Australian Aged Pension

[sceadugenga]

There's some interesting figures around about how much pensioners from other countries bring when they retire and move to a better life in Australia.

It's about twice what goes out.

[David Walden]

1 hour ago, sceadugenga said:

Yes, more than that, but that's the figures for DSP.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/struggling-pensioners-opt-to-leave-australia-for-a-cheaper-country-20140607-39pui.htmlhttps://www.smh.com.au/national/struggling-pensioners-opt-to-leave-australia-for-a-cheaper-country-20140607-39pui.htmlhttps://www.smh.com.au/national/struggling-pensioners-opt-to-leave-australia-for-a-cheaper-country-20140607-39pui.html

[sceadugenga]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, you said there was hardly any DSP portability now and I said that in 2016 there were 6,500 DSP recipients living overseas with portability.

I also showed figures for the Age pension at that time about 80,000.

[sceadugenga]

6 hours ago, David Walden said:

Not many with DSP portability now.  It all stopped about 1/01/2013.  But if you have lived long time in Thailand on DSP there is a AAT precedent set that will help you if you can't make it back to Aus through hardship or likely marriage failure.  Hmmmm.

See???

I'm replying to this post of yours.

God knows why.

[David Walden]

3 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, you said there was hardly any DSP portability now and I said that in 2016 there were 6,500 DSP recipients living overseas with portability.

I also showed figures for the Age pension at that time about 80,000.

 

3 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

I

Well yes this site is not really about DSP.  That is where much of the confusions exists and this is site is ThaiVisa and is mostly about Thailand and the Australian Aged Pension (AAP).  Portability for the DSP has not been available anywhere since 1/01/2013.  Older long term recipients may succeed in appealing this rule but very few succeed.  If their only long time carer lives in Thailand well that might work.

[sirmud63]

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

 

Well yes this site is not really about DSP.  That is where much of the confusions exists and this is site is ThaiVisa and is mostly about Thailand and the Australian Aged Pension (AAP).  Portability for the DSP has not been available anywhere since 1/01/2013.  Older long term recipients may succeed in appealing this rule but very few succeed.  If their only long time carer lives in Thailand well that might work.

absolute bullsh.t. 

i applied last october for the DSP ,got it no worries. 

then in feb i applied for portability,  six weeks later got it without any problem.

the oz government now pays me full pension to live anywhere in the world ,for as long as i like . 

[totally thaied up]

4 hours ago, David Walden said:

Well yes this site is not really about DSP.  That is where much of the confusions exists and this is site is ThaiVisa and is mostly about Thailand and the Australian Aged Pension (AAP).  Portability for the DSP has not been available anywhere since 1/01/2013.  Older long term recipients may succeed in appealing this rule but very few succeed.  If their only long time carer lives in Thailand well that might work.

Where do you get your information from?

 

DSP portability is hard to get, but it is still possible - I got mine in 2015. 

 

For your information, only .7 to .8 % of the 760,000 people on a DSP have portability. So around 754,000 cannot apply as they do not meet the criteria or do not want to leave Australia. 

 

Read that again - .7 to .8% and 1/8 to 1/4 who do apply, fail.

 

It is one of the hardest payments to get on, and it took me 9 months to get and 35 years of medical records from two different long-term specialists (20 years with both). 

 

This is not the place to write about it as it is an OAP thread but please get your facts straight.  

Let's get this thread back on track, please, but I had to get these facts straight as many people do read this thread, and this may be of help to dispel this myth.

 

For myself, I see the fact of so many people living in Thailand that are going to have the shock of their lives when they understand that to get the OAP, they need to be in Australia two years before the date of application or two years after, just shocking.

 

People need to get educated on this now! I have one friend at the present time that I only just met who is living off the last of his savings. He is 64, has no place to go back in Australia, and he expected just to 'blaze back home', get the OAP and 'Walz' back here a few months later.

 

He does not know what to do now.

 

That lack of education is going to make his life almost impossible and I bet he needed to read this forum a long time back. Lots of good information here but also a lot of myths.

[sceadugenga]

Thanks for the DSP comments, but this thread is about OAP.

