Urgent Question About Service Utilities

[ditch0]

Hi,

MY computer just crashed and I lost the entire! (Large) post. I haven't got time to repeat the whole thing, nor can I remember everything I'm so annoyed. hasn't happened to me for ages. I always used to use notepad just in case.

I haven't got time for pleasantries, so I'll just get on with it.

I'm buying a small 2 bed unit at The River and I have to transfer a 10% deposit (£15K) by close of business tomorrow or I will lose the 100,000 Baht reservation deposit and the unit itself. last one left in Tower A and the Foreign quota is all sold out anyway.

Anyway, service utilities? - Power and water etc. when you buy a property, new or resale. Do you have to pay to have it have it physically installed?

I've been studying a draft of the purchase agreement which they sent me for my approval - before I make the transfer tomorrow

Here is the clause cut and pasted directly from the draft contract:

"The Seller shall proceed to apply for installation and pay the fees, security deposit and all expenses for using and installation of electricity meter(s) for the Purchased Unit (s). And after the Seller has registered the transfer of ownership in the Purchased Unit (s) to the Purchaser, the Purchaser agrees to pay the fee, installation expense, and security deposit in relation to the said utilities to the Seller on the Transfer Date. The Seller agrees to deliver the documents, which are required for transferring the user name of all utilities from the Seller to the Purchaser. If there are any fees incurred in relation to such transfer, such fees shall be borne by the Purchaser. The Seller shall transfer the user right in relation to electricity meters and telephone lines as the Common Property to the name of the Condominium Juristic Person and collect all fees, installation expenses, security deposit and other expenses from the Condominium Juristic Person."

IS this right? I know it's a different country and maybe things are a little bit different out here but I'm paying absolutely top dollar for this place and I think it's a bloody cheek to charge for installing the electricity supply and other services.

Please let me know if I should argue this, am I getting a rough deal or is this normal practice?

As I said, i have until 5pm tomorrow to ask for any changes before I transfer the 15K. And because of the time difference, only until 11.00 GMT, really.

Many thanks if anybody can help me out here.

Cheers

Richard

[BL4u]

Hi,

MY computer just crashed and I lost the entire! (Large) post. I haven't got time to repeat the whole thing, nor can I remember everything I'm so annoyed. hasn't happened to me for ages. I always used to use notepad just in case.

I haven't got time for pleasantries, so I'll just get on with it.

I'm buying a small 2 bed unit at The River and I have to transfer a 10% deposit (£15K) by close of business tomorrow or I will lose the 100,000 Baht reservation deposit and the unit itself. last one left in Tower A and the Foreign quota is all sold out anyway.

Anyway, service utilities? - Power and water etc. when you buy a property, new or resale. Do you have to pay to have it have it physically installed?

I've been studying a draft of the purchase agreement which they sent me for my approval - before I make the transfer tomorrow

Here is the clause cut and pasted directly from the draft contract:

"The Seller shall proceed to apply for installation and pay the fees, security deposit and all expenses for using and installation of electricity meter(s) for the Purchased Unit (s). And after the Seller has registered the transfer of ownership in the Purchased Unit (s) to the Purchaser, the Purchaser agrees to pay the fee, installation expense, and security deposit in relation to the said utilities to the Seller on the Transfer Date. The Seller agrees to deliver the documents, which are required for transferring the user name of all utilities from the Seller to the Purchaser. If there are any fees incurred in relation to such transfer, such fees shall be borne by the Purchaser. The Seller shall transfer the user right in relation to electricity meters and telephone lines as the Common Property to the name of the Condominium Juristic Person and collect all fees, installation expenses, security deposit and other expenses from the Condominium Juristic Person."

IS this right? I know it's a different country and maybe things are a little bit different out here but I'm paying absolutely top dollar for this place and I think it's a bloody cheek to charge for installing the electricity supply and other services.

Please let me know if I should argue this, am I getting a rough deal or is this normal practice?

As I said, i have until 5pm tomorrow to ask for any changes before I transfer the 15K. And because of the time difference, only until 11.00 GMT, really.

