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Samak Sundaravej was elected


Jai Dee

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Just to add context here, as someone familiar with the situation, I recall a time when Samak & Thaksin got themselves into such a state with each other that, effectively HM requested them to cool it. The expectation that these two combative individuals would be all sweetness and light, especially after Samak's position received Royal Assent always struck me as curious.

Regards

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Bangkok Post breaking news 16:03

Quote

Prasong: Current situation similar to that of before coup

Current political situation has not been improved comparing to that of before the coup d'etat in 2006 because the new government is proxy of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, National Legislative Assembly (NLA) member Prasong Soonsiri said Tuesday.

Sqn-ldr Prasong said the new cabinet members are representatives from the government that was in power before the Sep 19 coup.

He called on Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej to give priority to the country and the people, not his own political party People Power party.

Unquote

Ref url :- http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=125733

Surely this is against the legalities ref. the Banning the TRT and just allows them to continue under the PPP banner.

It has to an illegal arrangement be it proxy or otherwise and should therefore be undemocratic to say the least.

We keep getting the democratically elected excuse played back at us.

I would suggest otherwise !!!!

marshbags

Edited by marshbags
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I am starting to get the feeling that once he has full endorsement, Samak might just turn his back and try to wash his hands of the ex. chairman.

If he does that - he surely can't be as bad as many have portrayed him to be. :o

While all of this sounds like Samak being his normal self (and he is that bad), somehow I keep getting the sneaking suspicion that maybe, just maybe, this is all a put up by Thaksin to defray any accusations that Samak is his proxy. Time will tell.

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I am starting to get the feeling that once he has full endorsement, Samak might just turn his back and try to wash his hands of the ex. chairman.

If he does that - he surely can't be as bad as many have portrayed him to be. :o

While all of this sounds like Samak being his normal self (and he is that bad), somehow I keep getting the sneaking suspicion that maybe, just maybe, this is all a put up by Thaksin to defray any accusations that Samak is his proxy. Time will tell.

Time will tell.

Who knows what the master strategist and her husband are up too?

Can't see them waiting 2 - 3 years to let the Assets committy gain strength and build more cases against them and their cronies though, while Samak just decides to turn a blind eye rather than carrying out his promise to dismantle it. Maybe this was a secret compromise with the CNS.

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I am starting to get the feeling that once he has full endorsement, Samak might just turn his back and try to wash his hands of the ex. chairman.

If he does that - he surely can't be as bad as many have portrayed him to be. :D

Not a personal attack on you, butttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

Perhaps he is the one responsible for how people portray him, don,t you think SM :o

The ball is in his court on how Thai,s preceive his actions relating to many unanswered questions that were raised / highlighted during the last governments

time in office.

I do not expect him to change, just to name but one issue that effects him personally and comes into the equation

The Bangkok fire truck offences and the fact that he is supposed to have been convicted and should be serving a TWO year sentence that was handed down legally after being tried and convicted

He would after all be expected to serve his time and would therefore be unable to carry out his duties as the newly elected P.M.

Naa, forgive the pun, but pigs will fly first :D :D

marshbags :D

Edited by marshbags
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The Nation again shines in presenting articles for the troglodytes.

The Nation forgets again that any position should be supported by arguments that are both valid and sound.

This is nothing but a blatant insult to any intelligence above the level of pondlife.

Cheer on, boys...

umm, how do you expect others to listen to you if you can't even listen to your own advice! :o

So, how do you support your rather dramatic sounding position/opinion regarding the Nation and troglodytes and pondlife?

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Surely this is against the legalities ref. the Banning the TRT and just allows them to continue under the PPP banner.

It has to an illegal arrangement be it proxy or otherwise and should therefore be undemocratic to say the least.

We keep getting the democratically elected excuse played back at us.

I would suggest otherwise !!!!

marshbags

People keep trying to sneak the "proxy" word into this and the definition for "proxy" as it applies to decision making in a legalistic sense is definitely not what is happening between Samak and Toxin....nominee is much more appropriate....and pray tell what laws is being broken with this....I think you wish that a law was being broken but if wishes were horses......

You and I might feel uneasy with a PM who simply implements another persons policies but the people who voted for Samak knew precisely that he was a nominee for Toxin so I guess for him to get the bulk of his advise from Toxin is really not so undemocratic at all....the voters are getting what he said he would provide and what they voted for. There is a precedent for this in US politics...Reagan was famous for surrounding himself with advisors and running the gov't with little of his own input....and from most reports the voters were well happy with the results......I don't particularly admire what he accomplished or how he did it but I would not go so far as to say that it was "undemocratic" for the gov't to be run that way.....please...let's NOT have a discussion of US politics.

Chownah

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People keep trying to sneak the "proxy" word into this and the definition for "proxy" as it applies to decision making in a legalistic sense is definitely not what is happening between Samak and Toxin....nominee is much more appropriate....and pray tell what laws is being broken with this....I think you wish that a law was being broken but if wishes were horses......

