Are You Re-incarnated?

[garro]

Robski said;

to say that a belief cannot be proven to be false and therefore is a credible counter to scientific fact is a extremely bias and rather furtive argument.

I am sure you are aware how scientific methodology works. A theory/belief is proposed for some occurrence which scientists wish to study. This is set out in the form of a hypothesis which they try and disprove. It they fail to disprove it the theory remains not dis-proven. It never gets beyond this stage as there are an infinite number of times which things can occur and you can't test them all. So rather than being counter to scientific fact it is scientific fact.

[Robski]

Robski said;

to say that a belief cannot be proven to be false and therefore is a credible counter to scientific fact is a extremely bias and rather furtive argument.

I am sure you are aware how scientific methodology works. A theory/belief is proposed for some occurrence which scientists wish to study. This is set out in the form of a hypothesis which they try and disprove. It they fail to disprove it the theory remains not dis-proven. It never gets beyond this stage as there are an infinite number of times which things can occur and you can't test them all. So rather than being counter to scientific fact it is scientific fact.

Again a rather furtive argument.

When something is proved beyond reasonable doubt it becomes fact.

But for that which is unproven, logic would tell me the most likely answer is to found where there is an overwhelming weight of probability.

Reincarnation has no weight of probability, but people believe it because it makes life less two dimensional.

To say though that science has has not disproved reincarnation makes it an equal argument is furtive.

I'm sure you understand the point I'm making and I respect your views and that of Camerata,

I certainly would not post these views in the Buddhism forum as it would be disrespectful.

I think on a science vs theology discussion the best we can do is agree to disagree, but respect each others views.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Robski

[chutai]

When something is proved beyond reasonable doubt it becomes fact.

But for that which is unproven, logic would tell me the most likely answer is to found where there is an overwhelming weight of probability.

According to the hypothetico-deductive model that is known as a fallacy. There are no absolutes in science. Only that which is stands until disproven.

Again I reiterate. In Buddhism there is no such concept as reincarnation. The implications of accepting such a concept is more than mere pedantry.

Edited February 25, 2008 by chutai

[llso]

When I lived in Thailand for many years. I used to watch a Television show that came on like 3 or 4 in the morning. I t was a Monk Eng or something like that and people would write letters to him asking about dreams. Only a few shows had English subtitles. He would usually explain everything by karmic retribution from a past life. Like if you were mean to your wife your wife would be mean to you in another. He talked about earth spirits sky spirits and such. There was another Monkl a quite famous one in Buriram that we would visit as he liked me very much. he too would talk about the past lives.

This got me wondering that if everyone is reincarnated and your soul lives on recycled so to speak. What about when there were only a few million people on the planet? Now there are over 6 billion. Are there souls somewhere waiting for a body or is there a soul factory somewhere. I never got a chance to ask him this question.

LL

[garro]

When I lived in Thailand for many years. I used to watch a Television show that came on like 3 or 4 in the morning. I t was a Monk Eng or something like that and people would write letters to him asking about dreams. Only a few shows had English subtitles. He would usually explain everything by karmic retribution from a past life. Like if you were mean to your wife your wife would be mean to you in another. He talked about earth spirits sky spirits and such. There was another Monkl a quite famous one in Buriram that we would visit as he liked me very much. he too would talk about the past lives.

This got me wondering that if everyone is reincarnated and your soul lives on recycled so to speak. What about when there were only a few million people on the planet? Now there are over 6 billion. Are there souls somewhere waiting for a body or is there a soul factory somewhere. I never got a chance to ask him this question.

LL

I suppose one way of explaining this would be multiple universes, multiple dimensions or multiple planes of existence. I am just speculating here of course.

[chutai]

When I lived in Thailand for many years. I used to watch a Television show that came on like 3 or 4 in the morning. I t was a Monk Eng or something like that and people would write letters to him asking about dreams. Only a few shows had English subtitles. He would usually explain everything by karmic retribution from a past life. Like if you were mean to your wife your wife would be mean to you in another. He talked about earth spirits sky spirits and such. There was another Monkl a quite famous one in Buriram that we would visit as he liked me very much. he too would talk about the past lives.

