Can The Language Barrier Drive A Farang Out Of The Kingdom Eventually?

[jdinasia]

Thanks for the kind replies so far; now I'll stand back for about 8 hours and see what else is said.

I honestly do not believe I can learn Thai.

As for explaining that I needed to buy a ponytail holder, I can be pretty expressive, but I had not practiced that. So please tell me without more than ten seconds of prep time, what dance or Broadway show tune do I sing (I Feel Pretty, oh so Pretty..." that was sung by an Asian in the Flower Drum Song show)?

PB .. have you ever taken professional classes in a real sit down classroom environment?

[hullmonkey1]

The answer for me is NO.

when I first worked abroad I thought that it was of utter importance that I learnt the language (cantonese). I put in a lot of effort in but when I pronounced the number 17 it always brought a wide grin from my chinese staff...it sounded like wank@r to them. . In vietnam I had an interpreter called Hiepe. When I called him people burst out laughing..it sounded like RAPE!! My 7 year old son (half thai) often repeats my monotone version of the thai language with a big daft grin on his face.

In my opinion all you need to know, is enough to show that you have made some effort, and to be able to show the basics of politeness. I have read countless replies about peoples problems on TV ,asking them how well do they speak thai. WHAT A LOAD OF <deleted>. I have worked with many japanese, vietnamese,french,chinese,kosovan, etc who could speak fluent english but were lost when a couple of UK expats turned on a regional accent to make sure they couldnt understand a word they were saying.

[isabelle17]

If you are always going to be negative about learning something, then yes, you will never understand it.

If you always tell yourself that you cant do something because of some disability you might have, then you never will be able to do it.

Overall, its more important to understand the local customs rather than the language. But learning the language has so many advantages. I don't know what it is like to be tone deaf or to have bad hearing...but is it truly something that will prevent you from learning ANY Thai? You could at least learn to read Thai if you can't pronounce or hear things correctly...

Anyway, it is not necessary to learn Thai. However...I find it incredibly useful. It's nice knowing what they are actually saying about me...so then I know who to stay away from.

Edited February 22, 2008 by isabelle17

[intumult]

It is very annoying to me to read this c-rap about if you don't learn Thai you are lazy etc. etc. Suggest you get a good set of earplugs put them in and go out and socialise. See what it is like guessing what people are saying and while you are trying to figure out what was just said a whole new bunch of words are there for you to try and grasp. Now when you have that problem in your native language can you even immagin what it would be like in a foreign language?

It is typically not something that happens over night. As you get older your hearing gets worse. Most of the time a hearing aid will solve or help the problem but not always.About 5 years ago I had my hearing tested and found that I was profoundly deal on any frequency above 1,000 Hertz. The average person can hear uip to 17 or 18,000 hertz and this gradually drops as you get older. The average persons voice is between 300-3000 hertz higher for women lower for men.

In the past couple of years my hearing has deteriated even more so I doubt that I can hear anywhere near 1,000 hertz now. A hearing aid you say. Yes I tried the best they had to offer 5 years ago. Very annoying as they amplify what you can hear which is not the problem anyhow and being profoundly deaf above 1,000 means a loss of 90db so impossible to amplify.

That means I don't really watch much TV unless it has sub titles, tend to shy away from people (other than my wife) as it is to difficult to carry on a conversation and I really hate saying what or pardon all the time. It is actually a lot of work to try and analysis what is being said. And if there is more than one person talking or any background noise forget it. Fortunately I have been with my wife long enough that she is very much in tune with my problem and knows how to communicate and when I don't understand she will tell me what has been said. Without her I would become a recluse or hermit.

So dam_n it don't tell me I am just lazy if I don't learn Thai.

Sorry about the rant but I got annoyed by some of the comments. Have a good day

I am soooo glad someone else understands

[Tony Clifton]

Can The Language Barrier Drive A Farang Out Of The Kingdom Eventually?

For me, it's the driving. When I finally decided to no longer live here because of the road madness, I decided that was it for Learning Thai language.

Until I leave I'll manage with what I've learned so far. Mind you, doing a little Marcel Marceau (without the makeup) or drawing on a piece of paper has helped me numerous times as well. I never turn down some shopping because of the language barrier.

[Richard W]

But hey, if it makes you folks happier, I will learn the alphabet.

I think that will help. That's the starting point for reading signs and notices, even if it's only ทางเข้า 'way in' and ทางออก 'way out'.

