Penang To Impose Stricter Rules When Issuing Tourist Visas

[samuijack]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

The people who come here for 6 months (long stay tourists) will have a return airline ticket, so they will have no problem getting an extension.

What they are trying to stop is the farang who opens a bar or business in his Thai girlfriends name and is staying here long term on a tourist visa, or the timeshare touts etc. who are working illegaly, therefore avoiding having to pay for a work permit and not paying tax. If you live in any of the big tourist areas, you will see this all the time.

The answer to this problem is as they quote "get a visa appropiate to your purpose of stay" The immigration are getting fed up with these people taking the p*ss.

[Dupont]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

The people who come here for 6 months (long stay tourists) will have a return airline ticket, so they will have no problem getting an extension.

What they are trying to stop is the farang who opens a bar or business in his Thai girlfriends name and is staying here long term on a tourist visa, or the timeshare touts etc. who are working illegaly, therefore avoiding having to pay for a work permit and not paying tax. If you live in any of the big tourist areas, you will see this all the time.

The answer to this problem is as they quote "get a visa appropiate to your purpose of stay" The immigration are getting fed up with these people taking the p*ss.

Quite.

I went for a non- "O" last year and knew everybody on the bus and most of the falangs in the hotel.

Our bus was full of bar owners telling us not only how smart they had been by avoiding tax all these years, but how much smarter than us they still were by working out this fantastic series of 30 day stamps and "tourist visas". So much smarter than the Thais as well, who would never be able to clamp down on this.

Further to bar owners, there was the ususal smattering of divemasters, teachers and Real Estate "consultants" and "developers", all of whome had outsmarted the Thais down the years. One Scandanavian guy had 7 half built villas on Phuket and was incredibly on a tourist visa.

No genuine tourist is going to be affected by this.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Dupont

[STOUTBOY]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

THEY SPEND THE 10K ON PROSTITUTE'S.

[STOUTBOY]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

The people who come here for 6 months (long stay tourists) will have a return airline ticket, so they will have no problem getting an extension.

What they are trying to stop is the farang who opens a bar or business in his Thai girlfriends name and is staying here long term on a tourist visa, or the timeshare touts etc. who are working illegaly, therefore avoiding having to pay for a work permit and not paying tax. If you live in any of the big tourist areas, you will see this all the time.

The answer to this problem is as they quote "get a visa appropiate to your purpose of stay" The immigration are getting fed up with these people taking the p*ss.

Quite.

I went for a non- "O" last year and knew everybody on the bus and most of the falangs in the hotel.

Our bus was full of bar owners telling us not only how smart they had been by avoiding tax all these years, but how much smarter than us they still were by working out this fantastic series of 30 day stamps and "tourist visas". So much smarter than the Thais as well, who would never be able to clamp down on this.

Further to bar owners, there was the ususal smattering of divemasters, teachers and Real Estate "consultants" and "developers", all of whome had outsmarted the Thais down the years. One Scandanavian guy had 7 half built villas on Phuket and was incredibly on a tourist visa.

No genuine tourist is going to be affected by this.

Quite right, good comment.

The majority are not Bar Ownwer's but Renter's who have put everything in the name of a Thai, usually a bar girl, they stand to lose the most as the boss is the bar girl. The other's mentioned are illegal imigrants working illegaly, they also walk looking over there shoulder.

Who's laughing now, he he he???

Edited February 2, 2008 by STOUTBOY

[rimbung]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

The people who come here for 6 months (long stay tourists) will have a return airline ticket, so they will have no problem getting an extension.

What they are trying to stop is the farang who opens a bar or business in his Thai girlfriends name and is staying here long term on a tourist visa, or the timeshare touts etc. who are working illegaly, therefore avoiding having to pay for a work permit and not paying tax. If you live in any of the big tourist areas, you will see this all the time.

The answer to this problem is as they quote "get a visa appropiate to your purpose of stay" The immigration are getting fed up with these people taking the p*ss.

Quite.

I went for a non- "O" last year and knew everybody on the bus and most of the falangs in the hotel.

Our bus was full of bar owners telling us not only how smart they had been by avoiding tax all these years, but how much smarter than us they still were by working out this fantastic series of 30 day stamps and "tourist visas". So much smarter than the Thais as well, who would never be able to clamp down on this.

Further to bar owners, there was the ususal smattering of divemasters, teachers and Real Estate "consultants" and "developers", all of whome had outsmarted the Thais down the years. One Scandanavian guy had 7 half built villas on Phuket and was incredibly on a tourist visa.

