People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[BigSnake]

They are preparing for the return of the Big Guy. Bring it on big fella!!

[younghusband]

The PAD are on the march again, but they'll play it safe at first.

Perhaps a forum or workshop that will enable them to access and gauge the level of dissatisfaction and support amongst its core members concerning the probable return of Thaksin and other recent disturbing developments.

Then - a short while later - there will enivatably be the first public gathering of PAD supporters for a long time and this will surely be the acid test.

The 'authorities' under this mafia-led - Thaksin - Samak - gung-ho - hang 'em high - shoot first - totally lawless - without shame - corrupt - aggressive - violent outfit will undoubtedly come down hard - very hard - on any PAD protesters brave enough to show any public support for the PAD.

It's goin' to be nasty. Revenge is on the cards. The 'Night Of The Long Knives' comes to mind.

Events in BKK could even mimic events in Rangoon a few months ago. Sporadic and spontaneous small public gatherings of anti-Thaksin supporters in unannounced locations that are tenaciously and ruthlessly put-down by the terrible Samak and his newly found army cohorts and sycophants.

Count me in!

I don't do links but if anyone wants a break from overexcited farang fantasy exemplified by the post above read today's editorial in the Bangkok Post for a measured and sensible opinion on the PAD's current position.

[jayjayjayjay]

no sarcasm here, deadly serious - PAD should try smth novel and win an election. Anything else is simply undemocratic and hinders the govt from functioning.

when do we have a free and fair election?

h90 raving again! had them now leave if you not happy!

[ando]

PAD, (AKA People Against Democracy these days), have gone off the rails.

Even at their peak, PAD had support from only a tiny fraction of Thai voters. Eg: 100,000 protesters in Bangkok back in '06 represented only 0.3% of the countries voters.

Their street protests in 2006 may have been impressive by the sheer numbers who turned out. But behind the high profile publicity seeking front they don't have much actual support as was proved at the ballot box this year.

They are just another minority political pressure group with a narrow (anti-Thaksin) agenda and appealing to a narrow section of the voting community concentrated in Bangkok.

PADs glory days are over. Their followers who were taken in by their rhetoric back in 2006 have now deserted them en mass after the fiasco they created with the subsequent coup.

Now the PAD leaders are stirring the pot again trying to get back in the limelight, but they really have no windmills to tilt at this time and very little following. They should just go home and stop their whining if they want to avoid making absolute fools of themselves.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/27Feb2008_news14.php

"Outside the PAD, there are no important voices that oppose Mr Thaksin's return to Thailand. In fact, there are strong reasons to support his homecoming, beyond the fact he is a Thai citizen with the rights and duties of all Thais. The first is that it will show the strength of the nation, following elections that put Thailand back on the track to democracy. The second is the undoubted confidence that the courts are perfectly capable of handling each and all charges laid against the ex-premier already, and in the future. The rule of law is a thousand times better than the would-be PAD solution of street protests and intimidating crowds, which are likely to provoke more opposing throngs. The PAD's simplistic demand to keep Mr Thaksin out may indicate that the former pro-democracy group has last track of just what democracy entails.

At this moment, Thai voters and citizens have made a fresh start. The PAD's decision to go ''back to the future'' is not just stubbornly unimaginative, but troubling. The country is hoping and working for a solution to the divisions in the country. Citizens are demanding the government focus on the real problems, including the economy. Even if full reconciliation is not immediately achieved, Thais can work together to solve their problems.

The PAD wants to restart the unrest, divisions and threatened protests immediately. It is completely wrong.

When the anti-Thaksin groups came together in 2005 and began their cries of ''Thaksin auk pai'' (get out) they christened their coalition the People's Alliance for Democracy. Today, they have at least two of those words wrong. The group represents no popular will, nor is it interested in the democratic process. It is not difficult to determine that the vast majority of the nation wants Mr Thaksin to face justice, and wants to see if the Samak Sundaravej administration will run an efficient, accountable government. All members of the PAD need to take a cooling-off period and give democracy and the law a chance."

