Sinsot Question (yet Another One)

[jaiyenyen]

well it seems like there are two sin sod, one is where the family keeps it and the other is where they give it back.

farangs like it when they get it back because its a beautiful cultural tradition.

when they dont get it back they dislike it because they are an atm for their lucky wife's family who married up.

personally, i dont see myself doing the sin sod thing either way. seems silly.

Maybe it does sound silly to us farang, but like it or not, it is part of Thai tradition. The world would be a very boring place if each race went around disregarding everyone elses customs. Surely every groom wants his bride to look good on her wedding day (face), and if it puts a smile on everyones face, then it is money well spent.

Remember, we are talking about a custom.

If you are prepared to lose your woman for 200000baht then I have to question your commitment.

I 'paid' 200000baht, a mixture of cash and gold (but I got mine back) for a 40 year old woman with 3 children I think the OP is getting a good deal

Hey, it's only money

[Eastender]

Jaiyenyen, you hit the nail on the head...

'If you are prepared to lose your woman for 200000baht then I have to question your commitment.'

Case closed, nothing more to say.

[Ski_Goong]

My eldest son just got married last month (girl is from middle-class family with a good job, age is mid 20s, my son is assigned to the Australian embassy). Sin Sot 1 million baht, 10 baht gold, and a nice diamond rig. All the money was returned, the gold is in a safe and the ring is being worn by the wife.

My son's friend got married last year and paid 100,000 baht sin sot...all returned. Every situation is different. Every person is different. We are not talking about buying a car here. We are taking about marriage and satrting a future with someone.

Don't focus on "price" but focus on what will make you both happy.

Ski....and Goong

[KhaoNiaw]

Taking this a little bit further. Who would be paying for the wedding? If they want to put on a big show for their daughter's wedding, that could take care of their 200,000. Are they in a position to afford a big wedding? OK, you would have paid for it but it's probably worth it for letting them see her hitched in style.

On the other hand, if they're wanting 200,000 baht and expecting you to pay for the wedding, that makes things a bit different. Don't just focus on the sin sod itself but work out how much the whole thing is going to cost and who is going to be paying for what. There may be room for negotiation but it's going to be very difficult without talking it all through with your girlfriend first.

[ozzydom]

If this non agreement regarding Sin Sod was enough to make her "spit the dummy", I would question how deep her feelings for you really are.

Paying Sin Sod will not exempt the lady in question from caring for her parents financially and if the OP and lady concerned decide to start a family or she decides to give up work and be a housewife then he will be expected to finance her parents care in the future.

Caring for ones parents is (or should be ) part of western culture, Sin Sod is part of Thai,s, so why not a compromise.

That the OP undertake to pay a stipend monthly for the aging parents care in lieu of sin sod,at least then if the marriage goes out the window the payments cease.

[dominator]

Tradition, pure crap.

Slaver is largely abolished worldwide, so should this be.

If it's a question of money, you're better off without her.

Anyone who sells their daughter in this day and age is no better than a pimp.

[meatgrowler]

Hi all, I would like to get some opinions about this situation I'm in. I've read the other posts about this but didn't see a similar case.

I've been dating a Thai girl for the past 1 year, a late 20's (I'm mid 30's), university graduate with a decent office job. Originally from Phuket but living with her parents and sister now in Bangkok. We've started talking over the last couple of weeks about possible wedding and the issue of sinsod came up. After a few discussions and her talking to her parents to "feel the ground" it turns out they want to put on display 400K and return back to me 200K. The family isn't rich, normal working class and both retired. She's never been married / no kids. I myself am not rich either, I've got a small business that's making a decent living but not large amounts of extra cash.

I did a bit of research online about this before they came up with the figures and they kindda surprised me, I was expecting maybe half of that. So I told her I'm not able or prepared to pay this amount at the moment and it sounds too high to me. She took it quite badly, saying things like she already negotiated down with them as they wanted more, that I don't respect the culture, that her parents deserve these amounts for taking care of her, that I just wanted to take advantage, that normal Thai guys are able to pay these amounts so how come I won't and other stuff like that. At the end I said I'll need to think about it and I can't reply either way on the spot but she already got into her mind that I don't and won't pay anything (I admit I do find this custom very difficult to stomach but I told her I will pay some amount but not this amount). It had a bad effect on her as she was genuinely crying her eyes out. She then packed her stuff from my apartment and left saying she won't be able to stay over and I can have my time to think about it. It looks like it may be a deal breaker.

