Australian Aged Pension

[david96]

So you are saying with surety, that if one is at the correct age of 65 (for most of us), have the allowable amounts of assets etc (allowing for the sliding scale of payment), are up-front with all your dealings with Centrelink, (wise anyway), you will be placed on the "International Status List" and can live overseas and be paid monthly (probably into an Australian bank account)

This would appear to be correct and only applies to age (retirement) 65+ claimants.

Remember Thailand does not have social security agreements with Australia which apply to many European countries including the UK.

[ozzydom]

So you are saying with surety, that if one is at the correct age of 65 (for most of us), have the allowable amounts of assets etc (allowing for the sliding scale of payment), are up-front with all your dealings with Centrelink, (wise anyway), you will be placed on the "International Status List" and can live overseas and be paid monthly (probably into an Australian bank account)

I posted what transpired in my case , I was fully expecting some flack so was pleasantly surprised with the outcome,I did not ask for anything , the final result was all offered to me.

I was not and indeed am still not aware of current regulations pertaining to pensioners abroad but you do not look a gift horse in the mouth.

I have no family in Oz, having outlived them so it was a weight off my mind to know I can live out my declining years in S/E Asia , Now if Thai Immigration were to be as gracious ,Whoopeee.

[fishhooks]

As far as Thailand is concerned I guess I'm okay to stay there, as long as when I am on their soil I report each 90 days and keep a few bob in the SCB.

I hear what you are saying with regard to what "transpired in your case", however the guidlines are usually fairly explicit and if you (or anyone else in the same situation) was not entitled to be paid from afar, I'm sure you would not be getting it.

I must admit, I'm quite surprised, as I've only heard in the past that if one doesn't call Oz their home and remain here most of the time after 65, the payment stops!

Maybe, and I think someone else hinted at this, one needs to channel their case specifically through the Hobart office as it's their little domain.

It wouldn't be too hard to imagine that other Centrelink areas don't know or care about this fact, so people trying to find out about their entitlements are just sent away and think they have no chance of being paid.

It's also a shame that complete info isn't in print somewhere so everyone has a 'fighting' chance.

[ozzydom]

Totally agree with you fishhooks, the Embassy told me last year about the 13 weeks business so unless there has been a change in policy /regulations even they dont know.

Although I did notice in reading the CL link that aged pensioners can receive benifits overseas but possibly at a reduced level,which may only mean that you cannot claim "extras" while outside Oz.

Another point that may interest other OAP recipients living here, I rang CL Hobart this morning because they had put a small payment in my account (less than $100) ,and I initially thought the worst.

But evidentally we are paid a loading every 12 weeks in lieu of claiming extras (relief).

I have always encountered difficulties with getting replacement debit cards from my Oz bank (usually go missing in transit) and the Oz banks wont send them direct to you. Plus of course the $4 debit fee every withdrawal.

I mentioned this problem this morning and they are sending me a form to return to them with my Thai bank details so that CL can deposit my pension direct into that account in Thai Baht.

cheers

ozzydom

[Goinghomesoon]

The Centrelink information sheet "Are you leaving Australia" says you can generally continue to receive your old age pension for the whole period you are outside Australia but the rate you receive may change.

www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/publications/int019.htm

Edited May 7, 2008 by Goinghomesoon

[Old Croc]

I have always encountered difficulties with getting replacement debit cards from my Oz bank (usually go missing in transit) and the Oz banks wont send them direct to you. Plus of course the $4 debit fee every withdrawal.

I mentioned this problem this morning and they are sending me a form to return to them with my Thai bank details so that CL can deposit my pension direct into that account in Thai Baht.

cheers

ozzydom

You might want to check this more closely ozzy. The exchange rate might be horrendous as I've found out when considering transferring money in baht through a bank.

The $4 charge might be cheap by comparison.

I'm nevertheless astounded that Cl would do this!

