War On Drugs To Be Revived

[sriracha john]

Can't feel sorry about dead drug dealers ,. if i found a dealer trying to push drugs to my kids , i would also shoot first and ask questions latter,.

Ha ha ha, I wondered how long it would be before this thread brought out one of these nutcases!!!

Oh well , some of us are anti drugs and i see some are pro drugs , them again i am sure you can tell us all the great deeds that drug dealers contribute to society ,

I'm pro-justice and anti-slaughter, not pro-drugs.

The non-judicial butchery of uninvestigated, untried, unsentenced, and un-guilt-proven humans is not something to be "pro" about.

Edited February 23, 2008 by sriracha john

[Smithson]

Can't feel sorry about dead drug dealers ,. if i found a dealer trying to push drugs to my kids , i would also shoot first and ask questions latter,.

Ha ha ha, I wondered how long it would be before this thread brought out one of these nutcases!!!

Oh well , some of us are anti drugs and i see some are pro drugs , them again i am sure you can tell us all the great deeds that drug dealers contribute to society ,

How long have you been here? I hope it's only a little while, because if you were around for the last war on drugs you're incredibly stupid to make such a statement. We don't need Brazilian style police death squads.

[Halydys]

Can't feel sorry about dead drug dealers ,. if i found a dealer trying to push drugs to my kids , i would also shoot first and ask questions latter,.

Ha ha ha, I wondered how long it would be before this thread brought out one of these nutcases!!!

I,m with Ray08 on this one. They can drop dealers off the 24th floor of a condo unit for all I care.

Yes, I'm with the above 2 posters on this one - dealers are death dealers, many kids don't have parents who 'steer them right' but every adult has a personal choice as to what they choose to do & who they sell to, even the ones who are screwed up. Guess I'm a nutcase too. Gov't officials picking off 'examples' & sometimes innocents (maybe doing their own drug or other personal thing) are another story.

My opinion FWIT only,

Halydys

[sriracha john]

the fact that people here are so accepting of this system and dont organise themselves and rise up against the reviled police and corrupt officials at every level here , shows that they are basically content to live easily under a system that takes all empowerment away from them and gives all that power to those who continually abuse them.

the corruption is so long standing and endemic here that there probably is no solution to it.

In Thaksin, they have the opportunity to start making headway.

Granted it's a huge "if" but if, for example, he's found guilty of the charges he faces and will face and is sent off for 35 years, along with prison sentences for his wife, his adult son, his adult daughters... and follow it with like sentences for his cronies, it would send a tremendous message to those with like-minded intentions... and be that crucial first step to turning this endemic corruption around.

[Abrak]

First I must admit to having a very low opinion of Chalerm.

I find his desire to reintroduce the war on drugs as quite sinister. I think he is much more interested in granting virtually unlimited powers to his police force than he is in clearing up the drug problem.

I was not a supporter of the last war on drugs - it was an archaic solution to a difficult problem - a botched one at that considering half the deaths had nothing to do with drugs.

[sriracha john]

First I must admit to having a very low opinion of Chalerm.

I find his desire to reintroduce the war on drugs as quite sinister. I think he is much more interested in granting virtually unlimited powers to his police force than he is in clearing up the drug problem.

I was not a supporter of the last war on drugs - it was an archaic solution to a difficult problem - a botched one at that considering half the deaths had nothing to do with drugs.

even more so when considering not one of them was found guilty of even one crime.

[tuky]

Didn't drugs only come back after Thaksin was removed?

No... simply most costlier for a time during his repeated purges of humanity...

Thaksin declaring Thailand drug-free was one of his all-time worst speaking gaffs..

That's right, now I remember.

They were always there, but just so more expensive that the poorer folks turned to glue sniffing and the likes.

Anyway, no matter what the reason, killing (executing) people without trial should never be condoned. If they wanted to send a message then really tighten the after trial execution laws if only for a period of time, or there are other ways right? with correct surveillance and an airtight conviction perhaps the arresting officer can receive a bonus. WHo knows.

