Canadian shot on a songthaew in Chiang Mai

[sriracha john]

The bullet has been ID'd as a .22, but is the area of the shooting near the Chiang Mai Night Safari Big Game Hunting?

Thailand says hunter's bullet hit Canadian tourist

CHIANG MAI, Thailand - A Canadian tourist, shot while riding in a pickup truck in northern Thailand, may have been hit by a stray bullet from a hunter, police said on Thursday.

Erik Griffioen, a university lecturer from Ontario, was on trekking holiday with his wife when he was hit by a .22 bullet on Wednesday in the northern city of Chiang Mai, a popular tourist destination.

It was the fourth shooting involving Canadians this year.

"The bullet that hit him might have come from a bird hunter or someone who accidentally fired a gun," Police Lieutenant Colonel Thwatchai Punpigul said.

He said the truck had passed by a forested area when Griffioen was shot in the back. He was recovering in hospital after an operation to remove the bullet. "There is no motive to hurt him because he had no personal conflict with anybody," Thwatchai said.

Some 150,000 Canadians visited Thailand in 2006, among the more than 13 million foreigners who arrived in the Southeast Asian nation that year.

This latest shooting has raised questions in the Canadian media about safety in a country best known as the "Land of Smiles."

Last week, Canadian oil worker Dale Henry, 47, was shot dead in his home in the southern province of Ranong. Police have charged his Thai wife, her boyfriend and a gunman with murder. Henry's wife told police that he abused her, according to Thai newspaper reports. But Canadian media reports have quoted Henry's relatives as saying they believed he was killed for a C$1 million life insurance policy.

In January, a Thai policeman was charged with killing a Canadian man and attempting to kill his former girlfriend in the northern tourist town of Pai, a picturesque hill town popular with foreign backpackers.

- Reuters

[Andiamo]

The bullet has been ID'd as a .22, but is the area of the shooting near the Chiang Mai Night Safari Big Game Hunting?

Thailand says hunter's bullet hit Canadian tourist

CHIANG MAI, Thailand - A Canadian tourist, shot while riding in a pickup truck in northern Thailand, may have been hit by a stray bullet from a hunter, police said on Thursday.

Erik Griffioen, a university lecturer from Ontario, was on trekking holiday with his wife when he was hit by a .22 bullet on Wednesday in the northern city of Chiang Mai, a popular tourist destination.

It was the fourth shooting involving Canadians this year.

"The bullet that hit him might have come from a bird hunter or someone who accidentally fired a gun," Police Lieutenant Colonel Thwatchai Punpigul said.

He said the truck had passed by a forested area when Griffioen was shot in the back. He was recovering in hospital after an operation to remove the bullet. "There is no motive to hurt him because he had no personal conflict with anybody," Thwatchai said.

Some 150,000 Canadians visited Thailand in 2006, among the more than 13 million foreigners who arrived in the Southeast Asian nation that year.

This latest shooting has raised questions in the Canadian media about safety in a country best known as the "Land of Smiles."

Last week, Canadian oil worker Dale Henry, 47, was shot dead in his home in the southern province of Ranong. Police have charged his Thai wife, her boyfriend and a gunman with murder. Henry's wife told police that he abused her, according to Thai newspaper reports. But Canadian media reports have quoted Henry's relatives as saying they believed he was killed for a C$1 million life insurance policy.

In January, a Thai policeman was charged with killing a Canadian man and attempting to kill his former girlfriend in the northern tourist town of Pai, a picturesque hill town popular with foreign backpackers.

- Reuters

Even if "someone accidentally fired a gun", as stated by the Police Lieutenant Colonel above, the person/shooter is still responsible for any outcome. I wonder if this will be investigated thoroughly??????

[Frotting]

I found a site that carries the gun death statistics for several countries. The link is posted below.

The results of these statistics are amazing. The top three countries are at least an order of magnitude above the fourth, which unbelievably is Zimbabwe (I thought they would have ranked higher).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...arms-per-capita

I suppose this indicates that shootings of the kind we've been reading about here over the last month, are the rule, rather than the exception in Thailand. The rest of the world should be made aware.

