Penang To Impose Stricter Rules When Issuing Tourist Visas

[jstumbo]

There was just a post to another thread that the Penang consulate is actually calling the airlines and hotels to verify e-tickets.

I feel that I should also offer a word of warning to those speaking on the other thread about giving the Air ticket out of thailand to your home country for the tourist visa here in penang, I have seen many people saying that they would "create" the e-ticket and show the consul this as their way of getting over the requirement of needing to see air tickets from thailand to the home country. There were 32 people refused visa's on tuesday who had given the copies of e-tickets to the consulate together with the hotel vouchers, the consulate then phoned the airline/agencies and asked them if the person named on the ticket was actualy traveling. in most cases it was a simple case of the airline/agency saying "no, sorry, we dont have record of that person traveling"! Therefore, i would suggest that if you are going to penang for the tourist visa then do have a verifiable ticket from thailand available. Same for the hotel accomodation vouchers, the consul also checked these if the airline verified the travel arrangements.

[ovenman]

There was just a post to another thread that the Penang consulate is actually calling the airlines and hotels to verify e-tickets.

Hard to believe that the consulate staffers don't have better ways that they could be spending their time but that said, again I ask the question: any board members out there who still believe that the Thai consulate in Penang has a genuine desire to issue a tourist visa to anybody?

[tropo]

There was just a post to another thread that the Penang consulate is actually calling the airlines and hotels to verify e-tickets.

I feel that I should also offer a word of warning to those speaking on the other thread about giving the Air ticket out of thailand to your home country for the tourist visa here in penang, I have seen many people saying that they would "create" the e-ticket and show the consul this as their way of getting over the requirement of needing to see air tickets from thailand to the home country. There were 32 people refused visa's on tuesday who had given the copies of e-tickets to the consulate together with the hotel vouchers, the consulate then phoned the airline/agencies and asked them if the person named on the ticket was actualy traveling. in most cases it was a simple case of the airline/agency saying "no, sorry, we dont have record of that person traveling"! Therefore, i would suggest that if you are going to penang for the tourist visa then do have a verifiable ticket from thailand available. Same for the hotel accomodation vouchers, the consul also checked these if the airline verified the travel arrangements.

Would an airline give out personal information about a booking to a 3rd party? I wouldn't have thought so.

[jstumbo]

Would an airline give out personal information about a booking to a 3rd party? I wouldn't have thought so.

That is what I thought as well. Then I thought how the airlines tell the US government who is on flights when they are arriving and collect information on who is on the plane when it leaves. Also we are talking about a government agency in Thailand and privacy. I doubt they have the same rules that might appy in the US and the West.

[samran]

Would an airline give out personal information about a booking to a 3rd party? I wouldn't have thought so.

That is what I thought as well. Then I thought how the airlines tell the US government who is on flights when they are arriving and collect information on who is on the plane when it leaves. Also we are talking about a government agency in Thailand and privacy. I doubt they have the same rules that might appy in the US and the West.

you don't even have to call. The IT firms which provide the systems for airlines to issue tickets (eg. Amadeus, Gallileo or Abacus) all have websites that you can check your trip details on. All you need is the PNR or Passanger Name Reference (or something silly like that) which comes with a ticket of every type. For instance, one (amadeus?) site www.checkmytrip.com allows you to check a tickets bonafides with as little as the booking reference number and a surname.

[Bertil]

Amadeus:

https://www.checkmytrip.com

Galileo (Travelport):

https://www.viewtrip.com

Sabre / Abacus:

https://www.virtuallythere.com

Worldspan (Travelport):

https://mytripandmore.com

[wilko]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

They want to get rid of all the sex tourists.

That is nonsense...there's no evidence to support that old and jaded theory....

[sriracha john]

The airline reservation verification can be accomplished as previously shown, but what about the hotel reservations? As a tourist visa is good for up to 90 days, are they going to call every Somchai Guesthouse in the boondocks of Nan (with a local number which more often than not, goes unanswered) that a person lists on their application? I can imagine some of the more well-traveled visitors having an itinerary of at least 20 or so different stops in a 90 day journey.

And they're going to do this with EVERY tourist visa application? Good luck to them with that.

[LivinLOS]

But your problems will be over soon - as soon as you get to the magic 50. It's the younger guys who have no valid reason to be here - other than they like it here - that I don't understand. 30-day stamps, border runs, tourist visas and extensions, loop-holes being closed... what a way to live! Thailand will still be here when they're 50 - why not earn some real money back home and then come back at age 50 with some solid finances?

But why does it need to take until your 50..

