Australian Aged Pension

[ripstanley]

12 hours ago, giddyup said:

What do you mean it's only for passengers? Thought I already said that $10,000 is the limit to transfer from my bank in Australia to my bank in Thailand. It's set in stone, but the crazy thing is I can transfer $10000 every day, as long as I pay the $18 transfer fee.

I was talking about Austrac reports. This is the reporting of money transferred from Australia to OS. The government requires all money transferred by bank or other institutions to be reported to Austrac. If a passenger takes money out of the country it has to be $10,000 or more before a report is made. I was not talking about the limits on banks

[Nemises]

Today's AU newspapers:

 

THE age pension and other social security benefits will next week deliver more than five million Australians their largest pay rise in almost a decade.

From March 20, the rate for a single person receiving an age pension, disability support pension or carer payment will rise by $20.10 a fortnight to $987.60, while for a couple it climbs $30.20 to $1488.80 a fortnight.

Social Services Minister Anne Ruston (pictured) said the 2.1 per cent increase in payments was “the largest increase since 2013” and expected to cost the government an extra $2.2 billion per year. However, the current surge in inflation – driven largely by fuel prices skyrocketing above $2 a litre – means the rise won’t cover higher costs for many pensioners.

Other retirees are being urged to check if they may qualify for a part pension.

Ms Ruston conceded “cost of living pressures are real” and noted the government had driven down costs such as electricity to their lowest levels in eight years.

“We use a specific calculation to increase pensions that takes into account the actual expenses of senior Australians,” she said.

“It gives a higher weighting to fuel and transport costs in recognition of their significance to pensioners, which helps ensure the rate of the age pension maintains senior Australians’ purchasing power in the economy.”

Other government benefit increases from next week include the Jobseeker Payment rising by $13.20 to $629.50 per fortnight for a single person without children, and the Parenting Payment Single increasing by $18.10 to $874.10.

Fortnightly maximum rent assistance will increase to $145.80 for singles and up to $193.62 for families.

However Tribeca Financial CEO Ryan Watson said increases in food, fuel and other everyday items meant “a 2 per cent pension increase just simply doesn’t cut it” for many. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Nemises

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

.

 

Fortnightly maximum rent assistance will increase to $145.80 for singles and up to $193.62 for families.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could afford to rent TWO condos with that amount of rent assistance.

When retirees here get criticized by a couple of politicians for daring to live overseas, they conveniently forget we save the pension budget on rent assistance, the PBS, telephone and energy supplements etc.

[giddyup]

34 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I could afford to rent TWO condos with that amount of rent assistance.

When retirees here get criticized by a couple of politicians for daring to live overseas, they conveniently forget we save the pension budget on rent assistance, the PBS, telephone and energy supplements etc.

Not to mention Medicare.

[Artisi]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I could afford to rent TWO condos with that amount of rent assistance.

When retirees here get criticized by a couple of politicians for daring to live overseas, they conveniently forget we save the pension budget on rent assistance, the PBS, telephone and energy supplements etc.

But that doesn't count in their very very small underdeveloped mind mainly because they are so put of touch to the reality. 

[Artisi]

On 3/14/2022 at 11:24 AM, giddyup said:

Not to mention Medicare.

And reduced or free car registration, drivers licence, rail travel etc. 

[Lacessit]

46 minutes ago, Artisi said:

And reduced or free car registration, drivers licence, rail travel etc. 

I've never seen free car rego in Victoria. Discounted, yes.

Thanks guys, I am suitably humiliated by you listing all the items I forgot.

[giddyup]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I've never seen free car rego in Victoria. Discounted, yes.

Thanks guys, I am suitably humiliated by you listing all the items I forgot.

Bottom line is the Aussie taxpayer saves a bundle by us living outside Australia.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Bottom line is the Aussie taxpayer saves a bundle by us living outside Australia.

They get more than that, if we are classified as non-resident for tax purposes by the ATO, any age pension we get is counted into our taxable income on a 32% tax rate. Talk about giving with one hand, and taking away with the other.

[Artisi]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I've never seen free car rego in Victoria. Discounted, yes.

Thanks guys, I am suitably humiliated by you listing all the items I forgot.

No need to be humiliated, you certainly are more aware than those supposedly running the country. 

[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I've never seen free car rego in Victoria. Discounted, yes.

Thanks guys, I am suitably humiliated by you listing all the items I forgot.

Free rego NSW

[Fat is a type of crazy]

On 3/2/2022 at 2:22 PM, ripstanley said:

I was talking about Austrac reports. This is the reporting of money transferred from Australia to OS. The government requires all money transferred by bank or other institutions to be reported to Austrac. If a passenger takes money out of the country it has to be $10,000 or more before a report is made. I was not talking about the limits on banks

Actually Austrac has details of all amounts you send overseas. You buy a $5 product in Australia from overseas or send  $100 to Thailand. It shows up. The $10000 limit relates to deposits of cash to your account in Australia.  

