Sleeping Arangements

[tutsiwarrior]

as I've said...I now have suitable sleeping arrangments for every one. I want to bellow in english 'SPREAD OUT!!!' However, as you have indicated economic necessity has instilled a huddling mentality. There is presently one bedroom unused as two of the younger kids prefer the 'floor in front of the TV' arrangement. Now, there may be other considerations...there is the 'ghost' thing where no amount of extra space will compell a frightened kid to sleep in his/her own bed. I want to gather them up and put them to bed like infants but this would be 'inappropriate' for a number of reasons.

I find that after a certain age thai parents expect kids to fend fer themselves. I intrude as a falang when I want them to sleep happily just like enabling them with the offer of going to university...it don't go down well in a basic, agricultural mielieu...

what'sa falang to do???

[sbk]

Well, I agree, alot of it does have to do with economic necessity. My inlaws had a big enough house that my husband had his own room, as did his sister. Tiny rooms, but they slept in their own space. My inlaws now have their 13 year old grandson staying with them and he has his own room. he does not sleep with his grandparents.

So, at least what I have seen, if they have the space, they use it

[tutsiwarrior]

(something I tried to add)

there is a girl, 12 y.o. and very strong and athletic...she could stand her ground against any bully in the schoolyard (as I said to the wife 'Youie is deadly when annoyed...' the wife grunted and nodded in typical thai understatement). She is the biggest chickenshit of the lot when sleeping....you couldn't drag her to her own bed. She needs to huddle close to someone when sleeping. It is the typical 'ghost' scenario...

I think that thai parents attempt to scare their children into submission with ghost stories. I admit that I have done the same with my niece in California when she misbehaved...conjured up a scene with an ugly man in a dirty pickup truck and said 'if you annoy yer parents the ugly man comes and puts you into the back and you never see them again...'. It worked and the kid settled down, but whattan asshol_e adults came become...scared the shit out of her...she is now a beautiful 30 y.o. woman and still has nightmares about ugly men in dirty pickups...

(boooo, hissss...tutsi is an asshol_e )

Edited January 19, 2008 by tutsiwarrior

[sbk]

Sorry, no boo hiss from me. My parents didn't do that, but alot of them do. Our cook is terrified of tokays for that very reason. And she is nearly 30.

Its tough to teach them to be independent but it is the biggest favor you will ever do for your child. Give them the skills and abilities to grow into themselves and be able to take care of themselves.

[tutsiwarrior]

as a westerner, the concept of independence for children is important...not so so much for thailand. The family unit is what is important...indeed, if one is poor elderly and infirm the extended family is all that you can turn to. But when you apply basic logic, why would one not try to strenghthen the unit??...given the opportunity, of course.

My efforts have been welcomed as a falang who is jai dii. The wife knows who I am and the agreement that we had when we decided to marry was that 'you look after me and I look after you and your family'. The mechanics of making the arrangement work is never considered. As I have said, a western effort to promote the kids' independence many times is viewd as intrusive. My wife useta pack her little brother on her back to go to school...for a westerner that is in storybooks. How could one presume to know how a poor asian thinks when they were raised in an affluent Los Angeles suburb?

However, my concern has not gone unappreciated. I have (for the present) resolved a dispute that had my MiL move out and now she has come back. The kids were missing her and that was apparent when she said that she had come to stay. Her and the wife are two proud and vain asian women...lord help the falang that intereferes in that kind of dispute.

The kids are mostly girls and it is difficult to have them understand that they are not a male appendage. The wife is in charge and she is conservative and traditional. If you think that progressive sleeping arrangements are radical try it on when it comes to a suggestion that the ones that are good in school be nurtured for university! Heaven forbid! I say to the wife, what if we got at least one of the kids coming back to town after graduating and what if they got a good job in a bank? The wife ain't dumb and knows what that represents. However, she comes from a culture of poverty and the feasability is difficult to grasp.

ever onward to victory or whatever that represents in rural Thailand...

[Tatler]

nip in the bud now....your wife may be right about the way things are done in Thailand but shes not in Thailand. As a foriegner in Thailand i find im often expected to adopt or at least accept Thai ways which i do .

Regardless of country, babies sleeping in their parents beds are a real passion killer

Our daughter was in her cot from day 1 next to my side of the bed. It was easier that way as I was breastfeeding so all I needed to do was stand and pick her up to feed and then put her back down when she was finished. I stopped breastfeeding at 3 months so then we moved her cot into her own room next to us. That is all she knows and she has no problem sleeping on her own in her own room. Wven when she started walking an found out how to climb out of her cot, she was learnt to stay in her room (although we did have to teach her that). Our daughter has always had a 5.30pm bed time and 4 years on, she usually crashes between then and 6pm and will sleep through the night until 5am which is the time we get up.

