Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[Prakanong]

It's just that every day I see tourists doing stupid, terribly insulting things here in Thailand without reproach.

oh yes, and murder is an appropriate punishment is it? people do stupid things all over the world but they do not deserve to die for them.

A society sick at the core.

agreed. the longer i stay here the more i see and the more it disgusts me.

At least you still find it disgusting.

Some of the posters on this forum seem to have reached "Acceptance" of this type of behaviour with the worst of them condoning or excusing it - their moral compass, if they ever had one, is truly lost in their efforts to toady up to Thai's and Thai society believing they are somehow part of it or even accepted and which they never will be.

[kat]

It's their egos. Since they are emotionally invested, they also become invested in maintaining the charade of normalcy, that everything is just like home or better.

[jellymeister]

looks like the cat is out of the bag in the international press.....will be interesting to see how the Thai spin doctors handle this one.....

Canadian man killed by Thai police officer

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Jan 06, 2008 10:07 PM

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

BANGKOK, Thailand – A Thai police officer fatally shot a Canadian man and wounded his pregnant companion during a scuffle outside a bar in northern Thailand, authorities said Monday.

The officer told investigators the shooting was an accident but he was charged with premeditated murder, said police Col. Sombat Panya of Pai district in northern Mae Hong Son.

John Leo Del Pinto, 25, died early Sunday of two gunshot wounds – one to the face and one to the torso – and his partner, Carly Reisig, also of Canada, was in hospital with a bullet wound in her body, Sombat said.

Their hometowns were not immediately known, Sombat said.

The couple, who had rented a home in the town Mae Hong Son, were drinking at a bar in Pai and began arguing, Sombat said, citing witnesses.

Outside the bar, their argument turned physical and when a police officer tried to intervene the couple attacked him, Sombat said.

The officer, Sgt. Uthai Dechawiwat, told investigators Del Pinto tried to grab his pistol and the gun "accidentally went off" three times, Sombat said.

However, Uthai was charged with premeditated murder for Del Pinto's death and with "intent to kill" in connection with Reisig, Sombat said. Uthai was released on bail.

The couple had rented a home in Mae Hong Son, on the border with Burma, for several years but took regular trips in and out of Thailand to extend short-term tourist visas, Sombat said.

[sbk]

Actually Jellymeister, if you had read the entire thread you would have seen that it is now a verified news story with a legitimate source as news, and as such, has been moved to the News Clippings forum.

[bino]

The officer told investigators the shooting was an accident

3 shots, 2 people... is an accident??

Pulled the trigger twice on the guy... is an accident??

Re-aiming at the girlfriend and shooting her... is an accident??

I don't think so.

[Jai Dee]

Canadian tourist is shot dead

Policeman faces murder charge after scuffle with drunk couple

A Canadian tourist was shot dead and his wife wounded early yesterday morning near a pub in Mae Hong Son province after a scuffle with a policeman.

Pol Sgt-Major Uthai Dechawiwat claimed shots were fired accidentally after the foreign couple tried to snatch his pistol from him.

The 37-year-old policeman, who was released on bail after being charged with murder and manslaughter, said he had struggled to get his service pistol back from John Leo Del Pinto and his wife Carly Reisig.

He said he had used the gun to threaten them when he was down on the ground after the couple beat him up.

Del Pinto, 25, took a shot in the mouth, from which the bullet travelled through his shoulder, and another shot on the left side of his torso, while Reisig, 24, was shot on the left side of her torso.

Uthai initially fled but give himself up to Pai police not long afterwards.

Quoting witnesses, case investigator Pol Lt-Colonel Sombat Panya said the couple had been drinking in a local pub called Ting Tong. They became involved in a drunken brawl after Del Pinto, who recently arrived in Thailand, found out that Reisig had become pregnant with a Thai man known as Fuen.

The couple continued arguing after they left the pub when Uthai arrived at the scene, near a bridge, on personal business. Uthai approached them and asked them to be calm but both foreigners turned to attack him.

The officer said Uthai was beaten to the ground by the couple. After managing to get up, Uthai pointed his service pistol to threaten away both foreigners, but Del Pinto tried to snatch the pistol from him. After a scuffle, shots were fired and the couple went down.

Del Pinto died at the scene at about 2am and Reisig was sent to a hospital in Chaing Mai, where she is in a safe condition.

Sombat said he had not interviewed Reisig about what happened and no offence had yet been filed against her.

Source: The Nation - 07 January 2008

[Wrong Turn]

Nice !

RIP to another victim of useless violence .

I wonder if we will see something on the news ,

it should be .