[ripstanley]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Actually Austrac has details of all amounts you send overseas. You buy a $5 product in Australia from overseas or send  $100 to Thailand. It shows up. The $10000 limit relates to deposits of cash to your account in Australia.  

You are are wrong in part. As i have stated all money transferred OS or into your account from OS is reported to Austrac. The $10,000 is only limited to passengers who are departing or arriving. Austrac is only for money being exported or imported

[Fat is a type of crazy]

8 hours ago, ripstanley said:

You are are wrong in part. As i have stated all money transferred OS or into your account from OS is reported to Austrac. The $10,000 is only limited to passengers who are departing or arriving. Austrac is only for money being exported or imported

 

I am not wrong but I was looking particularly at bank transactions and this may not be relevant to this discussion. Austrac is not just for money imported or exported. It is also for a range of domestic transactions including bank cash deposits and withdrawals over $10,000.   

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[vincent13]

My understanding is that money sent from Australia to overseas is reported to the ATO.  Wise, which i use to transfer money from Australia to Thailand, asked me late last year (on the basis that it was an ATO requirement) whether or not I was an Australian resident for tax purposes. I assume they asked me because I make transfers on a regular basis but not exceeding $2000 at a time.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, vincent13 said:

My understanding is that money sent from Australia to overseas is reported to the ATO.  Wise, which i use to transfer money from Australia to Thailand, asked me late last year (on the basis that it was an ATO requirement) whether or not I was an Australian resident for tax purposes. I assume they asked me because I make transfers on a regular basis but not exceeding $2000 at a time.

 

On 3/2/2022 at 10:22 AM, ripstanley said:

I was talking about Austrac reports. This is the reporting of money transferred from Australia to OS. The government requires all money transferred by bank or other institutions to be reported to Austrac. If a passenger takes money out of the country it has to be $10,000 or more before a report is made. I was not talking about the limits on banks

Re Austrac reports, I wonder if pensions trnsferred abroad every 4 weeks (C/Link and DVA) direct from gov't to Thailand are recorded into austrac records? My guess is that they are.

 

Further I've seen comments before that OAP/DVA recipients who have declared assets taking them over the limit and therefore a reduction in pension receive an automatic notice of their C/Link/DVA payments lbelled for use in lodging tax returns.

 

Whereas dolks who have declared their assets at a very low level don't receive this notice.

 

Any comments?

 

 

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Re Austrac reports, I wonder if pensions trnsferred abroad every 4 weeks (C/Link and DVA) direct from gov't to Thailand are recorded into austrac records? My guess is that they are.

 

Further I've seen comments before that OAP/DVA recipients who have declared assets taking them over the limit and therefore a reduction in pension receive an automatic notice of their C/Link/DVA payments lbelled for use in lodging tax returns.

 

Whereas dolks who have declared their assets at a very low level don't receive this notice.

 

Any comments?

 

 

If I was to report my assets online, I run the risk of Centrelink screwing it up somehow. I last reported my assets at a Centrelink office in 2019. It's not relevant anyway, as my assets are slowly decreasing. My policy is to say nothing until asked. So far, no-one has.

 

My OAP (part) is paid into an Australian bank account. When I have accumulated $20K - $30K, I transfer in a lump sum to Thailand. I've only been asked once why I wanted the money, and I responded for living expenses.

 

In wars, it is the people who stick their heads above the trenches to take a look that get shot. That principle applies with bureaucracies as well.

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/15/2022 at 4:33 PM, giddyup said:

Bottom line is the Aussie taxpayer saves a bundle by us living outside Australia.

The other side to that argument is that pension money is not circulating in the Australian economy. 

 

Ok, so pensioners get cheap rego,  discounted public transport, Medicare, some utility bill subsides etc, but pretty much all of that pension money is spent on the cost of living.  Eg. rent, food, utilities, transport, entertainment, goods, and services etc.  

 

Putting that pension money back into the economy creates jobs, which earns the government income tax from the barman or cook who is serving a beer or meal to a pensioner at the local RSL, for example.

 

Now if that RSL is big enough, they will have to pay Payroll tax, not to mention work cover insurance, superannuation, maternity leave etc etc, which all keeps employees off Centerlink now, and later in life.  

 

There are taxes that the government get back from their pension money being spent in the economy.  Taxes like GST, alcohol and tobacco taxes, fuel excise etc.

 

That $1 of pension money put back into the economy is good for the government.

 

How happy do you think the Australian government is with seeing their pension money going to assist another country's economy, and not Australia's? 

 

How happy do you think the Australian government is that they see zero return on their fortnightly handout?

 

Now ask yourself this question, "Do you think that will try to stop this in the future?"  