Besides this incident the relationship has gone extremely well, we spend a lot of time together and seem compatible in every other sense. I've met her parents several times and other family members and have always gotten along great despite language barrier. I'm worried I might be making a mistake both handling the situation and in my attitude towards it.

Would really appreciate some advice on this.

I gave a bag of sand{grand,70k ish baht}....they didnt want nowt....but as a gesture to the issan family i insisted....top day had by all.....job done...the mrs buys the odd fridge or washing machine occasionally......forget the 40,000k ....does she think your bill gates?....yeah right ...how many thai men cough up this amount?....at least without selling the family land........good luck

[seonai]

Are any of you men listening to me ??? I an a Woman maried to my second Thai husband ...

[mistresserika]

Are any of you men listening to me ??? I an a Woman maried to my second Thai husband ...

Are you saying, that as a farang woman, you had to pay to marry a man??

[seonai]

What a ridiculous thing to say, my husband is my husband and he always supports me financially in all circumstances, of course I did not/do not have to pay to marry a man

[Cuban]

Sorry to add this very minor thought, there are many other traditions that come with a Thai - Thai marriage that the happy couple and extended family do not suffer with a farang - Thai marriage. So really a farang - Thai marriage is really a bit alien to average Thai parents.

Assuming the farang does have more earning ability that Khun Thai there will be an expectation that you are a possible source of "loans" in the future - I might suggest that you discuss this factor with your partner. If they want the whole Thai culture thing then maybe you withdraw some of the farang nice to haves that the family are getting.

There are many answers to this problem - and not all apply to all situations.

One lesson that seems to be proven in each case is that when the money drain gets established it tends to be milked until the source runs dry. I have always considered requests for money on merit, when I get the calculator out and work out what interest the wide eyed hopefull will be expected to pay me/us they understand I am not here to act as their personal ATM. This has earned respect and stopped almost all nagging "....can I 'borrow' 1,000 Baht..." requests.

[blizzard]

dont be so hard on the guy.

maybe he has a thai business..........................lol.

[JSixpack]

There is a story on stickmans bangkok written by a thai/american guy called "why i never married a thai" you might find it quite interesting

Go ahead and read it, but take Stickman with a pinch of salt. He has some rather dubious interests in what he writes. He also attracts a large follwing of a particular kind.

Stickman didn't write "Why I Never Married A Thai." Moreover, it is one of the best commentaries on Thai women ever written by a farang anyway.

[blizzard]

btw.

sounds like gurl interested in atm than a good kind husband, sir! you very lucky man she no like u anymore.

times must be a tough in issarn as the girls seem to be settling for those with not mut munney!

Edited February 23, 2008 by blizzard

[Eric1949]

What a ridiculous thing to say, my husband is my husband and he always supports me financially in all circumstances, of course I did not/do not have to pay to marry a man

Make your mind up Seonai. Your post #30 you say your first husband was from issan and that you were expected to pay for everything including sinsot!!!!

[shochu]

Correct me if I am wrong - but does the girl not become a part of the male's family. Watch any thai drama and this is the case.

The sin sod should be about show and nothing more - fully returned.

Any relationship where money is an issue will become more problematic. It is a question of helping her parents or making yours better - which is more important - and hwere are your girlfriends priorities?

Time and again, I only ever see westerners marrying asian ladies ever asked to help out financially as if it were the norm - and continue to help them out. These relationships tend to be with someone who did not have the resources available to marry into a better non western family (read - same national). I am not making a personal judgement here on anyone - just stating what I see.

OP should clarify exactly what the money not retunred will be used for and this should clear everything up.

[Norrad]

I can relate, I'm going through the same process now. When I met my wife about 3 years ago, her family started asking about marriage right away and sinsod. The amount of 2 million was pulled out of nowhere and only mentioned to me a while later (so I couldn't really negotiate). I flat out refused to pay this amount, it would take me ages to save it up. At the beginning of this year, we decided to have a small western wedding and afterwards we registered our marriage at the district office. Everyone seemed happy that she has more options in life now, or so I thought. The family have demanded a Thai ceremony (before April, as she is now living with me), ofcourse it will all be at my expense but the sinsod has been lowered to 1 million of which they will be keeping a large share. This is starting to strain our relationship.

Now a little background, I met my wife when she was 18 and I was 24, I worked at the same company as her sister and that's how we were introduced. She was a 1st year University student (On government loan). She was staying with her sister and her sisters boyfriend, but after a year she was kicked out to come live with me. I am putting her through university, we decided to officially get married after 3 years to make it easier for us to do things as a married couple (joint accounts, homeloan etc.). Her sister is the only one with a job and the family has no desire to change (they are dirt poor).

