Australian Aged Pension

[keithpa]

2 minutes ago, keithpa said:

One should know my circumstances before doubting me. I was not a former resident. I lived with  my son and took long holidays abroad.

I even got a disability pension about a year before I turned 65, which they would take off me after I had been out of the country 3 months. Then give it back to me when ;i would go back to stay permanently, but , something would always come up, so I would have to return to LOS. . I did my research, not take advice from social media.

[keithpa]

4 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

Well that's not what you said here.

 

I had been in thailand for 10 years, went back to Oz, applied for the OAP, came back to LOS and a few weeks later, got my OAP. End of story, im out here,

Think about it sceadugenga.

[sceadugenga]

A DSP is a residency based pension, if you were on it when you applied than you have no problem transferring to the Age Pension.

I doubt that many of the people here worrying about portability of the Age pension would be in that situation.

[keithpa]

1 minute ago, sceadugenga said:

A DSP is a residency based pension, if you were on it when you applied than you have no problem transferring to the Age Pension.

I doubt that many of the people here worrying about portability of the Age pension would be in that situation.

You got it ol son. "Residency" is the magic word. I will correct what i wrote before, I didnt "live " in LOS for 10 years, I holidayed here.

[keithpa]

2 minutes ago, keithpa said:

You got it ol son. "Residency" is the magic word. I will correct what i wrote before, I didnt "live " in LOS for 10 years, I holidayed here.

I sat for an interview for the DSP, they knocked me back, I wasnt crook enough, said i need to be trained for a j ob I can do, i said i am 64, OAP in one year, what could they train me to do in that time and , why bother, they agreed. I do of course have passport entries and bank statements that prove what I say. I am not your typical thaivisa member, I can always prove what I say.

[giddyup]

51 minutes ago, keithpa said:

Born in OZ, worked and paid taxes till I was 55. Then took up to 11 month holidays per year in thailand till I was 65.

I see you qualified your initial deceptive comments.

Edited December 10, 2017 by giddyup

[keithpa]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

You were still considered a resident of Australia, that's why. If you'd lived continuously in Thailand  for that time you would have had to reside back in Oz for 2 years to qualify.

I dont believe this, so now your telling ME how and why I get the OAP!!!

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, keithpa said:

I dont believe this, so now your telling ME how and why I get the OAP!!!

I had been in thailand for 10 years, went back to Oz, applied for the OAP, came back to LOS and a few weeks later, got my OAP. End of story, im out here,

 

Your initial statement was totally misleading and perhaps gave others some kind of false hope. If you don't see that perhaps someone else might make it simpler for you.

[keithpa]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I had been in thailand for 10 years, went back to Oz, applied for the OAP, came back to LOS and a few weeks later, got my OAP. End of story, im out here,

 

Your initial statement was totally misleading and perhaps gave others some kind of false hope. If you don't see that perhaps someone else might make it simpler for you.

I can lead a horse to water, but, I cant make it drink. Happy trails and gnight.

[Will27]

22 hours ago, keithpa said:

I can lead a horse to water, but, I cant make it drink. Happy trails and gnight.

You kept insisting there was no 2 year waiting period for expats living overseas wanting to go on the pension.

Said you were living in Thailand for 10 years etc.

You bagged anyone who said there was a 2 year waiting period.

 

Now you say you weren't living in Thailand, just holidaying.

Plus you transferred from the DSP to the OAP, which has been pointed out,

is entirely different to the vast majority on here.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

You kept insisting there was no 2 year waiting period for expats living overseas wanting to go on the pension.

Said you were living in Thailand for 10 years etc.

You bagged anyone who said there was a 2 year waiting period.

 

Now you say you weren't living in Thailand, just holidaying.

Plus you transferred from the DSP to the OAP, which has been pointed out,

is entirely different to the vast majority on here.

He got caught with his pants down and doesn't like it.

[tifino]

13 minutes ago, giddyup said:

He got caught with his pants down and doesn't like it.

I saw that as a simple logical action...

 

.. the Convert from the DSP across to the OAP when reach the required age

 

 

 

If with the new  rules;  one intends to spend any more than 12 weeks in the rolling 12 month period;

then the DSP itself gets totally cancelled, and one would have to repeatedly re-apply, which includes having to go through the whole doctor assessment process from scratch,

each time...