I have solid finances.. I have no need or desire to work.. So why wait until 50 ??

BTW I am here on a non imm.. I have been for the last 3 or 4 years now.. But that is no more a legit visa than tourist visa's, its obtained because some places dont apply the actual rules and are easy.

[zeusbheld]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

They want to get rid of all the sex tourists.

That is nonsense...there's no evidence to support that old and jaded theory....

not to mention that this'd be a horribly inefficient way of doing that, even by Thai standards.

[torrenova]

If so many people here have issues with long stay people "pretending" to be tourists (prey tell me what they really are then) I suggest they put forward proposals how peopl eunder 50 who have retired may remain in Thailand without jumping through so many stupid hoops.

Also, when it comes to working out how much a person needs to live here (single 65k or 800k, married 40k and tax paid) then can they explain why no account is taken of whether a person owns property or has to pay rent ? Surely that is a very pertinent question ?

[Dupont]

If so many people here have issues with long stay people "pretending" to be tourists (prey tell me what they really are then) I suggest they put forward proposals how peopl eunder 50 who have retired may remain in Thailand without jumping through so many stupid hoops.

Also, when it comes to working out how much a person needs to live here (single 65k or 800k, married 40k and tax paid) then can they explain why no account is taken of whether a person owns property or has to pay rent ? Surely that is a very pertinent question ?

The proposals are, check out existing visas that you are eligable and apply for one. If you are not eligable, you are obviously very rich, so spend some of your time in another country. Why is it that you whingers have the ingenuity to get yourselves to thailand, work out how to abuse the system, yet don't have the wherewithall to make it from Thailand to Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Phillipines, Vietnam, China etc?

They are not stupid hoops, they are merely clearing up an enormous mess created by wholesale abuse of the regs. and tax avoidance.

Pehaps you could tell us why a rule shouldn't be enforced because if causes minor diffiiculty to one or two genuine cases yet seeks to stop the rot of the thousands that work, phillander and scam their way through life in thailand, never seeking to put anything back into the country by way of tax etc.

Anyway, its not us you need to convince, its the Thais

[tropo]

The proposals are, check out existing visas that you are eligable and apply for one. If you are not eligable, you are obviously very rich, so spend some of your time in another country. Why is it that you whingers have the ingenuity to get yourselves to thailand, work out how to abuse the system, yet don't have the wherewithall to make it from Thailand to Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Phillipines, Vietnam, China etc?

Yet another person upset about long-stay tourists. Can't you guys give it a break? - we're well aware of your problems by now.

I don't suppose you realise this is a thread about tourist visa applications done in Penang. That's in Malaysia, so obviously we tourist visa applicants travel.

[dbrenn]

The proposals are, check out existing visas that you are eligable and apply for one. If you are not eligable, you are obviously very rich, so spend some of your time in another country. Why is it that you whingers have the ingenuity to get yourselves to thailand, work out how to abuse the system, yet don't have the wherewithall to make it from Thailand to Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Phillipines, Vietnam, China etc?

Yet another person upset about long-stay tourists. Can't you guys give it a break? - we're well aware of your problems by now.

I don't suppose you realise this is a thread about tourist visa applications done in Penang. That's in Malaysia, so obviously we tourist visa applicants travel.

Give what a break? Give distaste for telling lies to the authorities and breaking the law a break? Maybe I am missing something here, but the definition of a tourist is one who travels and temporarily stays in a country for the purposes of tourism, i.e. sighseeing or visiting friends. Can't see why all these people here are complaining that they are suddenly no longer able to get recurring tourist visas to stay here ad infinitum, that they are no longer allowed to exploit loop holes in the rules and short cut the proper channels of taking up residence in Thailand. All we hear is that the rules are too onerous in preventing these 'tourists' from living and / or working here illegally. People make false declarations to Thai Embassies and to border control regards true purpose of stay are breaking the law, plain and simple.

Where else in the world could anyone get away with that? Good on Thailand for enforcing the rules.

[Jingthing]

Where else in the world could anyone get away with that? Good on Thailand for enforcing the rules

Argentina

Peru

Brazil

Mexico

Philippines

India

Indonesia

Cambodia

Nicaragua

(many others I am sure)

I see nothing wrong with people trying to live here as long as they can on whatever visa they are able to get. When their luck, and/or the hospitality of Thailand runs out, then it is time to go. Don't bother comparing Thailand to USA or Europe.

Edited February 11, 2008 by Jingthing

[samran]

Where else in the world could anyone get away with that? Good on Thailand for enforcing the rules

oi - dbrenn. Just because you followed the rules, stayed legal, and bothered to make your way all the way to citizenship, doesn't mean you should get uppity. I mean how dare you???

