Is Anti Spyware Really Necessary?

[crabstix]

Just want to know if anti spyware is really necessary.

I have windows firewall and nod 32 protecting my pc. I have no anti spyware installed and my pc seems to be ok.

Will something bad happen to my pc eventually if I surf with no anti spyware programme?

[onnut]

Yes it is I am afraid. but you do not need to pay for it though,

go to www.download.com and you will find most things you need to protect your pc. free of charge

[britmaveric]

A couple of anti-spyware software is unfortunately necessary these days.

[youngkiwi]

Spybot, a free download from www.spybot.de is one of the best free anti-spyware choices. Easy to install and maintain. If you are really paranoid, you can run Lavasoft Ad-aware alongside of it.

[Mighty Mouse]

You can download the free anti-spyware programs, install them and foolishly believe that your system is safe. Then after a while you can install a good anti-spyware program that will find a whole host of nasties in your system that the free programs failed to detect.

I use a program called CounterSpy. It costs $20 per year. It's not foolproof but it's a huge improvement on the freebie programs.

[ballbreaker]

Learn to setup different types of user accounts on your computer then only surf the internet with user account that has limited privileges. Like the guest account.

I always operate my computer using a limited privilege account unless I want to install new software.

[adjan jb]

Spybot, a free download from www.spybot.de is one of the best free anti-spyware choices.

Spybot is not that good. It fails to detect some hijackers.

[dsys]

I don't run any third party, windows defnder is all i use (as well as AV and Firewall) Was running antibot from Norton but binned it. Never had a spyware problem yet.

[Plus]

Use safe browsers, like Opera. They don't pickup self-installing toolbars, add search engines, reset your homepage or do anything of the kind.

All the usual adware/lavasoft/dr what's his name/windows defender can't find anything to delete on my PC. I even had Counterspy on trial once - nothing.

[NanLaew]

I agree with the post that 'you get what you pay for.' And just because you have had no problems with minimal protection to date, there's no guarantee that it's not going to be a problem in the future. There are trojans and the like out there that happily disable your minimal 'protection' without you knowing.

If anything is free, you can be confident that it's not doing it's job. How many 'free' spy/AV utilities keep themselves updated automatically for example?

Having one fully paid and updated spycatcher running alongside one fully paid and updated AV program should be sufficient for most. The opposite extreme is to have too many programs doing the same thing. You end up with slow scans, lock-ups, program conflicts and crashes that starts to make you think you may have a problem. My recommendations?

Webroot Spy Sweeper for spyware and

Norton AntVirus for viruses.

Steer clear of those bundled internet security 'suites' of bundled spycatcher and AV software. I used to use paid ZoneAlarm and Adaware but they started losing the plot when they tried to be all solutions to all problems. Same goes for Norton; they started in the AV business and diversified and not all their 'bundles' have been a success story but their standalone AV products do the business.

I like the option that ballbreaker suggests of setting up a limited privelege user account for netsurfing. That means anything that sneaks in and tries to install itself will be simply denied access.

[nikster]

Don't use IE. That protects you from most stuff already. Opera is probably even safer than Firefox since it has less market share (it's great, too).

I used only free anti-spyware, and only on demand,e.g. when I noticed that I had gone to a stupid web page that I probably shouldn't have, never had a problem.

Anti-Spyware, like AV software, is written to make itself seem more important. E.g. the alarm bells go off even if there isn't anything to get concerned about. For example, Ad-Aware marks all tracking cookies as spyware. Tracking cookies are a normal reality of the internet, and most serve a useful purpose like logging you into a forum automatically. Even if they were "abused" the worst that could happen is that somebody gathers data on how often you have visited a website - big deal. They are not spyware. This is one reason I severely dislike AV and Anti spyware software. I only used AV software on-demand, too, was good enough when taking some additional precautions. In fact, the most effective protection is hardening your system - you can make Windows pretty secure when you turn a few things off.

I am not going to make any snide remarks to the effect that I simply don't have that problem on the Mac... oh, whoops! Guess I just did

Edited February 8, 2008 by nikster

[A_Traveller]

One thing I use is Comodo BOClean, which works on the principal that for the spy-ware to work it has to perform in a specific manner, which is then caught and the file activity stopped. LINK.

Regards

PS When there are enough macs in the net-ecosystem then they'll be worth targeting

Edited February 8, 2008 by A_Traveller

[Plus]

Tried Comodo, too. Nothing to catch without using IE.

[Veazer]

...My recommendations?

