Penang To Impose Stricter Rules When Issuing Tourist Visas

[CTM]

From your linked article:

You will love the earned-income exclusion…..

• Foreign earned income includes foreign-source wages, salaries, bonuses, commissions,…. Are your wages foreign sourced? No.

One last post on this. This should put it to rest. These quotes are from the IRS website.

To claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction, you must meet all three of the following requirements.

1. Your tax home must be in a foreign country.
   
2. You must have foreign earned income.
   
3. You must be either:
   1. 
      
   2. A U.S. citizen who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year,
      
   3. A U.S. resident alien who is a citizen or national of a country with which the United States has an income tax treaty in effect and who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year, or
      
   4. A U.S. citizen or a U.S. resident alien who is physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during any period of 12 consecutive months.
      

Here are definitions of each of the above from the same IRS document on the IRS website.

1) Tax Home

Your tax home is the general area of your main place of business, employment, or post of duty, regardless of where you maintain your family home. Your tax home is the place where you are permanently or indefinitely engaged to work as an employee or self-employed individual.

2) Foreign Income

Foreign earned income generally is income you receive for services you perform during a period in which you meet both of the following requirements.

1. Your tax home is in a foreign country.
   
2. You meet either the bona fide residence test or the physical presence test.

3c) Physical Presence Test

You meet the physical presence test if you are physically present in a foreign country or countries 330 full days during a period of 12 consecutive months. The 330 days do not have to be consecutive. Any U.S. citizen or resident alien can use the physical presence test to qualify for the exclusions and the deduction.

This will be the last I will post on this. If you still think that a person cannot claim the credit on their income from a US company while living in another country, well, it does not really matter to me what you think because I have the IRS on my side.

Whatever, you are wrong and don’t understand tax regulations. Under your faulty logic, I have a huge tax refund coming for capital gains and dividend taxes paid in the last few years. He may still qualify but based on what he has said he does not. For his sake, I hope he never gets caught.

To bring this back on topic, what he is doing is trying to “game” the system. I see this attitude all the time here in Thailand from farangs. This is Thailand not the overly legalistic West. Just as the overseas income exemption is not meant to allow people to avoid any taxation of income anywhere in the world, tourist visas are not for people staying long term in Thailand. Just because people were allowed for a long time to stay permanently doing visa runs does not make the practice right or legal in the eyes of the Thai government. Don’t confuse non-enforcement with legality. Thais are masters at ignoring laws and regulations until such time as they feel like enforcing them. And yes I am aware it sucks and is unfair especially for the people under 50 who are not working and not married to a Thai and cannot qualify for any long term visa.

[sayitaintso]

From your linked article:

You will love the earned-income exclusion…..

• Foreign earned income includes foreign-source wages, salaries, bonuses, commissions,…. Are your wages foreign sourced? No.

One last post on this. This should put it to rest. These quotes are from the IRS website.

To claim the foreign earned income exclusion, the foreign housing exclusion, or the foreign housing deduction, you must meet all three of the following requirements.

1. Your tax home must be in a foreign country.
   
2. You must have foreign earned income.
   
3. You must be either:
   1. 
      
   2. A U.S. citizen who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year,
      
   3. A U.S. resident alien who is a citizen or national of a country with which the United States has an income tax treaty in effect and who is a bona fide resident of a foreign country or countries for an uninterrupted period that includes an entire tax year, or
      
   4. A U.S. citizen or a U.S. resident alien who is physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during any period of 12 consecutive months.
      

Here are definitions of each of the above from the same IRS document on the IRS website.

1) Tax Home

Your tax home is the general area of your main place of business, employment, or post of duty, regardless of where you maintain your family home. Your tax home is the place where you are permanently or indefinitely engaged to work as an employee or self-employed individual.

2) Foreign Income

Foreign earned income generally is income you receive for services you perform during a period in which you meet both of the following requirements.