This got me wondering that if everyone is reincarnated and your soul lives on recycled so to speak. What about when there were only a few million people on the planet? Now there are over 6 billion. Are there souls somewhere waiting for a body or is there a soul factory somewhere. I never got a chance to ask him this question.

LL

I suppose one way of explaining this would be multiple universes, multiple dimensions or multiple planes of existence. I am just speculating here of course.

Rebirth can take a multitude of forms ,and as you speculate, probably across a myriad of universes.

[camerata]

Way off-topic posts have been deleted. Let's not have any more.

[rono]

To Guesthouse: it wont help you but I once read that General Patton once said while in Europe that he has been here before as a Roman soldier.

Read in that same internet article that Ford (movie producer) was fluent in French while under hypnosis and he believed he had lived in France in the 18th-19th century.

My Thai wife told me I had a life with her a few hundred years ago.

I have a passion for native american history and culture: a search on some internet sites revealed that I had a past life in south america in the 14th century.

The bangkok post has written many stories about thai children and their past life experiences.

Somehow I like to believe I am re-incarnated, searching for the truth?

[BigSnake]

Yeah, think I was a snake, a big snake.

[kat]

Are there any reincarnated ancient Romans around here. I need help with my course work translating Cato.

Actually, if Cato himself is around that would be a great help.

[camerata]

I'm sure you understand the point I'm making and I respect your views and that of Camerata,

I certainly would not post these views in the Buddhism forum as it would be disrespectful.

I think everyone is starting to talk at cross-purposes now. As Chutai said, there is no reincarnation in Buddhist doctrine (with the possible exception of Tibetan Buddhism). Reincarnation is when a soul/self/entity migrates from one existence and body to another. This is a Hindu belief, a Shirley ("I was Cleopatra in my last life") MacLaine New Age belief and, unfortunately, the popular belief of most Thais.

To avoid misunderstanding, Western Buddhists use the term rebirth to describe a process in which separate existences are linked by a causal relationship. Reincarnation and rebirth are two very different concepts to a Buddhist.

As I understand it, the OP was talking about reincarnation rather than Buddhist rebirth. So I don't think we have to worry about Buddhist views as long as we are discussing reincarnation.

[camerata]

More off-topic posts deleted. Mark Lamai, Robski and Kat, quit squabbling and get on topic.

[camerata]

I have a passion for native american history and culture: a search on some internet sites revealed that I had a past life in south america in the 14th century.

How did you find out about your past life?

[Robski]

Thankyou.

Regarding Chutai's comment, I didn't know that reincarnation wasn't part of Buddhism,

but I do understand the concept of rebirth which I confused it with.

I see where I have misunderstood as you state that reincarnation is a popular belief amongst Thai's.

[Momo8]

I suggest we put this topic to rest and rebirth it in the morning.How's that for being reborn and I'm on topic though I will have deja vu feelings about this tomorrow.

[buffcoat]

Personally believe that 99% of these events are the mind playing tricks,deja-vu etc and far too many hypno regressions end up with the subject having been someone important...why are they never Sally the farmers daughter who died age 23 with 4 kids?

BUT based on my own direct experience I believe in the supernatural and reincarnation (not a Buddhist but my religion does accept reincarnation) of course I could be clinically insane and reading some of the comments on this thread some of you will certainly think I am

Should you accept the idea of reincarnation because I or anyone believes in it, absolutely not, but in the same vein it would be pleasant if those who are adamantly opposed would leave the door just slightly open to the notion that they might be in error

[t.s]

"I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

Mark Twain

your dogs anus made me laugh through my nose

[chutai]

I didn't know that reincarnation wasn't part of Buddhism,

but I do understand the concept of rebirth which I confused it with.

Many people (including Buddhists) do confuse rebirth with reincarnation.

However, for Buddhists , birth and death are mirror processes - during conception, gestation and birth one’s karmic conditions assemble the five components* when the circumstances are right and suddenly life is manifest. Life force does not infuse or occupy the physical form, since life force is an evolving factor of the physical form. For this reason the term reincarnation is incorrect - it might even be better to call it regeneration.

* Form - Physical body

Perception - Sight, Hearing, Smell...