 

The new changes to the resident and non-resident for taxation purposes are being discussed in another thread.  It's pretty clear the ATO is going to be relying on the 183 day rule as the primary test.  This is because it's so simple to prove, and can't be denied.  The Immigration data base know if you are inside, or outside Australia, and for how long.  

 

All they would have to do is deem non-residents for taxation purposes ineligible for any Centerlink payments and many, if not all of those pensioners, and their pension money, will be forced back into the Australian economy.   

 

Australia is in record debt.  Not only will they need every dollar, but they will be desperate for it.   

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

If I was to report my assets online, I run the risk of Centrelink screwing it up somehow. I last reported my assets at a Centrelink office in 2019. It's not relevant anyway, as my assets are slowly decreasing. My policy is to say nothing until asked. So far, no-one has.

 

My OAP (part) is paid into an Australian bank account. When I have accumulated $20K - $30K, I transfer in a lump sum to Thailand. I've only been asked once why I wanted the money, and I responded for living expenses.

 

In wars, it is the people who stick their heads above the trenches to take a look that get shot. That principle applies with bureaucracies as well.

I have never had an issue reporting my assets on line.

The onus is on the recipient to update their circumstances within 14 days.

Also being on a part pension, I have found updating my declining assets in times of low interest and returns provide additional pension income.

[Lacessit]

40 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

I have never had an issue reporting my assets on line.

The onus is on the recipient to update their circumstances within 14 days.

Also being on a part pension, I have found updating my declining assets in times of low interest and returns provide additional pension income.

I have an issue with a loan I advanced to my son. For some reason, the online system flags it and I have to sort it out at a Centrelink office. As you probably know, their phone service is inferior to jungle drums.

It may be $5-10 a fortnight I am missing out on, I don't care.

So I've failed to report changes in my assets which would mean my pension would be adjusted upwards. What penalty could they impose for that, quite apart from making themselves look ridiculous on mainstream and social media?

[giddyup]

51 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The other side to that argument is that pension money is not circulating in the Australian economy. 

 

Ok, so pensioners get cheap rego,  discounted public transport, Medicare, some utility bill subsides etc, but pretty much all of that pension money is spent on the cost of living.  Eg. rent, food, utilities, transport, entertainment, goods, and services etc.  

 

Putting that pension money back into the economy creates jobs, which earns the government income tax from the barman or cook who is serving a beer or meal to a pensioner at the local RSL, for example.

 

Now if that RSL is big enough, they will have to pay Payroll tax, not to mention work cover insurance, superannuation, maternity leave etc etc, which all keeps employees off Centerlink now, and later in life.  

 

There are taxes that the government get back from their pension money being spent in the economy.  Taxes like GST, alcohol and tobacco taxes, fuel excise etc.

 

That $1 of pension money put back into the economy is good for the government.

 

How happy do you think the Australian government is with seeing their pension money going to assist another country's economy, and not Australia's? 

 

How happy do you think the Australian government is that they see zero return on their fortnightly handout?

 

Now ask yourself this question, "Do you think that will try to stop this in the future?"  

 

The new changes to the resident and non-resident for taxation purposes are being discussed in another thread.  It's pretty clear the ATO is going to be relying on the 183 day rule as the primary test.  This is because it's so simple to prove, and can't be denied.  The Immigration data base know if you are inside, or outside Australia, and for how long.  

 

All they would have to do is deem non-residents for taxation purposes ineligible for any Centerlink payments and many, if not all of those pensioners, and their pension money, will be forced back into the Australian economy.   

 

Australia is in record debt.  Not only will they need every dollar, but they will be desperate for it.   

You are correct, however if the laws were to change re receiving pension payments outside Australia there would have to be some kind of Grandfather clause, ie I can't see the Aussie government stopping pension payments and forcing some 80 year old (like me) back to Australia after putting down roots for many years in Thailand, or elsewhere.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You are correct, however if the laws were to change re receiving pension payments outside Australia there would have to be some kind of Grandfather clause, ie I can't see the Aussie government stopping pension payments and forcing some 80 year old (like me) back to Australia after putting down roots for many years in Thailand, or elsewhere.

You should never underestimate the capacity of a bureaucracy to cock things up. It is what keeps them employed.

[giddyup]

53 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

I have never had an issue reporting my assets on line.

The onus is on the recipient to update their circumstances within 14 days.

Also being on a part pension, I have found updating my declining assets in times of low interest and returns provide additional pension income.

My assets, that are only in form of money in an Australian bank, have probably dwindled considerably just with inflation in the 12 years I've spent in Thailand, and with also being hit with a ridiculous deeming interest, I'm not sure how I could update my assets in my favor.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

You should never underestimate the capacity of a bureaucracy to cock things up. It is what keeps them employed.