1. Your tax home is in a foreign country.
   
2. You meet either the bona fide residence test or the physical presence test.

3c) Physical Presence Test

You meet the physical presence test if you are physically present in a foreign country or countries 330 full days during a period of 12 consecutive months. The 330 days do not have to be consecutive. Any U.S. citizen or resident alien can use the physical presence test to qualify for the exclusions and the deduction.

This will be the last I will post on this. If you still think that a person cannot claim the credit on their income from a US company while living in another country, well, it does not really matter to me what you think because I have the IRS on my side.

Whatever, you are wrong and don't understand tax regulations. Under your faulty logic, I have a huge tax refund coming for capital gains and dividend taxes paid in the last few years. He may still qualify but based on what he has said he does not. For his sake, I hope he never gets caught.

To bring this back on topic, what he is doing is trying to "game" the system. I see this attitude all the time here in Thailand from farangs. This is Thailand not the overly legalistic West. Just as the overseas income exemption is not meant to allow people to avoid any taxation of income anywhere in the world, tourist visas are not for people staying long term in Thailand. Just because people were allowed for a long time to stay permanently doing visa runs does not make the practice right or legal in the eyes of the Thai government. Don't confuse non-enforcement with legality. Thais are masters at ignoring laws and regulations until such time as they feel like enforcing them. And yes I am aware it sucks and is unfair especially for the people under 50 who are not working and not married to a Thai and cannot qualify for any long term visa.

i love tax talk. as it happens, i am an Enrolled Agent. put simply it means i have a federal license to represent all taxpayers be they individual or corporate or charitable etc before the IRS in any tax matter. i hope the mods don't wake up and either delete or move all of this tax talk because out here in the barren wastelands i don't get to participate in these types of discussions much anymore.

[robert00]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

Beats the hel_l out of me, I have spent 1.5 million on my house, with other words I have employed a dozend men making a living out of me and all that with a higher price as we farangs always get overcharged, no matter what we do, then comes the furniture, the car, the monthly shopping. I for one can not understand the Thai government, all we farangs do is spend money, wether we are living here or are just tourists. I often wonder what would happen if we would all pack up and no tourist's would arrive, this country would be stuffed.

[Maigo6]

I often wonder what would happen if we would all pack up and no tourist's would arrive, this country would be stuffed.

Tourists will always arrive in Thailand, it's the guys living in Thailand on Tourist Visa's that are the problem.

[sayitaintso]

Tourists will always arrive in Thailand, it's the guys living in Thailand on Tourist Visa's that are the problem.

if you spot one here on samui please let us know. there are literally thousands of people waiting to sell him something.

[MEGALITHIC]

I've circumvented the Thai's by getting an APEC card (Asia Pacific Economic Conference). Took me about 5 months to get as police checks had to be done in all 30, or so, member countries but well worth it as it gives me a 90 day entry stamp on arrival, regardless of how many times I come and go. It's well woth having if your an Australian or kiwi (Austalia and NZ APEC members) as the 90 day entry on arrival applies to all member countries. It's good for three years and is renewable.

Is that the same APEC as the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation? Then it also applies for US & Canadian citizens and there are 21 members in total. It also includes Russia and I doubt they would let anyone in visa free for 90 days. Anyway, can you point the way to any links explaining how to get the card?

Go to this site: www.apec.org

I managed to find a link to a government department in my own country which processed the application form. The forms can be downloaded from the website.

Having lived in Thailand now for about 15 years I've experienced the whole cross section of trying to live, work, do bussiness and interact with the Thais. I'm now at the point where I have as little to do with them as possible because the stress, hassles, and problems they create are not worth experiencing any more. I like Thailand. I like the weather, the beaches, the food and the land itself. But Thai people, I'm sorry but they're just too much like hard work. Besides the communication barriers, there's the ever present need to be on your gaurd 24 hrs a day, simply because, they don't play by the same rules that I grew up with in New Zealand and Australia. I don't need a visa any more to come and go. I work outside the country. I keep my money in Singapore. I don't own property in Thailand and never will - I'll just continue to rent. I'll never get involved in a business again in Thailand - it's not worth the stress.

[TakingAVacation]

The best places in the Philippines is either far south or far north. ...[snip]...