Yes, that's the site your Chiang Mai article got it's statistics from, and has been discussed here before. Unfortunately, the statistic of 20,000 gun murders per year is wrong due to a mistranslation of the official Thai police statistics. 20k is the number of gun crimes, not gun murders, committed per year in Thailand. That includes murder, but also robbery, assualt, and illegal possession. Since these per capita statistics are based on the faulty 20k per year number, they are completely wrong as well. The total number of murders per year in Thailand is 5-6k, which per capita is twice as high as the US, but no where near as bad as is made out in the article you posted earlier. There do not appear to be statistics on the method of murder committed in Thailand.

I stand corrected about the figures, if what you say is true about them being flawed. I accepted them in good faith, since the source should have been reputable and why would anybody willingly want to distort figures.

Just as a point of interest and something that I can confirm. We live in Phetchabun (the main town) where the population is reported as around 22,000 in the last census. To our knowledge, there have been three shootings in the last year, two of which were in the recent 3 months. Two of the victims died, the survivor (a kid of 16) I saw riding his bike last week. So 2 deaths in the last year by shootings, population circa 20K - I'll leave you to do the maths. These were all 'face' incidents involving Thais only. Phetchabun is a quiet, sleepy province and not much goes on there. Of course, to collect meaningful statistics requires a longer sample period to even out the spikes. Nevertheless, it's still thought provoking.

[Claymore]

I found a site that carries the gun death statistics for several countries. The link is posted below.

The results of these statistics are amazing. The top three countries are at least an order of magnitude above the fourth, which unbelievably is Zimbabwe (I thought they would have ranked higher).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...arms-per-capita

I suppose this indicates that shootings of the kind we've been reading about here over the last month, are the rule, rather than the exception in Thailand. The rest of the world should be made aware.

Yes, that's the site your Chiang Mai article got it's statistics from, and has been discussed here before. Unfortunately, the statistic of 20,000 gun murders per year is wrong due to a mistranslation of the official Thai police statistics. 20k is the number of gun crimes, not gun murders, committed per year in Thailand. That includes murder, but also robbery, assualt, and illegal possession. Since these per capita statistics are based on the faulty 20k per year number, they are completely wrong as well. The total number of murders per year in Thailand is 5-6k, which per capita is twice as high as the US, but no where near as bad as is made out in the article you posted earlier. There do not appear to be statistics on the method of murder committed in Thailand.

I stand corrected about the figures, if what you say is true about them being flawed. I accepted them in good faith, since the source should have been reputable and why would anybody willingly want to distort figures.

Just as a point of interest and something that I can confirm. We live in Phetchabun (the main town) where the population is reported as around 22,000 in the last census. To our knowledge, there have been three shootings in the last year, two of which were in the recent 3 months. Two of the victims died, the survivor (a kid of 16) I saw riding his bike last week. So 2 deaths in the last year by shootings, population circa 20K - I'll leave you to do the maths. These were all 'face' incidents involving Thais only. Phetchabun is a quiet, sleepy province and not much goes on there. Of course, to collect meaningful statistics requires a longer sample period to even out the spikes. Nevertheless, it's still thought provoking.

Here's is another thought provoking figure for your maths. Dr. Pornthip claimed last week that approx 10,000 unidentified bodies were found in Thailand last year and did not get post mortems. Outside her there are only 6 qualified pathologists in the country at the beck and call of police (She works for Ministry of Justice).

Mmm thats about half the population of Phetachabun, which btw, is a source for many of the country's hitmen. Most of the 10,000 she believes may have been from neighbouring countries. Its much more dangerous to be a Lao, Khmer or Burmese 'tourist'. These were not recorded as murders. If they were,together with the 2-3000 from the War on Drugs, statistically Thailand would not look quite so peaceful.

[A_Traveller]

There was no personal element against the posters in my cri de coeur re these stats, but they have and continue to distort the viewpoint. However, I agree wholeheartedly that violence here, both with and without firearms is a major, and it seems growing, problem. There is [un]surprisingly little study about it, and there is a tendency to view it as a 'rural' {or imported into the cities by same} issue, whilst ignoring the incandescent activities of those whom some would describe as 'hi-so', the Mini incident in Emporium anyone?.