( the cancellation occurs after the 12 weeks, noting that the Energy Concession freeze had already occurred at the 4 weeks point)

 

With the OAP; going overseas simply results in having the Energy Concessions halted, until return to OZ (after you have been gone for 4 weeks)

[sceadugenga]

Correct, the only way someone on the DSP can spend more than 4 paid weeks a year overseas, made up to 13 weeks with unpaid weeks, is to apply to be reassessed for  Indefinite/Unlimited Portability under the Impairment tables of 2012.

[Gobbledegook]

I don't know if this has been posted before but it is definitely worth a read for the knowledge in it.

 

http://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/1/1/10

[rhodie]

3 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I don't know if this has been posted before but it is definitely worth a read for the knowledge in it.

 

http://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/1/1/10

The link is worth a read, but might I say it is all Gobbledegook! Nothing is properly defined and a lot of it is open to interpretation. As in "Any other matter relevant to determining whether the person intends to remain permanently in Australia.". So they list 5 reasons to determine if you have resided in Australia, and then use the above gotcha just in case. I currently travel a lot, but have the first 5 covered. The 6th, well....... just gobbledegook. 

[ELVIS123456]

On 12/6/2017 at 11:11 AM, sceadugenga said:

I suggested Cairns for people waiting out their 2 years, climate and rent prices being  a factor.

I see China Southern Airlines has added it to their list of destinations as well.

 

http://www.csair.com/au/en/

 

 

We are going north early next year - Fraser Coast.  Currently in Vic on NSW border and it is was freezing from March to this month. I was cold but the wife has been freezing - she was wearing snow gear when going to shops.  Recommend anywhere north of Newcastle on the coast - not inland until at least Qld as it gets freezing in winter. Not sure about west coast, but probably the same. I hear there is bargains in Darwin - post the mining boom prices are dropping and people leaving - maybe if Fraser Coast not good. But maybe Cairns or Townsville too. 

 

 

[sceadugenga]

1 hour ago, rhodie said:

The link is worth a read, but might I say it is all Gobbledegook! Nothing is properly defined and a lot of it is open to interpretation. As in "Any other matter relevant to determining whether the person intends to remain permanently in Australia.". So they list 5 reasons to determine if you have resided in Australia, and then use the above gotcha just in case. I currently travel a lot, but have the first 5 covered. The 6th, well....... just gobbledegook. 

What you say is quite correct, for years DSP eligibility was based on similar residency/portability rules, then one day they changed it to a hard and fast time spent overseas per year regulation.

If anything, it gives people some leeway to appeal what they consider a bad decision to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.

And yes, some do succeed....

[rhodie]

10 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

What you say is quite correct, for years DSP eligibility was based on similar residency/portability rules, then one day they changed it to a hard and fast time spent overseas per year regulation.

If anything, it gives people some leeway to appeal what they consider a bad decision to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.

And yes, some do succeed....

What is the "hard and fast time spent overseas per year regulation" and can you provide a link to it.

EDIT. Sorry, just saw that you were referring to DSP.

Edited December 12, 2017 by rhodie

[sceadugenga]

This is for DSP... nothing to do with Age Pension.

 

From 1 January 2015, DSP recipients (not granted indefinite portability) can generally only be paid for 4 weeks, in a 12-month period, of a temporary absence and should be cancelled immediately if advised that their intention is to depart permanently.

WP and WidB (not entitled) can generally only be paid for 6 weeks of either a temporary or permanent absence.

Other working-age payments with an allowed portability period for a temporary absence should be cancelled immediately on permanent departure.

This period begins on the first day of absence and ends either on the earlier of:

• the first day at which the absence is not allowed, or
• after the allowed portability period has ended.

http://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/2/10

 

 

[sceadugenga]

Keithpa I've removed your two posts because you're becoming frustrated and repeating stuff that's not relevant to most of the people here.

If you have an issue with this click the report button and let the senior moderators sort it out.

[Rimmer]

A post discussing moderation has been removed

[4MyEgo]

On 10/12/2017 at 9:06 PM, nev said:

No two years to wait, I hope what you say is true I don't want to have to go back and leave my family find a place to live and see out two bloody years.

I am 8 years away from having to go back and anything can happen in that time.

Nev, if you have retained you residency, i.e. remain an Australia Resident for tax purposes and can prove it, you won't have to wait the two year period for the portability of your old age pension, however if you are deemed a Non Resident/Foreign Resident, same meaning, your toast, go to jail, serve two years before your old age pension can be portable.