I would refer to this image first before considering the far north of PP (or anywhere else where Cat 4 or 5 hurricanes/cyclones regularly occur):

//image removed due format problems - lopburi3//

[sayitaintso]

Having lived in Thailand now for about 15 years I've experienced the whole cross section of trying to live, work, do bussiness and interact with the Thais. I'm now at the point where I have as little to do with them as possible because the stress, hassles, and problems they create are not worth experiencing any more. I like Thailand. I like the weather, the beaches, the food and the land itself. But Thai people, I'm sorry but they're just too much like hard work. Besides the communication barriers, there's the ever present need to be on your gaurd 24 hrs a day, simply because, they don't play by the same rules that I grew up with in New Zealand and Australia. I don't need a visa any more to come and go. I work outside the country. I keep my money in Singapore. I don't own property in Thailand and never will - I'll just continue to rent. I'll never get involved in a business again in Thailand - it's not worth the stress.

preach on brother. hopefully nobody else has to spend 15 years to learn those same lessons. give thais another 1,500 years and

they might begin to understand that tomorrow does, in fact, exist. then perhaps another 1,500 years to understand that what they

do today has a direct impact on what happens to them tomorrow.

makes me think of the phrase "lead, follow or get out of the way"

[Maxi101]

I haven't seen to many farang taxi drivers, policemen, etc. around town.

The changes concerning visa runs came about because people were obviously abusing the system.

There are probably some people who generate money for the Thai economy or are otherwise benign presences in the Kingdom who will be negatively affected by these stricter interpretations of rules and regulations, but then their frustration shouldn't be directed at the authorities but at the farangs who abuse the system to the point that the authorities feel compelled to react.

As for the ensuing mass exodus to the Phillipines or Cambodia and the loss of millions, if not billions, of baht from all these high quality migrants, we hear the same thing over and over, but it never seems to happen.

Heh. I was just talking over lunch yesterday with a friend of mine who says that half of his friends have moved out of Thailand in the last year. I know of two fellows who made millions back in Europe who are moving to Malaysia on the "Make Malaysia My Second Home" plan.

You say, "it never seems to happen". What are you looking for? Empty streets? Of course you aren't going to see that. However, half of the houses in the high-end housing development I live in here in Pattaya are empty and for sale. They were full 2 years ago. Is that close enough?

HA HA HA you might be right, but your conclusion is wrong my friend.

Those guys are not going home they are just moving north eastwards.

And I wondered why the heck Nakhon Ratchasima, Buriram, Sakeo a.s.o is flooded with farrangs ?!?!

maxi

[Guest]

I really don't understand people who come here, enjoy the benefits but complain about the people.

Thais, and other Asians, are not and never will be westerners with western values.

Thats one reason I've been here 20 years. No people are prefect, but I would rather be here with Thais than be in the US, or most European countries.

If you want western values you can get the climate (but maybe not the cheap prices) in northern Australia, or Hawaiii, or somesuch place.

Insulting our hosts is not the best way to encourage them to welcome us.

[Maigo6]

Tourists will always arrive in Thailand, it's the guys living in Thailand on Tourist Visa's that are the problem.

if you spot one here on samui please let us know. there are literally thousands of people waiting to sell him something.

And the majority of them are Farangs working illegaly on a Tourist Visa!

[Maigo6]

If I was in the Thai Government and responsible for Visa matters and illegal workers, I would make things very difficult indeed for all the wide boy Farangs thumbing their nose at Thailands Immigration Laws!

How many Bars are operating in Thailand, run by Farangs with the Token Thai name on the license?

They know i's illegal, yet they still do it, cos the laws here are relaxed, the times are changing folks.

Have you seen the dross that arrives in Thailand from western countries?

Toughen up the Visa regs if anything, turn away some of the Riff Raff!

Edited February 2, 2008 by Maigo6

[sayitaintso]

I really don't understand people who come here, enjoy the benefits but complain about the people.

Thais, and other Asians, are not and never will be westerners with western values.