Regards

[Payboy]

The vicitm's wife might be able to roughly gauge where, during the drive, her husband slumped over. From that general area, police could investigate upper level places where a shooter could have been.

we can then rule out the 2nd gunman in the library and a 3rd one on the grassy knoll...

[Bardamu]

I found a site that carries the gun death statistics for several countries. The link is posted below.

The results of these statistics are amazing. The top three countries are at least an order of magnitude above the fourth, which unbelievably is Zimbabwe (I thought they would have ranked higher).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...arms-per-capita

I suppose this indicates that shootings of the kind we've been reading about here over the last month, are the rule, rather than the exception in Thailand. The rest of the world should be made aware.

Yes, that's the site your Chiang Mai article got it's statistics from, and has been discussed here before. Unfortunately, the statistic of 20,000 gun murders per year is wrong due to a mistranslation of the official Thai police statistics. 20k is the number of gun crimes, not gun murders, committed per year in Thailand. That includes murder, but also robbery, assualt, and illegal possession. Since these per capita statistics are based on the faulty 20k per year number, they are completely wrong as well. The total number of murders per year in Thailand is 5-6k, which per capita is twice as high as the US, but no where near as bad as is made out in the article you posted earlier. There do not appear to be statistics on the method of murder committed in Thailand.

I stand corrected about the figures, if what you say is true about them being flawed. I accepted them in good faith, since the source should have been reputable and why would anybody willingly want to distort figures.

Just as a point of interest and something that I can confirm. We live in Phetchabun (the main town) where the population is reported as around 22,000 in the last census. To our knowledge, there have been three shootings in the last year, two of which were in the recent 3 months. Two of the victims died, the survivor (a kid of 16) I saw riding his bike last week. So 2 deaths in the last year by shootings, population circa 20K - I'll leave you to do the maths. These were all 'face' incidents involving Thais only. Phetchabun is a quiet, sleepy province and not much goes on there. Of course, to collect meaningful statistics requires a longer sample period to even out the spikes. Nevertheless, it's still thought provoking.

Here's is another thought provoking figure for your maths. Dr. Pornthip claimed last week that approx 10,000 unidentified bodies were found in Thailand last year and did not get post mortems. Outside her there are only 6 qualified pathologists in the country at the beck and call of police (She works for Ministry of Justice).

Mmm thats about half the population of Phetachabun, which btw, is a source for many of the country's hitmen. Most of the 10,000 she believes may have been from neighbouring countries. Its much more dangerous to be a Lao, Khmer or Burmese 'tourist'. These were not recorded as murders. If they were,together with the 2-3000 from the War on Drugs, statistically Thailand would not look quite so peaceful.

I agree with you buddy. I talked to one of the chief investigators of homicide in CM recently and he told me there are a lot of unreported murders. In fact, the Nationmaster (that takes stats from WHO and CIA Factbook) is most probably a very light number. Thais, as we all know, don't really want to show their worst side . . . read other articles on torture, human rights abuses, murder . . . speak to (foreign)journalists, watch that idiot they have voted in deny that the massacre in 76 didnt happen . . . get out of your bubble . . . we live in a country with an alarming murder rate, a very dangerous country where people get shot daily all over the place . . . just ask a cop, ask a lawyer . . . and ask what the conviction rate is . . . while you're at it, ask how they manage to get so many people owning up to crimes so very quickly . . .

This is the wild west (east) and if you think any differently you're living in a dream.

[Bardamu]

There was no personal element against the posters in my cri de coeur re these stats, but they have and continue to distort the viewpoint. However, I agree wholeheartedly that violence here, both with and without firearms is a major, and it seems growing, problem. There is [un]surprisingly little study about it, and there is a tendency to view it as a 'rural' {or imported into the cities by same} issue, whilst ignoring the incandescent activities of those whom some would describe as 'hi-so', the Mini incident in Emporium anyone?.

Regards

A Traveller . . . can u tell me where you get your stats from . . . as seen as you can refute experts then it would be good to know just where you get your information that states previous posters/article are erronious/spurious . . . i'm sure you'll come up with a godd answer.

[Ned]

Let's hope these hot headed, easily offended killers and thrill shooters don't get into kidnapping big time a la Colombianos eh. Sure there's already a bit of that but nothing on an industrial scale.