[chevykanteve]

EDITORIAL [today's Bangkok Post: partial copy]

No need for protest yet

With its flip-flop on the return of Thaksin Shinawatra, the self-styled People's Alliance for Democracy has put the proverbial cart far ahead of the horse. Mr Thaksin, it appears, is going to set foot on Thai soil tomorrow morning for the first time since September 2006.

The PAD, whose leaders and member factions have been demanding the ex-premier face the courts, suddenly has switched. On the shakiest grounds imaginable, the group now has demanded the ex-premier be kept away because they are not certain the justice system is now free of interference. The group has threatened public protests, including a return to street demonstrations, to make its point. But the PAD is wrong. For now, the group owes Mr Thaksin, the government and the country a long period of silence.

It is difficult to know just what motivated the fractured PAD to reassemble on Monday morning and issue a stirring call to street protest again. Leaders had openly avoided each other for months. In the dying days of the unlamented military regime that the PAD street protests helped to shatter, the PAD was unseen. Popular Campaign for Democracy secretary-general Suriyasai Katasila managed the occasional appearance in the run-up to the Dec 23 election. He consistently promised to give the elections, democracy and the Samak Sundaravej government a chance.

On Monday, something changed that. Suddenly, Mr Suriyasai, PAD founders Sondhi Limthongkul and Maj-Gen Chamlong Srimuang were all at the same table, reading a fiery statement against Mr Thaksin. They dismissed the elected government as ''the Thaksin regime''. Suddenly, the PAD feels that the government was meddling in the media, and interfering in the justice system.

..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....

Outside the PAD, there are no important voices that oppose Mr Thaksin's return to Thailand. In fact, there are strong reasons to support his homecoming, beyond the fact he is a Thai citizen with the rights and duties of all Thais. The first is that it will show the strength of the nation, following elections that put Thailand back on the track to democracy. The second is the undoubted confidence that the courts are perfectly capable of handling each and all charges laid against the ex-premier already, and in the future. The rule of law is a thousand times better than the would-be PAD solution of street protests and intimidating crowds, which are likely to provoke more opposing throngs. The PAD's simplistic demand to keep Mr Thaksin out may indicate that the former pro-democracy group has last track of just what democracy entails.

At this moment, Thai voters and citizens have made a fresh start. The PAD's decision to go ''back to the future'' is not just stubbornly unimaginative, but troubling. The country is hoping and working for a solution to the divisions in the country. Citizens are demanding the government focus on the real problems, including the economy. Even if full reconciliation is not immediately achieved, Thais can work together to solve their problems.

The PAD wants to restart the unrest, divisions and threatened protests immediately. It is completely wrong.

When the anti-Thaksin groups came together in 2005 and began their cries of ''Thaksin auk pai'' (get out) they christened their coalition the People's Alliance for Democracy. Today, they have at least two of those words wrong. The group represents no popular will, nor is it interested in the democratic process................

[sriracha john]

no sarcasm here, deadly serious - PAD should try smth novel and win an election. Anything else is simply undemocratic and hinders the govt from functioning.

when do we have a free and fair election?

h90 raving again! had them now leave if you not happy!

The post quoted above constitutes a "raving"????

[Plus]

Its rediculious logic to say that since 36% of the vote went to PPP, then conclude that 36% of people support Thaksin. Just plain distortion.

I think we define distortion differently. From my point of view to claim that 36% of the vote constitutes a majority looks like a clear case of distortion.

As for parties joining the coalition - they all supported populist policies but were clearly anti-Thaksin. Forming coalition on htese terms took about a month, it also took issuing five point demand list as a precondition for joining. These demands were rather clear - drop Thaksin and TRT from the agenda.

And, in case you haven't noticed, PPP complied and gave coalition partners more cabinet posts than their proportion in the parlament. Amnesty for TRT execs has been put on the back burner even before Samak postponed it till the last two months of his rule.

TRT/PPP vote dynamics show a clear trend of sliding from the highest point in 2005 through 2006 and to the last elections.

[Plus]

Speaking of Burma, Thaksin's spokesman (who concurrently serves as a Foreign Minister) said that Thailand will stop talking about democracy and human rights and concentrate on business.