Many thanks if anybody can help me out here.

Cheers

Richard

I would say normal practice.

From another contract:

The Seller agree to apply for the installations of the meters to measure volume and quantity of use of the public utilities, both in respect of the common areas and the part separate connections to the condominium unit. The Seller agrees to apply for the installation and to pay any security deposit and expenses for the application for the use and installation of the electricity meter, water meter and telephone, to extent of such parts that are separated from the Condominium Unit to be Sold. After the Seller has completely registered the transfer of the ownership of the Condominium Unit to be Sold. On the transfer date of ownership of the Condominium the Purchaser agrees to fully reimburse the Seller for the charges, installation payments and security deposit for the use of the said public utilities, which the Seller has paid in advance. For the purpose of the transfer and name change to the Purchaser’s name, the Seller agrees to deliver all necessary documents to the Purchaser. The Purchaser shall solely be responsible for any fees incurred from such transfer. For security deposit and expenses in relation to the application for the use and installation of the electricity meter, water meter and telephone for the common property, the Seller shall carry out an assignment to cause the applicant’s name to be that of the condominium juristic person and shall subsequently collect the security deposit, installation payments and relevant expenses from the condominium juristic person.

The Purchaser shall pay all service fees in relation to the public utilities, such as the garbage collection fee, security fee, maintenance fee and fee for the cleaning of common property, to the condominium juristic person in accordance with the resolution of the condominium juristic person committee and/or at the rate as deemed appropriate by the condominium juristic person manager.

[oldhand]

Hi,

MY computer just crashed and I lost the entire! (Large) post. I haven't got time to repeat the whole thing, nor can I remember everything I'm so annoyed. hasn't happened to me for ages. I always used to use notepad just in case.

I haven't got time for pleasantries, so I'll just get on with it.

I'm buying a small 2 bed unit at The River and I have to transfer a 10% deposit (£15K) by close of business tomorrow or I will lose the 100,000 Baht reservation deposit and the unit itself. last one left in Tower A and the Foreign quota is all sold out anyway.

Anyway, service utilities? - Power and water etc. when you buy a property, new or resale. Do you have to pay to have it have it physically installed?

I've been studying a draft of the purchase agreement which they sent me for my approval - before I make the transfer tomorrow

Here is the clause cut and pasted directly from the draft contract:

"The Seller shall proceed to apply for installation and pay the fees, security deposit and all expenses for using and installation of electricity meter(s) for the Purchased Unit (s). And after the Seller has registered the transfer of ownership in the Purchased Unit (s) to the Purchaser, the Purchaser agrees to pay the fee, installation expense, and security deposit in relation to the said utilities to the Seller on the Transfer Date. The Seller agrees to deliver the documents, which are required for transferring the user name of all utilities from the Seller to the Purchaser. If there are any fees incurred in relation to such transfer, such fees shall be borne by the Purchaser. The Seller shall transfer the user right in relation to electricity meters and telephone lines as the Common Property to the name of the Condominium Juristic Person and collect all fees, installation expenses, security deposit and other expenses from the Condominium Juristic Person."

IS this right? I know it's a different country and maybe things are a little bit different out here but I'm paying absolutely top dollar for this place and I think it's a bloody cheek to charge for installing the electricity supply and other services.

Please let me know if I should argue this, am I getting a rough deal or is this normal practice?

As I said, i have until 5pm tomorrow to ask for any changes before I transfer the 15K. And because of the time difference, only until 11.00 GMT, really.

Many thanks if anybody can help me out here.

Cheers

Richard

Richard,

This is a standard clause when buying off plan. The developer will install all the electric / water meters but will charge the costs back to you as well as the deposit that is charged by the utility company.

Go ahead and pay as long as you still want the unit.

[backflip]

You need to complete several forms to have the electricity provided in your condo unit, and you need to pay a deposit for the electric meter. It might have changed but, when I bought a condo 3 years ago, the deposit was 12,000THB per meter.

[buddhafly]

i bought elsewhere and it was 12,000 baht deposit for meter.... seems normal...

