Tony Clifton Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hmm, they (the elites, the junta, whoever) gave PPP free reigns to run the country and now the whole country watches this "people power" with disgust, or maybe amusement - is this REALLY happening? Be patient, once a chicken' s head has been chopped off, it will helplessly flap it's wings and run frantically for a very short while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jingjoke Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 And some blinkered farangs on this forum wonder why Thailand gets bad foriegn press reports Naka. If people think Thailand has a negative image through the press back in the west then you should hear other Asian's opinions about the place. I should like to hear other Asian's opinions about the place: is this supposition or can you please direct us to sources? It would be good to know we farang are not alone in our stomachs churning on what is happening here. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Sad state of affairs. Thugs in top positions of gov't. Do the tough guys carry weapons to work? If someone visits their office and angers them, do they pull out a knife or gun to wipe 'em out? These are guys who shoot people point blank for accidentally stepping on their shoes (that's what prompted the night club shooting of the cop). Even if such things were to happen again, the sons of Chalerm have no hard place to fall. If Thai justice can't reprimand a guy who shoots a cop point blank in a crowded nightclub - who then runs out of the country for 2 months - then is there any such thing as a Thai justice or legal system? Incidentally, a Thai general harbored the suspect for a couple days before the creep slunked off to hide in Cambodia - but there's no law against 'harboring a fugitive' in Thailand (I asked a Thai lawyer). Every one of the witnesses to that blatant murder are cowards for not stepping forward and doing the right thing. I wouldn't appoint any of Chalerm's sons to watch over an abandoned pig sty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Would you be so brave as to step forward as a witness against Wan or Duang? No one can protect you from one of them holding you down and another shooting you point blank. The guy who held the victim is a role model for Thai youths now, democratically elected and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siripon Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 How about the proposal of Watana's son, the disgraceful and disgraced Chonsawat Asavahame, to be assistant-secretary to the Interior Minister? Outrageous. hopefully Sri Racha John can dig out some of the dirt on this scoundrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sao Jiang Mai Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well I am Thai (half) and trust me this sickens me and all my Thai friends and colleagues. Everyone simply shakes their heads. Thai politics are in a realm above and beyond all of us and at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to any of them what any of us think. It is an exclusive bad ass boy's club which is rotton to the core. Yuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveromagnino Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well I am Thai (half) and trust me this sickens me and all my Thai friends and colleagues. Everyone simply shakes their heads. Thai politics are in a realm above and beyond all of us and at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to any of them what any of us think. It is an exclusive bad ass boy's club which is rotton to the core. Yuck. yeah. But poor people love Chalerm, Samak etc. These are their heroes. That's how democracy works. To change it.....push for free press, get active and tell the democrats and others to pull their fingers out and actually be the politicians we need rather than inept publicity seekers with no policies. The only reason we have these losers is because the decent folk won't stand up and through their hats in the ring (mixed metaphors rock!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KireB Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 yeah.But poor people love Chalerm, Samak etc. These are their heroes. That's how democracy works. To change it.....push for free press, get active and tell the democrats and others to pull their fingers out and actually be the politicians we need rather than inept publicity seekers with no policies. The only reason we have these losers is because the decent folk won't stand up and through their hats in the ring (mixed metaphors rock!) Agreed. The majority of Thais wanted this government and to say that you didn't see this coming is not naive but ..... I have a lot of respect for the PAD and their followers,as they seem to be the only one in this whole country of mai-pen-lai-sheep to stand up and claim their rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john b good Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Putting pub brawls behind to become a ministerial aidePublic Health Minister Chaiya Sasomsap Chaovarat Chanweerakul on Monday defended a decision to appoint a bully son of the Interior Minister as an aide in his ministry. Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung's son Wan is slated to become the assistant secretary to Deputy Interior Minister Chaovarat Chanweerakul. The appointment will be formalised in tomorrow's Cabinet meeting. "In the past, society saw this boy in a scary way but I see him as a well-mannered and polite boy," Chaiya said. He compared Wan to Ong Kuliman, a notorious bandit in the Buddhist scriptures who reformed and reached enlightenment. He said he would designate Wan as a presenter in the awareness campaign against drinking and smoking, praising him as role model who has turned to public service after involving in pub brawls. The Nation I wonder why this should be a surprise. Anyway this administration is only being given a year to 18 months before it implodes so he might be back on the dole before too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john b good Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well I am Thai (half) and trust me this sickens me and all my Thai friends and colleagues. Everyone simply shakes their heads. Thai politics are in a realm above and beyond all of us and at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to any of them what any of us think. It is an exclusive bad ass boy's club which is rotton to the core. Yuck. I realise this will be embarrassment to people who possess the moral disposition and quailities of yourself and your friends however if sufficient numbers of right thinking Thai's were to start a movement to change what is and has been, Thailand might in the years to come advance from being a 3rd world country (if it can claim to be that now) to a 2nd or even in the future a developed nation, might be possible. Failing this Thailand will for the forseeable future remain as it is at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 To change it.....push for free press, get active and tell the democrats and others to pull their fingers out and actually be the politicians we need rather than inept publicity seekers with no policies. The truth is that Demcrats are already politicians that you (Thailand) NEED, but instead you choose politicians that you WANT. There aren't enough decent people in this country to vote for decent politicians. You get what you fully deserved. >>> Now, on a positive side, lots of those decent people were fooled by Thaksin, not so many were fooled by PPP, but lots were cheated when smaller "alternative" parties joined PPP coaltion. I guess next time all decent Thais will be united against anything that is remotely connected to the current government. Still that might not be enough to vote Democrats in. Some of decent Thais don't like the Democrats, but it's time to grow up - you won't get any better than that in this country, there are no alternatives, just like teenagers need to realise that everyone has to eventually pull their sleeves up, get a job, and slave away their lives, this is how world works. What Democrats are proposing might not be pretty, but it's the only way, get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveromagnino Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The truth is that Demcrats are already politicians that you (Thailand) NEED, but instead you choose politicians that you WANT. There aren't enough decent people in this country to vote for decent politicians. You get what you fully deserved. >>> Dems will never win Isaan; I was telling them just earlier today to pull finger and get a real potential coalition farmer party who can win and keep the seats in the NE, and just keep running the rest of the party how they do now. The top guys in the Dems are smart enough to know that they are a business orientated educated person's party - there is almost no chance that the rural poor will ever choose someone educated and well spoken like Apirak or Apiset when they can have a macho gangster like Chalerm or Samak. 'Kon Isaan mai chorp paak sa-tor' is the mantra out in Buriram. The guy I was speaking to (fairly senior Dem) said they felt extremely let down by Chat Thai, not that Chart Thai had switched sides, but they were not able to secure more of the PPP seats - target was 80 and they got 40 only; so the Dems were dead in the water from there; they knew straight away Banharn would be off like a rocket. Less than 50% of the population wanted PPP, but PPP got close enough to be able to form the coalition with pseudo PPP 'flavours' like Ruam Jai Thai (slightly more business) or some of the slight more rural flavour PPPs. Rural poor will never know what they need until a decent party based on actually looking after them (rather than flinging scraps) is set up to look after them. But I don't see ice forming for the ice skating ring over the Chao Phraya river just yet ho ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 And some blinkered farangs on this forum wonder why Thailand gets bad foriegn press reports Naka. If people think Thailand has a negative image through the press back in the west then you should hear other Asian's opinions about the place. I should like to hear other Asian's opinions about the place: is this supposition or can you please direct us to sources? It would be good to know we farang are not alone in our stomachs churning on what is happening here. Regards, Talk to them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nothingleftbutfaith Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well I am Thai (half) and trust me this sickens me and all my Thai friends and colleagues. Everyone simply shakes their heads. Thai politics are in a realm above and beyond all of us and at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to any of them what any of us think. It is an exclusive bad ass boy's club which is rotton to the core. Yuck. I understand your disgust and share it. Don't think that nothing can be done about it. Read European history books and you will find the key to overturn such a rotten system , is one and only . I will let you find it by yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Maybe this is no bad thing. Its just one of the many straws that are being