[younghusband]

Speaking of Burma, Thaksin's spokesman (who concurrently serves as a Foreign Minister) said that Thailand will stop talking about democracy and human rights and concentrate on business.

Correct, and thus reflecting the same shameful Burma policy conducted by all Thai governments over at least two decades.

[Tony Clifton]

Speaking of Burma, Thaksin's spokesman (who concurrently serves as a Foreign Minister) said that Thailand will stop talking about democracy and human rights and concentrate on business.

"Thailand has no choice but to put national economic interests before human rights concerns in dealing with Burma", Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama said yesterday.

http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:_4gPi...;cd=1&gl=ca

Speaking of Burma, Thaksin's spokesman (who concurrently serves as a Foreign Minister) said that Thailand will stop talking about democracy and human rights and concentrate on business.

Correct, and thus reflecting the same shameful Burma policy conducted by all Thai governments over at least two decades.

So because others did it IN THE PAST, it makes sense for them to perpetuate this policy of business over human rights? Even now in 2008? It would be simpler to say that many deals were made under the Thaksin rule and they're about to get going.

[Plus]

You think Surin Pitsuwan had the same policy when he was Thailand's FM? Even Thaksin wasn't so blunt, he hoped to use business ties with Neu Win and others to change the regime from inside but that backfired, as we know in the hindsight.

[younghusband]

You think Surin Pitsuwan had the same policy when he was Thailand's FM? Even Thaksin wasn't so blunt, he hoped to use business ties with Neu Win and others to change the regime from inside but that backfired, as we know in the hindsight.

You're right that Surin talked the talk but the substance of Thai policy didn't change.I heard Thaksin talk at a FCCT dinner years ago and he was pretty blunt about Burma then in a very sickening way.As those who have read Handley's book will know.....need I go on?

[Plus]

I'm not sure that the substance of Thai policy didn't change under Surin and Chuan, or they haven't tried to change it and it was only talk.

At one point Chuan let Burmese hostage takers free pass out of the country. Generals were incensed, and so was Burmese government. Second time around there was no mercy but you can't say Democrat policies were as insensitive as Thaksin's, imo.

[chevykanteve]

Bangkok Post (28-February) (partial copy)

ANCHORMAN

Has PAD not hurt the country enough?

M.L. NATTAKORN DEVAKULA

PAD the Sequel: It is like seeing a bunch of disgruntled losers assemble for a purpose which serves only to extend their own existence.

The irrelevant press conference which the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) held this past Monday - their first official notice since temporarily disbanding back in October 2006 - was supposed to signal to all of us politically aware people that the band was once again back together.

What are we to make of this?

Well, you can certainly make the following out of it if you happen to agree with Mr Anchorman here.

After finding himself on the outside of the inner clique that served as Thaksin Shinawatra's closest confidants, Sondhi Limthongkul went on a verbal rampage on national television, knowing full well that his show would be cancelled. On the very day of that cancellation, shirts had already been prepared stamped with the statement: "We will fight for the King." The cancelled show, which grew into a movement attracting several thousand, took to Lumpini Park, in turn allowing people to come out to banter on the latest failings of the Thaksin administration.

Then came a man who, for all intents and purposes, has become a has-been in the political community - Chamlong Srimuang. Also after having found himself on the outside looking in, an unholy alliance was made with young Suriyasai Katasila and his little NGO known as the Campaign for Popular Democracy, activist Piphob Thongchai and union head Somsak Kosaisook, and the wildly irascible academic Somkiat Pongpaiboon. Luckily for these guys, what had been planned for Sept 20, 2006 never took place because we had a military coup the day before that.

Are you ready to read PAD the Sequel?

I'm beginning to hear phrases like "these guys no longer have the legitimacy to come out and protest"; "even if they protest, they won't be able to draw that large a crowd anyway"; "it's a constitutional right to hold an assembly of the marginalised".

I'll go on the record in saying right here that the People's Alliance for Democracy is one of the biggest misnomers in the history of Thai media. The very fact that you even had minor acceptance of this putsch-facilitating group was simply because then-PM Thaksin had so many enemies and had crossed too many influential higher-ups during the first five years of his administration.