 

DavidWalden, you are wrong here, and that's the end of it.

 

Back on to OAP issues please.

[Nemises]

A new Aus Gov website for the Australian Aged. Lots of Pension links.

 

LONG LIVE YOU

Australians are living longer. And that means there’s more life to enjoy. Whatever you want to do in later life, start thinking about it now and use this website to connect with programs that can assist you to be healthy, active, connected and independent

 

https://campaigns.health.gov.au/longliveyou

 

 

[sceadugenga]

Divorce/Assets/Pension article.

 

https://www.intelligentinvestor.com.au/divorce-assets-and-the-pension-1889036

 

I think that the key advice there is this.

 

You should seek professional advice from someone who specialises in income tax, Centrelink, and superannuation strategic advice.

[LosLobo]

2 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

Divorce/Assets/Pension article.

 

https://www.intelligentinvestor.com.au/divorce-assets-and-the-pension-1889036

 

I think that the key advice there is this.

 

You should seek professional advice from someone who specialises in income tax, Centrelink, and superannuation strategic advice.

This post has enough content to stimulate discussion for a while.

 

The divorce could financially benefit the husband in so far as making him eligible for the pension.

 

Maybe the best advice would have been for the divorcing husband to let his wife have the house and him move to Thailand ?

 

Although the responder suggested seeking expert advice he still gave misleading information in the quote.

 

"Secondly under the assets test your husband as a single person can have up to $253,750 in assets as a homeowner, or $456,750 as a non-homeowner, and still receive the full Age Pension."

 

The husband being governed by the post 01 January 2015 legislation, will have any financial assets deemed under the Income Test and may not be eligible for the full pension.

 

https://www.dss.gov.au/seniors/benefits-payments/age-pension

 

[4MyEgo]

On 6/1/2018 at 9:02 PM, sceadugenga said:

Federal election 2016: $800m cost of offshore pensioners

The number of Australians being paid pensions while living overseas has almost tripled in two ­decades, costing taxpayers nearly $800 million a year to maintain.

More than 81,000 age pensioners and 6500 disability support pensioners were living overseas in December, receiving all or part of their Australian pension,

(From The Australian article)

Now that's got to tell the Australian governments that there is something seriously wrong going on in Australia, i.e. its not affordable for pensioners to reside in the "lucky country" any longer, and while they keep their greedy little eyes on maximising how they can increase their salaries/benefits, they look at how to cut the OAP for Xpats who move offshore to find an affordable alternative.

 

What a disgrace, but if you are an immigrant, just arrived or whatever, they throw money at them, in the hope that they will work, get a skill, etc, etc, but why would they want to then a lot of them have 4 wives, and 20 kids, agbah, may left one ! 

[4MyEgo]

On 6/1/2018 at 10:39 PM, totally thaied up said:

From memory, there is between 5,800 to 6,500 with DSP portability (like myself) that are overseas. The figure will be dropping for certain as we all die off, as it is almost impossible to get on now. I cannot see this figure moving upwards ... ever (more likely downward).

 

Around 80,000 OAP  now overseas.

 

All I can see into the future for the OAP is this; time in the country need before applying going up. Instead of two years, it will move to three, then five years (in country) before you can claim for the OAP.

 

Just going to get harder for all

 

Yes Elvis123456 di mention that in an earlier post, but I will go further (dooms day), i.e. the day they stop making it portable, WHAT !!!!!!

 

Yep, wouldn't take much to say that if your out of the country for more than a decent holiday, say 3 months, they will stop your pension and it will recommence again from the date you return, no back payments, and their argument will be that they can not afford to support pensioners overseas as the money was intended to support pensioners in Australia and the money to be spent in Australia, steering right away from the fact that its no longer affordable to live in Australia on an OAP unless you are prepared to eat dog food, woof woof.

[sceadugenga]

I cannot see it happening, we see it from our South East Asian perspective where we know there is some resentment of our lifestyles by Australians but the vast  majority of Age Pensioners living overseas are southern Europeans back in the home countries and they all have kids that vote in key electorates.

Scrapping portability would not be a good move politically.

