There Are No Exact Answers In Thailand

[chiangmaibruce]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I read a seemingly endless stream of people stating that they looking for a "straightforward answer" or "exact answer" to some issue or another concerning operating a business in Thailand.

Please TV veterans, correct me if I am wrong but it is my experience that there NO EXACT ANSWERS HERE. For any given issue - and I guess the issues mainly raised are government regulations - you will find (often) unclear and (always) conflicting information. This will include the following:

- written information contained in Thai government web sites (including variations between the Thai version and the English version)

- written information in printed booklets, brochures or forms obtained from government offices

- verbal information provided by Thai government officers (which will vary from one staff member to another even in the same office - let alone from one region to another)

- written information contained in other sources for example Thaivisa

- your own experiences, and those of trusted associates, on the ground and in real life

You will also find that the extent to which the "rules" really impact on the business varies from "a lot" to "very little" depending on the type of business, the success of the business, the area in which the business operates, and other individual factors.

I am not saying don't do business here, and I am not saying just ignore the rules, but this is just part of the landscape here that people need to appreciate at the outset and factor into their thinking.

It would seem the best you can do is get as close to the ground as you can and reach your own consensus view. By this I mean talk to people running similar business in the area in which you are thinking of operating as well as talking to relevant government staff working in that same area (of Thailand). If you are willing/able to pay for professional advice then again source it LOCALLY.

Also, if you are trying to gather information from outside Thailand then realise that many agencies or staff here do not reply to emails. Again, accept it and work around it or pull your hair out - your choice.

It goes without saying that for any business concept there are many variables and if you want to get as close as you can to an "exact" answer then you need to think about and spell out these variables - whether this be in a TV post or in an email to a solicitor or business broker, for example.

There are reasons for this situation being the way it is, some of which are unique to Thailand, others not. But things are the way they are.

- CB

[Chang_paarp]

:D

Almost worth pinning and putting in the header of all of the forums.

Or for the new folk print it out in large letters and put it above your computer to remind you that your mileage may vary when asking the experiences of others.

[PeaceBlondie]

My concern over in the Teaching in Thailand Forum is that teachers want to know facts. FACTS?!? The only fact about teaching in Thailand is that there are teachers here.

[marc69]

[..]

Also, if you are trying to gather information from outside Thailand then realise that many agencies or staff here do not reply to emails. Again, accept it and work around it or pull your hair out - your choice.

[...]

Thanks for pointing this out. I can only confirm that I have had several contacts with universities in Bangkok and I am so surprised that even people who have met you several times before and discussed some research collaboration just tend to not answer e-mails. Unfortunately this has been the case with both Thai and foreign faculties so it seems that it is part of the working culture in Thailand.

[monty]

It's actually pretty clear with the omnipresent clause in for example immigration and custom laws:

"and up to the discretion of the officer"

[cclub75]

A good summary, along with the comment of Monty.

-instead of saying "no exact answers", I would rather say "several levels of reality".

Therefore, on each level you'll find "exact" answers (related to its level) etc. the process goes on.

It's actually pretty clear with the omnipresent clause in for example immigration and custom laws:

"and up to the discretion of the officer"

[lannarebirth]

There are certain areas of the world where the powers that be benefit most from order and stability and objective criteria. There are other areas where the greatest profits, for some, can be derived through chaos and instability and subjective criteria. Guess where you are.

There's a reason that every nation bordering China is either in turmoil or has a totalitarian government.

Edited February 20, 2008 by lannarebirth

[naka]

The laws are designed for those in power to interpret as they will.

Not some pimply, smart assed, over educated Uni student.

Naka.

[h90]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry ...

Sorry I can't give you an exact answer on this question.

[cclub75]

It's actually pretty clear with the omnipresent clause in for example immigration and custom laws:

"and up to the discretion of the officer"

Here is another example, real, on the ground, that explains how the system is working...

The Foreign Business Law prevents foreigners to own more than 49 % in services companies (the famous list 3).

The text is very clear. And... very unclear.

Section 8 (3) Foreigners shall be prohibited from operating the businesses prescribed in List Three in which Thai nationals are not ready to compete unless permitted by the Director-General with the approval of the Committee.

But nowhere you'll find the criterias, the process of decision, how the director general will take his decision, or how the "Committee" will give its approval.

This is the perversion : we have a law, that looks clear... but actually it creates a lot of opportunies for corruption and leave the door open to arbitrary decisions.

It is smoke and mirror. It's the perfect thai way.

[highdiver]

It's actually pretty clear with the omnipresent clause in for example immigration and custom laws:

"and up to the discretion of the officer"

Here is another example, real, on the ground, that explains how the system is working...

The Foreign Business Law prevents foreigners to own more than 49 % in services companies (the famous list 3).

The text is very clear. And... very unclear.

Section 8 (3) Foreigners shall be prohibited from operating the businesses prescribed in List Three in which Thai nationals are not ready to compete unless permitted by the Director-General with the approval of the Committee.

But nowhere you'll find the criterias, the process of decision, how the director general will take his decision, or how the "Committee" will give its approval.

This is the perversion : we have a law, that looks clear... but actually it creates a lot of opportunies for corruption and leave the door open to arbitrary decisions.

It is smoke and mirror. It's the perfect thai way.

oh CC there you go again...

the forign business act answers all those quetions if you are willing to sit down and read it.

Section 17. In applying for the permission to operate the business, the foreigners shall submit the applications to the Minister or Director-General in accordance with the rules and procedures prescribed in the ministerial regulations. The Cabinet, in case of the business under List Two, or the Director-General, in case of the business under List Three, shall approve or give permission, as the case may be, within 60 days of the date of the application. In the case where there is a cause for the Cabinet to be unable to give the approval within the period, it shall be extended as necessary but shall not exceed 60 days from the lapse of the period.

its all there please read section 17-21

http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/law/fba_e1999.phtml

its funny how so many farrangs will take advise from TV forums and spend so much time debating them while the easy path is to go and read the law book by your self and get all the answers.

[cclub75]

Section 17. In applying for the permission to operate the business, the foreigners shall submit the applications to the Minister or Director-General in accordance with the rules and procedures prescribed in the ministerial regulations. The Cabinet, in case of the business under List Two, or the Director-General, in case of the business under List Three, shall approve or give permission, as the case may be, within 60 days of the date of the application. In the case where there is a cause for the Cabinet to be unable to give the approval within the period, it shall be extended as necessary but shall not exceed 60 days from the lapse of the period.

Always your dry humor HD... But section 17 doesn't give any more informations.

Oh yes... it does. Sorry. It says that the application must be submitted in "accordance with the rules and procedures prescribed in the ministerials regulations".

Now, we feel much better. Everything is clear now.

And by the way I know the "procedures". It says : "use white paper please".