The PAD is a not a force for democratic change. It never was and it never will be. The PAD comprises an academic who has managed to capitalise politically on the fame achieved by criticising the former prime minister; a formerly bankrupt self-proclaimed media mogul whose journalistic standards are exemplified in the "Sor 7" column on his website; a plaincloth-wearing "saint-like" former leader of a party which Mr Thaksin once financed; two misdirected activists, and an impressionable young man whose main purpose in life is holding press conferences every Sunday, trying to come up with new verbiage to describe Mr Thaksin's successes.

The PAD isn't a symbol for democratic transition; rather, it is the opposite. It has no respect for electoral mandates, no recognition of decisions made by the populace at the polls, and no understanding of the requirements needed in a developing country that cannot go another day without political stability.

If four consecutive election victories are not enough at this point, I really don't know what will suffice. The landslide victories achieved by the Thai Rak Thai party in 2001, 2005 and 2006 (the last was later nullified), then another win - albeit this one by the People Power party - in 2007, prove that no matter what is said and done, at least half of this country approves of Thaksin Shinawatra.

This statement is regardless of the findings made by the junta-appointed Assets Scrutiny Committee or the upcoming court decisions against the former PM. The dissolution of the country's largest political party, combined with the purging of nearly all major names associated with the Thaksin administration, was supposed to be the ultimate death knell. Yet, it was not.

Is it not time that some of these guys learned you cannot fight with a sustained natural momentum created by the masses? This is a phase - personal popularity or political brand loyalty - that those who wind up on the losing end must learn to deal with under the confines of the rules of the game. Any attempt to sabotage this phenomenon and the concomitant results of free and fair elections will simply reinforce Thailand's image as a semi-authoritarian managed democracy.

...... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... .......

The PAD never had legitimacy to overthrow a regime or force a prime minister's resignation. Former army chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin and the invisible grey hand behind him misread 100,000 protesters in September 2006 as a backdrop that in the end only became a false legitimising of the last power grab.

The sequel may read like one of the following scenarios:

- PAD protesters come out. Pro-Thaksin supporters come out. They clash and then the police send both sides home and the government imposes a temporary curfew before normalcy returns.

- PAD protesters come out. Pro-Thaksin supporters come out. The army usurps the conflict to launch a coup and install a new leadership. (The PAD can dream on; this isn't going to happen.)

- PAD protesters come out. No pro-Thaksin supporters show up. The situation drags on until the government peacefully disbands the crowd. A "third hand" throws a bomb to make it look like the government ordered the army to fire on civilians. The PAD claims the move as a rational reason to seek Samak Sundaravej's resignation as prime minister. (The PAD can again dream on; PM Samak is smarter than this.)

- PAD protesters come out. No pro-Thaksin supporters show up. The situation drags on until all protesters eventually leave and go back to their homes and offices to live normal lives, earning money by working like everyone else. The protesters finally learn that street games must end. This is a scenario I personally am dreaming will take place. Perhaps I'm fantasising, too.

At the end of the day, the PAD will do whatever it wants because it is only accountable to its six leaders. You cannot expect an organisation to cease to exist when its very purpose is to exist to cause trouble.

As long as the leader of the Democrat party doesn't waltz over to Phra Arthit road to give Sondhi Limthongkul flowers again; as long as no powers-that-be grant the green light for the PAD to be able to ride roughshod over everyone; as long as the armed forces do not take advantage of the situation, and as long as the newspapers in this capital do not unfavourably gang up on the administration the way they did leading up to Sept 19, 2006 - as long as none of these conditions are satisfied, the PAD Sequel will not draw box-office crowds like its first instalment did.

....... ....... ....... ....... .......

[jumnien]

The PAD openly supported the military coup of 2006 which was comprised of the very same group which massacred students in 1976. They are detestable.

[Plus]

The PAD openly supported the military coup of 2006 which was comprised of the very same group which massacred students in 1976. They are detestable.

You just made that up. It was Samak, the champion of democracy, who cheered Thammasat massacre,not Sonthi, and certainly not Surayud (whose father was a communist).

Talking about distortion of truth.