But, this kinda makes me think of Mao's Cultural Revolution where all it took was a rumour started by someone who doesn't like you to end up with you being dead.

[Eric1949]

I thought the War on Drugs was already won? At least that was the government's declaration!

You're quite correct. It was very definitively declared won and the entire country was drug-free....

I'm a bit confused by this news article in the OP.

Thailand has been drug-free for well over three years now.

What on Earth happened???

Thaksin declares the country 'drug free area'

The Nation / Published on Apr 13, 2003

"The government is pleased to announce that the country is now a drug-free area and will proclaim victory in its war on drugs," said Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

by the by... that was from another thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=78961

Royal Thai Police: Narcotics Are Spreading Violently

which is one of several related threads on thaivisa, beginning with the biggest of them all:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=92482

Bringing Thaksin To Account, Extra-judicial killings

and also including:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=69696

Thaksin To Revitalise War On Drugs

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49770

Government Has Clear Policy On War On Drugs: Thaksin

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6906

Thaksin To Lead New War On Drugs

Of course Thailand is drug free, Thailand has also become the only country in the world that has no road accidents.

[Mobi]

From Today's Daily Telegraph.

Pretty good publicity for our new government.

Thailand threat to shoot 4,000 in drug war

By Thomas Bell in Bangkok

Last Updated: 1:52am GMT 23/02/2008

The new Thai government is to relaunch the country's "war on drugs" which killed more than 2,500 people allegedly involved in the trade.

During a three-month killing spree in 2003 as intense as a full-scale armed conflict, thousands named on police "black lists" were shot dead, allegedly on government orders.

Yet the government's narcotics control board concluded that more than half the victims had no involvement in drugs. One couple from north-eastern Thailand were shot dead after coming into unexplained wealth and being added to a black list. They were, in fact, lottery winners.

advertisementThe campaign was one of the principal policies of Thaksin Shinawatra, the former prime minister and Mr Samak's political patron, who now lives in exile and owns Manchester City Football Club.

"My government will decisively implement a policy against drug trafficking. Government officials must implement this policy 24 hours a day, but I will not set a target for how many people should die," said Samak Sundaravej, the new prime minister.

The interior minister Chalerm Yubamrung, said: "When we implement a policy that may bring 3,000 to 4,000 bodies, we will do it,"

Although the military junta which overthrew Mr Thaksin in 2006 called the killings "a crime against humanity", the former premier and his supporters - who were re-elected in December - insist that the dead were the victims of gang warfare, not police killings.

Yet there is strong evidence of police involvement. Many were shot days after being summoned to defend themselves before local authorities or after reporting to a police station to have their name removed from the "black list".

The government ordered the police to compile "back lists" which were as comprehensive as possible, then shorten the list by 25 per cent every month. Often the only way off the list was death.

[sriracha john]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1834175

No shortage of international media attention on this...

Thailand threat to shoot 4,000 in drug war

The new Thai government is to relaunch the country's "war on drugs" which killed more than 2,500 people allegedly involved in the trade.

- Telegraph (UK)

[naka]

Can't feel sorry about dead drug dealers ,. if i found a dealer trying to push drugs to my kids , i would also shoot first and ask questions latter,.

Ha ha ha, I wondered how long it would be before this thread brought out one of these nutcases!!!

Oh well , some of us are anti drugs and i see some are pro drugs , them again i am sure you can tell us all the great deeds that drug dealers contribute to society ,

I'm pro-justice and anti-slaughter, not pro-drugs.

The non-judicial butchery of uninvestigated, untried, unsentenced, and un-guilt-proven humans is not something to be "pro" about.

SrJ ... You should have lived in Java in the eighties ... that was a mean scene ... Anyway, your mates down south would probably disagree with you.

Naka.

[DP25]

Amusing that it's announced in a similar situation as Taksin's war on drugs, in that it the problem was completely blown out of proportion and the war launched in order to divert attention from domestic corruption scandals. I hope none of you people eat popey seed bagels or take any medications, there's bound to be plenty of urine tests going on in the nightlife areas.

