Penang To Impose Stricter Rules When Issuing Tourist Visas

[lapamita]

.

I think many farangs overestimate their own worth in Thailand.

Get a visa, it's easy!

overestimate ?? yes, but NOT in touristareas. you know why farang tourist stay here longtime like 2,3,4 month and even old couples now??? because there is an perfect infrastructure of resataurants and bars made b foreigners. or you think if here are only THAIrestaurants we would have longstayers who eat over month thaifood?? longstaytourists want to go to foreignrestaurants to talk,communicate ad eat.

the same was happening in spain in the early 70s as more toruist as more foreignbars restaurants,but the spanishpolice was never forcing the law, and even it was legal but difficult to open a buissenses, and same rules applied at that time 49% ownership.

There was as well a lot of discussions around by spanishpeople who think they loose income. but today we know, that this was good and spain was having the longterm profit from it.

The total Visashit from thailand i not understan.

Guys without money go to overstay, many who have money leave the country,, and other struggeling around with visas.

if they want to get off poor foreigners,,, why they dont do it this way...easy and simple

1. no issuance of any visa for western countrys

2. evrybody can enter the country up to 180 days per calender-year, and no extensions

3. a possibility for people who stay up to the full year, eighter a heavy visafee of 50000 or 80000 per year

or simmilar to the investmentvisa before or offshoreacouns/offshoreincomming of a certain ammount.

[koheesti]

I wonder what related businesses in Penang think of this tightening of the rules? Will Firefly see a massive reduction in revenue from it's routes from Thailand? How many hotels, restaurants, bars, visa-related businesses in Penang will suffer to the point of closure because Thai visa seekers will start going elsewhere?

[rimbung]

Phuket Gazette

The letter from an expat in the Phuket Gazette says it all. He is a Norwegian with a condo on the island and a three year old daughter born in the Philippines for which he is the sole parent. However he has a Filipino maid working on a tourist visa!

This is a job a local Thai woman could do. Will she get a work permit? I doubt it. In this case the answer is obvious,either employ a local or go and live in the Philippines.

There has been over 25,000 hit on this thread which suggests there a quite a few worried tourist visa runners.

As a few others have mentioned,there are some running away from visa and tax problems that do not exist. Getting your affairs in order will help avoid sleepless nights

Edited February 3, 2008 by rimbung

[jstumbo]

Actually, if I sit in Thailand and do my work for under 183 days in a calendar year I don't have to pay income taxes no matter how arrogant I might want to be. Just 150 more days to go!

Just be careful. In order to get the foreign income exclusion, you have to meet certain criteria. One thing is that you need to meet either the bona fide residence test or the physical presence test.

The bona fide residence test might cause you problems if you are using tourist visas because you do not pass if you make statements to the foreign country where you are living that you are not a resident, which I would think by using a tourist visa, you would be doing. Being on an Non Immigrant visa would be a lot better I would think. Also, you must reside in Thailand for the entire tax year except for brief or temporary trips to the US or other countries for business or vacation. So if you only stay 183 days then go to the US for 182 days, they might not say that is a brief trip. These determinations are made on a case by case basis, so they might deny your exclusion.

For the physical presence test, you must be outside the US for 330+ days a year. So if you spend more than 35 days a year in the US, you would not pass this test.

If you pass one of these tests and the other requirements then you can exclude ~$80K from your earned income. It has to be earned income, not dividend, investment and such. I still have to pay income taxes on rental property that I have in the US.

Make sure that you read up on the requirements in IRS Publication 54.

[jstumbo]

The letter from an expat in the Phuket Gazette says it all. He is a Norwegian with a condo on the island and a three year old daughter born in the Philippines for which he is the sole parent. However he has a Filipino maid working on a tourist visa!

This is a job a local Thai woman could do. Will she get a work permit? I doubt it. In this case the answer is obvious,either employ a local or go and live in the Philippines.

What I find very strange is that the response to that letter was answered by an officer at the Phuket Immigration office. He did not say anything about them needing a work permit. Just said that the nanny would have to not be here more than 90 days on visa exempt entries otherwise she would need to get a visa. I would think that he would have said something about needing the work permit, but I guess it is a different department, so he does not care.

Strange that he says 90 days in 180 days instead of 6 months.

[samran]

Makes no difference.. Your sat in thailand when you do the work. You should pay taxes here.

Why is it always (mostly) Americans who think like this.. Is it becuase they get worldwide taxed and cant understand that the rest of the world taxes based on where you are ?? Or is it really just pure arrogance ??

Actually, if I sit in Thailand and do my work for under 183 days in a calendar year I don't have to pay income taxes no matter how arrogant I might want to be. Just 150 more days to go! If other Thai consulates get stricter with visas like Penang is reportedly doing, I may end up staying here less than 183 days out of the year and the rest elsewhere. Someone else having the possibility and freedom to do just that drives some people nuts. Too bad for them.