Thats one reason I've been here 20 years. No people are prefect, but I would rather be here with Thais than be in the US, or most European countries.

If you want western values you can get the climate (but maybe not the cheap prices) in northern Australia, or Hawaiii, or somesuch place.

Insulting our hosts is not the best way to encourage them to welcome us.

interesting you say that. japanese and chinese for example have much more in common with western values related to business for example than thais ever will. no people are perfect nor will they ever be. i would rather be here in spite of the thais than in the u.s. or any european country.

insulting their guests day in and day out is not the best way for us to feel welcome here. it's become very obvious over the last several years that tourists be they short stay or long stay or permanent residents, ARE in fact choosing other places to visit and live. but hey, you can get a great deal on a vacation property now (if you can find a buyer).

thailand, Land of those who continually bite the hands of those that feed them.

[sayitaintso]

And the majority of them are Farangs working illegaly on a Tourist Visa!

actually i was thinking of the thais who own a shop/guesthouse/business who are always asking me "where they stay now?"

and the bar girls who wonder "where customer go"

they seem to think they will find them now in pattaya or bkk but , hey, they will find out soon enough. whether or not they will

learn from it is another matter.

there are quite a few timeshare touts that are working without a permit, that will happen anywhere, however here in thailand

that timeshare they are trying to sell is majority owned by a thai who must know there are farang working without a permit trying

to put "heads on the beds", right?

[kojak]

Well! It all seems to me that Thailand is becoming one of them places

you can file under ‘nice place to visit but wouldn’t want to live there’

dam_n shame in’it?

Please can people who are going to other embassy’s in the local area

(Laos, Cam, Sing, Malay) give feedback on what they think the score is there.

cheers

[sayitaintso]

If I was in the Thai Government and responsible for Visa matters and illegal workers, I would make things very difficult indeed for all the wide boy Farangs thumbing their nose at Thailands Immigration Laws!

How many Bars are operating in Thailand, run by Farangs with the Token Thai name on the license?

They know i's illegal, yet they still do it, cos the laws here are relaxed, the times are changing folks.

Have you seen the dross that arrives in Thailand from western countries?

Toughen up the Visa regs if anything, turn away some of the Riff Raff!

you were the same kid in school who would run up and tell the teacher anytime something was wrong. the other kids didnt like you then and they don't like you now.

fact, you are not in the thai gov't. fact, they don't want your input. fact, you are not going to gain any points with them by ratting out all these bad farang.

how many bars are operating in thailand run by farang with the token thai name on the license?

i don't know and neither do you but what i do know is that a farang came here with some cash and tried to make

a business for his bar girl-friend who then sends the money on home to udon for her kids and family. if he doesn't

do it legally, sucks to be him but if he gets thrown out her family has to find some other farang to support them and

chances are it won't be a legal farang business because the cost is too high and the hoops are too many too support

any bar/restaurant business in any thai resort area simply because there are too many of them.

sure i've seen the "dross" that come here from western countries. and i've also travelled to other develloping nations and

seen them there too. you seem to think this happens only in thailand and that you are personally going to help clean thailand

up. let me know how that works out for you.

toughen up the visa regs all they want, riff raff spend a lot of money in thailand. or should i say, spent.

face facts, thailand needs more farang not less. if they spend their money in 3 days or 300 thailand is not in the position to be choosy.

[Prakanong]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

Beats the hel_l out of me, I have spent 1.5 million on my house, with other words I have employed a dozend men making a living out of me and all that with a higher price as we farangs always get overcharged, no matter what we do, then comes the furniture, the car, the monthly shopping. I for one can not understand the Thai government, all we farangs do is spend money, wether we are living here or are just tourists. I often wonder what would happen if we would all pack up and no tourist's would arrive, this country would be stuffed.

And why do you think most nation states have immigration controls as your's most certainly does.

Unless you are a total libertarian in the economic sense you would agree immigration controls are required in most of the world and Thailand is the same - just because you are a farang does not exempt you and you are the same as the Burmese, Khmer or whatever to them.