We're lucky that she is a very confident and INDEPENDENT child and she has no problem sleeping in the dark in her own bed (her own queen size bed fit for a princess) and room unlike her uncle (my husbands half brother) who is 8 or 9, and is scared of his own shadow His mother is chinese-indo so also wanted her baby to sleep with them. Needless to say, he won't sleep in his own room or by himself, scared of the dark and basically everything else. My father-inlaw realises they made a HUGE mistake with having him sleep with them since he was born.

To the OP, do yourself, wife and child a favour - AND get your baby used to its own room AS SOON AS POSSIBLE because the longer you leave it, the harder it will be to get him used to sleeping by himself.

Must be difficult to have perfect children?? how do you cope?? are you children ever naughty?? can they express themself to you?? some people have all the luck.......

[neion2000]

My wife is Thai and I am Scottish, we live in Edinburgh and have a 4 month old son. My wife wants our son to sleep in our bed but I said no and she isn't happy, it seems that in Thailnd it is normal for the baby to sleep with the parents. I compromised and told her the cot can stay in our room until he is 6 months old then he will be in his own room, I wanted the cot in the nursery straight away, I don't think it's healthy for a baby to sleep in the same room never mind the same bed as the parents.

Am I being selfish and unfair?

It's been awhile since this was posted, did the plan go your way?

I was in a similar situation with my Thai girlfriend, but it was the baby brother that she wanted to sleep in the same bed, which we argued about all the time.. The reason for the little brother staying with us, was because the mother and father were working on new homes in Bangkok, and needed the daughter to watch the baby, which I did not mind at first, cuz it kept her busy, which allowed me to do my own thing, while she watched him..

Anyway..I made his little crying ass sleep on the floor... That sucked as well, cuz she was a deep sleeper, and when he started crying (for milk), I'd be the one that would find his bottle and hand it to him, which at times, there was no more, and I'd have to make more... When he slept on the bed, it was easier just to flip over and hand him his bottle, so he ended back on the bed, up until he started to crawl... This poor little bastard would fall off out of the bed every night, which made it worse, cuz she now wanted him to sleep in between us for he can't fall out... and to make situation even more screwed up, his diaper would come off during the night, and I'd wake up with piss all over my back and all over the bed..

So we continued to fight about that, to the point that she packed up and was about to leave.. I was happy, I opened the door and said "BYE" she never left... so, for the baby's safety, he was back on the floor, then the mother finally came and got him... Things went back to normal..

I think that's how some Thai's raise their children.. They allow them to sleep in the same bed, from the day they're born, from what I saw, for the rest of their lives or move out... I've stayed at her home village, there is like 5 families with separate bamboo homes, all related, all have kids, all sleep together.. Sometimes the sisters sleep together under one mosquito net, then you have the Grandmother and Grandfather under another net, with one of the grandkids, the mother and father sleep under another net with the baby.. That's how the roll in her family..

Just to add... At her home, the babies don't wear diapers, the shit and piss everywhere.. The boys, it looks like , they walk around a majority of the time with just a t-shirt on up until school age.. Not sure the reason for this... I seen one of the adults remove one of the kids short/underwear, cuz she said it was too hot outside (raw:n sounds like LAWN) = Hot .......

[Boo]

At her home, the babies don't wear diapers, the shit and piss everywhere

yeah the mil & old aunts thought I was evil when we took our son to visit last year, he was only 3 months & i wouldn't let them remove his nappy all day, I got all kinds of evils from them about it but I didn't want him pissing all over himself & then getting bitten by mossies. A couple of times I went out & left him for a few minutes & they would whip his nappy off, then he would piss & I would find him lying in a wet baby grow, so I had to do the bad daughter in law routine & put my foot down about it. I dont mind some nappy off time but not all bloody day.!!

[torrenova]

I see that in the village as well. The babies and some older children just not wearing anything downstairs. Some of the grandparents don't wear underwear either so maybe they never have ?

[simon43]

I'm clearly very much in the minority in this thread because my children always slept in the same bed as me and my wife. That also applies before I even came to Thailand and was married to an English woman. It seemed totally natural for our firstborn to sleep between us from the day of her birth. We neither squashed her or suffocated her.