[4MyEgo]

3 minutes ago, sceadugenga said:

I cannot see it happening, we see it from our South East Asian perspective where we know there is some resentment of our lifestyles by Australians but the vast  majority of Age Pensioners living overseas are southern Europeans back in the home countries and they all have kids that vote in key electorates.

Scrapping portability would not be a good move politically.

I hope your right.

 

Perhaps they would even go as far as consider "Grandfathering" it, so that future OAP get trapped.

[totally thaied up]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I hope your right.

 

Perhaps they would even go as far as consider "Grandfathering" it, so that future OAP get trapped.

 

Yes, I asked that question during my portability interview. I got told 'grand fathering' would come most likely into play for all parties (OAP and Disability). A precedence was sent not long back over a similar issue; I am looking for it now but cannot find the High Court Finding. Maybe someone has it on hand. 

 

I just got told to return home once or twice every five years, get my Medicare card and have a home address in Aussieland. I got told privately after the interview by my assessor too 'to never leave the country' without a permanent home address. I gather; that is all we can do and that is what I do. The OAP is very similar in all respects. Most of my friends here go home once every two years that are on the OAP and personally, think that is a good idea.

[ELVIS123456]

8 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

I cannot see it happening, we see it from our South East Asian perspective where we know there is some resentment of our lifestyles by Australians but the vast  majority of Age Pensioners living overseas are southern Europeans back in the home countries and they all have kids that vote in key electorates.

Scrapping portability would not be a good move politically.

Actually, I do believe that they cannot legally do it.  There is a UN Convention under which Australia pays social welfare payments to those overseas, and Aust has Agreements in place under that Convention with many countries that covers payments under each other's welfare systems (not Thailand).  The bholes in Aust have got away with imposing the max UN Convention rules on portability, such as minimum 10 years and 35 years to get the maximum payments, but IMO they would not be able to cancel the payments to recipients overseas. Any attempt to do so would be immediately challanged at the UN by one of the many international 'social welfare rights' organisations. 

 

Some time ago I read through parts of the UN Convention, and IMO some of the changes made by Aust to the portability rules over the lasy 10-15 years, could be challenged. One in particular, that being forcing people to return to live in Aust and to stay for a minimum of 2 years, may be a step too far under the UN rules. Unfortunately, as with many of these rules and regs, in order to have standing (qualified) to lodge an appeal, one must be directly affected.  Meaning that I cannot appeal because Fred has been denied portability, only Fred can.

 

[4MyEgo]

Here is an interesting article that I read today, it provides statistics from September 2017 (not long ago) and advises that the Australian OAP is the 2nd lowest in the OECD, just behind South Korea, some interesting statistics, and you have to wonder why the bastards want to have a go at the Xpats.

 

Copy, paste, put it in your browser to and hit enter to open.

 

www.yourlifechoices.com.au/calls-to-fix-pension-poverty?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=volume%2018%20issue%20113%20daily%20enews%20wednesday%206%20june&utm_content=volume%2018%20issue%20113%20daily%20enews%20wednesday%206%20june+version+a+cid_7a5f315250d222f9acdaedef77ea3f5c&utm_source=campaign%20monitor&utm_term=fix%20pension%20poverty

[ELVIS123456]

6 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Here is an interesting article that I read today, it provides statistics from September 2017 (not long ago) and advises that the Australian OAP is the 2nd lowest in the OECD, just behind South Korea, some interesting statistics, and you have to wonder why the bastards want to have a go at the Xpats.

Copy, paste, put it in your browser to and hit enter to open.

www.yourlifechoices.com.au/calls-to-fix-pension-poverty?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=volume%2018%20issue%20113%20daily%20enews%20wednesday%206%20june&utm_content=volume%2018%20issue%20113%20daily%20enews%20wednesday%206%20june+version+a+cid_7a5f315250d222f9acdaedef77ea3f5c&utm_source=campaign%20monitor&utm_term=fix%20pension%20poverty

I like the points that they are making, but I do not like their solutions, especially:

*  increase the maximum rate of Commonwealth Rent Assistance to reduce the gap between age pensioners who are home owners and those who are renters

Whilst this sounds good on the surface, this will only encourage those who have lived on welfare and/or blown all their money on alcohol/drugs etc.