Yes, we have seen the arguments that illegal immigrants have an overall positive affect on an economy but sometimes its not all about the money spent, its cultural, social and political and in the state upon which a govt has sovereignty they have the right to impose whatever immigration rules they want.

I hear blokes in Thailand whinging about legal Polish workers in the UK then in the next breath wondering how they are going to bend Thailands rules to stay their to spend their pittance.

There is no problem getting a valid work permit and visa for Thailand if you fit into certain categories they deem they want. It is their choice though and they might be missing out by say making it difficult for under 50 retiree's but I reckon if you have enough funds as an under 50 retiree you would not meet any real problems in Thailand.

As for workers coming in to high value positions to which aid the economy - no problem getting the wp and visa - done in a day I think it is now.

[Maigo6]

you were the same kid in school who would run up and tell the teacher anytime something was wrong. the other kids didnt like you then and they don't like you now.

Haha..

Good one.

Getting a long term visa is not beyond the realms of possibility for even the bluntest tool

in the box.

If you have a few quid and not on the bones of your azz, these things can come to pass quite easily, yes there are hoops to jump through, so jump!

I have been listening to the defeatist Farangs in Thailand for years, doom and gloom merchants who suggest that Thailand will never survive without them when they are gone, most are still here, and Thailand would certainly survive if they left.

I think many farangs overestimate their own worth in Thailand.

Get a visa, it's easy!

[bangkokgas]

"why is the Thai Gouvernment so 'Anti Long Stay Tourist'"

It isn't. A 90-day tourist visa is long enough for a tourist. The problem is that many visitors rely on continuous renewals of short-term visas to live here all year. Abraham Lincoln said it best...

Abe: How many legs does a horse have?

A: Four.

Abe: That's right. If you consider the "tail" to be a "leg", how many legs does a horse have?

A: Five.

Abe: You're wrong. Just because you call a "tail" a "leg" doesn't make it a leg.

TVers also make the same mistake referring to "prostitutes" as "girlfriends", and then intellectualize the money they pay the pro as "cab fare".

I think that the Thai government should only allow one 90-day tourist visa per year. After that, a long-term visitor could buy a one-year "visitor" visa for 100,000THB. Of course, we'll read the nonsensical postings that this would destroy the economy, the housing market, and and and...

Oh dear, more B>S>!

[bangkokgas]

oops -well said kopite, totally agree. Am fed up with the "better than thou" posters just because they are worried that those of us with LEGIMATE reasons for wanting to stay here, with the need to move around ASIA when there really a isn't suitable visa for us, saying we are are all undesirables, cheapskates e.t.c. There should be a multi-entry tourist visa available in the region for those who can PROVE that they require it. Now, I know this does'nt exist as yet, but the overwhelming classification by some on here, unproven, that all long-term t.v. stayers are undesirables is frankly sick, and xenophobic in the most ironical of all senses. (i.E. - you are not Thai either!).

[samran]

oops -well said kopite, totally agree. Am fed up with the "better than thou" posters just because they are worried that those of us with LEGIMATE reasons for wanting to stay here, with the need to move around ASIA when there really a isn't suitable visa for us, saying we are are all undesirables, cheapskates e.t.c. There should be a multi-entry tourist visa available in the region for those who can PROVE that they require it. Now, I know this does'nt exist as yet, but the overwhelming classification by some on here, unproven, that all long-term t.v. stayers are undesirables is frankly sick, and xenophobic in the most ironical of all senses. (i.E. - you are not Thai either!).

what makes you legitimate, and more worthy than others? I'd really like to understand. If you have family here, then I'd understand - but there are visas for that, so this shouldn't bother you.

I mean, as an australian, I'd love to rock up to the UK and the US buy a place and spend a bit of time there, maybe south of france as well. But, the fact of the matter is, I'd never get a tourist visa to stay more than a couple of months, and if I'd stayed more than 6 months per year (in the UK) on a successive tourist visa I would be kicked out (3 months for france).

I'm a nice clean shaven guy, nice family, but I don't expect that I am 'deserving' of being allowed to stay in one country over another given their immigration rules. If this makes me holier than though, then so be it.