Peru

Brazil

Mexico

Philippines

India

Indonesia

Cambodia

Nicaragua

(many others I am sure)

All top of the line countries I'm sure. Desperate in most cases to stop their own people pissing off elsewhere. If you can't keep your own people, you'll of course lower your standards to get people - anyone - stay there.

Don't bother comparing Thailand to USA or Europe.

I always find this a rather self serving argument. You want your country to develop, you look towards worlds best standard. That includes enforcing proper immigration rules.

[bangkokgas]

Bangkokgas, I always thought that the Japanese and Koreans get 90 days on arrival/no need for a visa? Can't they renew it?

onny, no, 30 days visa exempt!

[bangkokgas]

This thread pretty much boils down to two factions...the legal and the worried.

As a long time legally employed journalist here in Asia (Thailand included) I can tell you that the government is embarrased by the 'sex tourism' tag. There are plans to eject/eliminate/refuse the typical farang who comes here with little money and lives off the back of poor girls from up country who work in bars.

Here is phase one http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=125749

You might like to check this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_tourism

The tourist authority want to dump the sex tourist country tag as does the Thai government.

It ain't rocket science to see the image the country portrays through video shot in Patpong, South Pattaya and Patong.

There are quite a few who have posted and who are legally entitled to get a proper visa.

Most of the hits are from the worried.

In this global internet world it is hard to escape reality,

Enjoy Vientienne and Savanakhet while you can but take my advice. If you can marry a Thai

You surpass yourself - another abosultely usless post that has no bearing or help to the original thread. One bored person you must be.

[tropo]

Give what a break?

Give posting on this thread a break. All we need is current information about tourist visas.

Edited February 11, 2008 by tropo

[JetsetBkk]

why not earn some real money back home and then come back at age 50 with some solid finances?

But why does it need to take until your 50..

I quoted 50 because that's the current limit. You need to ask immigration why that's the magic number.

[LivinLOS]

In the full post you said (in full this time)..

It's the younger guys who have no valid reason to be here - other than they like it here - that I don't understand. 30-day stamps, border runs, tourist visas and extensions, loop-holes being closed... what a way to live! Thailand will still be here when they're 50 - why not earn some real money back home and then come back at age 50 with some solid finances?

You imply we are all ducking and diving, and lacking 'real money' and we ought to go and make some..

Whats real money ?? 1 mil US.. 3 mil US.. 5 mil US... At what point does this money become 'real' ??

I am under 50, I have no need to work or do anything to Thailand other than pay money out.. I use whatever visa's they give and advise me to get.

Also what 'valid reason' to the over 50's have ?? Other than 'liking it here' ??

Edited February 12, 2008 by LivinLOS

[mel2surf]

Many of us seem to be in a similar situation.We have the funds to stay longer term,play by all the rules,don't scam or scheme,pay money IN to the economy,and yet some people think they're somehow more entitled than us because they have a one year visa? What a crock!

If you are scheming and scamming,working without a WP,etc. then I'm all for a crackdown,but honestly,

what is so "abusive" about staying on tourist visas.We are ALL foreigners,and not exactly cherished here.

We should be helpin each other out.I too like to keep updated on the everchanging situation with visas,and appreciate others

experiences/insights.It's what this site is all about.

[kopite]

Many of us seem to be in a similar situation.We have the funds to stay longer term,play by all the rules,don't scam or scheme,pay money IN to the economy,and yet some people think they're somehow more entitled than us because they have a one year visa? What a crock!

If you are scheming and scamming,working without a WP,etc. then I'm all for a crackdown,but honestly,

what is so "abusive" about staying on tourist visas.We are ALL foreigners,and not exactly cherished here.

We should be helpin each other out.I too like to keep updated on the everchanging situation with visas,and appreciate others

experiences/insights.It's what this site is all about.

no! your the same as me, not a true farang. you may have tattoo's (gasp), live in pattaya (gasp), do visa runs (gasp) and are not part of the expat elite.

i wish i was an old man in thailand. visas would be so easy . i wish i was a true farang.

[JetsetBkk]

In the full post you said (in full this time)..

It's the younger guys who have no valid reason to be here - other than they like it here - that I don't understand. 30-day stamps, border runs, tourist visas and extensions, loop-holes being closed... what a way to live! Thailand will still be here when they're 50 - why not earn some real money back home and then come back at age 50 with some solid finances?

You imply we are all ducking and diving, and lacking 'real money' and we ought to go and make some..