No genuine tourist is going to be affected by this.

Exactly....

There is a whole section of farang wide boys here in Thailand and their numbers are increasing every year. Now the Russians and Eastern Europeans are getting in on the act. As a legit Non O visa holder I welcome the crackdown. Pattaya and other places would be a lot better without the rogues. Reading Stickman every week he refers to farang bar owners or managers.

I suspect most of these do not have visas as managing a bar is a job the average Thai can do.

(I wonder if Paul pays his Thai tax for the profits from Stickman?)

This forum is called Thai Visa and my advice is play by the rules like any other country. The tourist visa run brigade need sorting out.

[LivinLOS]

You won't hear any European government say "but they may be spending a lot of money here..." when talking about illegal workers. Why should Thailand do so?

What you seem to be missing is that the VAST majority of big spending long stayers are not working illegally.

Secondly if a foriegn visitor to the west is 'big spending' in western terms they pretty much have open access to visas.. People who can afford to be idle rich in the west dont have much problem getting them even when they are from SE Asia.

[LivinLOS]

You allege that you are working and pumping millions of baht each year into Thailand, so why not apply for a non immigrant visa?

(1) Because I never planned on staying here forever, and didn't feel it necessary to go through the process of getting a long-term visa.

(2) Because my American company asked me not to, because they didn't want to know about, or get involved in what effect it would have on my tax status, disability, et cetera.

(3) Most simply, because, before, I could stay in Thailand for a long time on a tourist visa.

If you are not registered as working in Thailand (so whay are you here?) or not enough income or the company cannot meet the required imposed structure to qualify for a non immigrant visa, than you are a tourist and have no reason or wanted in the kingdom for more than 6 months.

I'm here because I'm on vacation... a very long vacation. I work on the internet while I'm on vacation. Also, because as long as I'm not in America, I qualify for the Overseas Tax Credit, which basically makes me tax-exempt.

I have long awaited the end for the visa runners in Thailand and hope that the reliable source is that RELIABLE and the mentioned new rules are imposed.

What? Were you abused by a visa runner as a child? Are you afraid that if you spend too much time around visa runners, you might become a visa runner too? Perhaps you should just pray to God for visa runners to give up their sinful ways, eh? Perhaps you could set up an ex-visa-runner ministry to bring them out of the darkness.

Sorry but your whole argument fails.. You simply cannot be bothered to get your affairs in order and want to work illegally and pay no tax. Theres plenty of options open to you and so I have little sympathy.

If your 'working' your not on vacation..

[LivinLOS]

%^&*#$@! 'em. I'm in a similar situation as you. My work is over the Internet for an American company and doesn't involve Thailand or Thais whatsoever (except using TOT for Internet). I'm not making money in Thailand and I'm not taking work from anyone. On the other hand, I inject more money into the Thai economy than I would if they forced me to move elsewhere. I have no plans on putting down roots either so am not interested in setting up companies, etc. I'd rather move to The Philippines, Cambodia or somewhere else that appreciates my money.

Come, come, now. Don't be like that! You could always teach English for 28K per month. They are quite happy to let you do that! Or marry a "rich " Thai lady and use her 35K per month income as the basis of your visa application.

Aloha,

Rex

Sorry, I guess the part "I'm not making any money in Thailand" could sound like I need money. I meant, my work is in the US and that is where my money is made/earned. No money exchanges hands in Thailand except what I get out of the ATM.

Makes no difference.. Your sat in thailand when you do the work. You should pay taxes here.

Why is it always (mostly) Americans who think like this.. Is it becuase they get worldwide taxed and cant understand that the rest of the world taxes based on where you are ?? Or is it really just pure arrogance ??

[LivinLOS]

%^&*#$@! 'em. I'm in a similar situation as you. My work is over the Internet for an American company and doesn't involve Thailand or Thais whatsoever (except using TOT for Internet). I'm not making money in Thailand and I'm not taking work from anyone. On the other hand, I inject more money into the Thai economy than I would if they forced me to move elsewhere. I have no plans on putting down roots either so am not interested in setting up companies, etc. I'd rather move to The Philippines, Cambodia or somewhere else that appreciates my money.

Come, come, now. Don't be like that! You could always teach English for 28K per month. They are quite happy to let you do that! Or marry a "rich " Thai lady and use her 35K per month income as the basis of your visa application.

Aloha,

Rex

Sorry, I guess the part "I'm not making any money in Thailand" could sound like I need money. I meant, my work is in the US and that is where my money is made/earned. No money exchanges hands in Thailand except what I get out of the ATM.