[pkrv]

Just completed at The Park - yes you pay for the installation of the water and electricity meters normally in the final payment. At some point you will sign over on the meter reading then start to pay the bills.

[ditch0]

Thanks Guys,

Simple, no nonsense answers and all from people who have been there and know what they are talking about.

If only it was always like that on these forums. Sometimes you get........................ you know what I mean.

Anyway, if that's the way it's done - who am I to argue?

Off to the bank now

Thanks again.

Richard

PS. I have asked them to wait until Monday before printing off any hard copies to be fedexed over to me for signing. So I have all weekend to go through this contract with a fine tooth comb. So I will probably have a few more questions between now and Sunday Evening GMT.

Ideally, I really wanted to have a Lawyer for this part (but only this part)

In my first post on this forum I asked for some possible candidates for the job but I only got one suggestion _ Guess who? Yep! You've got it - Siam legal group.

I contacted them for a quote and they wanted 84,500 Baht Upfront!

Well, it's already been a struggle to come up with the deposit and there was a 100,000 Baht reservation fee 2 weeks ago. Two problems there with those guys really:

1. Because of the location/the complex I am buying in, they probably think that's a drop in the ocean for me but I can assure you it's not. I bought the cheapest 2 bed unit I could get on the front - South river facing - only 77 Sq meters.

2. They are an International Corporation and must spend a lot on advertising - they also come up in positions 12345& 6 on the first page if you Google them.

I just needed a small but reliable little side street practice in Bangkok with a good English speaking soliciter.

It's not too late if anybody knows of a legal practice like this - would give me peace of mind.

R

[pkrv]

If I could add something - long ago I asked questions about The Park and other projects in the area. You are investing and believe you me I was shit scared when I invested.

Start a thread on The River - you will go through ups and downs but it is at least 3-4 years off. You will require stamina even if The River is the best thing since sliced bread.

There are projects in progress that will help you need to work out what these are.

[Maestro]

...I just needed a small but reliable little side street practice in Bangkok with a good English speaking soliciter.

It's not too late if anybody knows of a legal practice like this - would give me peace of mind.

The problem is that a little side street practice in Bangkok would probably not have a lawyer speaking English good enough for discussion by phone or email.

You say the quota for foreigners has already been sold out in Tower A of The River. This means that a lot of foreigners have already signed the contract you are now looking at and therefore seem happy with it.

Your time pressure was for the remittance of the 10% of the purchase price. I guess they are not rushing you to return the signed contract. If you have questions about some clauses in it, you might want to post them here for people to compare with what they signed for their condos in other developments, or you could go over them with a solicitor in Britain.

In Thailand, law firms seem to give you a price for the whole package of handling a real estate purchase, and this may explain the fee of over 80k Baht quoted to you by the firm you contacted. With you being in Britain at the moment it is difficult for you to talk to a law firm in Thailand and perhaps work out an hourly rate for going through the purchase contract with you. If I read you correctly, you want a lawyer’s opinion whether there is anything out of the ordinary in the contract, by comparison with what is normally written into such contracts in Thailand. I don’t know if another law firm, Sunbelt Asia, would give you this service but you could ask them. For a quick response, best send a PM to the member Sunbelt Asia.

--

Maestro

[backflip]

"I asked for some possible candidates..."

Sunbelt Asia can do it for you. But, why bother with an attorney? A lot of TVers will respond with "oh my God you absolutely need an attorney blah blah blah..." Don't believe them. If you were buying from a private owner, I'd suggest you get an attorney. My big question: why did you sign a contract that you neither read nor understood completely? Regardless, you now have a few years to read and reread every word, phrase, and clause.

[thaigene2]

...I just needed a small but reliable little side street practice in Bangkok with a good English speaking soliciter.

It's not too late if anybody knows of a legal practice like this - would give me peace of mind.

The problem is that a little side street practice in Bangkok would probably not have a lawyer speaking English good enough for discussion by phone or email.

You say the quota for foreigners has already been sold out in Tower A of The River. This means that a lot of foreigners have already signed the contract you are now looking at and therefore seem happy with it.