She moved into a separate cot (in the same room) when she was about 2 years old, primarily because toddlers have a habit of kicking and turning sideways when they sleep, and me and my wife were falling out of bed

Her presence didn't seem to have a problem with passion - there are other rooms in our house and I went on to have 2 more children with my ex - both who were also brought up to share their parents' bed. This doesn't seem to have affected their development - they are now 6/8/10 years old, bright and happy and not at all clingy with their mother.

When I came to Thailand and remarried, it was therefore natural for me to share our bed with our newborn son. My wife's young daughter also snuggles up with her baby brother and my wife some times - with little room left for me in the bed

I can't really understand what all the fuss is about - some views in this thread sound almost Victorian in their stance. As to the possible suggestion that it is 'un-natural' for an adult man to sleep with his young children, I fear that the PC brigade has scared many fathers away from developing a close and loving relationship with their kids...

Simon

[tutsiwarrior]

I'm clearly very much in the minority in this thread because my children always slept in the same bed as me and my wife. That also applies before I even came to Thailand and was married to an English woman. It seemed totally natural for our firstborn to sleep between us from the day of her birth. We neither squashed her or suffocated her.

She moved into a separate cot (in the same room) when she was about 2 years old, primarily because toddlers have a habit of kicking and turning sideways when they sleep, and me and my wife were falling out of bed

Her presence didn't seem to have a problem with passion - there are other rooms in our house and I went on to have 2 more children with my ex - both who were also brought up to share their parents' bed. This doesn't seem to have affected their development - they are now 6/8/10 years old, bright and happy and not at all clingy with their mother.

When I came to Thailand and remarried, it was therefore natural for me to share our bed with our newborn son. My wife's young daughter also snuggles up with her baby brother and my wife some times - with little room left for me in the bed

I can't really understand what all the fuss is about - some views in this thread sound almost Victorian in their stance. As to the possible suggestion that it is 'un-natural' for an adult man to sleep with his young children, I fear that the PC brigade has scared many fathers away from developing a close and loving relationship with their kids...

Simon

with my ex in the UK our son slept with us until we separated when he was 4...now, when I go to visit the ex clears off and leaves us alone to hang out and he still likes to sleep with me on occasion and he'll be 14 in August. I can only visit twice per year and he misses his dad, I guess.

so, I don't mind sleeping with children if there's enough space...so it's easy for me to go with the flow when in Thailand. Once I was at home unemployed for 18 months and the wife had expropriated her brother's infant daughter and she slept with us the entire time (impressed the womenfolk with my baby handling skills )...the step daughter had to clear off outta the bed but she would always sneak in if there was an opportunity. The niece is now 6 y.o. and is a delight if a bit clinging when I'm at home on leave...she knows that I'm not gonna be around for long and shadows me. I don't mind except when it's time to go back to work then I haveta sneak off when she's either sleeping or back at her parents' house...it's heartbreaking as when she discovers that I'm missing she goes ballistic. When I'm around she either sleeps with us or her cousins...she still sleeps with the wife a lot when I'm gone.

[billd766]

I am 63 and my Thai wife is 42.

Our son is now 3 1/2 and has always slept on the floor upstairs in front of the TV with his mum while I sleep in a bed.

One reason are that I have a bad back and though I can sleep on the floor it is only for an hour or so after which if I don't get up it will cause me a lot of pain.

Another reason is that he is a night time roamer around the bed and on the couple of ocaissions he has slept with me on the bed he still roams and crawls over me to get to the other side so in the end I take him back and put him next to mum.

I generally go to bed a bit later than the family and I get up around 6 am so if I sleep in the bedroom I wont disturb them.

When the family come to visit there are sometimes 4 or 4 extra people sleeping on the floor.

My MIL has been staying with us since December and sometimes she will sleep in the small house, sometimes in a bedroom and sometimes on the floor.

In our house there has never been a problem about who sleeps where and if you nedd time together there is always a way.

[Brigante7]

My wife is Thai and I am Scottish, we live in Edinburgh and have a 4 month old son. My wife wants our son to sleep in our bed but I said no and she isn't happy, it seems that in Thailnd it is normal for the baby to sleep with the parents. I compromised and told her the cot can stay in our room until he is 6 months old then he will be in his own room, I wanted the cot in the nursery straight away, I don't think it's healthy for a baby to sleep in the same room never mind the same bed as the parents.

Am I being selfish and unfair?

Update:

Baby is now 6 1/2 months and is now in his own room (took 2 weeks of convincing the wife) and everything is great. I'm glad I stuck to my guns and so is my wife it seems.