About 2 years ago a British couple was shot to death by a police officer. Kanchanaburi?

Is this cop doing prison time?

(Sorry if this is too off-topic.)

[mellow1]

Already, we've determined that an execution took place. I'd guess some beligerent tourists insulted the wrong Thai guy. He may or may not have been a cop, doesn't much matter now does it. Lesson learned: drink lots of water, walk slowly and respect the local population. Funny, works just about everywhere.

Your quite right, I guess that justifies the killing. Case dismissed!

[Scott]

Sadly, it sounds like this policeman is poorly trained in how to handle a situation such as this--and probably any others.

My condolences to the family and friends of the victims.

My condolences also to the truth which, it sounds like, is very likely to suffer greatly,

[BPayette]

Absolutely......Lost Dosh...and lots of it....

Been and worked in most of the slightly dodgy places mentioned below ..plus fun jobbies in Nigeria ,Sierra Leone,Cambodia,Algeria,Iran.....and somehow I dont see Alf and Ruby plus bairns signing up with Tommy Cookes for their holli jollies in any of the following Beach Resorts ....They were all quite NICE places at one time before the lunatics took over the Ass-sigh-lems.

Rinrada, what language are you using here?

[Galong]

Why is it that we never hear about a one-on-one fight with Thais? It's always a gang-on-one or a gun. Isn't Muay Thai supposed to be a fighting art? The degree of cowardice in many Thai men is truly Amazing...

I don't believe the cop's story... but I wouldn't bet against him getting off scott free. This is, after all, A Mess in Thailand

[LiveSteam]

"Uthai initially fled"

Cops here AND their bosses just have to be the worst liars... Amateurs.

After the cop a killed the one guy and almost killed the girl he had to run away so he could find some witnesses. I'm supprised the cop didn't put the gun in the dead guys hand and say the Canadian shot his GF and then commited suicide.

LiveSteam

[pippomusic]

Yeah sure,

but please do not say things like "THIS IS THAILAND".

I come from Italy, and in my country Plocie KILL people quite often, and then construct any kind of obviously made-up defense. And judges, legal dooctors, all of them most of the times collude with the police.

In UK, if I don't go wrong, a brazilian guy has been shot in the head in the tube not long ago. And the responsibles? Have they been punished?

And in USA? Awwwwww here I could write a novel about police and unjust violence!

Police is reflection of power, anywhere. And wherever men are legally endorsed to carry and USE guns, such kind of accidents happen. It is not Thailand. The guy is a farang, so maybe something will move. At least.

Carlo Giuliani, shot in the face by a police man in the G8 riots in north italy. The policeman has been released BECAUSE HE SHOT IN THE AIR, AND HIS BULLET BOUNCED ON A FLYING STONE!!! Not even in Thailand they would have such fantasy!

love

Pippo

[mikejacqui]

my wife and I live on samui, for 6 years now, the violence against tourists here is terrible, mainly taxi drivers

[Mobi]

Lots of farang women go to Thailand for sex. Less than the men there but without knowing more and seems like this is a case of judging first and then hear the case later, I'd say that most farangs deserve the crap that they get in Thailand.

Most farangs behave worse than animals in Thailand.

A few of them getting shot and killed isn't such a bad thing if it helps to control the larger farang population.

There speaks the voice of reason and experience.

How refreshing to have such an incisive, original contribution to the debate.

[icemaniac]

YA RIGHT. Hope your witness friend has the guts to say what really happened in a court of law, but I doubt this will turn out justly.

Damian

My bet is on the girl. If she's indeed pregnant from another guy she'll probably be coerced to testify against the dead canadian, putting all blame on him which will keep her & the cop out of prison. The police volunteer fund might even step in with a few donations for the future baby.

Stuff of movies I know so would be interesting to see the final outcome.

No, unless I read this incorrectly? This is a falang woman, not bloody likely to lie against her murdered falang husband, even if she did cheat. This isnt some isaan hooker that can be pressured by her countries gangster police.

Damian

Agreed. Whoever said Thailand is safe to travel to anymore. The amount of murders (including by cops) of foreigners in recent years is astounding. It was a shock a few years back when two australian backpackers were murdered in the jungle near Mae Hong Son, but the stuff that's going on these days is rather astounding. I know of two people beaten senseless into comas (one of who eventually died from his wounds) by gangsters running these illegal bars set up on the sidewalks of Sukumvit Road in BKK.

In the above story, my guess is the drunken cop copped a feel and the hubby got angry and gave him a punch.