I don't know about you guys but I check out the Thai Rath most days but in case I miss anything my wife fills me in on the grisly details contained in every edition. Some old bloke yesterday shot some young woman dead for deceiving him. Then killed himself I'm pleased to report. My wife thought she deserved it. Typical Thai believes in murder for the slightest affronts. Got a problem? Kill!

[A_Traveller]

A Traveller . . . can u tell me where you get your stats from . . . as seen as you can refute experts then it would be good to know just where you get your information that states previous posters/article are erronious/spurious . . . i'm sure you'll come up with a godd answer.

I'll have to take a little time so to do, since these stats were processed in 2002/03, if memory serves, with some source data being older, and I don't have to immediate hand the analysis that I, in the analogue, and I should say others undertook. This was also before I was a poster here, just a lurker, may I add. As has been noted herein, the source whilst giving the appearance of authority, took data provided by the Thai Government. During the process the numbers were either mistranslated, or misunderstood {or the request was} and the resultant data set literally doesn't add-up.

A simplistic but relevant example,

Total Murders, causation FireAms 20,032

but

Total Murders irrespective of causation 5,140

This data then creates the Murder Per Capita rates of 0.080/1,000 or 0.312/1,000 depending on causation!

Regards

PS On the Nationmaster site there's a summary page which shows total assaults as 20,125.

/edit attempt for clarity//

Edited February 15, 2008 by A_Traveller

[Smithson]

There is [un]surprisingly little study about it, and there is a tendency to view it as a 'rural' {or imported into the cities by same} issue, whilst ignoring the incandescent activities of those whom some would describe as 'hi-so', the Mini incident in Emporium anyone?.

Regards

What was the emporium mini incident?

[A_Traveller]

^ I've no wish to divert attention from the important points herein, so just a link.

Regards

[Briggsy]

Musing in multiple choice

1. The profit from Chiang Mai's songthaews is

a) a pittance equivalent to the minimum wage

enough for the driver to support his family without any lavish excess.

c) 'b' plus another large portion to be kicked upstairs to an influential person.

2. Public transport in Chiang Mai is

a) a protected monopoly.

a competitive and level playing field with a multitude of options for the commuter.

c) a non-profit making service provided by local government.

3. The main beneficiaries of any songthaew profits are

a) the drivers.

the local senior police.

c) an amorphous and ethereal organisation known as the mafia which has no links to or substance in any other organisation.

4. If I were cowardly and wanted to warn a songthaew to stay off my patch, I would

a) walk up to the driver and get real close and tell him if he picks up passengers here again, there'll be trouble

fire randomly at his songthaew as he drove past from a safe distance with an escape route.

c) punch him in the face.

5. Enforcers on the ground of any monopoly that may exist in public transport in Chiang Mai would be

a) well known to and closely associated with the main beneficiary

hired for the occasion

c) brought in from another area.

6. If I discovered that one of my idiot thugs had shot an eminent tourist whilst trying to frighten a songthaew driver, I would

a) offer him up to the police immediately and hope he did not turn against me.

blame another mafia

c) get my friends or colleagues in the police to suggest a non-existent bird hunter as the culprit to take the initial heat and then get them to arrest a member of the ethnic minorities or a Burmese who would be confessing before the morning.

I'm just letting my imagination run riot here.

[Tony Clifton]

The vicitm's wife might be able to roughly gauge where, during the drive, her husband slumped over. From that general area, police could investigate upper level places where a shooter could have been.

we can then rule out the 2nd gunman in the library and a 3rd one on the grassy knoll...

Which, in Thailand, often translates to a pillion passenger on the motorcycle or second passenger on the motorcycle who does the firing.

The article says they heard a loud bang and thought a tire had burst.

I have fired plenty of .22 in my younger days, pistol and mostly rifle, reason why I'll contribute with this.

It definitely doesn't sound like a bang, more like a single average firecracker pop that wouldn't even surprise you from a few meters away.

Shooting a .22 rifle doesn't even make your ears ring even though they're much closer to the barrel than shooting a .22 gun with arms extended. That's how soft .22 caliber is. ( .22 magnum excluded, never seen it but doubt it's significantly louder)

The .22 was shot from very close, as from a motorcycle, if it was perceived as a bursting tire.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[Gravelrash]

I found a site that carries the gun death statistics for several countries. The link is posted below.