BTW - as has already been pointed out, I already pay 7% tax everytime I buy something which makes me a bigger tax payer than the vast majority of Thais.

two points.

I'll think you'll find that the US will find good reason to tax you, given that you aren't resident elsewhere.

Secondly, to say that you pay VAT and thus likely pay more than other Thai's is a self serving argument. You pay tax on your ability to pay based on the prevailing rates. Not based on "I think I've paid enough now, don't want to pay any more - bloody natives should be grateful that I am giving this much!!"

[Prakanong]

I wonder what related businesses in Penang think of this tightening of the rules? Will Firefly see a massive reduction in revenue from it's routes from Thailand? How many hotels, restaurants, bars, visa-related businesses in Penang will suffer to the point of closure because Thai visa seekers will start going elsewhere?

You really think anybody in Thailand will be bothered what some fly by night Malay business thinks about their shady operations helping farangs without the required wherewithall to obtain the required visa's for Thailand?

Or are you taking the ASEAN co-operation bullshit a little too seriously

[LivinLOS]

Makes no difference.. Your sat in thailand when you do the work. You should pay taxes here.

Why is it always (mostly) Americans who think like this.. Is it becuase they get worldwide taxed and cant understand that the rest of the world taxes based on where you are ?? Or is it really just pure arrogance ??

Actually, if I sit in Thailand and do my work for under 183 days in a calendar year I don't have to pay income taxes no matter how arrogant I might want to be. Just 150 more days to go! If other Thai consulates get stricter with visas like Penang is reportedly doing, I may end up staying here less than 183 days out of the year and the rest elsewhere. Someone else having the possibility and freedom to do just that drives some people nuts. Too bad for them.

BTW - as has already been pointed out, I already pay 7% tax everytime I buy something which makes me a bigger tax payer than the vast majority of Thais.

Once again categorically untrue..

If you do work while you are inside Thailand (no matter the 183 days) it is deemed Thai sourced income. And you owe Thai taxes on it !!

After 183 days you would also owe taxes on globally sourced income.

Your attempting to apply rule 2 to rule one.. Your wrong.

[LivinLOS]

Phuket Gazette

The letter from an expat in the Phuket Gazette says it all. He is a Norwegian with a condo on the island and a three year old daughter born in the Philippines for which he is the sole parent. However he has a Filipino maid working on a tourist visa!

This is a job a local Thai woman could do. Will she get a work permit? I doubt it. In this case the answer is obvious,either employ a local or go and live in the Philippines.

There has been over 25,000 hit on this thread which suggests there a quite a few worried tourist visa runners.

As a few others have mentioned,there are some running away from visa and tax problems that do not exist. Getting your affairs in order will help avoid sleepless nights

And look at the immigration response !!!

"I suggest that she do visa runs to comply with immigration law. Please note, however, that she would only be limited to a maximum stay of 90 days over a 180-day period if she is granted a visa exemption."

immigration themselves telling him to illegally employ her and use visa exempt entries !!

[Cornholio]

the thaivisa Penang visarun package biz must be doing gangbusters

[Digitalbanana]

or Upper Volta

Um' incase anyway is thinking of going there, it's now called Burkina Faso.

[mel2surf]

I wonder what related businesses in Penang think of this tightening of the rules? Will Firefly see a massive reduction in revenue from it's routes from Thailand? How many hotels, restaurants, bars, visa-related businesses in Penang will suffer to the point of closure because Thai visa seekers will start going elsewhere?

You speak truly.

The actions of this measure affect an awful lot of people.

[tropo]

Phuket Gazette

The letter from an expat in the Phuket Gazette says it all. He is a Norwegian with a condo on the island and a three year old daughter born in the Philippines for which he is the sole parent. However he has a Filipino maid working on a tourist visa!

This is a job a local Thai woman could do. Will she get a work permit? I doubt it. In this case the answer is obvious,either employ a local or go and live in the Philippines.

There has been over 25,000 hit on this thread which suggests there a quite a few worried tourist visa runners.

As a few others have mentioned,there are some running away from visa and tax problems that do not exist. Getting your affairs in order will help avoid sleepless nights

A Thai maid cannot replace an English speaking Filipino maid. Filipino maids have an affinity with English speaking people that Thais don't emulate well.

If I had a 3 year old daughter, I'd be fussy over who looks after her too.

[Prakanong]

I wonder what related businesses in Penang think of this tightening of the rules? Will Firefly see a massive reduction in revenue from it's routes from Thailand? How many hotels, restaurants, bars, visa-related businesses in Penang will suffer to the point of closure because Thai visa seekers will start going elsewhere?