put on the camels back that will eventually break it. The sheer contempt of this motley crew for the people can only help to speed up the removal of this so called government. However when the street protests start up again, and they will, you have to be fearful for the safety of those prepared to take to the streets with these gangsters in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Dems will never win Isaan; I was telling them just earlier today to pull finger and get a real potential coalition farmer party who can win and keep the seats in the NE Politicians who win elections in Isan and Democrats are incompatible, it has never worked, and probably never will. What they should do is win big enough elsewhere and then try to show TRT fans that there are other ways of lifting Isan out of poverty, something that really works. Generally speaking, Isanese must change their ways, it's unavoidable, they can't go on like that and rely on milking central government forever. This long term problem is probably the worst legacy of TRT's populism, and people knew and warned the country about it ong time ago, and Democrats realised it probably earlier than anyone else. Unforunately it was "give Thaksin the chance" brigade of half wits that ruled the day in 2000. Democrat voter base is growing, while Isan is shrinking, time is on Dems side, they just need to be patient. They are doing it in service of the nation, they shouldn't be motivated by results only, or they will never pull it through. If Democrats collapse, there's no hope for this country whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Dems will never win Isaan; I was telling them just earlier today to pull finger and get a real potential coalition farmer party who can win and keep the seats in the NE Politicians who win elections in Isan and Democrats are incompatible, it has never worked, and probably never will. What they should do is win big enough elsewhere and then try to show TRT fans that there are other ways of lifting Isan out of poverty, something that really works. Generally speaking, Isanese must change their ways, it's unavoidable, they can't go on like that and rely on milking central government forever. This long term problem is probably the worst legacy of TRT's populism, and people knew and warned the country about it ong time ago, and Democrats realised it probably earlier than anyone else. Unforunately it was "give Thaksin the chance" brigade of half wits that ruled the day in 2000. Democrat voter base is growing, while Isan is shrinking, time is on Dems side, they just need to be patient. They are doing it in service of the nation, they shouldn't be motivated by results only, or they will never pull it through. If Democrats collapse, there's no hope for this country whatsoever. I am sorry but just how much has Isaan milked the central government? There has been almost no investment or development there in the past and they have been told to accept their lot in life, ie its fate and what happens happens - absolute <deleted> and just like the rest of Asia they want modernity. Slowly but surely they are coming to realise the power of the ballot box after being shit on for years, investment and development going elsewhere. Yes they need to change, but change by getting educated, seeing the rule of law as desirable and not the thuggery that is allowed under this and previous governments. The march to modernity means equality of opportunity, better education and better health care leading to decreased child mortality etc. Oh wait a minute - they are just poor uneducated subsisdtence farmers - they should just have suffient for their needs - a bowl of rice, backbreaking work in the rice fields and sending their daughters to marry farang at best or work in bar's at worst - they should know their place in life eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I am sorry but just how much has Isaan milked the central government? Show my ONE current government policy that is anything but milking central government. It's been snowballing and it's only going to get worse. If they really need investment, they had six years under their beloved Thaksin, how much did he invest there? Nothing. Maybe the truth is that free rides and easy money is ALL they need (or the think they need, or, actually, they've been told they need). There are poor people everywhere in Thailand, but PPP has confined themselves to Isan only (plus some parts of the North). Why is that? Why the South, for examle, doesn't feel like they've been neglected and their party hasn't been in the government for years? The problem is not with central government, and not with the poor either, it's the local politicians who don't really give a fuc_k about their electorate. Southerners got a better deal with them, Isanese keep voting for thugs who rob them blind. The current goverment is a perfect example, maybe even Isanese can finally notice that, but I won't bet on it yet. I don't know what drives them, maybe they are not as smart as you'd like them to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Sorry to jump into your debate here guys, but lets look at the opening post one more time: Wan Yoobamrung has been appointed a high level position in the new government. A draft-dodger accused of aiding in a murder of a policeman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 "I don't know what drives them, maybe they are not as smart as you'd like them to be." So you think they are inately stupid - that their average intelleigence is lower than other average human beings? Its lack of opportunity - nothing else. You blame only local politicians but in facts