Edited May 7, 2008 by Old Croc

[ozzydom]

I have always encountered difficulties with getting replacement debit cards from my Oz bank (usually go missing in transit) and the Oz banks wont send them direct to you. Plus of course the $4 debit fee every withdrawal.

I mentioned this problem this morning and they are sending me a form to return to them with my Thai bank details so that CL can deposit my pension direct into that account in Thai Baht.

cheers

ozzydom

You might want to check this more closely ozzy. The exchange rate might be horrendous as I've found out when considering transferring money in baht through a bank.

The $4 charge might be cheap by comparison.

I'm nevertheless astounded that Cl would do this!

Roger, Croc, I will check it out before I change anything,But according to the CL officer its an everyday thing, because he did say that they had feedback to the effect that people doing this were coming out in front

I might have misunderstood him but I think he said that the money is actually deposited in the currency of the country the bank is in at the exchange rates at that time.I would imagine its all done automatically by a program.

[fishhooks]

A very poor exchange rate usually applies to any funds transferred ex Australia with the funds already converted to an overseas rate.

Much better (in my humble opinion) to use an Australian bank account for them to deposit payments into, being an account you can control on the internet.

Depending on how readily you need the fortnightly (or is it monthly) payment, let your funds build up in your Australian bank, then once in a while, do a Telegraphic Transfer from your bank in OZ to your bank in Thailand. TRANSACTION IN AUD TO BE CONVERTED IN THAILAND BY YOUR THAI BANK INTO THB.

The T.T. is usually a tad over A$20 charged by your OZ bank, often takes only a few hours and results in a much better outcome into your Thai bank.

You can do the whole block and dice in Thailand via the internet if that's where you are, very simply.

Edited May 7, 2008 by fishhooks

[Old Croc]

I transferred money by TT recently. It cost $A35. Western Union would be about twice that.

They asked if I wanted it converted to baht before sending, I refused because they use a different rate than you get at the other end.

But, in your circumstances, I think you are better off transferring from your oz bank through your visa or debit card despite the problems and fees. Maybe a change of bank could alleviate that $A4 fee.

[fishhooks]

ANZ & Commonwealth are a few $ over 20.

I transfer fairly regularly from Commonwealth to Siam Commercial Bank, sometimes in less than a couple of hours and lands in Thailand at around 28 - 29 Baht fully converted and that's even allowing for the fees involved which I allow for when calculating the result.

Always do in A$ letting the Thai's do the conversion to Baht.

Can watch the whole procedure on internet as the funds arrive in Thailand.

[Old Croc]

ANZ & Commonwealth are a few $ over 20.

I transfer fairly regularly from Commonwealth to Siam Commercial Bank, sometimes in less than a couple of hours and lands in Thailand at around 28 - 29 Baht fully converted and that's even allowing for the fees involved which I allow for when calculating the result.

Always do in A$ letting the Thai's do the conversion to Baht.

Can watch the whole procedure on internet as the funds arrive in Thailand.

Commonwealth sounds better than Bankwest for this function. I'll remember for next time, thanks.

[tropo]

Why not get an Aussie credit card which has zero overseas ATM fees. There's plenty of them around - usually the gold or plantinum cards.

Link it up with a savings ac at the same bank and just transfer the money to your credit card via internet banking and withdraw the money at ATM's in Thailand when you need it.

You will of course be hit with an annual card fee and service charges for your account, so shop around for a low fee card.

[ThaiItAgain]

I don't turn 65 for another couple of years but when I do, I was under the impression that I could claim the Australian Aged Pension while continuing to reside in Thailand.

Having paid massive amounts in Australian income tax and every other tax they can think of for my entire working life, I figured I could look forward to living reasonably well on our Aged Pension in Thailand. Problem is, according to one source, I might not be able to claim the pension if I am not living in Australia. Another says it will cut-out after 26 weeks if I am away from Oz.

Tried to get info from the so called "Seniors" Link through the Aust. Gvt. website. No USE!!

Would greatly appreciate ANY and ALL info you can offer.