Oh, and the actual perpetrators of the violence were upcountry folks, people who still vote for Samak and the likes.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Plus

[thaigene2]

I'm sure most of us would agree that Thaksin and TRT/PPP are pretty reprehensible, people have a right to choose any as+hole they want to lead them. It's sad that some of you like to fall back on the old 'well stupid people will elect people like this'...I could say (and have) exactly the same about the 40-plus-something-million Americans who re-elected Bush.

But strip away all this righteous farang talk about how thaksin's a fraud, etc (which I think is probably right) and I see a disturbing dark side - it's a venting of right-wing types, who seem to believe that rich people are rich cause they're smarter and poor people are stupid and "need to be controlled" argument....you/they are more scary than Thaksin and his (ironically also right wing) cronies.

Let democracy have its way. Elections will sort things out...maybe not this one, but maybe future ones..If they don't - then have no fear because, eventually, the masses will have their way - as they should. Then all you guys with your "if you don't like it f++k off routine' can take your own advice and go back to America or UK and cry at the momunemtns to Reagan and Thatcher. Okay??

Edited February 28, 2008 by thaigene2

[BigSnake]

Happy Days are here again.

[Plus]

Let democracy have its way. Elections will sort things out...maybe not this one, but maybe future ones..If they don't - then have no fear because, eventually, the masses will have their way - as they should.

What's your time frame for eventually? Burmese next door are in the fifth decade already, and so are Vietnamese, and Chinese, and Singaporeans and countless others.

Once the country turns dictatorial with a single party/person usurping the power, "democracy" is no where to be seen, and it can last for generations. They have elections, too, and so do Cubans. Remember the latest HRW report condemning these sham democracies that rely only on having regular elections?

Or what about Khmer Rouge - truly popular movement for the poor, didn't turn out that well, did it? Would you recommend it as a blueprint for Isan taking over Thailand?

The only difference that matter is in who among 'elites" get to rule. Is it someone like Pol Pot, Suharto, or Tan Shwe, or someone like Lee or Mahathir.

[sriracha john]

Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket Urges Government to Seriously Look into Thaksin's Corruption Cases

The Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket declared it will support the anti-Thaksin People's Alliance for Democracy and urged the government to closely monitor Thaksin's alleged corruption cases.

Members of the Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket province made its first announcement today, declaring their support for the People's Alliance for Democracy following the return of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinnawatra to Thailand this morning.

Head of the Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation, Nutjarong Ekpermsab, stated that since the December 23rd general election that empowered the People Power Party-led government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, the hope of easing the national economic and political crises looked bleak.

He criticized the government's policies lean towards the direction of the former Thaksin administration. They aim to support some groups and not the general public.

Nutjaring said this is a matter the government must take into serious consideration. He adds that the corruption cases against the deposed Prime Minister require careful scrutiny under the legal process with no regard to Thaksin's earlier political post as Prime Minister.

The Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation said it will support the People's Alliance for Democracy in fighting against corruption.

- Thailand Outlook

=========================================================================

and in a related development....

Thailand Watch Foundation Member's Disappearance Investigated

The family of Thailand Watch Foundation member Kamon Laosopapan, who disappeared from his home on February 7th, continues their search. So far, the police investigation has detected no traces of the activist.

Kamon Laosopapan is a member of the Thailand Watch Foundation. He played an important role in exposing the alleged corruption in a state-railway land rental case in Kon Kaen's Banpai District. The disappearance was reported on February 7th. Kamon disappeared from his home without a trace.

Last Tuesday, news reporters in Kon Kaen said a local fisherman from Nakorn Panom province informed them that the body of a 50-year-old male was discovered adrift in the Khong River.

The deceased was found with both his hands and legs tied with bruises across his body. After dental records were compared with the remains, it was found that the unidentified man was not Kamon's.

Kamon's family expressed hope that Kamon is still alive and urge police to hurry its investigation. Banpai police Deputy Superintendent, Lieutenant Colonel Panit Chettasing revealed that so far, no traces have been found, adding that Kamon may have been harmed. No suspects have been identified.

The police say that normally Kamon is a man with a candid character. He was an informant in more than ten cases to the police, asking for charges to be filed against state authorities allegedly involved in corruption.