[khunandy]

During the last blitz there were three yaa baa dealers in my wifes village who were warned twice by the local police to stop dealing, they didn't listen....they are not here anymore.

Unfortunately one of the guys wife was also killed in the execution by trying to block access to the husband from the gunman. Very sad for her family

Nothing was said, no protests lodged, the bodies were cremated by the familes. Although tragic in its own way my wife said the common opinion was that they were warned and should have listened.

Amphetamine usage is on the rise again in rural Thailand and they locals are paying the price with increasing theft and violent crime.

Off topic but one common act of theft is to steal temparary power lines from the farms...the village had a meeting and decided it was OK to shoot the thieves if caught in the act... rough justice can be swift in LOS.

[sriracha john]

Can't feel sorry about dead drug dealers ,. if i found a dealer trying to push drugs to my kids , i would also shoot first and ask questions latter,.

Ha ha ha, I wondered how long it would be before this thread brought out one of these nutcases!!!

Oh well , some of us are anti drugs and i see some are pro drugs , them again i am sure you can tell us all the great deeds that drug dealers contribute to society ,

I'm pro-justice and anti-slaughter, not pro-drugs.

The non-judicial butchery of uninvestigated, untried, unsentenced, and un-guilt-proven humans is not something to be "pro" about.

SrJ ... You should have lived in Java in the eighties ... that was a mean scene ...

Lived off and on in the Philippines during the 70's and 80's ... Marcos used the same non-judicial butchery of uninvestigated, untried, unsentenced, and un-guilt-proven humans.... some experts' estimates put it at 90,000.

Edited February 23, 2008 by sriracha john

[0Mix1up]

Call it a war and the rules/laws go out the window.

I would think the dealers would be arming themselves as we speak.

they will be more ready for the attacks.

[sriracha john]

...the village had a meeting and decided it was OK to shoot the thieves if caught in the act... rough justice can be swift in LOS.

even if you're a national symbol elephant....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1833983

Edited February 23, 2008 by sriracha john

[barky]

Which, if true, is probably even more worrying...

exactly.

when people sell their votes , either willingly , or due to coercion from local headmen and election agents , then they will get the government that they deserve.

true democracy can only work with a well educated electorate who vote responsibly in open elections.

if the voters can be corrupted to vote , then it goes without saying that the leaders will be even more corrupt.

it is endemic in this country , and everybody who happily pays 100b to the police when they are stopped in a car or without a helmet are just validating the system here. i've done it myself because i was lazy and its easier than going to the station or court.

endemic corruption has destroyed countries in the past , and it certainly is preventing any real development in this countries political systems , it may yet destroy this country when leaders can make statements like samak , and the only outcry likely to be heard is from foreigners.

the fact that people here are so accepting of this system and dont organise themselves and rise up against the reviled police and corrupt officials at every level here , shows that they are basically content to live easily under a system that takes all empowerment away from them and gives all that power to those who continually abuse them.

the corruption is so long standing and endemic here that there probably is no solution to it.

Yes I do agree. And as stated earlier, this is a beat up by the Thais in power in order to get rid of the competition and anyone else they deam as "ä problem". These summary executions are nothing to do with justice even if you do subscribe to the view that even a dead alleged drug pusher is better than a live one. However, that being said, they just may clean out a few that the world could do without which means some may feel a little safer in their beds at night. There a both pros and cons to this issue, but until Thais stop the use of viloence and murder to resolve individual or state problems, Thailand shall continue to remain on this, and other issues, an uncivilised, child-like, backward society.

Yes, and I could say, as long as I'm not one of the ones being hunted down like a dog, I am OK Jack.

[khunandy]

Given that over half, a majority if you will, that were killed had absolutely nothing to do with the drug trade I'm surprised anyone can defend these murders with a straight face.

I am sure vendettas are carried out and market opposition eliminated but I am curious as to where you get the figure of "over half" had nothing to do with the drug trade?

[Abrak]

Given that over half, a majority if you will, that were killed had absolutely nothing to do with the drug trade I'm surprised anyone can defend these murders with a straight face.