--

Maestro

This is why it's better to buy a condo in a finished, registered, building. Otherwise you have no way of knowing how many foreigners, just like you, have also purchased, and recevied, just some vague verbal statement from the sales agent/developer.

I talked to a guy in Bangkok a few years back who bought a condo in a completed building by paying cash (Thai baht) to the owner, got the "Bill of Sale" etc..But when I asked him about how things went at the Land Registry, he drew a blank. "Oh we haven't gotten round to registering the property there yet.."

Nice one.

[JeffCA]

...I just needed a small but reliable little side street practice in Bangkok with a good English speaking soliciter.

It's not too late if anybody knows of a legal practice like this - would give me peace of mind.

The problem is that a little side street practice in Bangkok would probably not have a lawyer speaking English good enough for discussion by phone or email.

You say the quota for foreigners has already been sold out in Tower A of The River. This means that a lot of foreigners have already signed the contract you are now looking at and therefore seem happy with it.

--

Maestro

This is why it's better to buy a condo in a finished, registered, building. Otherwise you have no way of knowing how many foreigners, just like you, have also purchased, and recevied, just some vague verbal statement from the sales agent/developer.

I talked to a guy in Bangkok a few years back who bought a condo in a completed building by paying cash (Thai baht) to the owner, got the "Bill of Sale" etc..But when I asked him about how things went at the Land Registry, he drew a blank. "Oh we haven't gotten round to registering the property there yet.."

Nice one.

Maestro is correct. That price is for the full package for them to answer all of your questions and handle all of your problems for the next 3 years until it completes transfer. I was the poster who suggested them. While rates have gone up slightly, I really don't feel that price is too high for 3 years of legal work on your behalf. As my attorney has perfect English and the sales staff at the condo sometimes struggle, whenever I have had an issue communicating a concern or request, my lawyer takes it on and works it out with them. It is a relatively low price to have a one stop shop working on your behalf in a distant country.

If you are unfamiliar enough with local custom to be unaware of how the utility services work, a paid advisor for 3 years to steer you through the process is probably a wise move, especially if it is your life savings. And there you have my Two Satang

[PadThaiGuy]

You bought the 'last' unit available under the foreign quota?

[ditch0]

Well Hello Everybodz,

Seems like there has been a fair bit of discussion since I last checked. Thanks to everybody for their time.

^{Would somebody tell me if I've got my account configured incorrectly because I have notification by email ticked for replies to this thread but when I click on the link, it always takes me to a brand new thread. Over the years and currently I subscribe to dozens of these forums, which are all pretty much the same in the way they look and operate but with this one, the hyperlink takes me to a brand new thread? Every other forum I'm on or have ever been on just takes you back to your own thread if there has been a new reply. Does anybody else have the same problem? At the moment, I only want to know if somebody has posted on the thread I started.}

^{I've now transferred my deposit but I did it on Friday afternoon about 3ish, so it won't be sent until Monday morning and I doubt if it will arrive in the Thai bank until Tuesday morning. Anyhow, I asked the sales woman that I deal with, not to print the hard copies of the contract until she receives my email with dual language draft which I may or may not have amended.}

^{Yes, some of you are probably going to say "it's a bit too late to try and make any changes now, after you have paid the deposit. Ideally, both parties should be in agreement and the contract signed BEFORE the deposit has been paid.}

^{JeffCA, I just haven't got £1350 in spare change to give to anybody at the moment and I should have mentioned, I have got got to buy somewhere to live in the UK or possibly Europe by October this year and legal services are mandatory but fees are negotiable of course.}

^{Backflip, the only contract that I have signed so far, is the reservation agreement and I had to have it re-written because they weer asking me to agree to pay the full amount by Feb 22nd, instead of just ten percent. The numerical amount was correct but in words it said the full selling price. I picked up on it and let them know and they sent me out a correctly worded one and then i signed it and sent it back, so trust me - I do read everything - VERY thoroughly.}

^{Sh** I'm taking ages over this, when I suppose to be going through the contract.}

^{To those of you that have already been there, here is another paragraph that I would like to know about. Is this pretty standard or should I be asking for accommodation expenses for the period after the 4 years is up until completion.}

"The Seller shall construct and register “The River” as a condominium in order to issue the Condominium Title Deed and to complete the same within approximately 48 (Forty Eight) months from the last day of July, B.E. 2550 (A.D. 2007)). This construction period may be extended for another 1 year, in the event that the construction work is suspended or delayed due to a breach of contract by the main contractor or sub-contractor, as well as force majeure, economic slow down, war, labor strike, prohibition by the government or law or any other causes. This extension shall not be considered that the Seller is in breach under this Agreement."