its not just locals, it central politicians, central elites and even middle class. You just have to look at the opinions of some on here. Just as the rest of Asia is seeing what modernity will bring so will the people of isaan and they will demand too just like the rest of Asia is moving forward now. Yes, it might be western values such as rule of law and economic freedoms that put them on the road but it might just have an Asia flavour and no longer will 12% of the worlds population in the west impose its will on the rest it might just be the majority of the poor and not just isaan wil deman their fair share in Thailand - or at least the opportunity to do so. Seems to me you are even more conservative than you profess - you want it all to stay the same as it is now in Thailand like many other farangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Sorry to jump into your debate here guys, but lets look at the opening post one more time:Wan Yoobamrung has been appointed a high level position in the new government. A draft-dodger accused of aiding in a murder of a policeman. If you really can not see how this is all linked to the political economy of Thailand then I really do not know what to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Nope, I do get it. But there are endless threads with exactly this debate going on at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 And, I have to add, most of them seem to be between yourself, Prakanong and Plus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidS Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Nope, I do get it. But there are endless threads with exactly this debate going on at the moment. The optimist in me hopes that he will be too busy to be a menace. The pessimist tells me this is just an inactive post, eyewash, and nothing has changed. I guess a really useful thread would be where not to go in order to minimise the chances of being shot. Rather like worst restaurants thread? "Be Safe - Avoid These Places." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 How about the proposal of Watana's son, the disgraceful and disgraced Chonsawat Asavahame, to be assistant-secretary to the Interior Minister? Outrageous. hopefully Sri Racha John can dig out some of the dirt on this scoundrel. Has already been done in the the "New Cabinet" thread.... It's certainly not "all" on this godfather mafia extended family, but it's enough of a start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well I am Thai (half) and trust me this sickens me and all my Thai friends and colleagues. Everyone simply shakes their heads. Thai politics are in a realm above and beyond all of us and at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to any of them what any of us think. It is an exclusive bad ass boy's club which is rotton to the core. Yuck. And I think that for every circle of friends and colleagues like yours, there is another circle in total admiration for these criminals. Sadly, looking at election results, I think that roughly 50% of the country are criminals or potential criminals and that they don't mind a little crime to get ahead and for criminals to run the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Well I am Thai (half) and trust me this sickens me and all my Thai friends and colleagues. Everyone simply shakes their heads. Thai politics are in a realm above and beyond all of us and at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to any of them what any of us think. It is an exclusive bad ass boy's club which is rotton to the core. Yuck. And I think that for every circle of friends and colleagues like yours, there is another circle in total admiration for these criminals. Sadly, looking at election results, I think that roughly 50% of the country are criminals or potential criminals and that they don't mind a little crime to get ahead and for criminals to run the place. Come on now, thats somewhat harsh, how much time do you spend in rural Issan ? These folks don't, or often can't, read newspapers. The Tv goes over their heads, it doesn't indulge in any real political debate anyway. During several discussions I had about TRT the answer was always along the lines that "all politicians are crooks but at least they (TRT) give us something". Not true of course, but its what people believe to be the truth that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Chalerm was a party list candidate was he not? So I guess he doesn't have any constituents to complain, but perhaps the Health Minister does? Regardless, I don't see how this decision has so much to do with Issan politics but rather the prevalence of nepotism and favoritism as displayed regularly in Thai politics and quite strongly in this particular Cabinet, which appears to be made up largely of the wives, parents and children of banned politicians. What's one more disgraced person invovled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Isanese voted for PPP, it's their creation. I don't know what they think of it, but some seem to imply that it's "elites" fault again. Didn't Isanese vote AGAINST the elites and chose the government of their own liking? Did they know what was coming? Did they care? Do they care now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Isanese voted for PPP, it's their creation. I don't know what they think of it, but some seem to imply that it's "elites" fault again.Didn't Isanese vote AGAINST the elites and chose the government of their own liking? Did they know what was coming? Did they care? Do they care now? Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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