Cheers,

VOICEOVER.

[ThaiItAgain]

Hi there VOICEOVER,

I am over the Age for pension and I get one from Centerlink. I went to Thailand in 2007, left in April and returned October 20th Whilst I was away, I gave a trusted friend permission to handle my afairs regarding Centerlink.

The amount of pension you will get is determined by the amount of assets and cash you have; that goes for your partner, defacto, wife. As you well know, you have to be an Australian citizen and have to have worked for at least 25 years before you can get an old age pension.

You will need to contact International division Centerlink in Hobart Tasmania and advise them of your intention to go overseas to live. I think you will get all the information you require from them.

When I left for Thailand in April 2007, the local branch in Brisbane told me that if I was out of the country for greater than 6 months then my pension would be posponed until I got back. whilst I was away, they sent out an assest and cash update document for which they needed evidence of my assests and cash pluss any super or shares that I had. This is where your authorised trusted person is able to help you, he/she can fill in all that stuff for you and have access to all your information. He /she will then forward it to them in that way you keep them happy. If your pension should be posponed while all the information is beeing gathered by your trusted person; once they get it your pension will be reavaluated and it will start again at the new value. this way the pension keeps fllowing. If you have no assests, cash, investments or anything including a home or property, then you will get $ 540 per each 2 weeks per single person. There appears to be no official documentation on the web that adequatley describes the proceedure for being overses as an Old agae pensioner It does not say that old age pensioners that are out of the country for a long time that the pension will stop full time. Hobart is the only place that you can get the full understanding of what will happen. They wish to know how long you have worked for in Australia and if you're an Australin Citizen. Once they get proof of that and are satisfied I thiink they allow it to continue but of course you need to keep all the documents going to them. they also will need your overseas address to keep in touch with you.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject for you.

ThaiItAgain

Edited May 14, 2008 by ThaiItAgain

[GungaDin]

How much cash can you have in the bank before you get penalised and your single person's pension is reduced?

Thanks

[think_too_mut]

How much cash can you have in the bank before you get penalised and your single person's pension is reduced?

Thanks

First 250K AUD do not reduce Oz pension. After that there is some scale, not sure.

[GungaDin]

^^^TTM, thank you.

[samuibeachcomber]

I had always assumed that the Australian OAP was 'means tested'. Is this the case and if so, at what income level does it cut off?

I retired to Thailand in 1997 at the age of 45. My income is from investments in Australia. On the advice of my accountant, I declared myself 'non-resident' in Australia and now pay 10% flat tax on earnings there. That is a lot less than I was paying.

Should I live to the age of 65, (highly unlikly with my lifestyle), how poor will I need to be to receive an old age pension or part there of?

'bgood' '2008-01-11 20:55:29' post='1755849"

read your message re "non-resident" in australia now paying only 10% on earnings there.I dont have an accountant in oz and was wondering if you'd be prepared to give me your accountants contact details as i need some good advise

[bgood]

^ I have sent you a PM with the details you requested, samuibeachcomber.

Most of my income is from term investment accounts in an Australian bank. At the moment I'm receiving 8.2% on these. If you inform the bank that you are non resident Australian, they take a withholding tax of 10% from any interest payments and no further tax is payable.

I also hold shares in companies listed on the ASX whose dividends are fully franked and therefore I am not required to submit a tax return each year (unless I sell shares and have to pay capital gains tax).

[Patong Bob]

Don't forget you have to be a resident of Australia when you claim the pension. Doesn't matter if you lived there from 0 to 64 if walk in for your claim asnd say I now live in Thailand then you get no pension. If you use your kids's address you can say if they check that you had been on holiday in Thailand and it will be accepted.

Have you all contacted ypur MP yet ?

[david96]

To register for a retirement pension (65+) you have to apply in Australia, be an Australian citizen or permanent resident.