Once you know most of the alphabet, you can start using a pocket dictionary. And, if your eyesight is good enough, there are 2-way pocket dictionaries that will fit in your tee shirt breast pocket.

I think that Thai immigration law is the real culprit in driving out farangs. Making retirees reapply on a yearly basis? 3x30 exempt stamp rule? need I say more?

No, PB has already expressed his unease over this issue.

So dam_n it don't I am tell me just lazy if I don't learn Thai.

Do you read it? Then you'll be able to read the Thai subtitles on UBC.

You need to be quite fluent to keep up with subtitles.

[dumspero]

People who say they can't learn Thai or deluding themselves or stupid. There's only less than three times the number of characters in English, so very finite and easily conquered.

Speaking and understanding are perhaps differnt if one can't conquer the tones, but really, even then, the context is generally sufficient once the Thai grasps we're a stupid farang who can't speak properly.

Yes, I'm lost at a party when the crowd is speaking Issaan at 100 kmph, but at least an effort at Thai will allow one to get around.

I just can't imagine living anywhere and not learnig a passable amount of the language.

I'm with PB 90-plus% of the time, but this language thing is just a lead weight to some, and needlessly so.

Cheers.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Dunspero

If you cannot understand english because of your hearing loss, how in the h-ell are you suppose to understand Thai. You obviously don't comprehend the problem! What good would it do to learn to speak it if you could not understand the response?

[haybilly]

Anyway, apologies if anyone "thinks too much" about it.

No probs. I wouldn't count the 15 seconds it took to type half a dozen words as 'thinking too much'.

I agree, and really that's all these forum things are--expressions of opinions-probably formed in an instant and definitely no big deal.

[haybilly]

Anyway, apologies if anyone "thinks too much" about it.

No probs. I wouldn't count the 15 seconds it took to type half a dozen words as 'thinking too much'.

I agree, and really that's all these forum things are--expressions of opinions-probably formed in an instant and definitely no big deal.

No, I don't agree--err, no, yes I do, or do I. Naah, yeah.

[Neeranam]

PB - check out this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49903.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks for the kind replies so far; now I'll stand back for about 8 hours and see what else is said.

I honestly do not believe I can learn Thai.

As for explaining that I needed to buy a ponytail holder, I can be pretty expressive, but I had not practiced that. So please tell me without more than ten seconds of prep time, what dance or Broadway show tune do I sing (I Feel Pretty, oh so Pretty..." that was sung by an Asian in the Flower Drum Song show)?

PB .. have you ever taken professional classes in a real sit down classroom environment?

Hi jd. Nope. Not even courses in how to sing Broadway show tunes. The YMCA here has a fairly good, reasonably priced class on M-W-F mornings that I could take. Maybe I could sing "Y-M-C-A-" in Thai! My friend has taken courses there, and at two other schools, and still can't speak Thai well, but I could try it.

[popshirt]

The answer for me is NO. <snip>

when I first worked abroad I thought that it was of utter importance that I learnt the language (cantonese). In my opinion all you need to know, is enough to show that you have made some effort, and to be able to show the basics of politeness. I have read countless replies about peoples problems on TV ,asking them how well do they speak thai. WHAT A LOAD OF &lt;deleted&gt;. I have worked with many japanese, vietnamese,french,chinese,kosovan, etc who could speak fluent english but were lost when a couple of UK expats turned on a regional accent to make sure they couldnt understand a word they were saying.

I have reached the "basics of politeness" stage and can deal with taxis and shopping.

But--and I don't believe this has been mentioned thus far--there is another consideration as well.

Thai is a USELESS language outside Thailand. For me it was simply a practical decision. I spend a lot of time traveling (Middle East, Europe, the Americas) and find that my fluent Spanish and semi-fluent French plus native English serve me adequately. Spanish alone is spoken in (I think) about 40 countries around the globe.

So, coupled with the facts that I travel often, when I live here I am usually in Bkk or Jomtien, and I am old, if I were to learn another language it would be Chinese.

[Neeranam]

Maybe I could sing "Y-M-C-A-" in Thai!

Young man, there's no need to feel down.

I said, young man, pick yourself off the ground.

I said, young man, 'cause you're in a new town

There's no need to be unhappy

khon noom mai dtong reusook yeah

chan bok khon noom gratchap grachaeng

pom bok khon noom pro wa dton nee yoo meuang mai

mai mee prayot arai tee koon ja mai mee kwam sook

คนหนุ่มไม่ต้องรู้สึกแย่

ฉันบอกคนหนุ่ม กระฉักระเฉงหน่อย

ผมบอกคนหนุ่มเพราะว่าตอนนี้อยู่เมืองใหม่

ไม่มีประโยชย์อะไรที่คุณจะไม่มีความสุข

That's exactly what you need to do - I translated Lung Ke Mao by Carabao and it opened many new doors for me in learning.