(nb. for the record, I 'jumped through the hoops' and have an independent migrant visa for the UK, and I can assure you that making the move to the UK legally is tougher than bothering to set yourself up in Thailand. Oh yes, and the British do change the rules on you. They do so often, and they are class acts at it.).

[rimbung]

Closing the Penang door will just force the traffic to go elsewhere. The border crossing at Nong Kai is already recognised as an easy touch and I've witnessed a huge increase in visa runs over the last couple of years. Savanakhet was a quite little Laos town that saw very few farangs until a couple of years ago. When there was just the ferry the town of Mukdahan was quite.

Hoping the problem will go away is not a reality for the border hopping tourist visa clan. When a sudden wave of farangs turn up at a quite outpost like Mukdahan or Nong Kai it puts pressure on the limited Thai immigration staff. This is quickly passed down the line to BKK HQ and questions are asked.

As many others have already stated tourist visas are for genuine tourists.

However I have come across quite a few UK expats who are claiming social security sickness benefit and enjoying a nice life on what would just about get you by in the UK. Others are dodging the tax system in their own country. I've met a few who are running from the Inland Revenue or creditors.

In the UK a similar loophole existed with student visas until recently. A so called language school would open with just a few rooms but with thousands of so called students from the Indian sub con.

I'm with the majority on this one. Get the right visa and be right. If you don't like the rules then move on.

[Prakanong]

"However I have come across quite a few UK expats who are claiming social security sickness benefit and enjoying a nice life on what would just about get you by in the UK."

I came across one or two a guy I knew was knocking about with in Pattaya. I was the one got him to go to Thailand for the first time and he sold up and moved there and he is dodging the IR.

The guy's he drank with in his condo and in town where they chased the happy hours were a mixed bunch. Some retired guy's, some with investments but not crazily rich and then there were the guys in disability or incapacity or whatever it is called in the UK now.

They lived in fear of rule changes back home regarding being called for medicals etc or being forced to work ie fit for a different job than the original. Of course they never told me directly but I overheard and my pal would tell me. They had their council houses rented out back home too and were also receiving housing benefit as well the story went.

Wonder how many of those kind are actually around?

It might suit some but its not a life I would relish - chasing the 40THB beer, balloon chasing etc

[CRUNCHER]

...Oh yes, and the British do change the rules on you. They do so often, and they are class acts at it.).

You are right about changes in UK. In the near future tourist visas will be 3 months not 6.

If you need a sponsor, the sponsor will have to put up a cash deposit refundable when you leave. Of course this only applies to nationals of certain countries. (Xenophobic Brits??)

[pgrin]

Phuket Gazette

[RooBoy]

JIP I think you have caused yourself unecessary hardship regarding your visa. You could have just gotten yourself a B visa by running a regional office in thailand, this allows you to visit any importers/dealers/sellers/users of any product your company may produce or market, allows you to work all day long talking to your company on computer, phone, etc etc, and means you only have to leave the country every 3 months (which is pretty normal for a regional office manager).

Of course if you dont usually go home once a year to see family etc or back to the company to report (on airfares and visas paid for by the company) then its not going to be as "cheap" as running the border every 30 days...but then anyone working for a company back home legitimately would be expected to go home at least once a year anyway. Seems like you are avoiding every little cost you can, not really something a "rich" person would bother with when a grand or so a year could make things so much easier and more legal.

As for taxes, even though I am not from the US I cannot logically see how you can avoid paying regular income taxes on wages being paid to you by a US company within the US. Are they sending your wages to your Thai bank account each month? if so you are working illegally in Thailand. If you are withdrawing your wages from your US bank account, then you are being paid in the US regardless where you are located and without actually speaking to an IRS official I would surmise you fall under their juristiction regardless what vague loopholes may exist...

[tim77]

I saw this one coming a long way off... and it's only a matter of time before all Thai consulates and embassies have similar rules. That's why I'm headed to live in The Philippines at the end of this month: Up to 16 months on a single tourist visa without having to leave the country.

