Aviation Department To Probe 12go Air Crash in Phuket

[Supaporn]

Two important facts of the Lufthansa incident. 1) Everyone arrived safely. 2) Lufthansa and German aviation authorities will surely investigate that incident very thoroughly. Ultimately, it's the investigations and the accountability that keep us safe.

Thanks to you all for being active supporters of our petition to get the crash of One-Two-Go and Udom Tantiprasongchai investigated. Keep those signatures coming!

I fully support your efforts - I would like to ask though how you expect to deliver this 'petition' to PM Samak. The Thai DCA is as responsible I would think or at least to some degree - they should be thoroughly investigated as well. Watching that news report I was embarrased for them how ignorant the lot of them appeared.

Alas, I hope it does some good - if not to just allow people to get something off their chests as I doubt PM Samak cares a wit.

[Felt 35]

1998 Surat Thani, Thailand

The flight from Bangkok crashed in a swamp when making its third approach after two aborted landing attempts in heavy evening rain. In addition to Thai passengers, citizens of the United States, Austria, Britain, Finland, Germany, Japan and Norway also died in the crash.

About a year later, Thai aviation officials said equipment had malfunctioned on the plane, contributing to the accident. However, an Airbus spokesman said at the time that the panel of inquiry had not informed the company of any fault with the aircraft.

Other possible explanations for the crash have also been leaked to the press, including pilot error.

The Thai government has never publicized any official findings it may have made about the cause of the crash.

2007 Phuket, Thailand

The accident occurred September 16 when the bidget carrier which left Bangkok for Phuket came down hard on the runway at Phuket airport amid heavy rain and strong crosswinds and skidded into a wooded embankment. The aircraft broke into two sections, caught fire almost immediately and was completely destroyed.

A sub-committee, headed by Mr. Wuthichai and which is assigned to investigate the cause of the tragedy will meet on February 14, he said, adding that the department is well equipped with personnel and equipment.

Mr. Wuthichai said he was confident that the cause of the accident would be known soon because the "black box" which contained vital information of the aircraft's operations prior to the accident is in the possession of the department.

No punishment will be imposed on any agency or personnel after completion of the investigation because the accident was beyond control, he added.

Hmm...

[Tony Clifton]

Here's some help on the wrap up of this joke of an investigation...

Foreign commercial pilots to face tougher scrutiny

BOONSONG KOSITCHOTETHANA

Foreign commercial pilots will face tougher scrutiny if they want to work for airlines and civil air service providers based in Thailand.

The new regulations are meant to prevent less qualified pilots from working for any Thailand-based air service providers as well as flying private aircraft as part of a new bid to improve flight safety.

The regulation, prepared by the Department of Civil Aviation (DCA), will be published as a royal decree no later than 90 days from now. It was prompted by recent serious incidents in Thai skies that involved foreign pilots.

On Sept 16 last year, the budget carrier One-Two-Go Airlines' MD-82 jetliner went down in strong winds and heavy rain after attempting to land at Phuket Airport. The crash left 89 dead and 41 injured. On Dec 15, an MD-80 flown by One-Two-Go was in a ''near-collision'' with Nok Airlines' Boeing 737-400 over Nakhon Sawan.

All of One-Two-Go's pilots were recruited from overseas. Many of them were from Indonesia, where air safety records are among the world's worst.

According to DCA deputy director-general Wuthichai Singhamanee, foreign pilots will be required to learn about the Thai aviation laws. They will be tested on regulations and their ability to communicate well in the cockpit.

Authorities say foreign pilots must undergo Cockpit Crew Resource Management (CRM) training to overcome any possible cultural differences between them and those under their command.

The CRM requirement became essential after DCA found in its inspections that Thailand-based airlines that employ foreign pilots suffered from these problems, thus posing a potential danger.

Furthermore, pilot competency in flying certain aircraft would be subject to closer scrutiny by the DCA, which will no longer authorise permits by merely looking at documents submitted or matching them with licences issued by authorities in other countries.

This means that DCA officials would personally cross-check a pilot's competency in flying a certain aircraft in his last session on a flight simulator, Mr Wuthichai told the Bangkok Post.