This is a disincentive to people to save and get a mortgage and a decent job/career to pay for all that and the family. 

Whilst many end up in that situation (not owning a home/unit) through bad luck and circumstance, the majority do so because they choose to do so.

I have relatives that took that path a long time ago - they made the decision to enjoy themselves instead of studying/working - and now they are whinging about things like this.

No way Jose - the 'gap' is just fine thank you - the problem is how much everything costs - especially Govt stuff and utilities (electric/water/rates/internet/rego/fines etc etc).

I have moved to Qld and there is not one speed camera for 100kms - I spent over $500 back where I was (sh***ole) in 3 months - and no one is dying here in this town.

Number one fix ?  Get rid of 50% of Govt workers - all of them - all levels - they get paid a lot for doing SFA - I know - I was in there for over 20 years.

 

[Nemises]

This is currently doing the rounds on FB in Aus:

 

“Malcolm Turnbull wants to increase the pension age to 70. This will mean that Australia will have the oldest pension age in the developed world.

 

How does Mr Turnbull expect builders, farmers and nurses to work until they’re 70?

 

Australians deserve to be treated better by this government than being asked to work until they’re 70 before receiving the Age Pension.

 

All Australians born after 1 January 1966 will have to wait until they are 70 before being eligible for the Age Pension because of Mr Turnbull.

 

Labor needs your help to stop Turnbull’s plan to increase the pension age to 70. Can you sign this petition calling on the government to drop their unfair plans?”

 

 

[/url]

 

https://www.alp.org.au/pensionbefore70

 

[moojar]

That's one of those sadly amateur social media manipulation attempts both parties engage in - couldn't the Russians teach them a thing or two!  I get the ALP ones in my inbox due to my former union membership. 

 

Besides, it was the Abbott / Hockey toxic 'lifters and leaners' 2014 budget that introduced the measure.  The Libs haven't managed to get the OAP age increase thru the senate yet, but it's still sitting there waiting it's chance.  It will happen when they get the numbers.  Turnbull is hamstrung by his internal party politics and the need to appease the loony right faction, couldn't dump the policy if he wanted to.    

[4MyEgo]

3 hours ago, Gregster said:

This is currently doing the rounds on FB in Aus:

 

“Malcolm Turnbull wants to increase the pension age to 70. This will mean that Australia will have the oldest pension age in the developed world.

 

How does Mr Turnbull expect builders, farmers and nurses to work until they’re 70?

 

Australians deserve to be treated better by this government than being asked to work until they’re 70 before receiving the Age Pension.

 

All Australians born after 1 January 1966 will have to wait until they are 70 before being eligible for the Age Pension because of Mr Turnbull.

 

Labor needs your help to stop Turnbull’s plan to increase the pension age to 70. Can you sign this petition calling on the government to drop their unfair plans?”

 

 

[/url]

 

https://www.alp.org.au/pensionbefore70

 

Thanks for the opportunity, I signed and sent it on its merry way.

 

Can I make a suggestion to you and others reading this, SHARE it on your Facebook as well, add a caption, e.g. Sign the petition and say NO to raising the pension age to 70

 

I have hundreds of friends on Facebook, all but one are under the OAP age, no if they see it, they can spread the word by signing the petition. 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, moojar said:

That's one of those sadly amateur social media manipulation attempts both parties engage in - couldn't the Russians teach them a thing or two!  I get the ALP ones in my inbox due to my former union membership. 