Webroot Spy Sweeper for spyware and

Norton AntVirus for viruses.

If anyone is interested, you can get Webroot for free for 12 months from here. They will send you a valid serial.

Then use these download links to get the program:

Windows 2000, XP or Vista, click here to start the download.

http://sales.webroot.com/downloads/registe...sspsetup1_1.exe

Windows 98se or ME, click here to start the download.

http://sales.webroot.com/downloads/registe...p45setup1_1.exe

[Obiwan]

Antispyware and antivirus is bulls***. I have been running windows for 15 years now and never had any problem, never had any antivirus stuff. It takes only time and is a pain somewhere. Just be carefull about running .exe-files. Take the recommended precautions and back the really important things up.

And ...when... it goes haywire then reinstalling everything is not the end of the world.

[freitag1]

just for your info. if you have the standard pantip xp setup you have a trojan on your computer. for whatever reason they do that but go out and check your computer or the world knows about your naughty pictures soon.

[Veazer]

Antispyware and antivirus is bulls***. I have been running windows for 15 years now and never had any problem, never had any antivirus stuff. It takes only time and is a pain somewhere. Just be carefull about running .exe-files. Take the recommended precautions and back the really important things up.

And ...when... it goes haywire then reinstalling everything is not the end of the world.

1. If you did have a trojan keylogger, etc. on your system but no detection in place, how would you know? You state you've never had a virus AND you've never used and anti-virus app. Isn't that akin to saying you currently have no health problems or diseases but you've never been to a doctor?
   
2. Backups of infected files are still infected files.
   
3. There's more ways to get malware infections than carelessly running .exe files. You could easily get a virus by visiting a malicious website using a less than up-to-date web browser. Or letting a friend check email on you computer, at which point they plug in their virus ridden handy drive to send photos to a friends... The list goes on.
   

EDIT: typo

Edited February 10, 2008 by Veazer

[Obiwan]

Oh yes i did run some antivirus/spyware sometimes, but all they found were cookies like from doubleclick. Had AGV installed sometimes and check the whole system. it found nothing. I incidentally run Xraypc and google the results if they are ok. I Have also windows xp firwall and a hardware firewall in the router.

All I wanted to say is that all these Virus/Spyware programs probably cost more time to run in the end and makes the pc much less snappy than a clean and unprotected PC that you have to reconfigure when it goes wrong. Think about all the updating hassles (The latest virusses will get through anyway). Startup scans... Slower quick switching between users.... false alerts.....

My idea is that it is all a big scare that everyone is repeating to each other. Just like is: birdflu, acid rain, global warming, wmd's etc...

Just be a litte bit carefull with what you open and know your system...

[m02]

I had some serious malware problems last year apparently due to an infected CD. Couldn't get rid of the problems until I went through the steps setout at Castlecops. There may be better anti-malware help sites but I haven't come across them. If you still have problems after going through the self-help process they have real live people who will take all the time necessary to walk you through the more technically and sophisticated procedures - all for free.

Be aware of scams. A friend of mine had a program, I've forgotten the name, that he initially thought was great as it found all these threats; the problem of course was that the free 'trial' version only 'found' the malware files but to 'eliminate' them he had to buy an upgrade. All the so called malware files were fictious - a spurious list of non-existing files that no other anti-malware program or file searches could ever find.

The programs listed below were all recommended by CastleCops; all are free and it was my experience that their claims regarding the identification of malware programs was fact. No one program found all the malware or even the same ones, but between them my computer problems were cleared up. All of these are easily updated, and AVG can be scheduled to run automatically. Good Luck.

CastleCops main page: http://wiki.castlecops.com/

Main anti-malware page: http://wiki.castlecops.com/Malware_Removal...ntion:_Overview

I'm only running AVG continuously, and do scans with the others whenever I think about it: so far this includes:

CCleaner: http://www.ccleaner.com/downloadbuilds.asp

Ad-Aware: http://castlecops.com/downloads-file-451.html

SuperAntiSpyware: http://www.superantispyware.com/

Regarding On-line scanners I liked the BitDefender site: http://www.bitdefender.com/scan8/ie.html

but any of these major sites will do I guess:

Panda ActiveScan

The Online Panda Scan flags both viruses and spyware, but will only disinfect viruses.

http://www.pandasoftware.com/products/activescan.htm

F-Secure's Online Scanner, claims it has incorporated rootkit detection capabilities

http://support.f-secure.com/enu/home/ols.shtml

Pc-Cillin (Trend Micro Housecall)

http://housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/start_pcc.asp

*For some reason my computer, running XP pro, will not run their online program regardless of the browser used. I could run it when my OS was Win98..

eTrust Antivirus Web Scanner

http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/virusinfo/scan.aspx

[Obiwan]

I had some serious malware problems last year apparently due to an infected CD. Couldn't get rid of the problems until I went through the steps setout at Castlecops. There may be better anti-malware help sites but I haven't come across them. If you still have problems after going through the self-help process they have real live people who will take all the time necessary to walk you through the more technically and sophisticated procedures - all for free.