The additional requirements are not unique. Aviation regulators in countries including India, China and Malaysia have also applied them to foreign pilots.

The new regulations are likely to affect three Thailand-based airlines _ One-Two-Go and its parent Orient Thai Airlines, as well as Phuket Airlines _ whose fleets are flown almost entirely by foreign pilots. Their pilots are Indonesians, Australians and Filipinos.

Airlines in Thailand use foreign pilots partly because of a shortage of Thai pilots trained to fly specific aircraft and partly because they are are cheaper to hire. Most Thailand-based airlines use Thai pilots. The cockpit staff of Thai Airways International, which numbers nearly 1,400, are exclusively Thai.

Thai pilots are not subject to the new DCA rules because they are all trained in Thai aviation law.

[Taijitu]

The cause of this accident is quite clear IMO - the decision by the pilot in command to continue the approach into known hazardous weather conditions. For reasons already mentioned, this will probably never be publicly stated.

The factors contributing to the pilot error - company pilot selection, training and scheduling policies, as well as the general inability of copilots everywhere (but espcially in Asian cultures) to question the judgement of the aircraft commander, will continue to pervade the budget airlines in the region. IMO...

Mr. Cloudhopper, that about sums it up.

At the risk of offending sensibilities, both within the Forum Administration and amongst the readers/sunscribers to this topic, I would like to add the transcript of an e-mail that I received shortly after the crash. I have held on to this e-mail but, after reading through the contributions to this topic, I though that it was appropriate to air it now.The transcript was forwarded to me by a friend who flies, commercially, in SE Asia and the original agonizing note was written by a Training Captain of One-Two-Go Airlines. I have deleted all names except those that were made public knowledge after the incident.

Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:19 AM To: ****

Subject: Phuket MD-82 Crash

This was sent to me by a friend. It is an incredibly sad story of what happens when nobody listens. The hel_l with safety, the hel_l with fatigue and the hel_l with anything that does not improve the bottom line. There are people out there that do not belong in an aircraft cockpit. Always have been and always will be.

Unfortunately, this can be the result. It also points out the situation American pilots, forced to retire find themselves facing. Forced to go fly in some third world hellhole. You may have read about the crash of a MD82 in Phuket, Thailand http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070917/ap_on_...and_plane_crash

My friend, (who wrote the email below) used to fly as co-pilot with me on the B727 for Express One out of Dallas. He currently is a training captain on the MD82 for the same airline (One-Two-Go Airlines) who just had the crash. I thought his email may be of interest to you.

Hi XXXX,

Thank you for the note. Yes I am OK, but when all the facts come out, like most crashes it will be found it was totally unnecessary but was destined to happen. The captain was an Indonesian who was the chief pilot. I had almost brought him to a physical altercation on several occasions with my taunting of him. I was highly critical of him for allowing and promoting the incredible abuse of duty and flight time limitations. (1300 to 1500 hours flying calendar year 2006). Work schedules of 9 straight days and sometimes more. I would go up to him and ask him to sign a document (blank sheet of paper) saying that the company asked me to fly illegally again. I told them I would as soon as he would sign the papers allowing it. It drove him nuts. I kept doing it. The man had failed his medical recently and was grounded for two months. He must have suffered from low blood sugar because all my First Officers would complain or laugh that he would always fall asleep in the afternoon flights. Apparently he recognized this and asked to be scheduled for early morning flights. The crash occurred at 3:40 p.m.

The flight controls had to be taken from him on at least two occasions. One highly documented case occurred with the prime minister of Afghanistan on board. A safety pilot had observed his incompetence, reported the incident to company and he was removed from all subsequent flights with the prime minister. I laugh at my fellow Indonesian pilots. Of course they come to his defense in this crash with the words that "it was an act of God".

Maybe they are right.... God says that if you want to be a dumb shit, you deserve to die. **** .... he killed 3 very close friends of mine and I will never forgive him and I am not sure I can forgive myself. My only real purpose here was to teach the new Thai F/Os how to save their lives from people like Arief. Of the new Thai First Officers, Montri was the best. (Montri died in this crash). In fact, Montri had just been hired by Thai Airlines with a class date in October.

