. I was skeptical. I figured I would try to return it and the clerk would give it a once over, say that I had abused the book, and offer less than the promised 50%. I took a chance anyway, since it is small money and wanted the book. Imagine my surprise when I returned it (though I hadn't abused it, it definitely was more dog-eared than when I had bought it) the clerk looked at the purchase price and immediately handed over the money. Over the years my experience has been exactly the same, and I've been a loyal customer of Gecko Books since then. I wouldn't go to another book store in this town.

Yes, these are different situations, but the parallels are there. As I learned when I worked in retail, it is very difficult to earn a customer for life--and very easy to lose a customer for life.

The stores here are free to make whatever policies they wish, and comply with the law to whatever extent they wish, and they can refuse to refund my money. I'm not going to pretend to tell them how to conduct their business--I'm sure they are making a nice profit nickle and diming people to death.

But, I won't ever buy anything from IT City ever again.

[Ulysses G.]

I walked in to a used book shop in Chiang Mai several years ago and was told that I could return the book after reading it for 50% of the purchase price. I was skeptical. I figured I would try to return it and the clerk would give it a once over, say that I had abused the book, and offer less than the promised 50%. I took a chance anyway, since it is small money and wanted the book. Imagine my surprise when I returned it (though I hadn't abused it, it definitely was more dog-eared than when I had bought it) the clerk looked at the purchase price and immediately handed over the money. Over the years my experience has been exactly the same, and I've been a loyal customer of Gecko Books since then. I wouldn't go to another book store in this town.

Thanks for mentioning us so nicely.

Gecko Books does our best to buy all of our used books back for 50% of the purchase price as long as they have not lost too much value. Our signs say that we will honor this policy for one month as long as the books is in simular condition, but the truth is that we usually will do it for 6 months to a year depending on how much the book loses in value over time.

For example, a newly published John Grisham is hard to come by and we might sell it for around 200 baht, but after 6 months, we are usually swamped with them and the going price is 160 baht a year and then later it might be 100 baht. If someone brought back one that they had purchased 6 months before we might give them half of the current price instead of what they bought it for.

There are other policies that some people might not agree with that I find neccesary to run my business. We have a BIG problem with tourists buying guidebooks and going to a Xerox shop, copying it and bringing them back with broken spines and saying that they've changed their minds and demanding their money back. I will hardly ever refund their money, but if they seem convincing enough, I allow them to exchange it for another book, which is the same thing I sometimes do if people bring a book back in a reasonable amount of time and have a good reason for changing their minds. Otherwise, I get too many people who buy something and then find a better bargain in another store and want their money returned so they can buy it there. In my opinion, if they are that concerned about the price of a book, they need to look around at all the stores first and then purchase the cheapest one, not take mine away where no one else has a possibility of buying it until they can find a cheaper copy.

You can't please everyone, but I try to be as fair as possible and I find that most people try to be fair back.

[uptheos]

You can't please everyone, but I try to be as fair as possible and I find that most people try to be fair back.

I've been buying books at Gecko ever since they opened and I have never had cause for complaint, either buying or selling.

[bob4you]

Simple answer in these situations. Call the tourist police. They will generally make the store see the light.

I also invoke "tourist police" I had a situation with a independent shop in Tuk Com Pattaya, bought a USB device that the salesman guaranteed would work with my computer and XP, I took it home and had no luck getting it to work. I took my computer and the device back, he spent 45 minutes trying to get it to work on my computer but couldn't, then put it in his computer and it worked fine. Refused to give me a refund. "product not work, your computer is problem" I took out my camera and took his picture. He called the owner from another booth who came over and couldn't get it to work either. Owner left, refusing refund also.

I let salesman know that I was calling tourist police (by now other shop owners were watching who would win) I showed him his picture and managers and said tell manager police were coming. He went away, came back in 5 minutes with my refund.

[onnut]

Simple answer in these situations. Call the tourist police. They will generally make the store see the light.

I also invoke "tourist police" I had a situation with a independent shop in Tuk Com Pattaya, bought a USB device that the salesman guaranteed would work with my computer and XP, I took it home and had no luck getting it to work. I took my computer and the device back, he spent 45 minutes trying to get it to work on my computer but couldn't, then put it in his computer and it worked fine. Refused to give me a refund. "product not work, your computer is problem" I took out my camera and took his picture. He called the owner from another booth who came over and couldn't get it to work either. Owner left, refusing refund also.

I let salesman know that I was calling tourist police (by now other shop owners were watching who would win) I showed him his picture and managers and said tell manager police were coming. He went away, came back in 5 minutes with my refund.

I had a great expieriance at Tuk Com Pattaya. I brought a new mobile phone 22k it cost and when I got back to Bangkok I found it dd not work. a right pain in the $%@&. anyway it was two weeks before I could get back to Pattaya and when I did the lady recognised me, when I showed her the phone I was expecting to be told to bugger off, but he tried to fix the problem first and when she could not she just handed me a brand new box with phone in. thats great, I have not had any problems since with the phone. and I have since brought my wife a phone and a camera from her stall.

I did have a funny expieiance at Paragon shopping center 6 months ago though. I brough a new computer and was told I would have to buy the operating system from another shop in the center and when I got it all home, the label said only for distribution with new computers. I had to pay 5k for something that should of come with the computer. I was nt happy, but what can you do? i will never shop there again for electronics.

[cnxmike]

Concerning IT City: A few months ago I intented to buy a cableless mouse at their branch in the airport plaza. I brought this mouse to the cashier and at very moment after he had scanned the price tag, I noticed it wasn't cableless. They didn't take the mouse back. They said only if I would spend the same amount of money for some other items, they would take it back.

Customer service and Thailand: This twain shall never meet.

Edited January 13, 2008 by cnxmike