I am sure vendettas are carried out and market opposition eliminated but I am curious as to where you get the figure of "over half" had nothing to do with the drug trade?

Quote from the Nation...

"Of 2,500 deaths in the government's war on drugs in 2003, a fact-finding panel has found that more than half was not involved in drug at all. At a brainstorming session, a representative from the Office of Narcotics Control Board (ONCB) Tuesday disclosed that as many as 1,400 people were killed and labeled as drug suspects despite the fact that they had no link to drugs. ... Senior public prosecutor Kunlapon Ponlawan said it was not difficult to investigate extra-judicial killings carried out by police officers as the trigger-pullers usually confessed."[90][91]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

[chevykanteve]

Drug dealers and drug street-type sellers disappeared under Dr. Thaksin. Good riddance. Unfortunately, major pushers were left untouched, and indeed remained untouched by the "civil-society-Bangkok-gang-proponents" of the coup d'etat and their high (I didn't say hiighest) allies.

[gunnyd]

The last "Drug War" in LOS got some REALLY GREAT publicity. Recently watched a special on National Geographic on Meth (Yaba) and they had plenty of footage of "heroic" soldiers and police standing over dead bodies whilst under the Thaksin regime.

They can do what the Chinese did and are still rumored of doing. Summary execution of all drug dealers, drug addicts, and their entire families, even if they weren't drug addicts themselves and it won't slow down the drug trade one bit. Scary watching footage of scores of people from construction workers to taxi drivers smoking Yaba. It is well known that foremen give it to the workers at the beginning of their shift to increase productivity in LOS.

Yes illicit drugs are a scourge and should be treated as such. But as long as you give someone the opportunity to make in 1 day day more than he makes in a year there will always be drugs available. All harsh drug policies have done is fill the prisons in the US, and SEA not to mention fill the fields with dead bodies. Until the "War on Drugs" is treated as a social and health problem there will be no dent made in the sale or use of narcotics.

At least Philippine President Gloria Arroyo stopped the death penalty, you would think that Thailand would be more enlightened.

GunnyD

Edited February 23, 2008 by gunnyd

[khunandy]

"

Yet the government's narcotics control board concluded that more than half the victims had no involvement in drugs. One couple from north-eastern Thailand were shot dead after coming into unexplained wealth and being added to a black list. They were, in fact, lottery winners."

From today's Telegraph article, amongst many others.

Anybody personally heard of or know about innocents being bumped of in the name of the cleaning up the drug problem campaign?

I can see how easy somebody could end up on a "black list" you would think a lottery win would be easy enough to prove increased wealth, or don't they get the chance to explain?

[Briggsy]

You are correct to state that people whose names appeared on the blacklists were not told this. There was only rumour. Thus people were not sure what to do. Fearing their names were listed some with previous convictions reported to police stations to go on rehabilitation courses to avoid summary execution. Some of these were told not to worry and then shot on the way home from the police station. Each province had targets and if an insufficient number were killed the governor of the province was reprimanded.

[chevykanteve]

The last "Drug War" in LOS got some REALLY GREAT publicity. Recently watched a special on National Geographic on Meth (Yaba) and they had plenty of footage of "heroic" soldiers and police standing over dead bodies whilst under the Thaksin regime.

They can do what the Chinese did and are still rumored of doing. Summary execution of all drug dealers, drug addicts, and their entire families, even if they weren't drug addicts themselves and it won't slow down the drug trade one bit. Scary watching footage of scores of people from construction workers to taxi drivers smoking Yaba. It is well known that foremen give it to the workers at the beginning of their shift to increase productivity in LOS.

Yes illicit drugs are a scourge and should be treated as such. But as long as you give someone the opportunity to make in 1 day day more than he makes in a year there will always be drugs available. All harsh drug policies have done is fill the prisons in the US, and SEA not to mention fill the fields with dead bodies. Until the "War on Drugs" is treated as a social and health problem there will be no dent made in the sale or use of narcotics.