You will have to comply with the 100 point ID requirement, documents can be a passport, drivers licence, medicare card, Australian bank ATM card. Your current address in Australia. Your current income and investments and assets in Australia, copies of bank statements verified by your bank as to the amount being correct. Superannuation details if applicable.

Tax file number. Centrelink uses data matching with Immigration and the Aust Tax Office.

As soon as you register and meet the criteria they will inform you of the date of your first payment, you will be issued with a file number which you use in all comunication with Centrelink in the future. Make sure you reply to all correspondence and notify then if you change your address. If you have lived outside Australia they will find out so be honest with them.

[ThaiItAgain]

I agree with your cvomment that the rate can be very disapointing Sending over as TT in Australian funds is a better option it takesd about 72 hrs to come into effect if your bank is NAB.

ThaiItAgain

[Artisi]

To register for a retirement pension (65+) you have to apply in Australia, be an Australian citizen or permanent resident.

You will have to comply with the 100 point ID requirement, documents can be a passport, drivers licence, medicare card, Australian bank ATM card. Your current address in Australia. Your current income and investments and assets in Australia, copies of bank statements verified by your bank as to the amount being correct. Superannuation details if applicable.

Tax file number. Centrelink uses data matching with Immigration and the Aust Tax Office.

As soon as you register and meet the criteria they will inform you of the date of your first payment, you will be issued with a file number which you use in all comunication with Centrelink in the future. Make sure you reply to all correspondence and notify then if you change your address. If you have lived outside Australia they will find out so be honest with them.

This is pretty well spot-on the mark. Where some people run into problems is that they are living overseas for a number of years prior to their pension date - they return home and apply for the pension and because of the time they have been out of the country for a number of years (there is nothing stipulated that I am aware of) they get classified as "Former Residents" - what this means is that you can not leave the country for a period of 2 years - if you do your pension is cancelled. In the case of people returning to Aust to register for the pension (you have to be in Australia to do this) you need to push like mad to be classified as a resident - this can take many forms - if you returned to Aust. say every year for a visit, held real estate, medical insurance paid some taxes etc you can swear your life away saying that you always intended to return to Aust. as you considered yourself to be on an extended holiday, that you are not a "Resident" of any other country, do not have any interests in businesses or large savings o/seas etc etc you could get a friendly hearing, if it goes against you - there is an avenue to protest this and it will be reviewed external to the centrelink office where you applied.

once you get classsifiedas a resident you can come and go as you like .

[roskruge]

What is a 'proportional' Australian pension? Many Centrelink customers living outside of Australia receive a 'proportional' rate of Australian pension. This means that the rate of pension paid to those customers is based on their Australian residence, as well as on the amount of their income and assets.

People who are granted an Australian pension under the terms of an international agreement will usually receive a proportional rate. In addition, many other pensioners who were granted while they were in Australia but have since left Australia, will find that their pension rate is reduced to a proportional rate after they have been outside Australia for 26 weeks.

A proportional rate is generally based on the length of time the person was an Australian resident during their 'working life'. This is defined as the period between 16 years of age and age pension age during which the person was legally entitled to remain in Australia (i.e. was an Australian citizen or the holder of an appropriate visa which allows for permanent residence) and was actually residing in Australia. This length of time is calculated in whole months. If the person was an Australian resident for at least 300* months (25 years) during their working life, then the full rate of pension is payable (unless reduced under the income or assets test). However, if the person was an Australian resident for less than 300 months during their working life, then their rate of pension is generally reduced.

Working life residence is based purely on permanent and legal residence in Australia - it does not matter if the person was employed or unemployed or paid taxes for any or none of the period they lived in Australia. (*it is possible that under some future international agreements this figure may be varied.)

Examples:

1. Mr Hayward was granted permanent Australian residence and then lived in Australia for 185 months (15 years and 5 months) during his working life. His proportional rate of Australian pension would be 185/300ths of his normal rate.

2. Ms Penni, who is an Australian citizen by birth, lived in Australia for only 48 months (4 years) during her working life. Her proportional rate would be 48/300ths.