I'll be waiting for the rest of you to show up.

Hi,I see you there,leaving 11feb after 6 years in Thailand I had enough of bullshit from the goverment,totaly brainless,so see you in Philippines(puerto galera,sabang)

After about 12 years in Thailand, mostly on business visa, I too made the move to the Philippines - also to Puerto Galera, Sabang. I simply do not want to live in a country with (i) unstable rules and/or unstable interpretations of rules dealing with foreign ownership of a residence, (ii) constant threats against foreign control of companies that have been totally capitalized by non-Thais, (iii) one-day advance notice of adverse visa change rules; and the list goes on.

Edited February 3, 2008 by tim77

[Fartislartbast]

I haven't seen to many farang taxi drivers, policemen, etc. around town.

Obviously you think Thais are only employed in low paying service jobs.

Tourist visas are intended for tourists. If you are working here for an American company or you want to take up long term residence under other terms, then you are not a tourist.

Most of the changes in immigration's rules that some of you complain about are actually just moves to implement both the letter of the law and the intent of the law.

The change requiring retirees to keep B800,000 in their bank accounts for a minimum of three months came about because people were shifting the same money around from account to account.

The changes concerning visa runs came about because people were obviously abusing the system.

There are probably some people who generate money for the Thai economy or are otherwise benign presences in the Kingdom who will be negatively affected by these stricter interpretations of rules and regulations, but then their frustration shouldn't be directed at the authorities but at the farangs who abuse the system to the point that the authorities feel compelled to react.

As for the ensuing mass exodus to the Phillipines or Cambodia and the loss of millions, if not billions, of baht from all these high quality migrants, we hear the same thing over and over, but it never seems to happen.

Visa rules are made in terms of generalities. In general, older retired people with sufficient money in the bank are a good source of money for the country and are less likely to be problems for the police than independently wealthy 30 year olds. In general people with certain skills or investment resources make a worthwhile contribution to the country. If the Phillipines or Cambodia or Upper Volta are desperate to attract larger numbers of dubious people along with some good people who don't fit Thai restrictions, then good for them.

Visa applications are a little like loan applications. When the criteria become too loosely enforced you end up with a subprime crisis.

I couldn't agree more, inteligent and eloquently put.

[ericB]

I mean, as an australian, I'd love to rock up to the UK and the US buy a place and spend a bit of time there, maybe south of france as well. But, the fact of the matter is, I'd never get a tourist visa to stay more than a couple of months, and if I'd stayed more than 6 months per year (in the UK) on a successive tourist visa I would be kicked out (3 months for france).

That is or misinformation or B.S. (with regards to France).

3 month is the starting visa, that you can renew by simply visiting the local Police Station or the City Hall. As long as you have a residence, no police records, no one of your neiborought complain and have legal way to have money (pension, salary or simply money coming from Oz ) you will get another 3 month. After 2 years you hsould apply for 10 years.

Futhermore, if you run a business (even an Ebay selling goods), as long as it's legal you are entitled to a special ID card that will provide you all the advantages of french citizen (with regards to the visas, and not only the visa to enter and stay in France but for any other country) without being french.

So please compare what is comparable. UK since the XVII century (time where they decided to suppress French as language for the laws, and to suppress many laws originated from France) and France have very different laws.

[koheesti]

Makes no difference.. Your sat in thailand when you do the work. You should pay taxes here.

Why is it always (mostly) Americans who think like this.. Is it becuase they get worldwide taxed and cant understand that the rest of the world taxes based on where you are ?? Or is it really just pure arrogance ??

Actually, if I sit in Thailand and do my work for under 183 days in a calendar year I don't have to pay income taxes no matter how arrogant I might want to be. Just 150 more days to go! If other Thai consulates get stricter with visas like Penang is reportedly doing, I may end up staying here less than 183 days out of the year and the rest elsewhere. Someone else having the possibility and freedom to do just that drives some people nuts. Too bad for them.

BTW - as has already been pointed out, I already pay 7% tax everytime I buy something which makes me a bigger tax payer than the vast majority of Thais.