If i have already moved to Thailand, in say 2 years time as planned, That could be a whole year's rent I have to pay for out of my own pocket. That shouldn't be right, I don't want to agree to that!!

That's all for now, Thanks for all your help

I will start a new thread to continue with this contract issue because it isn't relevant to the thread title any more.

Cheers

Richard

[ray08]

Well Hello Everybodz,

Seems like there has been a fair bit of discussion since I last checked. Thanks to everybody for their time.

^{Would somebody tell me if I've got my account configured incorrectly because I have notification by email ticked for replies to this thread but when I click on the link, it always takes me to a brand new thread. Over the years and currently I subscribe to dozens of these forums, which are all pretty much the same in the way they look and operate but with this one, the hyperlink takes me to a brand new thread? Every other forum I'm on or have ever been on just takes you back to your own thread if there has been a new reply. Does anybody else have the same problem? At the moment, I only want to know if somebody has posted on the thread I started.}

^{I've now transferred my deposit but I did it on Friday afternoon about 3ish, so it won't be sent until Monday morning and I doubt if it will arrive in the Thai bank until Tuesday morning. Anyhow, I asked the sales woman that I deal with, not to print the hard copies of the contract until she receives my email with dual language draft which I may or may not have amended.}

^{Yes, some of you are probably going to say "it's a bit too late to try and make any changes now, after you have paid the deposit. Ideally, both parties should be in agreement and the contract signed BEFORE the deposit has been paid.}

^{JeffCA, I just haven't got £1350 in spare change to give to anybody at the moment and I should have mentioned, I have got got to buy somewhere to live in the UK or possibly Europe by October this year and legal services are mandatory but fees are negotiable of course.}

^{Backflip, the only contract that I have signed so far, is the reservation agreement and I had to have it re-written because they weer asking me to agree to pay the full amount by Feb 22nd, instead of just ten percent. The numerical amount was correct but in words it said the full selling price. I picked up on it and let them know and they sent me out a correctly worded one and then i signed it and sent it back, so trust me - I do read everything - VERY thoroughly.}

^{Sh** I'm taking ages over this, when I suppose to be going through the contract.}

^{To those of you that have already been there, here is another paragraph that I would like to know about. Is this pretty standard or should I be asking for accommodation expenses for the period after the 4 years is up until completion.}

"The Seller shall construct and register "The River" as a condominium in order to issue the Condominium Title Deed and to complete the same within approximately 48 (Forty Eight) months from the last day of July, B.E. 2550 (A.D. 2007)). This construction period may be extended for another 1 year, in the event that the construction work is suspended or delayed due to a breach of contract by the main contractor or sub-contractor, as well as force majeure, economic slow down, war, labor strike, prohibition by the government or law or any other causes. This extension shall not be considered that the Seller is in breach under this Agreement."

If i have already moved to Thailand, in say 2 years time as planned, That could be a whole year's rent I have to pay for out of my own pocket. That shouldn't be right, I don't want to agree to that!!

That's all for now, Thanks for all your help

I will start a new thread to continue with this contract issue because it isn't relevant to the thread title any more.

Cheers

Richard

If you sent the deposit , i really do not know how you can change the contract afterwards, from all the positive and negative info on buying of the plan you have read from your thread , you have taken the decision to procced based on what you had in front of you , from my own experience here in Thailand i found it hard to change contracts , and that was before they had my money and i in fact walked away from a few deals ,

If they do not agree to any changes where do you stand with your Deposit ? Is there a get out clause?