Be aware of scams. A friend of mine had a program, I've forgotten the name, that he initially thought was great as it found all these threats; the problem of course was that the free 'trial' version only 'found' the malware files but to 'eliminate' them he had to buy an upgrade. All the so called malware files were fictious - a spurious list of non-existing files that no other anti-malware program or file searches could ever find.

The programs listed below were all recommended by CastleCops; all are free and it was my experience that their claims regarding the identification of malware programs was fact. No one program found all the malware or even the same ones, but between them my computer problems were cleared up. All of these are easily updated, and AVG can be scheduled to run automatically. Good Luck.

CastleCops main page: http://wiki.castlecops.com/

Main anti-malware page: http://wiki.castlecops.com/Malware_Removal...ntion:_Overview

I'm only running AVG continuously, and do scans with the others whenever I think about it: so far this includes:

CCleaner: http://www.ccleaner.com/downloadbuilds.asp

Ad-Aware: http://castlecops.com/downloads-file-451.html

SuperAntiSpyware: http://www.superantispyware.com/

Regarding On-line scanners I liked the BitDefender site: http://www.bitdefender.com/scan8/ie.html

but any of these major sites will do I guess:

Panda ActiveScan

The Online Panda Scan flags both viruses and spyware, but will only disinfect viruses.

http://www.pandasoftware.com/products/activescan.htm

F-Secure's Online Scanner, claims it has incorporated rootkit detection capabilities

http://support.f-secure.com/enu/home/ols.shtml

Pc-Cillin (Trend Micro Housecall)

http://housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/start_pcc.asp

*For some reason my computer, running XP pro, will not run their online program regardless of the browser used. I could run it when my OS was Win98..

eTrust Antivirus Web Scanner

http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/virusinfo/scan.aspx

The story above is a good example of the problems you can get when you are so scared of spyware/virusses . A frend of mine sent everyone an email that her computer was infected and everyone had to look for and delete one certain file of the system, and sent all his contacts a copy of the mail. Of course this was just an important system file.

As long as everybody is scared companies lile Norton can be happy. (who is funding these virus-writers anyway)

[harleyclarkey]

My com messed up pretty bad last week to the point of crashing and not rebooting. The problem came in through a zip folder on MSN. I was chating and it came with.."see our photo, Don't we look good together" I thought it was from the babe. I saved the file, scanned it with AVG which passed it as safe and bingo....a Trojan...Vundo. Hard to remove. IIt was my fault for opening the file as AVG could not get to the zipped part of it. Windows DID warn me and I stupidle ignored it.

You need all the help nowadays to keep your com safe. The best...matter of opinion as always!...is Spy Sweeper. It is advised to have 2 spyware programmes. so maybe Spybot as well....or Spyware blaster. I would also add Adaware.

I am assuming you have virus protection?? Get AVG...still good.

[juicyas]

Oh yes i did run some antivirus/spyware sometimes, but all they found were cookies like from doubleclick. Had AGV installed sometimes and check the whole system. it found nothing. I incidentally run Xraypc and google the results if they are ok. I Have also windows xp firwall and a hardware firewall in the router.

All I wanted to say is that all these Virus/Spyware programs probably cost more time to run in the end and makes the pc much less snappy than a clean and unprotected PC that you have to reconfigure when it goes wrong. Think about all the updating hassles (The latest virusses will get through anyway). Startup scans... Slower quick switching between users.... false alerts.....

My idea is that it is all a big scare that everyone is repeating to each other. Just like is: birdflu, acid rain, global warming, wmd's etc...

Just be a litte bit carefull with what you open and know your system...

I totally agree with obiwan. I have used computers online for the last 11 years and have gone relatively virus free. I end up having a harddrive crash due to mechanical fault, reinstall windows or buy a new one before anything bad happens. I got norton installed bundled with my last laptop and it drove me nuts for 3 months with all it's warnings and updates and weekly checks slowing down my system.