Conception - Recognizing what has been perceived

Volition - Ability to act on what has been recognized

Consciousness - Ability to discriminate/judge

[Momo8]

Lol go and watch 'The Mummy' or 'The Mummy Returns' getting too deep and where's our OP?

Cheers,off to regenerate for the morning.

[Neeranam]

Many people (including Buddhists) do confuse rebirth with reincarnation.

Do some Buddhist believe in rebirth but not reincarnation?

[kiakaha]

From age 10 to 25 I stuck together with my best friend and we hiked all over Europe during our school holidays.

One day we visited the Camargue, South of France, Rhone river Delta.

As we wandered around my friend made a strange statement: "I was here before" Which was not possible sine we did everything together. Later that day we hit the small town of Saintes-Maries-de la Mer. We sat on the porche of the church and he went silent.

After some time he told me: "I was here before, in an other life"

Now that was strange and we philosophed a lot about this without reaching an agreement.

On the other hand, from age 10 also I never felt at home in my birth town and always dreamt of living somewhere else.

For 20 years I worked as an IT conslultant and worked/travelled all over Europe, from Italy to Finland, never found that magic place, and forgot about my friend's "been here before" feelings.

Then I spent one year around Montreal and Quebec, followed by one year USA: Atlanta mainly, also NY, Chicago, Seattle, Miami, San Diego. Then I went to work in Asia: Hong kong, Singapore, Taipe, Kuala Lumphur.

One night in December 1990 I walked out of The Sukhumvit Ambassador (not many hotels there in those days) and the smells, the heat and the people did it to me. I was here before, in an ohter life. But it did not fit 100%. The concrete to begin with.

So I travelled to Chiang Mai and hired a taxi to drive me up all the way to Mai Sai. Some scenery I saw gave me that 100% feeling of having lived around here long time ago.

I have been back many times since, travelled from Bangkok to Hat Yai, to Sanglakuburi, to Nong Khai, lived around Chumpon, moved to Isaan but never had that exact 100% feeling again. I still feel some of it every day when I ride my bycicle around the villages, it is strong, I feel home but many things are not right, the concrete again.

Then I remember that Oliver Stone movie, Heaven and Earth? A rice field with palm and coconut trees?

Driving on road 304 from Khon Kean to Kabin Buri I saw such a scenery, that was it 100%. I did not stop, why should I, did not find this to be that important. But it hangs there in my mind, every day. I just booked a trip to Vietnam, maybe I will experience it there again, although I don't think that Oliver Stone movie was shot there. Maybe I am simply wrong and Vietnam will not fit.

But I do feel more at home here in Issaan than anywhere else on this planet.

Anyone elsewithy similar feelings out here?

stop hogging the bong

[LucMee]

I was not a believer in reincarnation and had my doubts about Deja vu... I've been all around the world and never felt a strong connection to any one point.

Until I stopped on Okinawa.

I was driving through a little village just north of Nago and I was compelled to take a turn that was not in my plans... I knew I was HOME! I stopped in front of a little old house that I just knew I'd lived in... Strangest thing that has ever happened to me in a life full of strange things.

There's a whole lot more to the story as I have since met the people who've lived in that house since before the war... But suffice to say that there are enough details to leave coincidence in the bin.

So... Count me in as a believer.

[burman]

Sounds like an interesting experience, can we hear some more about it?

When in time did you think you had lived in the house? Did the old tenants/owners of the house have anything interesting to say about this?

[FBN]

Actually, if Cato himself is around that would be a great help.

If he were, you'd be out of a job!

[BigSnake]

Yep, use to be an old GOAT, come to think of it I still am.

[slackula]

4 pages of complete and utter bullshiat.

[Momo8]

You read it though

[micksterbs]

"Touche!"

[Pepe']

Buddhism is a crock.

Re-incarnation even moreso.

A crutch for the weak.

-------------------------

Come on emperor.

To say "Buddhism is a crock" I believe is "illegal" in Thailand and against forum rules.

It is, I feel, somewhat offensive to those millions of us who try to embrace it's wisdom.

Honestly, I expect better from you...

[Pundi64]

Buddhism is a crock.

Re-incarnation even moreso.

A crutch for the weak.

I see you are an asshol_e-