You speak truly.

The actions of this measure affect an awful lot of people.

Why should Thailand be bothered what happens elsewhere ie Malaysia, regarding jobs and business if they want to apply their sovereignty and apply their rules?

Absolutely none - the business concerned should have known the risk and built this in their plan.

[Prakanong]

Phuket Gazette

The letter from an expat in the Phuket Gazette says it all. He is a Norwegian with a condo on the island and a three year old daughter born in the Philippines for which he is the sole parent. However he has a Filipino maid working on a tourist visa!

This is a job a local Thai woman could do. Will she get a work permit? I doubt it. In this case the answer is obvious,either employ a local or go and live in the Philippines.

There has been over 25,000 hit on this thread which suggests there a quite a few worried tourist visa runners.

As a few others have mentioned,there are some running away from visa and tax problems that do not exist. Getting your affairs in order will help avoid sleepless nights

A Thai maid cannot replace an English speaking Filipino maid. Filipino maids have an affinity with English speaking people that Thais don't emulate well.

If I had a 3 year old daughter, I'd be fussy over who looks after her too.

I thought Thailand let you bring in a maid from oversea's if she had been with you a requisite amount of time - why does the guy not just go the legal way.

[JetsetBkk]

It was only a matter of time before this hoop was added to the list of ones to jump through

Penkoprod

It was only a matter of time before this well publicized loop-hole was closed.

[mel2surf]

I wonder what related businesses in Penang think of this tightening of the rules? Will Firefly see a massive reduction in revenue from it's routes from Thailand? How many hotels, restaurants, bars, visa-related businesses in Penang will suffer to the point of closure because Thai visa seekers will start going elsewhere?

You speak truly.

The actions of this measure affect an awful lot of people.

Why should Thailand be bothered what happens elsewhere ie Malaysia, regarding jobs and business if they want to apply their sovereignty and apply their rules?

Absolutely none - the business concerned should have known the risk and built this in their plan.

Comes down to caring about regular working folks,whether Thai or Malaysian or falangs.

And this will affect local Thais if falangs take our dollars elsewhere,it also affects "legit" tax paying falangs

with small businesses,and it affects a nice guy named Mohammad at NJ Books and other local small biz owners in Penang.

[sonnyJ]

If Penang insist on an outbound ticket to an " international location " before issuance of a TV........would that flight date be entered into the system they have?

What would happen if that flight is not taken and therefore there are no corresponding exit/entry stamps in the passport.

Refusal next time? I ask because I know some posters will consider buying the ticket and then cancelling for a refund once the TV is issued.

Any thoughts?

That is a good point. It will probably take a while they catch it up, like maybe 2 months.

[bangkokgas]

oops -well said kopite, totally agree. Am fed up with the "better than thou" posters just because they are worried that those of us with LEGIMATE reasons for wanting to stay here, with the need to move around ASIA when there really a isn't suitable visa for us, saying we are are all undesirables, cheapskates e.t.c. There should be a multi-entry tourist visa available in the region for those who can PROVE that they require it. Now, I know this does'nt exist as yet, but the overwhelming classification by some on here, unproven, that all long-term t.v. stayers are undesirables is frankly sick, and xenophobic in the most ironical of all senses. (i.E. - you are not Thai either!).

what makes you legitimate, and more worthy than others? I'd really like to understand. If you have family here, then I'd understand - but there are visas for that, so this shouldn't bother you.

I mean, as an australian, I'd love to rock up to the UK and the US buy a place and spend a bit of time there, maybe south of france as well. But, the fact of the matter is, I'd never get a tourist visa to stay more than a couple of months, and if I'd stayed more than 6 months per year (in the UK) on a successive tourist visa I would be kicked out (3 months for france).

I'm a nice clean shaven guy, nice family, but I don't expect that I am 'deserving' of being allowed to stay in one country over another given their immigration rules. If this makes me holier than though, then so be it.

(nb. for the record, I 'jumped through the hoops' and have an independent migrant visa for the UK, and I can assure you that making the move to the UK legally is tougher than bothering to set yourself up in Thailand. Oh yes, and the British do change the rules on you. They do so often, and they are class acts at it.).

Did I say I was more worthy than you or others? I just made the point that instead of people having to fly back home and get (easily!) one-year visas, triple entry tourit visas e.t.c., why not have that facility locally if people can prove they have the means to support themselves whilst being in Asia. Yes, you'd still have to do the border hop every sixty/ninety days (more money for the Thais) As for getting into the U.K. - don't make me laugh! Its easier for a family of Somalians (all 30 or so) to get housing and support in the U.K. (and visas) than it is for for british nationals who have had the temerity to have stayed outside of the country for years (no taxes, ah...didums!).