I'm guessing the rules are aimed at persons such as yourself. Do you happen to be living in Thailand more that 183 days per year? If yes, then you are a tax resident. Are you paying income tax on the monies that you bring into Thailand? Do you have a work permit for undertaking that work (even though your clients are elsewhere).

I haven't been here that long. I'll look into it though in case I hit that mark. I guess Thaivisa has someone to recommend?

Makes no difference, if your working here (physically here when you do the task) thats Thai sourced income and must be paid to Thailand from day 1 of the work.

Its so easy for a US person to have an amity company and retain control.. Thats whats annoying to me, they have the options and still cant be bothered.

[sayitaintso]

slightly off topic but if your main intent is to work online while taking an extended vacation and are an american than belize is worth a look. you will find a much better and friendlier tax atmosphere. belize is perfectly happy to let you sit in your home office and net away all day making your money without paying any local tax of any kind, personal income tax, corporate tax, capital gain tax etc while still qualifying yourself for the foreign earned income credit as well as the housing allowance.

personally i'm only here for many of the reasons that make the current situation in the states unbearable to me, liberals, police state, tremendous cost of living etc. every step thailand takes in this direction is one step i'll be taking in another. from the looks of things around the country this high season, many others are doing the same.

[stiggy]

I do truly feel for all those that stay in their corner of Thailand supporting a family or trying hard to make one.Who have brought good money to the kingdom who are semi retired or in a similar position, and due to the earlier lapse rules have suddenly found themselves drowning in a sea of regulations and needing to find a papertrail to apply for the right visa that they now suddenly realize they need.

I have not an once of sympathy for the jack the lad types who dodge taxes (where they are due), believe they are above the law,run illegal company's that there legally based competition find hard to compete with.Or the bargirl brigade who simply fly around the world to sh33g Thai women feel like a semi god due to the attention they get and decide to stay indefinetly while the money lasts, who over time give nothing to the community apart from genital warts and the like.

Personally I have always worked legally here over 8 years now, call me a wuss but the thought of being illegal in a developing country is scary to me,its not a case of trying to be better than others its simply respecting the regulations in a foreign country where Im the guest.

As always this will all be navigated by those visa runners that decide to stay.It seems there is always a loophole somewhere.

Good luck to them all but please don't complain about the injustice of it all you choose to run the gauntlet. For those that leave as in the last crackdowns good luck also.

[Spiny]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

The people who come here for 6 months (long stay tourists) will have a return airline ticket, so they will have no problem getting an extension.

What they are trying to stop is the farang who opens a bar or business in his Thai girlfriends name and is staying here long term on a tourist visa, or the timeshare touts etc. who are working illegaly, therefore avoiding having to pay for a work permit and not paying tax. If you live in any of the big tourist areas, you will see this all the time.

The answer to this problem is as they quote "get a visa appropiate to your purpose of stay" The immigration are getting fed up with these people taking the p*ss.

Quite.

I went for a non- "O" last year and knew everybody on the bus and most of the falangs in the hotel.

Our bus was full of bar owners telling us not only how smart they had been by avoiding tax all these years, but how much smarter than us they still were by working out this fantastic series of 30 day stamps and "tourist visas". So much smarter than the Thais as well, who would never be able to clamp down on this.

Further to bar owners, there was the ususal smattering of divemasters, teachers and Real Estate "consultants" and "developers", all of whome had outsmarted the Thais down the years. One Scandanavian guy had 7 half built villas on Phuket and was incredibly on a tourist visa.

No genuine tourist is going to be affected by this.

Exactly....

There is a whole section of farang wide boys here in Thailand and their numbers are increasing every year. Now the Russians and Eastern Europeans are getting in on the act. As a legit Non O visa holder I welcome the crackdown. Pattaya and other places would be a lot better without the rogues. Reading Stickman every week he refers to farang bar owners or managers.

I suspect most of these do not have visas as managing a bar is a job the average Thai can do.

(I wonder if Paul pays his Thai tax for the profits from Stickman?)

This forum is called Thai Visa and my advice is play by the rules like any other country. The tourist visa run brigade need sorting out.

[Spiny]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

The people who come here for 6 months (long stay tourists) will have a return airline ticket, so they will have no problem getting an extension.

What they are trying to stop is the farang who opens a bar or business in his Thai girlfriends name and is staying here long term on a tourist visa, or the timeshare touts etc. who are working illegaly, therefore avoiding having to pay for a work permit and not paying tax. If you live in any of the big tourist areas, you will see this all the time.