[grantbkk]

I would hope that the poor, misguided people who were celebrating how safe there are in Thailand on a General Topics thread in TV this past weekend find the time to read about what really goes on here. Exactly where are the 250,000 police officers when you need one? Everyone should take precautions and have contingency plans when they live abroad. Thailand is NOT a safe place. There is no clearinghouse in Thailand for accurate statistics pertaining to violent crime. In fact I think much of any statistics spewed out by the various ministries in this country are suspect.

[kat]

And in USA? Awwwwww here I could write a novel about police and unjust violence!

Police is reflection of power, anywhere. And wherever men are legally endorsed to carry and USE guns, such kind of accidents happen. It is not Thailand. The guy is a farang, so maybe something will move. At least.

Carlo Giuliani, shot in the face by a police man in the G8 riots in north italy. The policeman has been released BECAUSE HE SHOT IN THE AIR, AND HIS BULLET BOUNCED ON A FLYING STONE!!! Not even in Thailand they would have such fantasy!

love

Pippo

Right, but you are only seeing what you think are similarities and not the differences. In the U.S., cop violence is a major domestic news story, and most obvious cases are tried and convicted. I am definitely not arguing that there are no problems in the U.S. with the police and judicial system, but they would never get away with murder in cold blood on a regular basis the way they do in LOS.

[Prakanong]

Yeah sure,

but please do not say things like "THIS IS THAILAND".

I come from Italy, and in my country Plocie KILL people quite often, and then construct any kind of obviously made-up defense. And judges, legal dooctors, all of them most of the times collude with the police.

In UK, if I don't go wrong, a brazilian guy has been shot in the head in the tube not long ago. And the responsibles? Have they been punished?

And in USA? Awwwwww here I could write a novel about police and unjust violence!

Police is reflection of power, anywhere. And wherever men are legally endorsed to carry and USE guns, such kind of accidents happen. It is not Thailand. The guy is a farang, so maybe something will move. At least.

Carlo Giuliani, shot in the face by a police man in the G8 riots in north italy. The policeman has been released BECAUSE HE SHOT IN THE AIR, AND HIS BULLET BOUNCED ON A FLYING STONE!!! Not even in Thailand they would have such fantasy!

love

Pippo

You do make very valid points but remember in the two Thai cases, Pai and Kanchanaburi we have a Thai policeman who was probably drinking shot a couple each over loss of face.

They meant to kill and they did this while off duty and not trying to prevent law breaking - yes the Menendez case in the UK meant an innocent was dead but it was police acting on orders who thought they were about to prevent a bomb being set offf in an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty just after another terrorist outrage.

I am not trying to defend the police in the UK or elsewhere but the Thai cases are qualitively different.

[cm-happy]

The story was in TITV this morning. Their account is as follows:

A very brawney, hunskey Canadian was having physical battle with his farang wife in a Pai restaurant.

The policemen tried to intervene and the farang guy got angry and physical with the policeman for trying to interfere.

The policeman shot and killed the guy and also shot the farang wife who is now in hospital in CM.

Canadian embassy authorities are now involved and waiting to interview the farang wife.

well that's the TITV version of events.

[onlooker]

The story was in TITV this morning. Their account is as follows:

A very brawney, hunskey Canadian was having physical battle with his farang wife in a Pai restaurant.

The policemen tried to intervene and the farang guy got angry and physical with the policeman for trying to interfere.

Totally implausible. As if it were true, this would mean that the policeman isn't entirely to blame which of course has already been proven by posters here to be incorrect.

[Rinrada]

Rinrada what is your point here?

What about driving in Pakistan, Somalian free economy and the motorbikes of Viet Nam?

This is just jibberish, and please quote the source if you didn't go through all the trouble making it up.

We can travel all these countries if we know how to behave.

1,365 viewers reading this topic at 7-30 am ........thats the point.....

anyway gotta go to work...deepest Islington but safe at the moment apart from the usual low life and happy slappy tourists beaters...yeah.

[Foggy Bottom]

How far can an Embassy really go though - they can do the public thing as well as the quiet word that may have more influence but how much does it help?

I think the families of the Kanchanaburi couple and Kirsty Young were supported and even Welsh police helped with the Young case and probably know who did it but still murderers get away.

JONES !! Kirsty Jones - please quote the correct name to keep a case in the public spotlight

Then the Brit Embassy tried to have criticism of Thailand repressed I seem to recall saying it would hurt the tourist industry.

Absolute Rot! You're confusing cases - TAT requested speedy resolution of the Kanchanaburi, Samui, and Sukhothai murder cases because it would hurt tourism. In fact, they made statements to that effect even before the police had given official statements. The British Embassy would never allow a staff member to make such a statement - the person who did would be pulled back to UK and dismissed from the Foreign Service faster than their feet could touch the ground.