The results of these statistics are amazing. The top three countries are at least an order of magnitude above the fourth, which unbelievably is Zimbabwe (I thought they would have ranked higher).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...arms-per-capita

I suppose this indicates that shootings of the kind we've been reading about here over the last month, are the rule, rather than the exception in Thailand. The rest of the world should be made aware.

Yes, that's the site your Chiang Mai article got it's statistics from, and has been discussed here before. Unfortunately, the statistic of 20,000 gun murders per year is wrong due to a mistranslation of the official Thai police statistics. 20k is the number of gun crimes, not gun murders, committed per year in Thailand. That includes murder, but also robbery, assualt, and illegal possession. Since these per capita statistics are based on the faulty 20k per year number, they are completely wrong as well. The total number of murders per year in Thailand is 5-6k, which per capita is twice as high as the US, but no where near as bad as is made out in the article you posted earlier. There do not appear to be statistics on the method of murder committed in Thailand.

I stand corrected about the figures, if what you say is true about them being flawed. I accepted them in good faith, since the source should have been reputable and why would anybody willingly want to distort figures.

Just as a point of interest and something that I can confirm. We live in Phetchabun (the main town) where the population is reported as around 22,000 in the last census. To our knowledge, there have been three shootings in the last year, two of which were in the recent 3 months. Two of the victims died, the survivor (a kid of 16) I saw riding his bike last week. So 2 deaths in the last year by shootings, population circa 20K - I'll leave you to do the maths. These were all 'face' incidents involving Thais only. Phetchabun is a quiet, sleepy province and not much goes on there. Of course, to collect meaningful statistics requires a longer sample period to even out the spikes. Nevertheless, it's still thought provoking.

Here's is another thought provoking figure for your maths. Dr. Pornthip claimed last week that approx 10,000 unidentified bodies were found in Thailand last year and did not get post mortems. Outside her there are only 6 qualified pathologists in the country at the beck and call of police (She works for Ministry of Justice).

Mmm thats about half the population of Phetachabun, which btw, is a source for many of the country's hitmen. Most of the 10,000 she believes may have been from neighbouring countries. Its much more dangerous to be a Lao, Khmer or Burmese 'tourist'. These were not recorded as murders. If they were,together with the 2-3000 from the War on Drugs, statistically Thailand would not look quite so peaceful.

I agree with you buddy. I talked to one of the chief investigators of homicide in CM recently and he told me there are a lot of unreported murders. In fact, the Nationmaster (that takes stats from WHO and CIA Factbook) is most probably a very light number. Thais, as we all know, don't really want to show their worst side . . . read other articles on torture, human rights abuses, murder . . . speak to (foreign)journalists, watch that idiot they have voted in deny that the massacre in 76 didnt happen . . . get out of your bubble . . . we live in a country with an alarming murder rate, a very dangerous country where people get shot daily all over the place . . . just ask a cop, ask a lawyer . . . and ask what the conviction rate is . . . while you're at it, ask how they manage to get so many people owning up to crimes so very quickly . . .

This is the wild west (east) and if you think any differently you're living in a dream.

The Thais would have denied the tragedy of the tsunami if they thought they could get away with it...err, just boat wash. I would agree with the post above. The moment the police start giving ridiculous "instant solutions" that invariably suggest they need do nothing, they are just admitting they know what it was about but are going to leave it alone. No doubt many Thais get it. A tourist gunned down in a major tourist centre...hunting accident. Next case. Tourists gunned down by police...self defence. Next case. Karen leader gunned down...internal squabbling. Next case. Previous massacres...never happened. Next case.

[Mark Pheart]

^ I've no wish to divert attention from the important points herein, so just a link.

Regards

What exactly is the connection between a pair of bimbo morons arguing in a high-end Bangkok department store and the shooting of a foreigner in a city many hundreds of KM away.

I have nothing relevant to add to this latest, tragic incident. So.......I add nothing.

I personally think this forum would be a lot better if clowns refrained from posting dumb, irrelevant trivia.