 

Besides, it was the Abbott / Hockey toxic 'lifters and leaners' 2014 budget that introduced the measure.  The Libs haven't managed to get the OAP age increase thru the senate yet, but it's still sitting there waiting it's chance.  It will happen when they get the numbers.  Turnbull is hamstrung by his internal party politics and the need to appease the loony right faction, couldn't dump the policy if he wanted to.    

moojar do your bit if you haven't and sign the petition please, I see it as an opportunity to have a say, whether it falls on deaf ears or not is another thing, but remaining silent will mean, they might get it through, numbers count, also SHARE it on Facebook 555

[ELVIS123456]

On 6/7/2018 at 5:54 PM, 4MyEgo said:

moojar do your bit if you haven't and sign the petition please, I see it as an opportunity to have a say, whether it falls on deaf ears or not is another thing, but remaining silent will mean, they might get it through, numbers count, also SHARE it on Facebook 555

yes guys - we should all 'vote' - the more numbers they get the more they will be able to claim it is right to stop it.

it is unlikely that the libs or labs will ever get a complete majoirty in the senate.

if labor has enough support, they will get the independents to vote with them and continue to reject 70 

 

 

[CARLO BALDASSARRE]

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/pension-rates-payable-people-outside-australia

PENSION RATES OUTSIDE AUSTRALIA RIGHT HERE IN BLACK AND WHITE.............Hope it will help all the myths/speculations ........

                                                                       

 

[BEVUP]

16 minutes ago, CARLO BALDASSARRE said:

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/pension-rates-payable-people-outside-australia

PENSION RATES OUTSIDE AUSTRALIA RIGHT HERE IN BLACK AND WHITE.............Hope it will help all the myths/speculations ........

                                                                       

 

Ok very good 

But the only way to get Portability is to bullshit to them by saying you are somehow going to remain in Auss

 

In my case they may not have the Pension by then but they will certainly know about my Thai wife & son. Will also wander why I spent all my trips overseas in Thailand

 

I don't know why you have to prove you are still going to reside in Auss when they are willing to do this & from what I have seen on TV & in the papers of older women openly up front saying we live overseas & get the pension

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Ok very good 

But the only way to get Portability is to bullshit to them by saying you are somehow going to remain in Auss

 

In my case they may not have the Pension by then but they will certainly know about my Thai wife & son. Will also wander why I spent all my trips overseas in Thailand

 

I don't know why you have to prove you are still going to reside in Auss when they are willing to do this & from what I have seen on TV & in the papers of older women openly up front saying we live overseas & get the pension

BEVUP wouldn't believe everything you read in the papers.

 

Bullshit is the key word, I am 9 years out of getting the pension, i.e. I will have to shift assets at least 5 years prior or purchase a property when I return 2 years earlier to apply for the pension when I turn 67.

 

One has to constantly plan and keep altering or looking for better scenario's, now I have a few, as my wife is 21 years my junior, it will be a single pension either ways, so I am not fussed, now she can either come with me and bring the kids, but I don't like the thought of taking them out of school and putting them into another school in Australia for 2 years as that will disrupt their schooling, friends and activities in Thailand, so what do I do, bite the bullet and say we separated, or go for a full divorce, there are plenty of options, but I will have to work out the best one when the time approaches, the thought of being away from the Mrs (best mate) and kids for 2 years doesn't go down well with me, maybe there can be some leniency, my excuse being I would like to return to Thailand maybe every 3 months for 2 weeks to spend some time with the kids, that's 8 weeks a year away from Australia while waiting for the portability "probation" period, if that fails, the Mrs can always come in the back door to Australia and they pick up on it.

 

I can always say yeh she said she might come back for the kids sake to be next to their dad, or that we have come to an arrangement in the best interest of the kids, or something like that, one has to fine tune the bullshit oy !  and because Centrelink wouldn't provide me with time abroad regularly to be with them, it would be costing Centrelink because she would be on Newstart or the single mothers pension, and the kids would be getting something from the government, family A benefits, etc, etc, all legally done mind you. 

 

But in all honesty, would probably buy a place in the bush just outside of Sydney, maybe parks, Dubbo, Bathurst and sit it out for the 2 years, as purchasing a place would add weight to the application, as would having the family with me, and then there is no bullshit, apart from the fact that I said I was there to stay, but everyone has the right to change their minds, oy !

 

Like me, you probably don't like to bullshit, but let me say this, we all have to wake up sooner or later because these C...s are trying to take what we are entitled to and give it to others who haven't worked 40 years like me and paid hundreds of thousands in $'s in taxes, so wise up old son, and bullshit as much as it takes 555

[Ban Phe Dezza]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

BEVUP wouldn't believe everything you read in the papers.