[fishhooks]

So there is a clear and understandable policy available for those of us that are Australian Citizens, have lived and worked in Australia for say 40+ years, have not been absent from the shores for anything other than a holiday, even did National Service, and have decided at this late stage of life of over 65 to spend perhaps retirement in a country such as Thailand?

The reason I'm detailing this post such as, is that it still (according to some earlier posts) seems that you have to go hands and knees to some office in Hobart Tasmania to plead your case and 'maybe' be accepted to have the pension penny's paid.

I do understand and acknowledge that the payment would of course be subject to the assetts etc test.

I think I also read somewhere, (it may have been on this forum in the past) that if you own a house in this great country, that you are not allowed to lock it up whilst you are away, but must rent it out and the rent received thus probably reduce your pension.

Big Brother appears in many circumstances!

[Patong Bob]

So there is a clear and understandable policy available for those of us that are Australian Citizens, have lived and worked in Australia for say 40+ years, have not been absent from the shores for anything other than a holiday, even did National Service, and have decided at this late stage of life of over 65 to spend perhaps retirement in a country such as Thailand?

The reason I'm detailing this post such as, is that it still (according to some earlier posts) seems that you have to go hands and knees to some office in Hobart Tasmania to plead your case and 'maybe' be accepted to have the pension penny's paid.

I do understand and acknowledge that the payment would of course be subject to the assetts etc test.

I think I also read somewhere, (it may have been on this forum in the past) that if you own a house in this great country, that you are not allowed to lock it up whilst you are away, but must rent it out and the rent received thus probably reduce your pension.

Big Brother appears in many circumstances!

[Patong Bob]

Sorry about the last post, don't know what happened.

You don't have to rent out your house, you can leave it locked up, but after three years overseas it becomes an asset so if you live in say, South Melbourne, where a "worker's cottage" will sell for $800,000 then your pension is down the drain. Best to come back and live in it for a few weeks a year.

Be very careful about the Centrelink rules....there are a lot of traps there.

[GungaDin]

Hi Bob, you used to work for CL?

Or have I got you mixed up with another poster?

[mijan24]

I transferred money by TT recently. It cost $A35. Western Union would be about twice that.

They asked if I wanted it converted to baht before sending, I refused because they use a different rate than you get at the other end.

But, in your circumstances, I think you are better off transferring from your oz bank through your visa or debit card despite the problems and fees. Maybe a change of bank could alleviate that $A4 fee.

Old Croc that seems strange the $35 I mean maybe it relates to the particular bank you are or were using.

Commonwealth Bank Australia $22 for TT max amount per netbank transaction $10000 (the $22 applies to any amount from $1 to $10000.

I had been withdrawing via the ATM and found the rates exhorbitant ANZ have a withdrwal fee plus a-%- of the amount withdrawn it was costing approx $22 per 20000 baht.

Last year when in Oz found best way at that time was to netbank it from ANZ to CBA and then TT each month or two or three for total cost $22.

If anyone has an easier or cheaper solution would love to hear from them.

Another interesting item CL dealing out of Tas - Actually DVA process all overseas pensions from Tas also but will only deposit in Aust last time I checked, if this has changed once again love to hear about it.

[roskruge]

I have been receiving Australian Disability Pension, then the Age Pension in Thailand over the past 4 to 5 years at first it was via an ANZ debit card withdrawal but since Feb 2006 paid directly by Centrelink into my Kasikorn Savings account via SWIFT.

I receive it promptly every 28 days on the Tuesday. judging by the amount I don't think I am losing any money, I think Centrelink Hobart makes a single Payment to the bank covering all its customers. I don't think there any charges to me, out of my Pension. I am on the maximum rate you can receive overseas, for a single person, without being hit for assets.

Over the past 12 months it has varied from 25,000 to 32,500 Baht depending on exchange rate at the time, at the moment I am getting the higher rate. I think the next payment may top 32,500 Baht, due to the high Aussie dollar and the falling Baht.