Seems to me that Mr A_Traveller has rather too much spare time on his hands.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Mark Pheart

[DP25]

A simplistic but relevant example,

Total Murders, causation FireAms 20,032

but

Total Murders irrespective of causation 5,140

This data then creates the Murder Per Capita rates of 0.080/1,000 or 0.312/1,000 depending on causation!

Regards

PS On the Nationmaster site there's a summary page which shows total assaults as 20,125.

/edit attempt for clarity//

It appears that the Thai police web site is not currently working, so I am unable to show you the official documents in the Thai language from which Nationmaster's source gets it's data from. None the less I will repeat what I said earlier. The 20,000 gun murders per year shown on that site is wrong. The 20k per year is not the number of gun murders, it is the number of gun crimes per year. 20k is the total number of guns confiscated by the Thai police during the year, and ranges from crimes of murder to illegal possession. It is a translation error, the person compiling the statistics looked for the Thai word for 'gun' and put the figure he found in to the 'gun murder' database, despite that figure actually NOT being the number of gun murders per year. The Thai police website used to have convenient pdf files of crime statistics, but currently it's giving me a 'parsing error' whenever I try to view the statistics. Maybe someone else can get it to work. http://statistic.ftp.police.go.th/gis/

The per capita murder rate in Thailand is twice what it is in the US, but it is NOT 20,000 per year. It is 5,000 per year, and there are no statistics on how many of those murders were commited with guns.

[A_Traveller]

^ I've no wish to divert attention from the important points herein, so just a link.

Regards

What exactly is the connection between a pair of bimbo morons arguing in a high-end Bangkok department store and the shooting of a foreigner in a city many hundreds of KM away.

I have nothing relevant to add to this latest, tragic incident. So.......I add nothing.

I personally think this forum would be a lot better if clowns refrained from posting dumb, irrelevant trivia.

Seems to me that Mr A_Traveller has rather too much spare time on his hands.

Thanks for the helpful comment, I was, if you read the sub-thread trying to draw attention to the propensity for confrontation, which escalates rapidly, which some view as being a 'rural' issue, not endemic within Thai society, irrespective of 'status'.

Regards

[CuriousGeorge77]

The per capita murder rate in Thailand is twice what it is in the US, but it is NOT 20,000 per year. It is 5,000 per year, and there are no statistics on how many of those murders were commited with guns.

Huh? 5,000 murders per person?

Also, nobody heard a shot. Either the gun used a silencer or the shot was from really far away. It ought to be relateivey easy to figure out if the bullet that hit the poor sod was one that was on its way back down to eart after being fired in the air, because the velocity of such a bullet would be far lower than one fired directly (largely due to air friction+the far larger distance the bullet travels)

If the angle is from above, and there are no high rises around, then it probably was just an accident and someone just got unlucky.

[Mosha]

A bang was heard. It said so in the news article.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Also, nobody heard a shot. Either the gun used a silencer or the shot was from really far away. It ought to be relateivey easy to figure out if the bullet that hit the poor sod was one that was on its way back down to eart after being fired in the air, because the velocity of such a bullet would be far lower than one fired directly (largely due to air friction+the far larger distance the bullet travels)

If the angle is from above, and there are no high rises around, then it probably was just an accident and someone just got unlucky.

For a .22 when fired from a distance to do the damage suggested by the surgery it would have to be a centerfire cartridge. In thailand that would be a military round. For a 22 rimfire to do the same damage it would have to be fired from close range. The extreme range of a 22 rimfire is 1 mile at which time it would have expended all its energy. Even when from a relatively shot distance it doesn't generally produce immediately lethal wounds in people or large animals. In the US most states prohibit hunting large game with a 22 rimfire for that reason. The animal is more likely to run away and bleed to death later.

The wife has stated she heard a loud bang which suggests it was fired from nearby. There are people who know who did this. Unfortunately there isn't likely to be a serious investigation since the police have already declared it an accident.

Edited February 16, 2008 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[Scott]

It may have been an 'accident' in the sense that the Canadian wasn't the specific target. There may have been no specific target, but legally, I don't know that you can call it an accident.

My thoughts are with the victim and his family.

[barky]

If the reports so far are correct then it sounds like this guy was the unfortunate victim of a silly mistake.

Firing guns in public places is far from a "silly mistake". In fact it is a very serious crime in most countries.