The answer to this problem is as they quote "get a visa appropiate to your purpose of stay" The immigration are getting fed up with these people taking the p*ss.

Quite.

I went for a non- "O" last year and knew everybody on the bus and most of the falangs in the hotel.

Our bus was full of bar owners telling us not only how smart they had been by avoiding tax all these years, but how much smarter than us they still were by working out this fantastic series of 30 day stamps and "tourist visas". So much smarter than the Thais as well, who would never be able to clamp down on this.

Further to bar owners, there was the ususal smattering of divemasters, teachers and Real Estate "consultants" and "developers", all of whome had outsmarted the Thais down the years. One Scandanavian guy had 7 half built villas on Phuket and was incredibly on a tourist visa.

No genuine tourist is going to be affected by this.

Exactly....

There is a whole section of farang wide boys here in Thailand and their numbers are increasing every year. Now the Russians and Eastern Europeans are getting in on the act. As a legit Non O visa holder I welcome the crackdown. Pattaya and other places would be a lot better without the rogues. Reading Stickman every week he refers to farang bar owners or managers.

I suspect most of these do not have visas as managing a bar is a job the average Thai can do.

(I wonder if Paul pays his Thai tax for the profits from Stickman?)

This forum is called Thai Visa and my advice is play by the rules like any other country. The tourist visa run brigade need sorting out.

I agree entirely, these rogues and thugs are making Thailand's beachside resorts no-go areas, once confined to Pattaya, they seems to have spread to Samui, Phuket and Hua Hin. I guess with the appearence of the first "bar beer" a coupe of of years it is only a matter of time before Koh Chang falls too. Time for the immigration authorities to do unannounced spot checks in these areas and deport these illegals.

[tropo]

It's absolutely incredible!!

This room on the forum has been very slow lately yet this thread has been viewed over 22,000 times and gained over 300 replies in only a few days.

Penang has already been shown to be unfriendly regarding the issue of tourist visas, now everyone seems to be worried about the necessity to show proof of onward travel.

This ticket issue is a breeze. We already need them in Jomtien to get an extension and to get visa-free entries at most land borders, so showing one for tourist visa is not really a problem at all. <deleted> is all the fuss over?

Other consulates also require them. Try to get a tourist visa in Manila without a return ticket.

What's more important is that Penang will defile your passport with red stamp warnings after you've had 2 or 3 tourist visas from anywhere, yet everyone is getting worked up over a simple ticket requirement.

It's far better for everyone to just boycott the Penang consulate. I thought that this was already happening after the red warning stamp issue, but judging by the amount of views and comments on this thread it would seem that it hasn't yet happened.

Don't go there and risk refusal and red warning stamps. If you do, you'll be the victim of grandstanding by a consulate-general who's gotten too big for his boots.

Just let Penang join the ranks of other quiet, unfriendly consulates. That's where they want to be, so let them be.

[backflip]

"why is the Thai Gouvernment so 'Anti Long Stay Tourist'"

It isn't. A 90-day tourist visa is long enough for a tourist. The problem is that many visitors rely on continuous renewals of short-term visas to live here all year. Abraham Lincoln said it best...

Abe: How many legs does a horse have?

A: Four.

Abe: That's right. If you consider the "tail" to be a "leg", how many legs does a horse have?

A: Five.

Abe: You're wrong. Just because you call a "tail" a "leg" doesn't make it a leg.

TVers also make the same mistake referring to "prostitutes" as "girlfriends", and then intellectualize the money they pay the pro as "cab fare".

I think that the Thai government should only allow one 90-day tourist visa per year. After that, a long-term visitor could buy a one-year "visitor" visa for 100,000THB. Of course, we'll read the nonsensical postings that this would destroy the economy, the housing market, and and and...

[sayitaintso]

"I think that the Thai government should only allow one 90-day tourist visa per year. After that, a long-term visitor could buy a one-year "visitor" visa for 100,000THB. Of course, we'll read the nonsensical postings that this would destroy the economy, the housing market, and and and...

well you pretty much just started and ended the nonsensical part by suggesting a visitor visa for 100k baht.

[tropo]

I think that the Thai government should only allow one 90-day tourist visa per year. After that, a long-term visitor could buy a one-year "visitor" visa for 100,000THB. Of course, we'll read the nonsensical postings that this would destroy the economy, the housing market, and and and...