Montri had been particularly emotionally abused by this company. They did not really receive good instruction coming out of the simulators. He sat for two months before he did his bounces in the plane and he failed the first time. The company took 20,000 baht each month out off his paycheck to pay the costs incurred for a second set of bounces in the plane. ****, I could go on and on with the terrible abuses that go on here. Me, I was and am still physically and emotionally spent. I live everyday not knowing if the next day I will be fired. I have been told I am special here. I do not work illegally or knowingly fly unsafe airplanes.

Working with the new pilots has been fun and gratifying. I share stories and lessons I learned from you. For me you re enforced cockpit discipline and attention to detail that I still carry with me. Many times when I go to the MEL, my thoughts go to you and how you illustrated the importance to refer to it every single time, regardless.

I thank you and others for what you have taught me. I have no doubt that the mental preparation and discipline that you and **** and others illustrated to me, and I benefitted from, has saved my own life. I thank you so very much.

Sorry for writing so much. Last night was long and these are the first moments I have had to myself. Much crying and pain here. Cabin crewmembers beside themselves, pleading me to go and bring their crewmembers back. It is a very helpless feeling. Everyone here knows my feelings and that which I have been expressing for two years. One week ago, I was interviewed by two representatives from ICAO and I expressed to them that all of the ingredients for a disaster here had manifested. Yet I, nor anyone else could do a thing to stop it. Not sure what I will do from here ****, but I will always feel that I failed.... again.

Yours,

****

[MustaphaMond]

Most of the remains of the plane are still sitting on the field opposite the passenger terminal - where they were dumped a few months ago. It's only a few hundred metres from where I'm sitting right now.

As to the plane seats being for sale near Heroines Monument - since you can walk right up to to the wreckage and collect your own souveigners - then it's no surprise that bits are up for sale....

Simon

And any reconstruction was ruled out when cranes were used to drag the plane to its present location, and ther'es plenty of it left, ( "completely destroyed by fire," BS!!) covered with mosquito netting

For a lot more on 1-2 Go visit this forum, it's where pro pilots B& M and there is an online petition to get DA to do something

www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=292331&page=17

>>>>>>>>>Please let me say this about the Thai attitude toward safety, life, death and solutions to safety issues.

The saying, "Mai Pen Rai " loosely translates into, "I don't need to give a dam_n because nothing really matters..."

The culture is fatalistic and you better take that into consideration if you come here, or fly for a cheesy Thai airline.>>>>>>>

[MustaphaMond]

http://www.investigateudom.com/ is the link

[Supaporn]

We have over 1400 signatures on our petition requesting a transparent and independent investigation into the crash of OG 269, including a number of signatures from former Orient Thai pilots. Last week, we officially submitted our petition to PM Samak Sundaravej. See it here in Thai, and here in English.

Don't just b*** and moan about the corruption in Thailand. Use your keyboard to make a change.

All the cool people are signing.

www.InvestigateUdom.com

I hope we will see the 'response' when....or IF there is one. This is one topic that should never go away or forgetten till those with any blame get their due.

Good on you all that sign!

[thaigene2]

Sorry - but they are going to blame it on the foreign pilot. That's the way it works here.

[Supaporn]

Sorry - but they are going to blame it on the foreign pilot. That's the way it works here.

No need to be sorry - I think they should put some of the blame there. BUT they should crucify the upper echelon for allowing him to be there. The pilot is dead and cannot defend himself, even if he could. The likes of Udom are alive and well and should be cowering.

[john b good]

Do you think that the truth will ever be told here in the realm where face (and saving it) is about the single most important aspect of daily life.

The judge stated at the conclusion of the court of inquiry into one of the world's hundred most serious accidents (in terms of fatalities) "Air New Zealand, 28 Nov 1979, Near Mt. Erebus, Ross Ice Shelf, Antarctica, McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30" with 257 deaths, that much of the evidence given by or on behalf of the airline was "an orchestrated litany of lies"

In the case of the TG crash "Thai Airways, 11 Dec 1998, Near Surat Thani, Thailand, Airbus A-310-204 (with over a hundred deaths) the investigation went nowhere because "if they released their findings into the crash someone would lose face" I don't recollect that it has ever been released but then it is only coming up for ten years now isn't it.