 

I do note that some people get up here and boast and say they got it after long absences from Australia, as if it was gift rapped when they applied when they returned, applied and left the country, which I suspect is a load of crap !!!

 

The disability pension is a little different I am told, but I wouldn't know 555

 

I would suggest as others have, ring the international line and discuss with them, as others have had some good feedback, also don't forget, you have the assets test to pass as well, and as I also read you said you have kids here, if they are recognised in Australia, I can't see you claiming that Thailand isn't your abode, i.e. usual place of residency, this all came about with the 183 day rule, e.g. if your out of the country for more than 183 days in any financial year, you are classed as a Non Resident for tax purposes unless you can prove otherwise, which means you have to jump through a lot of hoopla hoops to retain your Australian Residency to be able to get the old age pension portability without having to wait the 2 years.

 

Good luck with your enquiries mate

[4MyEgo]

On 12/12/2017 at 1:35 PM, rhodie said:

The link is worth a read, but might I say it is all Gobbledegook! Nothing is properly defined and a lot of it is open to interpretation. As in "Any other matter relevant to determining whether the person intends to remain permanently in Australia.". So they list 5 reasons to determine if you have resided in Australia, and then use the above gotcha just in case. I currently travel a lot, but have the first 5 covered. The 6th, well....... just gobbledegook. 

Not really gobbledgook as you say, from my interpretation, i.e. if you return two years prior to reaching the OAP age, doing it this way, sorts number 6 on the list, i.e. yeh been living here for the past two years and intend on staying here for good, although as my wife has family back in Thailand, we will go back every now and again for a holiday, but that will depend if I can afford it, otherwise she will have to go alone 555

 

Determining whether a person is residing in Australia

SSAct section 7(3) lists the factors to be taken into account when deciding whether a person is residing in Australia. These are:

1. The frequency and duration of the person's travel outside Australia.
2. The nature of the accommodation used by the person in Australia.
3. The nature and extent of the family relationships the person has in Australia.
4. The nature and extent of the person's employment, business or financial ties in Australia.
5. The nature and extent of the person's assets located in Australia.
6. Any other matter relevant to determining whether the person intends to remain permanently in Australia.

When making a determination about whether a person is 'residing' - in other words 'living' - in Australia, the key point is to establish that Australia is the person's settled or usual place of abode - i.e. that the person makes Australia his or her home. In general, it is not possible for a person to be residing in more than one country at the same time. In most cases, the balance of a person's ties will weigh more heavily in favour of one country than another.

The decision as to whether a person is residing in Australia must be based on the balance of all the available evidence. No single factor should be taken to be conclusive on its own and some factors will usually provide a greater indication than others, however in the majority of cases the most weight should be given to the time spent in Australia. In general, it is also expected that a person who resides in Australia will be able to demonstrate strong ties to Australia under a number of different criteria listed in SSAct section 7(3).

 

You will see below Derek bombed out:

 

Example 1: Derek is single, aged 56, and has spent the last 2 years in Thailand as he prefers the climate and cost of living. He initially went for a short holiday and when he came back he rented out his furnished property in Australia on an indefinite basis and took on a long term lease of an apartment in Thailand. He is not employed. He keeps in contact with extended family by phone and has a return trip booked to Australia for medical treatment. He has to renew his Thai visa every year and does not consider himself to be a resident of Thailand because he is not eligible for a permanent visa there. He plans to return to Australia one day and for this reason has not sold his house.

Derek's argument that he does not have a permanent visa to stay in Thailand does not override the fact that he spends the majority of his time living in Thailand. Based on the duration of his absence and the fact that his plans to return to live in Australia are vague, at this point in time he is considered to be residing in Thailand.

 

You will see below that John and Belinda succeeded: 

 

Example 2: John and Belinda are both retired and have rented out their home in Australia for 2 years while they are in Europe. Their vehicle is on loan to John's brother in Australia who is looking after their furniture. They have purchased a townhouse in Perugia in Italy for their daughter who will be studying at a nearby university for 4 years and they see it as a good investment. They plan to have an extended holiday in Europe after their daughter has settled into her first year of study. They have a firm plan to return to Australia at the end of the 2 years as John expects to be doing contract work for his previous employer. Due to the fact that their plans in Europe are for a defined period and a short term purpose and there is other supporting evidence, they are considered to still be residing in Australia.