[Obiwan]

My com messed up pretty bad last week to the point of crashing and not rebooting. The problem came in through a zip folder on MSN. I was chating and it came with.."see our photo, Don't we look good together" I thought it was from the babe. I saved the file, scanned it with AVG which passed it as safe and bingo....a Trojan...Vundo. Hard to remove. IIt was my fault for opening the file as AVG could not get to the zipped part of it. Windows DID warn me and I stupidle ignored it.

You need all the help nowadays to keep your com safe. The best...matter of opinion as always!...is Spy Sweeper. It is advised to have 2 spyware programmes. so maybe Spybot as well....or Spyware blaster. I would also add Adaware.

I am assuming you have virus protection?? Get AVG...still good.

What was the filetype of that picture? Uncheck "hide extentions for known file tpes" in folder options.

Maybe you inadvertedly openend an 'exe' or other active filetype because the filetype is hidden by default. Jpg should be ok to open anyway. If someope sent you a picture that is not jpg then it is at least conspicious.

[keekwai]

1. Partition your hardisk into C: and D:

2.Use C: PURELY for Windows and your Program Files

3.Store all your data,documents etc on the D: drive.

4.After everything is set up nicely .. backup the C: (system) drive with something like "Paragon DriveBackup (free)" to a folder on the D:Drive.

5.Don't use I.E .. Firefox or Opera is better.

6.Cruise along without annoying firewall messages, permissions to do this, permissions to do that etc etc .. and if you are unlucky enough to get some terrible virus thats unfixable .. just restore the "C: System backup from the D: Drive.All your data and docs are still on the D:Drive.

As for emails .. I just use "Thunderbird Portable" .. installed on the D: Drive also. I also have it backed up on a thumb drive. Backups are your friend.

Oh .. and did you notice that word "backup" I just used? ... treat it like a religion and you wont have any problems.

Edited February 10, 2008 by keekwai

[nikster]

Antispyware and antivirus is bulls***. I have been running windows for 15 years now and never had any problem, never had any antivirus stuff. It takes only time and is a pain somewhere. Just be carefull about running .exe-files. Take the recommended precautions and back the really important things up.

And ...when... it goes haywire then reinstalling everything is not the end of the world.

1. If you did have a trojan keylogger, etc. on your system but no detection in place, how would you know? You state you've never had a virus AND you've never used and anti-virus app. Isn't that akin to saying you currently have no health problems or diseases but you've never been to a doctor?
   
2. Backups of infected files are still infected files.
   
3. There's more ways to get malware infections than carelessly running .exe files. You could easily get a virus by visiting a malicious website using a less than up-to-date web browser. Or letting a friend check email on you computer, at which point they plug in their virus ridden handy drive to send photos to a friends... The list goes on.
   

EDIT: typo

1. Trojans aren't _that_ subtle. In addition, they are really hard to get if you are careful, or in other words, really easy to avoid. I check Windows tasks when suspicious things happen. But I must admit, a keylogger might slip through if it's hidden via a root kit. But then again, I am somewhat paranoid about online banking, so I don't do that from the PC. Only from the Mac. I could also do it from my ubuntu install, I suppose. But that's just me.
   
2. Backups are for data, so you can restore the data when reinstalling the system. Data files don't "get infected".
   
3. I don't use a not up to date web browser - hard to do anyway since Firefox updates automatically. Friends have actually plugged in their virus ridden handy drive in my PC, you know what happened? Nothing. I had turned off Windows Autoplay with TweakUI a long time ago, and without autoplay, no virus can install themselves via media. I actually found the virus for them and wiped it off with AVG.
   

Harden your system; turn off autoplay, turn on auto updates and firewall, and turn off all those unused services with a program that does it for you like Secure-IT. Be a little bit careful and don't run executables you get via email / chat, or at least send them through GMail first. Don't visit shady warez sites and don't download keygen.exe from them. And you will be spyware and virus free. Without all the hassle of an AV program.

[dsys]

Harden your system; .

upgrade to vista, seriously though.

If you know how to reduce your attack surface you don't need the overhead. If you don't know. you need all the help you can get so install what you feel comfortable with.

I guess it's hourses for courses.

The debate is endless - each user needs to find their own level of comfort.

<flame on>

[Obiwan]

Harden your system; turn off autoplay, turn on auto updates and firewall, and turn off all those unused services with a program that does it for you like Secure-IT. Be a little bit careful and don't run executables you get via email / chat, or at least send them through GMail first. Don't visit shady warez sites and don't download keygen.exe from them. And you will be spyware and virus free. Without all the hassle of an AV program.