49-year-old Kamon is an alumni of Suankularb School, schoolmate to the People’s Network Against Corruption Chairman Weera Somkhwamkit, and is member of the Thailand Watch Foundation.

- Thailand Outlook

Edited February 29, 2008 by sriracha john

[chevykanteve]

Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket Urges Government to Seriously Look into Thaksin's Corruption Cases

The Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket declared it will support the anti-Thaksin People's Alliance for Democracy and urged the government to closely monitor Thaksin's alleged corruption cases.

Members of the Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket province made its first announcement today, declaring their support for the People's Alliance for Democracy following the return of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinnawatra to Thailand this morning.

Head of the Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation, Nutjarong Ekpermsab, stated that since the December 23rd general election that empowered the People Power Party-led government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, the hope of easing the national economic and political crises looked bleak.

He criticized the government's policies lean towards the direction of the former Thaksin administration. They aim to support some groups and not the general public.

Nutjaring said this is a matter the government must take into serious consideration. He adds that the corruption cases against the deposed Prime Minister require careful scrutiny under the legal process with no regard to Thaksin's earlier political post as Prime Minister.

The Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation said it will support the People's Alliance for Democracy in fighting against corruption.

- Thailand Outlook

=========================================================================

and in a related development....

Thailand Watch Foundation Member's Disappearance Investigated

The family of Thailand Watch Foundation member Kamon Laosopapan, who disappeared from his home on February 7th, continues their search. So far, the police investigation has detected no traces of the activist.

Kamon Laosopapan is a member of the Thailand Watch Foundation. He played an important role in exposing the alleged corruption in a state-railway land rental case in Kon Kaen's Banpai District. The disappearance was reported on February 7th. Kamon disappeared from his home without a trace.

Last Tuesday, news reporters in Kon Kaen said a local fisherman from Nakorn Panom province informed them that the body of a 50-year-old male was discovered adrift in the Khong River.

The deceased was found with both his hands and legs tied with bruises across his body. After dental records were compared with the remains, it was found that the unidentified man was not Kamon's.

Kamon's family expressed hope that Kamon is still alive and urge police to hurry its investigation. Banpai police Deputy Superintendent, Lieutenant Colonel Panit Chettasing revealed that so far, no traces have been found, adding that Kamon may have been harmed. No suspects have been identified.

The police say that normally Kamon is a man with a candid character. He was an informant in more than ten cases to the police, asking for charges to be filed against state authorities allegedly involved in corruption.

49-year-old Kamon is an alumni of Suankularb School, schoolmate to the People’s Network Against Corruption Chairman Weera Somkhwamkit, and is member of the Thailand Watch Foundation.

- Thailand Outlook

How many members does the Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation have? I bet they'll send thousands to the next PAD gathering, if there is one.

[thaigene2]

Let democracy have its way. Elections will sort things out...maybe not this one, but maybe future ones..If they don't - then have no fear because, eventually, the masses will have their way - as they should.

What's your time frame for eventually? Burmese next door are in the fifth decade already, and so are Vietnamese, and Chinese, and Singaporeans and countless others.

Once the country turns dictatorial with a single party/person usurping the power, "democracy" is no where to be seen, and it can last for generations. They have elections, too, and so do Cubans. Remember the latest HRW report condemning these sham democracies that rely only on having regular elections?

Or what about Khmer Rouge - truly popular movement for the poor, didn't turn out that well, did it? Would you recommend it as a blueprint for Isan taking over Thailand?

The only difference that matter is in who among 'elites" get to rule. Is it someone like Pol Pot, Suharto, or Tan Shwe, or someone like Lee or Mahathir.

Well Plus - at least you added Singapore to the list. Well done. But what about Chile under Pinochet, Argentina, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Cuba's dictatorship (prior to Castro), oh -- and wait for it -- Granada -- what the f+ck was THAT all about?

Yep - you're right "the only difference that matter is in who among the 'elites" get to rule" - Guess what? The masses rarely get a chance to rule for very long before Elite Big Brother steps in!