 

The way I see it, if you return two years prior and re-establish your residency and also pass the assets test, which will be a problem for me, one shouldn't really have a problem receiving the pension and also leaving as soon as one has received it, as you would have established your residency at the time your OAP was approved and wouldn't have to wait for the 2 year portability rule. Do it the other way around and you will still have to wait two years anyway, its just cleaner this way, and you might be able to save some coin in the 2 year period, or struggle on newstart allowance (the dole) 555

 

[sceadugenga]

Residency for tax purposes is not necessarily the same as residency for Centrelink purposes.

Different government departments do it differently.

 

https://www.elodge.com.au/etax-au/am-i-an-australian-resident-for-tax-purposes/#.WjTxEHkxX3g

[4MyEgo]

39 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

Residency for tax purposes is not necessarily the same as residency for Centrelink purposes.

Different government departments do it differently.

 

https://www.elodge.com.au/etax-au/am-i-an-australian-resident-for-tax-purposes/#.WjTxEHkxX3g

I don't understand your statement to be honest.

 

I believe residency effects you with the ATO. 

 

Centrelink on the other hand will stop your payments when you exit the country from a certain period, e.g. 4-6 weeks, that might not have anything to do with residency, more so the fact that you have to be in the country to receive Centrelink benefits, 6 2 1 half dozen the other if you ask me 555 

[nev]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Nev, if you have retained you residency, i.e. remain an Australia Resident for tax purposes and can prove it, you won't have to wait the two year period for the portability of your old age pension, however if you are deemed a Non Resident/Foreign Resident, same meaning, your toast, go to jail, serve two years before your old age pension can be portable.

 

I do note that some people get up here and boast and say they got it after long absences from Australia, as if it was gift rapped when they applied when they returned, applied and left the country, which I suspect is a load of crap !!!

 

The disability pension is a little different I am told, but I wouldn't know 555

 

I would suggest as others have, ring the international line and discuss with them, as others have had some good feedback, also don't forget, you have the assets test to pass as well, and as I also read you said you have kids here, if they are recognised in Australia, I can't see you claiming that Thailand isn't your abode, i.e. usual place of residency, this all came about with the 183 day rule, e.g. if your out of the country for more than 183 days in any financial year, you are classed as a Non Resident for tax purposes unless you can prove otherwise, which means you have to jump through a lot of hoopla hoops to retain your Australian Residency to be able to get the old age pension portability without having to wait the 2 years.

 

Good luck with your enquiries mate

Thanks mate, I live over here but once a year I go back and work 3 months, I am self employed and just leave the tax side to my accountant and he has never asked about residency, I am Australian and lucky enough to only have to work a short time and spend the rest travelling if they ask, I keep an address in Australia at my Daughter's to keep my foot in the door.

Cheers Nev

[keithpa]

I rang the tax man, told him I should ;not have to have the medicare levy taken out of my military pension as I live in thailand, he said if I dont live in Oz then I should be on a higher tax rate. I hung up

[4MyEgo]

34 minutes ago, nev said:

Thanks mate, I live over here but once a year I go back and work 3 months, I am self employed and just leave the tax side to my accountant and he has never asked about residency, I am Australian and lucky enough to only have to work a short time and spend the rest travelling if they ask, I keep an address in Australia at my Daughter's to keep my foot in the door.

Cheers Nev

Its kind of complicated, but I don't want to be coming across as being negative or trying to burst ones bubble, give it a go, but you should be informed.

 

Below is what they have to establish before they give you portability for the pension :

 

http://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/1/1/10

Edited December 16, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[nev]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Its kind of complicated, but I don't want to be coming across as being negative or trying to burst ones bubble, give it a go, but you should be informed.

 

Below is what they have to establish before they give you portability for the pension :

 

http://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/3/1/1/10

I know mate, I might not even go back to get it if I don't have too, I have an inheritance coming from England so I might end up back their lol.

Pity they stopped portability to England I think you have to do the exact 2 years to obtain in the old dart.

[4MyEgo]

Just now, nev said:

I know mate, I might not even go back to get it if I don't have too, I have an inheritance coming from England so I might end up back their lol.

Pity they stopped portability to England I think you have to do the exact 2 years to obtain in the old dart.

Good luck to you with the inheritance, and yes England has gone down the 2 year path as well from what I have heard