Her parents have not supported her since she was a child, so if I was going to pay sinsod, I feel I should pay it to her sister for taking care of her. Now my question is, how can I delicately put it that I will pay for the wedding and put money for show but I do not feel that they deserve it.

[Wrong Turn]

....sinsod.......you lot just don't get it !!..do you.......its does not apply to farangs as when their turn comes for receiving sin sod they don't receive a penny........just get your heads round that please....!!

I have never understood why a Farang would pay Sinsot, when dee123 states the truth above.

Cracks me up, that any guy would even consider it, let alone do it.

[Neeranam]

I say either pay the sinsot and never give another penny to the family or get the sinsot back and then help suport the family(if they can't themselves).

Sinsot is a Thai cultural thing - you should respect that. Whether you get it back or not determines what happens next.

I know some suckers that gave 200,000 ++ and then gave a monthly income to their inlaws.

[rambling]

Interesting information. I think we can all learn from it.

Edited February 23, 2008 by rambling

[Smithson]

I am putting her through university, we decided to officially get married after 3 years to make it easier for us to do things as a married couple (joint accounts, homeloan etc.). Her sister is the only one with a job and the family has no desire to change (they are dirt poor).

Her parents have not supported her since she was a child, so if I was going to pay sinsod, I feel I should pay it to her sister for taking care of her. Now my question is, how can I delicately put it that I will pay for the wedding and put money for show but I do not feel that they deserve it.

My advice to all farang is avoid contact with the family, you can meet them, but don't go out of your way to do it, be pleasant, polite and humble. If they come to your house, be generous - buy some som tam, sticky rice etc, but never lend them money. Don't say no, just avoid the questions.

In many cases it's not just a matter of wanting to rip off the farang, they'll also rip off the daughter/sister. In time your partner will see this and also want to avoid the family, she will be closer to you, love and trust you more than her own family. After 7 years with my wife, she sees her family for what they are.

There are ppl who paid sin sot and/or get along great with the family, but I'd guess many of them are quite happy to hand out cash.

[Scott]

So, how about some respect for our culture. Don't negotiate and don't pay. A friend of mine tried to negotiate with his future in-laws and they were complete pricks. He told his fiancee, he would pay nothing---zero--nada. She said OK and they got married. It took the family about a month to come around, but now they are best of friends with her husband.

Had another friend who paid 1 million. The family gave it all back to him. The father told him he would get it back, so all he had to do was use what money he had and borrow some.

Have some respect for your own culture.

[Smithson]

I say either pay the sinsot and never give another penny to the family or get the sinsot back and then help suport the family(if they can't themselves).

Sinsot is a Thai cultural thing - you should respect that. Whether you get it back or not determines what happens next.

I know some suckers that gave 200,000 ++ and then gave a monthly income to their inlaws.

Don't pay anything. I bet a Thai man marrying a Western woman would be shocked at the thought of paying Sin Sot, his family would be even more shocked.

If you pay, you'll pay for ever. I'm not against helping out aging parents, but not when other siblings sit around doing nothing. A bar girl had a baby, sent it home to be looked after and in no time the house was full of ppl all living of the money she was sending home.

It's not just a farang thing, ppl in the village like hand outs and are easily made dependent.

[Fun2Fun]

Its not just about the parents its also about your future wife and her expectations of her wedding day.

Like it or not a large wedding party where the showing and counting of the sin sod is a prominent part is for many girls an important event which many have been looking forward to/dreamed about since being a little girl.

So if its her wish to have such a wedding and you do not consider her and her wishes important enough to do your best to ensure her happiness on such an important then you should not get married after all.

There is nothing wrong in negotiating on how much should be returned back to you though, the important part in regards to the ceremony is just how much is show not how much is actually given to the parents.

And as someone have mentioned an important factor is also who should pay for the party , you or the parents.

Our wedding party for 200 + guests came close to 150.000 THB.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Fun2Fun

[LoveDaBlues]

What a ridiculous thing to say, my husband is my husband and he always supports me financially in all circumstances, of course I did not/do not have to pay to marry a man

Make your mind up Seonai. Your post #30 you say your first husband was from issan and that you were expected to pay for everything including sinsot!!!!

It's hard for the Western mind to wrap itself around the tradition of sinsod; that's why you're not understanding her post.