You never brandish a weapon in the hope it will cool off the parties involved; it only escalates matters.

~WISteve

Old western-countries saying "Don't pull a knife or gun unless you're willing to use it"

.... expats know that Thai's will do just that, but do tourists? And is it emphasised in guidebooks?

Del Pinto, 25, took a shot in the mouth, from which the bullet travelled through his shoulder, and another shot on the left side of his torso, while Reisig, 24, was shot on the left side of her torso.

The officer said Uthai was beaten to the ground by the couple. After managing to get up, Uthai pointed his service pistol to threaten away both foreigners, but Del Pinto tried to snatch the pistol from him. After a scuffle, shots were fired and the couple went down.

Source: The Nation - 07 January 2008

There's a distinct "men plaa" here - I don't have the exact statistic to hand, but assuming it's around 85-90% of the world is RIGHT-handed, during a struggle as described, you'd expect the wounds to be in the couple's right sides - strongest and most dextrous arms towards the threat = subconcious reaction during struggle - unless they were trained to fight with spear and shield, in which case the left side would be presented to the threat in order to keep the weapon hand out of the opponent's reach. Wounds to the left side could also indicate the farangs were turning AWAY FROM the cop when they were shot - again it's a subconcious action that in unrestricted space (e.g. not restricted by someone sitting to one side or the other) most people turn to their right (clockwise seen from above) espacially Northern Hemisphere residents (there's a science justification for it but I can't find it right now) - this would have presented their left sides to the cop.

Also, assuning a short-arris Thai cop and a lanky Canadian, just how did the cop shoot him in the mouth with the bullet travelling DOWNWARDS to his shoulder - it implies the Canadian was either bent forward from the waist in an aggressive attack stance / backing away in a highly respectful hands above head wai position, or the guy was on his knees with the cop standing "above him" when he fired. The blood spatter pattern would tell a GOOD forensics team the exact positions involved. Sadly, I understand the nearest one of those is in Australia.

Has anyone else picked up that once again it is a police SGT MAJOR - the highest non-commissioned rank? Kanchanaburi was also a Pol Sgt Maj, and I believe another farang killing in the last few years was also by one of that rank - can't remember the details though. Not sure of the significance in that, but maybe Sgt Maj's should be ordered to leave their guns in their offices when not on duty?

Gaz

[pippomusic]

As for my honest opinion of the case, let's take this at face value and leave judgement for a later time. If you farangs here were so high set on justice, why don't you do something about finding out the truth instead of judging here and now without any truth to back up your claims.

The way you guys make it is that the farang was innocent and the cop a killer.

Most farangs behave worse than animals in Thailand.

I sadly agree with you about Farang behvaiour. But I wouldnt say "most". Many for sure. There are also travelers who honesltly enjoy visiting your country, and benefit from its positive points. And also lots of honest people working or living here because with their pension they would be impoverished and undignified in their home countries. (Cost of living is rising in europe and usa, and working class is having a really hard time)

I live on early sukhumvit, and will change home because I am fed of seeing farangs with huge stomach drinking beer at 10am. And also fed ot having transvestites try to hook me all the time with more energy just because I am below 70 kilos. After a while though they know me, and I can say I have colourful friendly neighbours.

I see your point. In a way you read the up-down tone of these posts. Assuming that because we are in Thailand, the police man is a killer and the farang an innocet victim.

Someone died, and this is terrible. A woman is hurt, and ths is terrible too. Probably the policeman will not sleep peacefully for the rest of his life (total evilness exists only in the Pope speeches).

The fact is that most of us (farangs) believe that in our countries we live in democracies, just because we are called to vote on professional leechers each 4 or 5 years. Of course this is an illusion we love to believe. And since we are mostly farang on this forum, we actually write with an assumption. Many things are good in our countries. Some of us have welfare, some of us live in places which can be called almost democratic (especially north europeans and canadians). But still, we are all in the same shit like the thais. TV, advertisement, consume, is bringing our human side away. Worse, is making us ashame to be human. What we love about Thailand is the smile... something so cheap, yet easy to make available since we all have a mouth, but it lacks so much in our countries!

IF I may give you an advice, try to be less hateful, and accept other people weaknesses and partial blindness, in the hope that others do the same with you.

Besides that, no matter who's right or wrong, we all live in the same shit. Is the factory who built the gun, and th society which allows this to happen to be blamed. Not 3 human beings who happened to cross their ways at the wrong time.

love

Pippo

Edited January 7, 2008 by pippomusic

[sbk]

Please do not respond to offensive posts but use the report button, thanks.