Yours can be the first on the list of "nonsensical postings" as the most senseless of all. First prize!

[raylo]

I work for my American company on the internet, and pump several million baht into Thailand every year. That's more than any tourist I know of... more than any several tourists I know of. I was willing to do the "fly-to-Penang" thing 4 times a year for the priviledge of living here, but hey... if Thailand doesn't want people who do that living here no matter how much money they put into Thailand, that's fine. Either Philippines or Cambodia will bend over backwards for people to come and contuously pump money into their economy.

The way I see it, Thailand is just too prickly about people coming here and living a good life when other countries (Europe, North America) make it so difficult to do the same thing.

Out of curiosity:

If you are a virtual that is on line worker what difference does it make what country you live in as it is transparent to the system. Does your living here pump millions into the economy or does your work pump it in and how is that inflow of money affected by your relocation? The money comes from overseas?

[apetley]

Yes 100k seems a little excessive to say the least.

Isnt PR less than that if married to a Thai?

As a point of interest what would Thaivisa members be prepared to pay for a 1 year 'tourist' visa to Thailand.

Dare I suggest 25k? Any offers?

[Ned]

So now on 2nd Feb, supposedly the second day of the new rule the question is this: How many people applying for a tourist visa in Penang have so far been refused one? Is this so called new rule just another bit of talk like so much else here. Farang getting all worked up about something which may just be another bit of nothing. Let's see what really goes down in Penang before throwing hands in the air in panic. It could be a case of business as usual and nothing to worry about.

[stevemiddie]

If Penang insist on an outbound ticket to an " international location " before issuance of a TV........would that flight date be entered into the system they have?

What would happen if that flight is not taken and therefore there are no corresponding exit/entry stamps in the passport.

Refusal next time? I ask because I know some posters will consider buying the ticket and then cancelling for a refund once the TV is issued.

Any thoughts?

Edited February 2, 2008 by stevemiddie

[LivinLOS]

I'm an American making a pile of money on the internet, and not paying any Thai taxes...

There is no reason for you to pay any Thai INCOME taxes as the work you do and the money you collect for doing it has no relation to Thailand (not for Thai company or Thai clients and not Thai citizen or legal resident). As to not paying any Thai taxes...ever noticed that 7% charge tacked onto EVERY good or service (ehem except some ) you purchase in Thailand. THAT IS CALLED A TAX...the VAT so every person (Thai or expatriate) is contributing to their share of the government's tax revenues.

One more incorrectly informed individual..

Work in Thailand is Thai sourced income and should have Thai taxation paid on it.

[LivinLOS]

Of course I don't know anything about Thai tax law, but it seems unreasonable to me that I would owe Thailand income tax given the following:

1. They won't allow me to have resident status.

2. I can't own land.

3. I can't own a house.

4. I can't own a car.

5. I can't benefit from any public service programs.

6. The money I spend in Thailand is already taxed in the US.

Why would they think I need to pay income tax?

Because the work is performed while you are physically inside Thailand. End of.

And the US will give you an 80k per year tax credit.

So if you legalize yourself (amity compnay etc) you get a proper visa and ownership of stuff rights (not land).. It all falls into place.

[Prakanong]

"why is the Thai Gouvernment so 'Anti Long Stay Tourist'"

It isn't. A 90-day tourist visa is long enough for a tourist. The problem is that many visitors rely on continuous renewals of short-term visas to live here all year. Abraham Lincoln said it best...

Abe: How many legs does a horse have?

A: Four.

Abe: That's right. If you consider the "tail" to be a "leg", how many legs does a horse have?

A: Five.

Abe: You're wrong. Just because you call a "tail" a "leg" doesn't make it a leg.

TVers also make the same mistake referring to "prostitutes" as "girlfriends", and then intellectualize the money they pay the pro as "cab fare".

I think that the Thai government should only allow one 90-day tourist visa per year. After that, a long-term visitor could buy a one-year "visitor" visa for 100,000THB. Of course, we'll read the nonsensical postings that this would destroy the economy, the housing market, and and and...

LOL - I agree with you - Tourist Visa's are not for living in a country but visiting

A lot of guy's who whinge about immigration, legal and illegal, in the USA and Europe I hear are often living in Thailand with their coats hanging on very wobbly nails.

How many 30 day visa free entry's though as I pop up quite often but have no intention of living in Thailand in the near future unless they double my salary as a hardhsip allowance and to cover the extra tax even if our Bangkok office is better appointed than the regional HQ?