[sriracha john]

Transfers give rise to new group of government critics

Will oppose any Thaksin regime revival

Former Democrat member Chaiwat Sinsuwong will lead a new anti-Thaksin group to monitor work of ministers and join the People's Alliance for Democracy to oppose any attempts to revive the Thaksin regime. His group, named ''The Assembly of People of Thailand,'' was formed in response to increasing worries over recent actions by the People Power Party-led government, especially its transfer of senior officials, during the return of ousted PM Thaksin. "Some people believe the PPP will act as a nominee of the dissolved TRT Party, and its decision to move around these senior officials corresponds with the return of Thaksin,'' said Chaiwat. He said his group would urge the public to monitor the administration led by PM Samak. Chaiwat plans to meet fellow Thaksin critics PAD every Wednesday to discuss strategies to hinder any state attempts to abuse power and interfere with prosecutions underway against Thaksin. The two groups are worried about the government's contentious transfers of senior officials, including DSI Chief Sunai Manomai-udom and National Police Chief Sereepisut Taemeeyaves. The Assembly of People of Thailand will meet Sunai on Tuesday to ask him to file a complaint with the Administrative Court over the unfair transfer.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/02Mar2008_news10.php

Edited March 2, 2008 by sriracha john

[chevykanteve]

Transfers give rise to new group of government critics

Will oppose any Thaksin regime revival

Former Democrat member Chaiwat Sinsuwong will lead a new anti-Thaksin group to monitor work of ministers and join the People's Alliance for Democracy to oppose any attempts to revive the Thaksin regime. His group, named ''The Assembly of People of Thailand,'' was formed in response to increasing worries over recent actions by the People Power Party-led government, especially its transfer of senior officials, during the return of ousted PM Thaksin. "Some people believe the PPP will act as a nominee of the dissolved TRT Party, and its decision to move around these senior officials corresponds with the return of Thaksin,'' said Chaiwat. He said his group would urge the public to monitor the administration led by PM Samak. Chaiwat plans to meet fellow Thaksin critics PAD every Wednesday to discuss strategies to hinder any state attempts to abuse power and interfere with prosecutions underway against Thaksin. The two groups are worried about the government's contentious transfers of senior officials, including DSI Chief Sunai Manomai-udom and National Police Chief Sereepisut Taemeeyaves. The Assembly of People of Thailand will meet Sunai on Tuesday to ask him to file a complaint with the Administrative Court over the unfair transfer.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/02Mar2008_news10.php

Mr. Samak, Dr. Thaksin, et al, must all feel very flattered that there are so many new groups, with the same old faces, "monitoring" them. It would be even more productive if some of those old faces took a long look in the mirror and asked themselves what use they are to the majority of the population of this country.

[Ricardo]

Perhaps Dr Thaksin & PM Samak might also, as self-proclaimed 'friends of the poor', ask themselves that same question as well ?

[chevykanteve]

Perhaps Dr Thaksin & PM Samak might also, as self-proclaimed 'friends of the poor', ask themselves that same question as well ?

The PPP managed to win the last election, didn't it? Details...

[Plus]

Winning elections doesn't justify corruption.

Yep - you're right "the only difference that matter is in who among the 'elites" get to rule" - Guess what? The masses rarely get a chance to rule for very long before Elite Big Brother steps in!

Glad you understand that. If you look at it as a choice between two evils, than Thaksin is the worst one.

I, however, see it as a natural order of things. Elites always rule, masses always follow. It doesn't work any other way. Even if masses get control, they soon choose some new elites as their new masters.

The main difference is - who gets to rule, Mahathir or Suharto. Asia doesn't offer any other choices. Dennis Hasbert from "24" was a cool president but you don't get people like that here. You get Marcoses, Lees, Hun Sens, and now Thaksin, who maid money from the farmers, sold out to Singapore and invested in England. Great fuc_king leader.

Businesmen do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money. Even Samak is a better leader than Thaksin in that sense.

[chownah]

Businesmen do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money.

Plus,

Think about this.....is this really what you intended to say? It seems so wrong in so many different ways.

In Thailand I think it makes more sense to say, "Politicians do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money."

Chownah

What's your time frame for eventually? Burmese next door are in the fifth decade already, and so are Vietnamese, and Chinese, and Singaporeans and countless others.