I wouldn't like it, but there is probably just enough left in cash, assuming I don't live for another 20 years, or require lengthy medical treatment, to see me out.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

My assets, that are only in form of money in an Australian bank, have probably dwindled considerably just with inflation in the 12 years I've spent in Thailand, and with also being hit with a ridiculous deeming interest, I'm not sure how I could update my assets in my favor.

There are online calculators which will tell you how much pension you are entitled to when you feed in the information on your assets. If it is substantially different from what you are receiving from Centrelink, and in their favor, time to make a move.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

 

All they would have to do is deem non-residents for taxation purposes ineligible for any Centerlink payments and many, if not all of those pensioners, and their pension money, will be forced back into the Australian economy.   

 

  

You may be right. So where are these pensioners, going to live, under bridges and in tents? Australia has enough of a homeless problem as it is.

IMO it would be a bridge too far for Australia to be the only Western country to deny its pensioners the right to live abroad if they choose to do so.

Australian politicians have learned messing with people of pension age has painful electoral consequences.

If there is any sense left in Australia, ScoMo and his bunch of lying incompetents will be booted out at the next election. Albanese is looking better every day.

Your scenario is possible, but unlikely.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

44 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I have an issue with a loan I advanced to my son. For some reason, the online system flags it and I have to sort it out at a Centrelink office. As you probably know, their phone service is inferior to jungle drums.

It may be $5-10 a fortnight I am missing out on, I don't care.

So I've failed to report changes in my assets which would mean my pension would be adjusted upwards. What penalty could they impose for that, quite apart from making themselves look ridiculous on mainstream and social media?

There would be no penalty for telling them information if you have been underpaid.

The loan presumably has been treated as an asset under the assets test, and as earning income at the deemed rate, for the income test. 

To get rid of it you can tell them either you received repayment, and then tell them what you did with it e.g. spent it, or if the loan is not to be repaid. 

If you can show a fair reason why it is not to be repaid , e.g. person cannot pay, they'll take it off . I doubt they would ask for evidence given presumably you told them about it in the first place.  They may though.

But if you say you have forgiven the loan by choice, or gifted the amount, they may treat it as a gift which means it is assessed under the assets and income test for a 5 further years. This depends on the amount gifted. This is based on information correct many years ago so others may have further details. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Lacessit]

55 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

There would be no penalty for telling them information if you have been underpaid.

The loan presumably has been treated as an asset under the assets test, and as earning income at the deemed rate, for the income test. 

To get rid of it you can tell them either you received repayment, and then tell them what you did with it e.g. spent it, or if the loan is not to be repaid. 

If you can show a fair reason why it is not to be repaid , e.g. person cannot pay, they'll take it off . I doubt they would ask for evidence given presumably you told them about it in the first place.  They may though.

But if you say you have forgiven the loan by choice, or gifted the amount, they may treat it as a gift which means it is assessed under the assets and income test for a 5 further years. This depends on the amount gifted. This is based on information correct many years ago so others may have further details. 

You are probably correct in everything you say.

At my age (78) I simply can't be bothered jumping through Centrelink hoops for a few dollars.

[Will27]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

You may be right. So where are these pensioners, going to live, under bridges and in tents? Australia has enough of a homeless problem as it is.

IMO it would be a bridge too far for Australia to be the only Western country to deny its pensioners the right to live abroad if they choose to do so.

Australian politicians have learned messing with people of pension age has painful electoral consequences.

If there is any sense left in Australia, ScoMo and his bunch of lying incompetents will be booted out at the next election. Albanese is looking better every day.

Your scenario is possible, but unlikely.

I've said something similar before.

I seriously doubt the government and ATO would target pensioners and low income earners.

 

Imagine the publicity the government would cop when a pensioners tops himself because he was forced to leave his family overseas and comeback to Oz.

 

I think KhunHeinekin is scaremongering myself.

[LosLobo]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I have an issue with a loan I advanced to my son. For some reason, the online system flags it and I have to sort it out at a Centrelink office. As you probably know, their phone service is inferior to jungle drums.

It may be $5-10 a fortnight I am missing out on, I don't care.

So I've failed to report changes in my assets which would mean my pension would be adjusted upwards. What penalty could they impose for that, quite apart from making themselves look ridiculous on mainstream and social media?

I understand all about getting things done with Centrelink.

Never physically send anything always upload it to MyGov.

If you have to phone them I always found phoning Complaints to get a Grade 3 who actually knows something. The one's who answer phones usually give you the wrong answer.

With things like loans or gifts I just make the change then upload the details in a letter. 
Do you know that you can write loans off to gifting @ 10k/year for 3 years and then start again after 5 years? This will increase your pension.
If the loan was repaid with cash or goods this may not affect your pension. If it was not repaid or adjusted with gifting it will still remain as a loan ad finitum.
All this can be done on line except if retrospective you will need to advise them. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by LosLobo