Another thing that has been mentioned in this thread is that Thai's pilots are all Thai (100%) This should be a worry in it's self because many cannot speak English to save themselves.

Edited April 8, 2008 by john b good

[john b good]

My favorite non-family, non-pilot post on the petition:

"I just crossed Thailand off my list of possible vacation spots for my family's summer vacation.

Call it knee-jerk American myopia if you want (I know little about the facts surrounding the incident in question), but I will continue to write off Thailand until such a time as I hear that the Thai airline industry is cleaned up.

And, whether fair or not, I will probably tell others of my decision.

So why should you care? Well, consider all the signatures above mine. Whether you care to acknowledge it or not, commercial life has changed dramatically in the past 15 years. Your PR disaster is now a global one. You are living in a hyperaware, superconnected world. And that world is watching. But it won't watch forever. Eventually, if no new news emerges, the global community will form a consensus about Thailand and brand it as dangerous.

judging by the number of signatures, you really don't have very much time."

For more information on crash, the investigation, letters by Orient Thai pilots, some good works by the families and other assorted facts (such as the similarities to Surat Thani), see: http://investigateudom.com/timeline.php

Keep signing this petition. Keep commenting on this petition. Keep forwarding this petition.

So apart from this petition what is everyone doing. I suspect nothing.

I recommend that each and everyone of us write to family, friends and acquaintances & colleagues, (in the developed countries) and tell them all what a shonky approach to air safety exists here in the realm. Patch the link in the previous post to them all.

If people vote with their feet and don't fly with these shonky airlines maybe they will be forced out of business. And what better result could one wish for.

My wife used to work for Orient Thai and I can support everything that has said regarding abuse of maximum airtime hours etc.

[MustaphaMond]

Do you think that the truth will ever be told here in the realm where face (and saving it) is about the single most important aspect of daily life.

The judge stated at the conclusion of the court of inquiry into one of the world's hundred most serious accidents (in terms of fatalities) "Air New Zealand, 28 Nov 1979, Near Mt. Erebus, Ross Ice Shelf, Antarctica, McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30" with 257 deaths, that much of the evidence given by or on behalf of the airline was "an orchestrated litany of lies"

In the case of the TG crash "Thai Airways, 11 Dec 1998, Near Surat Thani, Thailand, Airbus A-310-204 (with over a hundred deaths) the investigation went nowhere because "if they released their findings into the crash someone would lose face" I don't recollect that it has ever been released but then it is only coming up for ten years now isn't it.

Another thing that has been mentioned in this thread is that Thai's pilots are all Thai (100%) This should be a worry in it's self because many cannot speak English to save themselves.

Two-Faced Thailand, Terrifying Thailand, TinyTwatLand --trying to think of a name for a website warning people about embarrassment taking precendent over safety ethics.

I. U.; Another safety issue: HKT ATC can't speak English either, or rather the accents are so thick they cannot be understood.

Please note: Still, NOBODY is saying what the loud "Crack" was.

The engines have not been tested, I feel sure comp. stall was involved.

In any case this was an wholly avoidable accident as the pilot should not have been landing in that weather. Yes Udom is a pig. Yes, Orient Thai and 1-2 Go ( 1-2 Die!) are sham operations, but weather was such a factor, I fear ( I know you lost your brother, but ) you're picking the wrong case to scrutinize.

Please consider a forum on the I.U. site... Thai Visa is not a forum for serious discussion regarding this issue or Thai authorities. (Too many ears.)

[Buchholz]

No punishment will be imposed on any agency or personnel after completion of the investigation because the accident was beyond control, he added.

--TNA 2008-02-09

That's not what an inquest has determined...

Thai airline "covered up failings behind crash which killed 90"

Eight British holidaymakers died when a Thai aeroplane crashed in a tropical storm because the pilots were poorly trained and exhausted after working illegal overtime, an inquest will hear today. The eight Britons were among 90 passengers who were killed when the domestic flight from Bankok crashed on the runway, snapped in two and burst into flames in a botched landing at Phuket Airport in September 2007. One-Two-Go, the budget Thai airline that operated the flight, has been accused by the victims’ families of trying to cover up a series of failures which contributed to the crash.