Posts have been deleted, lets try to avoid offensive, inflammatory and abusive posts.

[Prakanong]

QUOTE (Prakanong @ 2008-01-06 22:53:18) How far can an Embassy really go though - they can do the public thing as well as the quiet word that may have more influence but how much does it help?

I think the families of the Kanchanaburi couple and Kirsty Young were supported and even Welsh police helped with the Young case and probably know who did it but still murderers get away.

JONES !! Kirsty Jones - please quote the correct name to keep a case in the public spotlight

QUOTE

Yes - I always get that bloody name confused and say Kirsty Young the Scottish newsreaders name - thanks for pointing it out.

As for the letter asking for the FCO not to mention bad news about Thailand I am sure there was a thread on it here somewhere.

I do know a little bit about the FCO as my best pal is a Deputy Ambassador (not in Asia) but we do not discuss details too much - without aying too much his views on Thailand are not that good

[Maxi101]

As for my honest opinion of the case, let's take this at face value and leave judgement for a later time. If you farangs here were so high set on justice, why don't you do something about finding out the truth instead of judging here and now without any truth to back up your claims.

The way you guys make it is that the farang was innocent and the cop a killer.

Most farangs behave worse than animals in Thailand.

I sadly agree with you about Farang behvaiour. But I wouldnt say "most". Many for sure. There are also travelers who honesltly enjoy visiting your country, and benefit from its positive points. And also lots of honest people working or living here because with their pension they would be impoverished and undignified in their home countries. (Cost of living is rising in europe and usa, and working class is having a really hard time)

I live on early sukhumvit, and will change home because I am fed of seeing farangs with huge stomach drinking beer at 10am. And also fed ot having transvestites try to hook me all the time with more energy just because I am below 70 kilos. After a while though they know me, and I can say I have colourful friendly neighbours.

I see your point. In a way you read the up-down tone of these posts. Assuming that because we are in Thailand, the police man is a killer and the farang an innocet victim.

Someone died, and this is terrible. A woman is hurt, and ths is terrible too. Probably the policeman will not sleep peacefully for the rest of his life (total evilness exists only in the Pope speeches).

The fact is that most of us (farangs) believe that in our countries we live in democracies, just because we are called to vote on professional leechers each 4 or 5 years. Of course this is an illusion we love to believe. And since we are mostly farang on this forum, we actually write with an assumption. Many things are good in our countries. Some of us have welfare, some of us live in places which can be called almost democratic (especially north europeans and canadians). But still, we are all in the same shit like the thais. TV, advertisement, consume, is bringing our human side away. Worse, is making us ashame to be human. What we love about Thailand is the smile... something so cheap, yet easy to make available since we all have a mouth, but it lacks so much in our countries!

IF I may give you an advice, try to be less hateful, and accept other people weaknesses and partial blindness, in the hope that others do the same with you.

Besides that, no matter who's right or wrong, we all live in the same shit. Is the factory who built the gun, and th society which allows this to happen to be blamed. Not 3 human beings who happened to cross their ways at the wrong time.

love

Pippo

Well, there are some guys around in every area who killed somebody once and who are free.

They look like they sleep very well to me.

I love you too Pippo but thats just naiv.

Edited January 7, 2008 by Maxi101

[aqua4]

Wounds to the left side could also indicate the farangs were turning AWAY FROM the cop when they were shot - again it's a subconcious action that in unrestricted space (e.g. not restricted by someone sitting to one side or the other) most people turn to their right....

No, it depends on where the bullet exited. Front or Rear exit would be a better indicator.

Also, assuning a short-arris Thai cop and a lanky Canadian, just how did the cop shoot him in the mouth with the bullet travelling DOWNWARDS to his shoulder - it implies the Canadian was either bent forward from the waist in an aggressive attack stance / backing away in a highly respectful hands above head wai position, or the guy was on his knees with the cop standing "above him" when he fired.

Does not say much as he could have been on top of the cop when the cop fired the gun. When he falls on the ground the trajectory of the bullet would show down into the mouth and shoulder even though the bullet was fired upwards when he was above the cop.

Circumstantial evidence that can be interpreted in many ways.

[wilko]

The verdict according to TV? rthe most totally unbiased a bunch of hypocrites you'd ever want to meet - right?

thank God none of you are my lawyer.

[wrecker]

It i sick that "off duty" officers are allowed to carry a gun. It seems another execution of an drunken idiot that is covered up.