[LivinLOS]

It seems rather clear, or as clear as it can get, that tourists are visitors. People here long term are not tourists. They work from their computers or mom and pop send a stipend to get them by. They have jobs or businesses, pay taxes or not, work or not, but they are not tourists and should not be awarded continuous tourist visas just because it is easy for them. The "millionaire" posters here can easily secure year-round visas as investors and us old guys can spend an hour a year renewing our retirement visas.

Explain that one to me ?? Theres no investor visa any more.

Secondly while these people may not be tourists.. Thailand doesnt exactly hand out 'residence' visa's.. So the tourist visa has long been used and even advised by officialdom, to fullfill that visa class.

[LivinLOS]

Of course I don't know anything about Thai tax law, but it seems unreasonable to me that I would owe Thailand income tax given the following:

1. They won't allow me to have resident status.

2. I can't own land.

3. I can't own a house.

4. I can't own a car.

5. I can't benefit from any public service programs.

6. The money I spend in Thailand is already taxed in the US.

Why would they think I need to pay income tax?

cause it is the law here if you are here for more than half the year.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

1. Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into "resident" and "non-resident". "Resident" means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand on a cash basis, regardless where the money is paid, as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

meaning, if you live in Thailand, earn money offshore and it stays offshore, it is untaxable. You bring it into Thailand though, then the revenue department wants their share (and fairly so seeing you are living here and using public infrastructure, subsidised electricity, water, roads etc etc etc).

Plus any work done within the kingdom is now thai sourced income also and needs legalizing and taxes paid from Day 1.

*sigh..

[LivinLOS]

To clarify we need to establish the definition of "long term". I can agree that if someone wants to stay for many years (5, 10, 20, ?) then they should be able to find a way that doesn't include Tourist Visa. I would think that they would want to in order to avoid the hassles. But for some, 2 years is long term and some of us can be "on holiday" for that long or even longer. I'm here on a Tourist Visa, following the rules of Thailand. Maybe I'll stay a year or two. As long as they continue to give me the visas, it means I'm not breaking their rules whatever the definition of "tourist" is. Besides, my first TV was a double entry which means I can be a tourist/visitor for up to 6 months. What definition of tourist is Thailand using if they give me 6 months and allow me to go get another somewhere else?

No your not. The tourist visa precludes any form of work. Your breaking the law.

To work within Thailand you need a B visa and a work permit.. To get those you may or may not need to start a company. Once you do all your tax liabilities, visa problems, etc all fall into line.

[LivinLOS]

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

The people who come here for 6 months (long stay tourists) will have a return airline ticket, so they will have no problem getting an extension.

What they are trying to stop is the farang who opens a bar or business in his Thai girlfriends name and is staying here long term on a tourist visa, or the timeshare touts etc. who are working illegaly, therefore avoiding having to pay for a work permit and not paying tax. If you live in any of the big tourist areas, you will see this all the time.

The answer to this problem is as they quote "get a visa appropiate to your purpose of stay" The immigration are getting fed up with these people taking the p*ss.

Then instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.. why dont they actually clamp down on what the problem is ??

Go around every bar and check work permits.. Gather up each timeshare tout.. Deport the lot and red card them for future returns.

Make the deportation fine 50k (to get out of jail) and offer thais 10k baht to grass up.. Perhaps make it a 2 stricke system so that people who have been used to this as being the 'norm' dont have thier lives ruined first time round simply because thailand changes without telling anyone.

Why not actually clamp down on the problem instead of use this fuzzy and poor control method (which wont change much IMO) at borders.

[LivinLOS]

I think that the Thai government should only allow one 90-day tourist visa per year. After that, a long-term visitor could buy a one-year "visitor" visa for 100,000THB. Of course, we'll read the nonsensical postings that this would destroy the economy, the housing market, and and and...

Superb.. sign me up..

100k per annum for no hassle visa, who wouldnt jump on that ??

Problem is no such beastie exists.. So people who wish to stay here are pushed into the 'tousist' visa class.

[LivinLOS]

Yes 100k seems a little excessive to say the least.

Isnt PR less than that if married to a Thai?

As a point of interest what would Thaivisa members be prepared to pay for a 1 year 'tourist' visa to Thailand.

Dare I suggest 25k? Any offers?

100k no brainer..

At 150 - 200k I would think its getting a little high, simply as I enjoy my visa runs / vacations around the region. Of course if land ownership could be assured at that price again they would have a ongoing revenue stream built in. any lapse in the payment and you have 6 months to find a buyer / Thai national.