Thanks for letting me pactice my writing

Edited February 23, 2008 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

Anyone know the next verse?

[Chris78]

If someone from Thailand moved to the US and never learned to speak English...would that be acceptable? Would they encounter difficulties? Would people strongly suggest they learn to speak English?

If it's that much of a problem, I think you would have left a long time ago. Here, luckily for farangs, you can get by without any Thai. If you really can't learn to speak basic Thai then just live with the problems. I imagine plenty of foreigners live here happily without speaking Thai.

Is it enough to drive you out of the kingdom?...I highly doubt it. You've been with your partner for five years(?)...Surely that, in itself, is enough to keep you here despite the language barrier.

[Jingthing]

If someone from Thailand moved to the US and never learned to speak English...would that be acceptable? Would they encounter difficulties? Would people strongly suggest they learn to speak English?

It depends. If that person was an older person like the OP and/or lived in an "ethnic" area of the US, it would perfectly acceptable, as well as easy.

I second the poster who suggests it ia a very questionable investment of energy to learn Thai, a one country language, in a country with fickle immigration policies.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[Chris78]

If someone from Thailand moved to the US and never learned to speak English...would that be acceptable? Would they encounter difficulties? Would people strongly suggest they learn to speak English?

It depends. If that person was an older person like the OP and/or lived in an "ethnic" area of the US, it would perfectly acceptable, as well as easy.

I second the poster who suggests it ia a very questionable investment of energy to learn Thai, a one country language, in a country with fickle immigration policies.

So don't learn it. Why is that such a big deal? If you're ok without speaking Thai then don't learn it.

However, the notion that it's not worth learning Thai because you may get thrown out is ludicrous. Also, who cares if this is the only place where they speak Thai...you live here and it's the spoken language here...isn't it?

[Jingthing]

Ludicrous to you. In Pattaya, I have learned you absolutely do not need to speak Thai. So maybe I don't live in Thailand?

Choosing how to invest your time, energy, and money is a personal decision that all must make. I find it ludicrous to suggest that it is ludicrous for a person to consider the future uselessness of his investment in learning Thai as one deciding factor to learn or not to learn.

BTW, I do know some basic Thai. Enough to signal to locals that I live here. It works for me, I wouldn't think to judge other people's decisions on how far they want to go with Thai.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

Elderly immigrants to the USA are, I believe, exempted from some of the rules about speaking English to get citizenshiop. I attended the 5th birthday part of my oldest grandchild (17 years ago!), arrived early, and set in the back yard with great grandma, Senora Flores, who was about 85 at the time. We had to speak my broken Spanish (she had lived in Texas for more than forty years by then), and she died at the age of 101 without learning more than 200 words of English. I figure that gives me 35 or 50 more years to learn 150 more words of Thai.

If it makes you folks happier, you convinced me to maybe give it a try, even though I asked you not to.

[Briggsy]

ประโยชน์ innit?

[Jingthing]

ประโยชน์ innit?

Showoff

[percy2]

Hi jd. Nope. Not even courses in how to sing Broadway show tunes. The YMCA here has a fairly good, reasonably priced class on M-W-F mornings that I could take. Maybe I could sing "Y-M-C-A-" in Thai! My friend has taken courses there, and at two other schools, and still can't speak Thai well, but I could try it.

I remember the Cowboy, the Construction Worker, the Sailor, the Indian, the Traffic Cop, and the Leather Biker but for the life of me I don't remember a a guy in green tights called Peter, I imagine it wouldn't be too out of place:P

Cheers

[percy2]

In response to a couple of things that have been brought but not anybody in particular.

Blind people learn to read all the time.

Profoundly deaf people learn to understand spoken language all the time.

Certainly physical handicap makes things more difficult.

I'm unsure and doubt whether there are schools with the curriculum that includes teaching Thai as a foreign language for the blind or deaf, which granted makes this much more difficult but not impossible.

There are many things that I could / should do to make my life more rewarding but have a certain amount of difficulty providing an obstacle which I choose not to overcome and that's the point , I have chosen therefore do not complain about.