 

Bullshit is the key word, I am 9 years out of getting the pension, i.e. I will have to shift assets at least 5 years prior or purchase a property when I return 2 years earlier to apply for the pension when I turn 67.

 

One has to constantly plan and keep altering or looking for better scenario's, now I have a few, as my wife is 21 years my junior, it will be a single pension either ways, so I am not fussed, now she can either come with me and bring the kids, but I don't like the thought of taking them out of school and putting them into another school in Australia for 2 years as that will disrupt their schooling, friends and activities in Thailand, so what do I do, bite the bullet and say we separated, or go for a full divorce, there are plenty of options, but I will have to work out the best one when the time approaches, the thought of being away from the Mrs (best mate) and kids for 2 years doesn't go down well with me, maybe there can be some leniency, my excuse being I would like to return to Thailand maybe every 3 months for 2 weeks to spend some time with the kids, that's 8 weeks a year away from Australia while waiting for the portability "probation" period, if that fails, the Mrs can always come in the back door to Australia and they pick up on it.

 

I can always say yeh she said she might come back for the kids sake to be next to their dad, or that we have come to an arrangement in the best interest of the kids, or something like that, one has to fine tune the bullshit oy !  and because Centrelink wouldn't provide me with time abroad regularly to be with them, it would be costing Centrelink because she would be on Newstart or the single mothers pension, and the kids would be getting something from the government, family A benefits, etc, etc, all legally done mind you. 

 

But in all honesty, would probably buy a place in the bush just outside of Sydney, maybe parks, Dubbo, Bathurst and sit it out for the 2 years, as purchasing a place would add weight to the application, as would having the family with me, and then there is no bullshit, apart from the fact that I said I was there to stay, but everyone has the right to change their minds, oy !

 

Like me, you probably don't like to bullshit, but let me say this, we all have to wake up sooner or later because these C...s are trying to take what we are entitled to and give it to others who haven't worked 40 years like me and paid hundreds of thousands in $'s in taxes, so wise up old son, and bullshit as much as it takes 555

Actually you will not get the single rate, You would get the Married Rate, However your wife will not get any Pension at all. Perhaps a good idea to go Back two years before, go on the dole ECt and apply for the Pension 3 or four months before you turn 67. this is presuming they will not move the Goal post by then.

return to Thailand maybe every 3 months for 2 weeks to spend some time with the kids  If this was to happen Centrelink would extend the period of your time absent and simply extend the period  and Yes to those doubters Immigration and Centrelink computers are linked.

Up to you if you consider what i have written as B S or worth checking Your call mate 

[4MyEgo]

57 minutes ago, Ban Phe Dezza said:

Actually you will not get the single rate, You would get the Married Rate, However your wife will not get any Pension at all. Perhaps a good idea to go Back two years before, go on the dole ECt and apply for the Pension 3 or four months before you turn 67. this is presuming they will not move the Goal post by then.

return to Thailand maybe every 3 months for 2 weeks to spend some time with the kids  If this was to happen Centrelink would extend the period of your time absent and simply extend the period  and Yes to those doubters Immigration and Centrelink computers are linked.

Up to you if you consider what i have written as B S or worth checking Your call mate 

Appreciate the heads up mate, and all advise is to be looked into of course and like you say, hopefully they don't move the goal posts in that time.

 

The going back to Thailand part is the cruncher, I mean if they extended the period absent i.e. the 2 weeks every 3 months, that would mean an extra 16 weeks or 4 months on the 2 years, which I could think I could manage, tough call though, but from what I have heard, they only allow you a short absence every year, I think its up to 4 weeks for holidays without adding that to the 2 year prison term, although that would have to be confirmed.

 

As for them being linked up, well aware of that.

 

Cheers

[Nemises]

 

 

But in all honesty, would probably buy a place in the bush just outside of Sydney, maybe parks, Dubbo, Bathurst and sit it out for the 2 years, as purchasing a place would add weight to the application,

 

 

Yes, but when you sell your Aus house to return to Thailand your pension will be reduced/cancelled because you will exceed the OAP assets/deemed income test.