[JetsetBkk]

If Penang insist on an outbound ticket to an " international location " before issuance of a TV........would that flight date be entered into the system they have?

What would happen if that flight is not taken and therefore there are no corresponding exit/entry stamps in the passport.

Refusal next time? I ask because I know some posters will consider buying the ticket and then cancelling for a refund once the TV is issued.

Any thoughts?

That is a good point. It will probably take a while they catch it up, like maybe 2 months.

Another loop-hole to be closed...

(You do realise that Thai immigration read this site, don't you? You're doing their job for them. )

[tatt2dude]

Hmm. Interesting way of putting it: "Low-end visitors." I wonder how you define that? I assume that since I'm one of the people staying long-term in Thailand on a tourist visa, I qualify as one of your "low-end visitors", but are you referring to poor people (I'm rich), or criminals (I'm not), those who don't integrate (I speak Thai quite well), or just scumbags in general? [/qoute]

How exactly do you determine that you are "rich"? I have been trying to work out if I really am "hansum", if I believe I am does that make it so?

Also sorry to burst your bubble, but if, by your own admission you are working in Thailand, even on the internet, without a work permit, then technically that means you are breaking the law, ego that makes you a criminal, however I suppose one can argue that untill such time you are caught and convicted you are not technically a criminal.

I have a company, 11 staff, a work permit and pay taxes here. I don't get any problems and only have to suffer the slight inconvienience of reporting to immigration every 90 days. I work within the system and enjoy a good life.

I always thought a tourist was someone on holiday ie they are not working, perhaps Thailand should introduce a "Working Holiday" visa that allows people to stay indefinetely, work and pay no taxes in any country?

Edited February 3, 2008 by tatt2dude

[Prakanong]

Comes down to caring about regular working folks,whether Thai or Malaysian or falangs...

So Thailand wants to apply its rules but they should consider Mohammed and others in Penang before they do it - BWHAAAAAAA and they said naive was being removed from the dictionary as we are all too cynical now.

Tell you what - give Thai Immigration a call and tell them of your concerns about mohammed and his pals

Another one with an inflated sense of the worth of the transient farang dollar amount spent by those without the means to get legitimate visa's to stay long term.

[sonnyJ]

...Whatever, you are wrong and don’t understand tax regulations...

I think you are contradicting your self here.

Yes the Thais INVENTED their game.

You stay over 180days in a fiscal year you are considered a resident which mean you need to pay tax from foreign income to Thai authorities by the local (law). Unless you are paying taxes somewhere else, which happen to have an anti double taxation treaties with Thailand.

[JimmyTheMook]

How exactly do you determine that you are "rich"?

He has more money than the immediate folks around him ?

[sonnyJ]

I often wonder what would happen if we would all pack up and no tourist's would arrive, this country would be stuffed.

Tourists will always arrive in Thailand, it's the guys living in Thailand on Tourist Visa's that are the problem.

You just never fail do you.

[sonnyJ]

...And why do you think most nation states have immigration controls as your's most certainly does.

Isn't Poland a member of E.U.?

So please explain how are they working in U.K. illegally.

Maybe tax evasion???

[Khun ?]

And look at the immigration response !!!

"I suggest that she do visa runs to comply with immigration law. Please note, however, that she would only be limited to a maximum stay of 90 days over a 180-day period if she is granted a visa exemption."

immigration themselves telling him to illegally employ her and use visa exempt entries !!

Seems quite simple the guy has a PI girlfriend he is trying to call a maid.

[Prakanong]

...And why do you think most nation states have immigration controls as your's most certainly does.

Isn't Poland a member of E.U.?

So please explain how are they working in U.K. illegally.

Maybe tax evasion???

Did you read the whole post or was that too much to ask?

From further down

"I hear blokes in Thailand whinging about legal Polish workers in the UK then in the next breath wondering how they are going to bend Thailands rules to stay their to spend their pittance."

[sonnyJ]

...And why do you think most nation states have immigration controls as your's most certainly does.

Isn't Poland a member of E.U.?

So please explain how are they working in U.K. illegally.

Maybe tax evasion???

Did you read the whole post or was that too much to ask?

From further down

"I hear blokes in Thailand whinging about legal Polish workers in the UK then in the next breath wondering how they are going to bend Thailands rules to stay their to spend their pittance."

Maybe I misread it or it was just your negative perspective on things happening in our World.

After thiunking aabout your post for 10 minutes I kind a get your message to the world.

Edited February 3, 2008 by sonnyJ

[tatt2dude]

How exactly do you determine that you are "rich"?

He has more money than the immediate folks around him ?

Hey that means I must be rich to! Any chance you can clarify the whole hansum thing for me?