Couldn't agree more. But, please remember where you, sorry, we are. Westeners don't count. Their out-siders, aliens, freaks. Ripping-off, discriminating, abuseing (both racially and physically), blaming, etc., etc, oh yes and killing them are national sports (fostered by the powers that be) that almost the entire nation is in on, in one form or another, at one level or another. If you think I'm a little over the top just review this site and you'll get the picture.

These killing/murders will only stop when western governments do what any Thai government would do in an instant. Complain bitterly, play the racist card, act the victim well, and above all, retalliate in true tit for tat face saving vengeful fashion through visa/travel restrictions, trade/investment sanctions, etc. Generally make the west pay dearly, very dearly indeed. Until then, expect more of the same.

[Briggsy]

Or look at thislink

[Briggsy]

Or look at thislink

Edited February 16, 2008 by Briggsy

[Rinrada]

Our local newspaper suggested that it was a stray shot fired by a local HUNTER?

Visions of some guy dressed up lin skins with coon hats on like Davy Crocket or Jim Bowie going for some bus tucker before holing up at the local Alamo (in San kham Pen) to defend it from the 10 million Burmese attacking from Chiang Rai .........

...Lunch anyone at CMs OK cor-ral........?..ye dogs..

[Netfan]

The bullet has been ID'd as a .22, but is the area of the shooting near the Chiang Mai Night Safari Big Game Hunting?

Thailand says hunter's bullet hit Canadian tourist

CHIANG MAI, Thailand - A Canadian tourist, shot while riding in a pickup truck in northern Thailand, may have been hit by a stray bullet from a hunter, police said on Thursday....

He said the truck had passed by a forested area when Griffioen was shot in the back. ....

- Reuters

Sorry, did I miss something? What happened to the highrise story?

[brahmburgers]

My wife thought she deserved it. Typical Thai believes in murder for the slightest affronts. Got a problem? Kill!

I agree, Thais are quick to scream bloody murder if any one of 1,000 things annoy or embarass, or offend them. Of course, it's 180 degree different (in their view) if it's their own kin who is threatened with lethal harm from such petty impulses.

The bullet has been ID'd as a .22, but is the area of the shooting near the Chiang Mai Night Safari Big Game Hunting?

Thailand says hunter's bullet hit Canadian tourist

CHIANG MAI, Thailand - A Canadian tourist, shot while riding in a pickup truck in northern Thailand, may have been hit by a stray bullet from a hunter, police said on Thursday....

He said the truck had passed by a forested area when Griffioen was shot in the back. ....

- Reuters

Sorry, did I miss something? What happened to the highrise story?

The Thai authorities are so quick to try to find a relatively benign cause for such serious injury - especially as it affects a foreigner and therefore could adversely affect tourism.

[Netfan]

Thailand says hunter's bullet hit Canadian tourist

CHIANG MAI, Thailand - A Canadian tourist, shot while riding in a pickup truck in northern Thailand, may have been hit by a stray bullet from a hunter, police said on Thursday....

He said the truck had passed by a forested area when Griffioen was shot in the back. ....

- Reuters

Sorry, did I miss something? What happened to the highrise story?

The Thai authorities are so quick to try to find a relatively benign cause for such serious injury - especially as it affects a foreigner and therefore could adversely affect tourism.

I thought thats what the "shot came from a nearby highrise" story was.

I'm going with the sangtaew wars theory....

[Johpa]

Our local newspaper suggested that it was a stray shot fired by a local HUNTER?

ROTFLMAO! I actually remember some hunting with firearms in Chiang Mai. Having spent most of my time in-country living with the Thai hillbillys in the mountains above Chiang Mai, I remember when guys would walk out to their fields and forest gardens with homemade rifles slung over their shoulders on the off chance something edible would walk or fly by. And once in awhile they might go hiking into an unpopulated area on the slim chance of finding something to shoot. But even by then, some 25 years ago, there was little left to shoot, and my father-in-law and brother-in-law might come back with some pathetic small bird and then have some drinks as my father-in-law would take out the ancient photo of him with a shot deer, an animal that was last seen on the label of an old lao khao brand. So please, hunting anywhere near the city, anywhere in the lowlands...., :D