GunnyD

Number One: We were hesitant to walk the streets at night prior to Dr. Thaksin's war-on-drugs because of the almost ubiquitous presence of methamphetemine (=ya baa) addicts walking around here. That problem disappeared quickly-- I mean, REAL QUICKLY-- with the remedies employed. Thank God.

Number Two: China is not Thailand and Thailand is not China.

[girlx]

Can't feel sorry about dead drug dealers ,. if i found a dealer trying to push drugs to my kids , i would also shoot first and ask questions latter

as someone else said- BEING PRO OR NOT PRO DRUGS IS NOT THE POINT! you can't just going around killing people you "think" or are "told" are drug dealers! everyone deserves a fair trial. imagine how much room this gives for corruption! anyone can blacklist a neighbor they don't like as a drug dealer! it is a ridiculous policy which makes this look like a ridiculous country.

Yes illicit drugs are a scourge and should be treated as such. But as long as you give someone the opportunity to make in 1 day day more than he makes in a year there will always be drugs available. All harsh drug policies have done is fill the prisons in the US, and SEA not to mention fill the fields with dead bodies. Until the "War on Drugs" is treated as a social and health problem there will be no dent made in the sale or use of narcotics.

good post.

Edited February 23, 2008 by girlx

[BigSnake]

How many will be kill this time?? I wonder??

[invalidusername]

How many will be kill this time?? I wonder??

poor hill tribe people - easy to fill the quota with their bodies.

thailand will have a hard time to execute all the drug dealers, because it will have to convince the police to shot themselves.

[howtoescape]

thailand will have a hard time to execute all the drug dealers, because it will have to convince the police to shot themselves.

Exactly, weve seen a policeman kill a Canadian recently for what seems like a drunken argument, they can just go round killing whoever has annoyed them in their private life and blame it on drug dealing.

At places like the fullmoon party there will have to be a monthly massacre, are you all happy for farangs to get shot on the spot, they might get you by mistake.

Edited February 23, 2008 by howtoescape

[Chris Lawrence]

Good way to win votes

[haybilly]

From Today's Daily Telegraph.

Pretty good publicity for our new government.

Thailand threat to shoot 4,000 in drug war

By Thomas Bell in Bangkok

Last Updated: 1:52am GMT 23/02/2008

The new Thai government is to relaunch the country's "war on drugs" which killed more than 2,500 people allegedly involved in the trade.

During a three-month killing spree in 2003 as intense as a full-scale armed conflict, thousands named on police "black lists" were shot dead, allegedly on government orders.

Yet the government's narcotics control board concluded that more than half the victims had no involvement in drugs. One couple from north-eastern Thailand were shot dead after coming into unexplained wealth and being added to a black list. They were, in fact, lottery winners.

advertisementThe campaign was one of the principal policies of Thaksin Shinawatra, the former prime minister and Mr Samak's political patron, who now lives in exile and owns Manchester City Football Club.

"My government will decisively implement a policy against drug trafficking. Government officials must implement this policy 24 hours a day, but I will not set a target for how many people should die," said Samak Sundaravej, the new prime minister.

The interior minister Chalerm Yubamrung, said: "When we implement a policy that may bring 3,000 to 4,000 bodies, we will do it,"

Although the military junta which overthrew Mr Thaksin in 2006 called the killings "a crime against humanity", the former premier and his supporters - who were re-elected in December - insist that the dead were the victims of gang warfare, not police killings.

Yet there is strong evidence of police involvement. Many were shot days after being summoned to defend themselves before local authorities or after reporting to a police station to have their name removed from the "black list".

The government ordered the police to compile "back lists" which were as comprehensive as possible, then shorten the list by 25 per cent every month. Often the only way off the list was death.

Well, well, well--forgive me, but don't sue me [ or come round at night and shoot me!], if I'm wrong--but isn't this gentleman, the new interior minister, a Mr. Chalerm Yubamrung, the father of a nice young boy called DuangChalerm Yubamrung [??] one who executed a police sergeant in a BKK nightclub, shot him in the head whilst his cronies were holding him, alledgedly that is, and had to do a runner for a while--or am I mixing all these Yubamrungs up--I didn't write this, by the way--my cat did.