Apart from all the good advise in this thread two things more about using Outlook Express:

1. Enable the option: "read all messages in plain text" instead of html. Prevents a lot of spam as noone will know you looked at the spam message. No scripts will run as only text is displayed. Every message will be safe to open. (but not the attachments)

2. Disable the preview pane, then the messages don't open automatically.

[Veazer]

1. Trojans aren't _that_ subtle. In addition, they are really hard to get if you are careful, or in other words, really easy to avoid. I check Windows tasks when suspicious things happen. But I must admit, a keylogger might slip through if it's hidden via a root kit. But then again, I am somewhat paranoid about online banking, so I don't do that from the PC. Only from the Mac. I could also do it from my ubuntu install, I suppose. But that's just me.
   
2. Backups are for data, so you can restore the data when reinstalling the system. Data files don't "get infected".
   
3. I don't use a not up to date web browser - hard to do anyway since Firefox updates automatically. Friends have actually plugged in their virus ridden handy drive in my PC, you know what happened? Nothing. I had turned off Windows Autoplay with TweakUI a long time ago, and without autoplay, no virus can install themselves via media. I actually found the virus for them and wiped it off with AVG.
   

Harden your system; turn off autoplay, turn on auto updates and firewall, and turn off all those unused services with a program that does it for you like Secure-IT. Be a little bit careful and don't run executables you get via email / chat, or at least send them through GMail first. Don't visit shady warez sites and don't download keygen.exe from them. And you will be spyware and virus free. Without all the hassle of an AV program.

1. I just finished helping a windows user last week who lost her gmail and yahoo account due to a keylogger. It was certainly subtle for her! She had no idea until she lost control of the accounts and started to get suspicious of her pc. I don't know how she got it, most likely doing something stupid, but a decent AV like NOD32 would likely have prevented the incident.
   
2. Backups are not solely for data, they are for whatever you want to backup. I backup my portable apps folder routinely. And besides, data *can* get infected. There's been macro viruses in MS word .doc files (anyone remember Melissa?), .wmf viruses, .wmv viruses, etc. They're not nearly the threat posed by executable viruses but they do exist.
   
3. I know you're smart enough to keep things up-to-date and secure, but the average user is unfortunately less knowledgeable about disabling autorun and they're often running IE6 as it was installed from their XP disc. When repairing PCs, i still see a fair amount of XP machines that haven't even had SP1 installed.
   

Like dsys said:

"If you know how to reduce your attack surface you don't need the overhead. If you don't know. you need all the help you can get so install what you feel comfortable with."

The average user in this forum is far more saavy than the typical user out there and can get around without AV if they're cautious, but otoh I would never consider setting up an office environment or customer's pc without any sort of protection. That's why the statement of AV being bullsh*t was something I strongly disagreed with, in many scenarios it's outright necessary. My stance on the use of AV was taking clueless users into account as well. I've worked with many people who don't know how to increase the security of their system and don't want to know. You could tell them to never open anything with an .exe extension and they will do it hours later. Try working as a network admin for awhile, you will lose all faith in human intelligence. It's frustrating and ultimately the best choice for these types is fulltime AV running in the background.

For me personally, I wouldn't go without some protection but i'm also regularly working on virus riddled pcs and i don't want to let that into my system. A little scanning overhead, when needed, is a small price to pay imho.

Then again, Ubuntu is looking mighty appealing these days.

Apart from all the good advise in this thread two things more about using Outlook Express:

1. Enable the option: "read all messages in plain text" instead of html. Prevents a lot of spam as noone will know you looked at the spam message. No scripts will run as only text is displayed. Every message will be safe to open. (but not the attachments)

2. Disable the preview pane, then the messages don't open automatically.

Yup, I would also add:

1. Install VirtualPc or VMWare and have a decent Win2K or WinXP base installation. If you think a file might be dodgy, test it on the virtual PC first.
   
2. In addition to avoiding IE, I would use a script blocker like NoScript in Firefox
   

Cheers.

[dsys]

1. Install VirtualPc or VMWare and have a decent Win2K or WinXP base installation. If you think a file might be dodgy, test it on the virtual PC first.
   

That's the best advice i've read for a while about spyware/AV etc. If you are going to use "keygen.exe", for example, use it in a virtual space and go back a snapshot after.

simplistic and effective - brilliant advice.

Edited February 11, 2008 by dsys

[lopburi3]

This current thread is a reason to have some type of protection:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=168894