PB,

I think someone else has maybe hit the nail on the head, maybe your inability to speak Thai and eat Thai food are just manifestations of homesickness or dislike(dislike is the wrong word but cannot think of a better one) of Thailand.

Hope whatever you end up doing makes you happy.

Cheers

[qwertz]

I think PB is making it more of a problem than need be. I have visited most states in in Europe in my job as an interpreter (that doesn't mean I learn

languages any faster than the average). I couldn't possibly learn every language and it's not required of me anyway but I can say something polite

and manage a smile in most countries. I always carry with me a little gadget that has a basic vocabulary in 29 different languages, including Thai. It

cost 40 Euros and I wouldn't be without it because at least now I can tell a Slovak that I've lost my parking ticket, a Hungarian that the hotel bill is

wrong and a Thai that I don't want a f++king taxi, massage, time share or cheap suit.

[Chris78]

Ludicrous to you. In Pattaya, I have learned you absolutely do not need to speak Thai. So maybe I don't live in Thailand?

Choosing how to invest your time, energy, and money is a personal decision that all must make. I find it ludicrous to suggest that it is ludicrous for a person to consider the future uselessness of his investment in learning Thai as one deciding factor to learn or not to learn.

I didn't question your decision not to learn Thai. I questioned your reasons for making such a decision.

Are you really not learning Thai because the immigration laws might change? Or because Thailand is the only place where Thai is commonly spoken? I think living in Pattaya might just be a reason you failed to mention in your earlier post. As I said earlier, if you can get by without speaking Thai..good for you...you don't need to learn it... By no means am I saying that all ex-pats here should learn Thai. You are getting by just fine are you not?

There are places in Thailand, however, where not speaking Thai maybe a problem in getting by on a day to day basis. In these cases, using excuses like Thailand having: 'fickle immigration policies' and being a 'one country language' are irrelevant and unhelpful. If you want to be understood by the locals you simply must learn basic Thai. You're right: Pattaya is unlike the rest of the country. In tourist focused places like that, Thai people don't need you to speak Thai (or even want you to, in some cases).

What I'm trying to say is that everyone has the choice to learn Thai or not to learn Thai (and to give reasons for that choice). It is just easier to say 'I won't learn Thai, and there's no point in doing it anyway' if you live in a place where speaking Thai is genuinely unneccesary.

BTW, I do know some basic Thai. Enough to signal to locals that I live here. It works for me, I wouldn't think to judge other people's decisions on how far they want to go with Thai.

Like I said, I'm not judging other peoples' decisions on how far they want to go with Thai. I'm questioning the reasoning for it. Thailand having fickle immigration policies or being a one country language are not compelling reasons for not learning the language. Living in a place where you don't need to speak Thai and where you can exist quite comfortably without it are good reasons not to spend a lot of time learning the language.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Chris78

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

If retiring in Thailand meant that you had to learn the language I would not have retired in Thailand.

How many of you would have said heck with it and gone somewhere else?

[Alkoh0liker]

I think, if you do not speak the language, then you will be quite happy here. If you really understand all the farang-hatred rubbish and non-sense they are talking about, that's what will be the cause for be driven out here. After staying and working here for the last 30 years, I'm on my way outta here. This country and the people have changed from being exoticly nice and friendly - the smile was genuine, to greedy and racist...

[Neeranam]

This country and the people have changed from being exoticly nice and friendly - the smile was genuine, to greedy and racist...

I have only been here half of the time you have but have noticed the same trend. Could it be that we've changed? We just didn't notice the rascism before and couldn't understand the language.

[Spiny]

Maybe I could sing "Y-M-C-A-" in Thai!

Young man, there's no need to feel down.

I said, young man, pick yourself off the ground.

I said, young man, 'cause you're in a new town

There's no need to be unhappy

khon noom mai dtong reusook yeah

chan bok khon noom gratchap grachaeng

pom bok khon noom pro wa dton nee yoo meuang mai

mai mee prayot arai tee koon ja mai mee kwam sook

คนหนุ่มไม่ต้องรู้สึกแย่

ฉันบอกคนหนุ่ม กระฉักระเฉงหน่อย

ผมบอกคนหนุ่มเพราะว่าตอนนี้อยู่เมืองใหม่

ไม่มีประโยชย์อะไรที่คุณจะไม่มีความสุข

That's exactly what you need to do - I translated Lung Ke Mao by Carabao and it opened many new doors for me in learning.

Thanks for letting me pactice my writing

You missed off "noi" after grachaeng in your transliteraltion