Well, I wasn't implying it and didn't say it, but maybe that's the way you think most people regard you. What I was saying was that I couldn't live with so much insecurity - visa runs being limited, and now tourist visas being scrutinised. As I said "what a way to live!".

Whats real money ?? 1 mil US.. 3 mil US.. 5 mil US... At what point does this money become 'real' ??

I am under 50, I have no need to work or do anything to Thailand other than pay money out.. I use whatever visa's they give and advise me to get.

Congratulations for having enough dosh to stay here. But I couldn't live with the "whatever visas they give" approach. I want something more concrete.

Also what 'valid reason' to the over 50's have ?? Other than 'liking it here' ??

My valid reason for a one year visa is "retirement". I didn't make up the rules - immigration did.

[junkofdavid2]

why not earn some real money back home and then come back at age 50 with some solid finances?

But why does it need to take until your 50..

I quoted 50 because that's the current limit. You need to ask immigration why that's the magic number.

They probably believe that at 50 and above ('retirement' age), you are less likely to compete for jobs against younger working Thais, and that therefore, the money you spend here is brought INTO the country and not earned in the country.

[LivinLOS]

Congratulations for having enough dosh to stay here. But I couldn't live with the "whatever visas they give" approach. I want something more concrete.

So you have PR or citizenship then ?? I am guessing not.. you have to annually be aware of ever changing and increasing retirement options, the constant threat of a changed visa situation, or even getting an illness or terminal disease that may preclude them letting you stay.. What a way to live especially being old..

My valid reason for a one year visa is "retirement". I didn't make up the rules - immigration did.

And mine if for visiting friends and family.. If that changes in the future I may investigate investment opportunities.. or.. or.. or..

One reason is no more 'valid' than another, if they issue a visa its deemed valid. Makes no odds if thats a tourist, long stay, or extension.. Validity is defined by those that issue them not your perception of the intentions of the law.

[koheesti]

Also what 'valid reason' to the over 50's have ?? Other than 'liking it here' ??

My valid reason for a one year visa is "retirement". I didn't make up the rules - immigration did.

"Retirement" is not a reason. It's more like a state of being. WHY have you chosen to retire in Thailand? Cheaper than back home? Enjoy the hot climate? The hot women? Food? Beaches? You just like being taller than most others? Find the language and/or culture interesting? Something else?

[Jingthing]

"Retirement" is not a reason. It's more like a state of being. WHY have you chosen to retire in Thailand? Cheaper than back home? Enjoy the hot climate? The hot men? Food? Beaches? You just like being taller than most others? Find the language and/or culture interesting? Something else?

Yes, all of those!

[mel2surf]

Congratulations for having enough dosh to stay here. But I couldn't live with the "whatever visas they give" approach. I want something more concrete.

So you have PR or citizenship then ?? I am guessing not.. you have to annually be aware of ever changing and increasing retirement options, the constant threat of a changed visa situation, or even getting an illness or terminal disease that may preclude them letting you stay.. What a way to live especially being old..

My valid reason for a one year visa is "retirement". I didn't make up the rules - immigration did.

And mine if for visiting friends and family.. If that changes in the future I may investigate investment opportunities.. or.. or.. or..

One reason is no more 'valid' than another, if they issue a visa its deemed valid. Makes no odds if thats a tourist, long stay, or extension.. Validity is defined by those that issue them not your perception of the intentions of the law.

Good sensible post!

I agree.

[dbrenn]

Where else in the world could anyone get away with that? Good on Thailand for enforcing the rules

oi - dbrenn. Just because you followed the rules, stayed legal, and bothered to make your way all the way to citizenship, doesn't mean you should get uppity. I mean how dare you???

Peru

Brazil

Mexico

Philippines

India

Indonesia

Cambodia

Nicaragua

(many others I am sure)

All top of the line countries I'm sure. Desperate in most cases to stop their own people pissing off elsewhere. If you can't keep your own people, you'll of course lower your standards to get people - anyone - stay there.

Don't bother comparing Thailand to USA or Europe.

I always find this a rather self serving argument. You want your country to develop, you look towards worlds best standard. That includes enforcing proper immigration rules.

Hmm - not even sure that the info above is correct. A friend of mine has a Brazilian wife and he told me that there is a 6 month per year maximum stay for, ahem, 'tourists'

And, pardon me for getting uppity, but did go to great lenghts and considerable expense to follow the rules. I had medicals, criminal record checks and the like. Don't see why Thailand should throw open its doors and let people live here who lie about their purpose of stay and avoid any kind of background check.