Yes, she paid sinsod. No, she doesn't have to pay to marry a man.

In your mind if one pays sinsod they are paying for their mate. In the Thai mind it's different and has nothing to do with buying someone.

The confusing part for me is.......I always thought sinsod was paid by the male to the bride's family. Hopefully seonai will comment on this; I am curious.

ps - I didn't pay sinsod but believe in it.

To the OP.....you've basically just told your GF's family that you think she's worthless.....no wonder she cried.

I suggest to ALL the farangs that don't believe in sinsod that on the first date they should wear a shirt inscribed, "I DON'T PAY SINSOD!". This could save a lot of time and heartache.

Edited February 23, 2008 by LoveDaBlues

[LoveDaBlues]

I am putting her through university, we decided to officially get married after 3 years to make it easier for us to do things as a married couple (joint accounts, homeloan etc.). Her sister is the only one with a job and the family has no desire to change (they are dirt poor).

Her parents have not supported her since she was a child, so if I was going to pay sinsod, I feel I should pay it to her sister for taking care of her. Now my question is, how can I delicately put it that I will pay for the wedding and put money for show but I do not feel that they deserve it.

My advice to all farang is avoid contact with the family, you can meet them, but don't go out of your way to do it, be pleasant, polite and humble. If they come to your house, be generous - buy some som tam, sticky rice etc, but never lend them money. Don't say no, just avoid the questions.

In many cases it's not just a matter of wanting to rip off the farang, they'll also rip off the daughter/sister. In time your partner will see this and also want to avoid the family, she will be closer to you, love and trust you more than her own family. After 7 years with my wife, she sees her family for what they are.

There are ppl who paid sin sot and/or get along great with the family, but I'd guess many of them are quite happy to hand out cash.

Wow, you generous, big spender you. I'd hate to see what you buy when you're not being generous.

[bangsue]

this whole plate of money thing is very Chav-ish isn't it?

[Briggsy]

Your parents with a translator should negotiate with her parents. By getting your wife to negotiate on your behalf, you placed her in an impossible position batting for both sides. And failing that.....

In Asia, if you can't afford the girl, walk away, no point arguing.

[Namsai]

....can you just tell me why you should pay sinsod........???

This is the culture in Thailand .we belive longtime ago about mom and dad improtant.if you good take care mom and dad good the furture you will lucky.you give the money for them 200k the furture money return you back more than that.Sin Sod not it mean every family want to take from dauther.if you from good family (in bangkok or somepart of Thailand rich family) Mom and Dad don t want take the money .They give the money for dauther and son in law for built new family.Normally Thai Lady from ISSAN have the Sin Sod.Mom and Dad teach when we youger you must take care us "when you go every where Eventhow you fall in the water you didn t deep and when you fall in the fire you didn t burnt" and some family in ISSAN want dauther married with Frarang because They have a new house,beatiful house,why Mon and Dad want to take the Sin Sod.Some family want to show O'my dauther married with Frarand very rich because Dauther sent the money to buit the new house.Now some villgge in ISSAN same like bangkok have beatiful house and big house. Every family want dauther married with Frarang.Now in ISSAN have the company match maker.Some family pay the money alot for this company .Because normaly Thai people can t speak English but the angency can chat email with Frarand until he want to meet Thai lady and want to get married.Why Frarang looking Thai lady just only Pattaya, Kao Samui,Pucket,Nana,If Frarang just want to have fun it Ok but if you want to find "good wife or partner your life"you must to take time with Thai lady"I like culture frarang have boyfriend and grilfriend for longtime some one 5years befor get married.try to learn together longtime.but you just find Thai lady just 3week why you know she good or not good,you same like buy the Lotto.Enyway normaly The Thai Lady very good for take care and very honest because we close family mom and dad good teach.They teach How you cook and clean and take care kid take care husband.They belive husband is the leader.The wife must to do everythig to him.Why Frarand like Thai Lady......

[Heng]

It seems there are an endless line of folks around here who are too embarrassed to say to the gal AND parents if possible "well, the issue is my Thai friends who have gotten married have all gotten the sin sod returned to the couple... so I'm unclear why you intend to keep a portion/all of it." Now, I've actually heard of a few Thais not having their sin sods returned, but those were typically arranged marriages where the bride and groom were like 20-40 years apart age wise... but for regular plain jane weddings; two people of similar age and means, there was never any question of it being returned (and in fact in quite a few cases, I loaned the funds out to put on the tray... so I know it was returned).