Leaked documents seen by The Daily Telegraph appear to show that officials at the airline, a subsidiary of Orient Air, falsified flight logs to conceal the fact that the pilots had exceeded the maximum number of hours they were allowed to work that week. In one leaked email, an executive at the budget airline wrote to a colleague: “One thing we must be concerned is the Insurer can ask for copies of the Aircraft Log Book. Is there someone we can trust that could help re-make the logbook?”

He went on to suggest ways of reducing the number of hours the pilots were shown to have worked, including marking certain days as time off and shortening recorded flight times. Lawyers representing the families of the eight British victims will tell an inquest in Lincoln tomorrow that the airline had also failed to provide its pilots with up-to-date training on landing in severe conditions. Investigators also found that three out of six wind shear detectors at Phuket Airport were not working at the time of the crash and that emergency vehicles were unable to move quickly enough around the narrow runways to reach the burning wreckage in time to save many of the victims. One-Two-Go was put on a blacklist of airlines banned from flying into the European Union following the crash in 2007.

Thai officials temporarily revoked its operating license, but the budget airline has now been integrated into its parent company, Orient Air, which continues to operate domestic and international flights.

Continues:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8396544/Thai-airline-covered-up-failings-behind-crash-which-killed-90.html

The Daily Telegraph - March 22, 2011

[Jimi007]

Pretty old news. I still remember the weather that day and I still think the landing should have been waved off. As i remember the plane that landed just before this flight had a rather rough landing... I hope their safety has improved, I just flew them last week and everything seemed fine... Other than being almost an hour late. But Phuket airport was packed and all flights were late... There is still only the one runway and they can't seem to be able to manage that, wonder what will happen with the airport expansion?

[Rimmer]

UPDATE

Airline 'disregarded safety' prior to Phuket crash

A budget airline that operated a plane which crashed in Thailand leaving 90 people dead "exhibited a flagrant disregard for passenger safety", a coroner has said.

The coroner, sitting in Lincoln, criticised the firm One-Two-Go, and its parent company Orient Thai Airlines.

Full story HERE

-- BBC 2011-03-24

[ginjag]

UPDATE

Airline 'disregarded safety' prior to Phuket crash

A budget airline that operated a plane which crashed in Thailand leaving 90 people dead "exhibited a flagrant disregard for passenger safety", a coroner has said.

The coroner, sitting in Lincoln, criticised the firm One-Two-Go, and its parent company Orient Thai Airlines.

Full story HERE

-- BBC 2011-03-24

Good honest straight to the point summing up. MY county LINCS==Did anyone here in authority follow it up and do anything, not care and lazy, as it will affect someones wallet. life and death here who cares a toss

[webfact]

Thailand’s aviation cover-up and Bonnie Rind

FROM ANDREW DRUMMOND

Bonne Rind is a fighter and she is appalled at a system which allows the bosses of an airline, which has flagrantly disregarded the safety of its passengers, to get off scot free.

She is talking about One Two Go and the crash in Phuket in 2007. But of course readers of the English language press in Thailand may not have noticed this week the progress of an inquest being held in the grounds of Lincoln Cathedral in England.

Bonnie no doubt remains unphased any more by the lack of any campaigning action by the Thai press. [more...]

Source: http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2011/03/24/thailands-aviation-cover-up-and-bonnie-rind/

-- ANDREW-DRUMMOND.COM 2011-03-23

[wintermute]

Do you think they really care about this? Most people have forgotten about it already since it's old news. The Thai press will bury it and officials will just shrug their shoulders. That's the risk you take when you get on transportation here..whether it be crashing planes, sinking ferries, buses/motorcycles driven by lunatics which eject passengers, or other "hazards" of living in Thailand. This country will never change and it doesn't want to because the people who make up the foundation don't see the necessity. People can make inquests and somber assessments abroad but the rich here are powerful and unethical..some might say downright evil at times. They don't care who they victimize as long as their company profits swell.