[mikethevigoman]

My wife is Thai and I am Scottish, we live in Edinburgh and have a 4 month old son. My wife wants our son to sleep in our bed but I said no and she isn't happy, it seems that in Thailnd it is normal for the baby to sleep with the parents. I compromised and told her the cot can stay in our room until he is 6 months old then he will be in his own room, I wanted the cot in the nursery straight away, I don't think it's healthy for a baby to sleep in the same room never mind the same bed as the parents.

Am I being selfish and unfair?

Im sorry i disagree with fun2fun,my wife and i have shared our bed ( well 2 double beds pushed together ) with our daughter for 5 years,i love waking in the morning and shes smiling waiting to get up with us,its a great bonding, for me personally growing up being the eldest of 10 and not being close to any of them is a complete contrast,.we used to get locked in the room whilst our parents went down the pub !,.no for me the thai way is best and they put our family ties to shame,there is plenty of time for socialising with the wife apart from at bedtime

[mikethevigoman]

I heard recently of a Thai-farang couple who haven't had sex for three years, since the baby was born. Maybe the baby sleeps between them?

yeah, thats not healthy for the baby, and certainly not healthy for the married couple.

put your foot down mate, dont let it happen

I heard recently of a Thai-farang couple who haven't had sex for three years, since the baby was born. Maybe the baby sleeps between them? .........Sorry i wont have it that that is the reason,they have other problems guaranteed !

[torrenova]

Whilst it may not be the only reason, I think that having a kid in the bed must take away some of the opportunity for sex. Our baby is 8 months and sleeps in her cot but will jump in the bed given half a chance after she wakes up in the morning. Its nice for all 3 of us but it is controlled.

I mean, you're not going to have sex with the kid there are you ? Even if you do, you're limited in that there is a small body mass you don't want to squash or have wake up. I can't see how having anyone else in your bed doesn't take away some of the opportunity and that may be enough to stop it happening at all.

[ClaytonSeymour]

My wife is Thai and I am Scottish, we live in Edinburgh and have a 4 month old son. My wife wants our son to sleep in our bed but I said no and she isn't happy, it seems that in Thailnd it is normal for the baby to sleep with the parents. I compromised and told her the cot can stay in our room until he is 6 months old then he will be in his own room, I wanted the cot in the nursery straight away, I don't think it's healthy for a baby to sleep in the same room never mind the same bed as the parents.

Am I being selfish and unfair? No. Sometimes you have to put your foot down.

[ClaytonSeymour]

My wife is Thai and I am Scottish, we live in Edinburgh and have a 4 month old son. My wife wants our son to sleep in our bed but I said no and she isn't happy, it seems that in Thailnd it is normal for the baby to sleep with the parents. I compromised and told her the cot can stay in our room until he is 6 months old then he will be in his own room, I wanted the cot in the nursery straight away, I don't think it's healthy for a baby to sleep in the same room never mind the same bed as the parents.

Am I being selfish and unfair?

Update:

Baby is now 6 1/2 months and is now in his own room (took 2 weeks of convincing the wife) and everything is great. I'm glad I stuck to my guns and so is my wife it seems. As I've just said - there are times when you have to put your foot down.

[jaidee1]

My wife is Thai and I am Scottish, we live in Edinburgh and have a 4 month old son. My wife wants our son to sleep in our bed but I said no and she isn't happy, it seems that in Thailnd it is normal for the baby to sleep with the parents. I compromised and told her the cot can stay in our room until he is 6 months old then he will be in his own room, I wanted the cot in the nursery straight away, I don't think it's healthy for a baby to sleep in the same room never mind the same bed as the parents.

Am I being selfish and unfair?

Im sorry i disagree with fun2fun,my wife and i have shared our bed ( well 2 double beds pushed together ) with our daughter for 5 years,i love waking in the morning and shes smiling waiting to get up with us,its a great bonding, for me personally growing up being the eldest of 10 and not being close to any of them is a complete contrast,.we used to get locked in the room whilst our parents went down the pub !,.no for me the thai way is best and they put our family ties to shame,there is plenty of time for socialising with the wife apart from at bedtime

I agree with MTV, our daughter is 19 months old & sleeps in bed with us. I wouldn't have it any other way. Waking up to your daughter smacking u in the face & giggling is such a nice feeling + I feel that I am bonding with her more.

She also doesn't wear nappies, only if we go out & at night.

My brother’s son in the UK is nearly 3 years old & not potty trained. My daughter is 19 months old, she is potty trained already, she takes her nappy off to use the potty & will even wake up during the night & use her potty.

I like Thai style, it works for me.