I believe that Vietnam presently has the most democratic gov't that it has ever had in its entire history....more people's opinions are now taken into account than ever before...I think......also.....Vietnam is now having the most prosperous period in its entire history if you measure prosperity by the amount of wealth produced and consumed within a country and how widespread the wealth is distributed. The Vietnamese people have never had it so good...even people who fought against the communists are saying this....this is the most properous time in Vietnam ever.

Chownah

It was Samak, the champion of democracy, who cheered Thammasat massacre,

Did Samak cheer the massacre? There has been some confusion about Samak's role in the massacre with some people suggesting that he was officially involved....now that it seems that he had no official standing at the time and was working for a right wing media (was it newspaper or was it radio?) people here have backed off from accusing him of the violence directly. Now you are accusing him of having cheered the massacre so excuse me if I'm sceptical of this claim since other claims (don't know if you made them or if it was someone else so I'm not accusing you of having made the claims) as to Samak's culpability were wrong...so I'm wondering where you got your information that Samak cheered the massacre....I'd really like to get some copies or transcript of what Samak had to say....do you have access to some of these?

Chownah

Edited March 2, 2008 by chownah

[Plus]

Businesmen do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money.

Plus,

Think about this.....is this really what you intended to say? It seems so wrong in so many different ways.

In Thailand I think it makes more sense to say, "Politicians do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money."

No, I meant businessmen, and I didn't mean Thailand in particular. Real leaders lead their people and their countries through crises and wars. Businessmen profit from them. That's what Thaksin did in 1997, incidentally.

What's your time frame for eventually? Burmese next door are in the fifth decade already, and so are Vietnamese, and Chinese, and Singaporeans and countless others.

I believe that Vietnam presently has the most democratic gov't that it has ever had in its entire history....more people's opinions are now taken into account than ever before...I think......also.....Vietnam is now having the most prosperous period in its entire history if you measure prosperity by the amount of wealth produced and consumed within a country and how widespread the wealth is distributed. The Vietnamese people have never had it so good...even people who fought against the communists are saying this....this is the most properous time in Vietnam ever.

It's a communist country, for crying out loud. I can't believe we need to discuss this. They don't even have meaningful elections and they don't tolerate any political opposition. If you think it's a suitable political model for Thailand, you'll have to physically exterminate about 15 millions of Thais to bring this kind of unity.

Vietnam's time to deal with these issues will come sooner or later. If common folk won't make noise, there will be serious power struggle in upper echelons. It's inevitable.

It was Samak, the champion of democracy, who cheered Thammasat massacre,

Did Samak cheer the massacre? There has been some confusion about Samak's role in the massacre with some people suggesting that he was officially involved....now that it seems that he had no official standing at the time and was working for a right wing media (was it newspaper or was it radio?) people here have backed off from accusing him of the violence directly. Now you are accusing him of having cheered the massacre so excuse me if I'm sceptical of this claim since other claims (don't know if you made them or if it was someone else so I'm not accusing you of having made the claims) as to Samak's culpability were wrong...so I'm wondering where you got your information that Samak cheered the massacre....I'd really like to get some copies or transcript of what Samak had to say....do you have access to some of these?

It's not unusual for you to display complete ignorance of even the basic facts. Go to wikipedia article, it's all covered in there.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Plus

[chownah]

It's not unusual for you to display complete ignorance of even the basic facts. Go to wikipedia article, it's all covered in there.

Yes, I am completely ignorant of the basic facts of this issue and admit it openly and freely. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant....that can easily be changed if one is open minded by simply learning the facts....I'm very fortunate that I am not closed minded since being closed minded gets in the way of dispelling igorance by learning the facts and tends to perpetuate ignorance.

Which wikipedia article (unbiased source??....maybe...maybe not) are you referring to?

Chownah

...yes...Vietnam is a communist country (more or less) but my comments still stand....in the not too distant future the Vietnamese economy will almost assuredly become more productive than the Thai economy....especially note that there is more democracy in Vietnam now then there has ever been in its history in that the decision making process is now spread among a larger number of people from a more varied background than ever before.

Chownah

Edited March 3, 2008 by chownah