Look, I don't know if any actual law is being broken but its pretty obvious whats being broken here is the spirit of the law. Its a shame that does not mean much to some people though... it boils down to respect for the law.

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People keep trying to sneak the "proxy" word into this and the definition for "proxy" as it applies to decision making in a legalistic sense is definitely not what is happening between Samak and Toxin....nominee is much more appropriate....and pray tell what laws is being broken with this....I think you wish that a law was being broken but if wishes were horses......

Look, I don't know if any actual law is being broken but its pretty obvious whats being broken here is the spirit of the law. Its a shame that does not mean much to some people though... it boils down to respect for the law.

The spirit of what law or should I say which law? It is a shame that the members of the PPP should be expected to not do for the voters what they said they were going to do all along...and that is to implement Toxin's policies....which is totally acceptable under the law as it well should be. To try to say that people in gov't can not accept what they think is the best advise and then to act on that advise is absolutely undemocratic and a gross violation of intellectual freedom..."sorry, you can't run for office because you think that Toxin's policies (all of which are prefectly legal) should be implemented"....you've got to be kidding...isn't this violating the spirit of free thought?...this is the opposite of political freedom...."sorry, but you can not be the minister of xyz because Toxin thinks you would be the best person for the job"...again....what kind of political philosophy would propose to run a society this way?....should we make every political aspirant take a quiz about which of Toxin's policies they like and have a grading system...if you like too many of them then you are disqualified?...please do remember that there are non PPP people in various parties who are in favor of alot of Toxin's policies now that they have been proven to be effective....should they be accused of breaking the "spirit of the law" too?

Chownah

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In most countries of the world, when a military junta has oppressed a people and stripped it of its democratically elected government and forced its leader to live in exile, a proxy of that exiled leader will win the popular vote. Same Same here in Thailand. If the goons would just go back to their barracks and stay there, all would be well, well enough, that is.

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[samak] said he disagreed with the idea of appointing Ranongrak Suwanchawee, who has nursing experience, to the job of Deputy Finance Minister, but said there would be no more changes. Mrs Ranongrak is the wife of banned TRT executive Pairote Suwanchawee.

===========================================================================

It only makes sense that if a medical doctor is made Finance Minister that a nurse be made Deputy Finance Minister.

PPP secretary-general says Dr. Thaksin will not be behind economic team

The People Power Party (PPP) secretary-general, Dr. Surapong Suebwonglee, says the deposed Prime Minister and former leader of the dissolved Thai Rak Thai Party, Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra, will not get himself involved with the coalition government's plan to restore the national economy.

Is this supposed to be reassuring that a businessman won't be behind the "economic team," but that a doctor and a nurse will? :D:o

*Edit.

Of course, that's if the doctor isn't sent off to serve a prison sentence for corruption as per Post #324.

Edited by sriracha john
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In most countries of the world, when a military junta has oppressed a people and stripped it of its democratically elected government and forced its leader to live in exile, a proxy of that exiled leader will win the popular vote. Same Same here in Thailand. If the goons would just go back to their barracks and stay there, all would be well, well enough, that is.

Pardon me for pointing it out, but Thaksin was surely invited back to Thailand, even to the point of attempting extradition, to attend to various matters in court ?

But chose not to come because he was guilty 'afraid for his personal-safety'.

And now has retired to London to think of an alternative excuse to attend to his other business-interests.

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In most countries of the world, when a military junta has oppressed a people and stripped it of its democratically elected government and forced its leader to live in exile, a proxy of that exiled leader will win the popular vote. Same Same here in Thailand. If the goons would just go back to their barracks and stay there, all would be well, well enough, that is.

Can you back that up with some links please or do you prefer to be shown time and time again your views have no basis except in your head.

Edited by John K
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People keep trying to sneak the "proxy" word into this and the definition for "proxy" as it applies to decision making in a legalistic sense is definitely not what is happening between Samak and Toxin....nominee is much more appropriate....and pray tell what laws is being broken with this....I think you wish that a law was being broken but if wishes were horses......

Look, I don't know if any actual law is being broken but its pretty obvious whats being broken here is the spirit of the law. Its a shame that does not mean much to some people though... it boils down to respect for the law.

The spirit of what law or should I say which law? It is a shame that the members of the PPP should be expected to not do for the voters what they said they were going to do all along...and that is to implement Toxin's policies....which is totally acceptable under the law as it well should be. To try to say that people in gov't can not accept what they think is the best advise and then to act on that advise is absolutely undemocratic and a gross violation of intellectual freedom..."sorry, you can't run for office because you think that Toxin's policies (all of which are prefectly legal) should be implemented"....you've got to be kidding...isn't this violating the spirit of free thought?...this is the opposite of political freedom...."sorry, but you can not be the minister of xyz because Toxin thinks you would be the best person for the job"...again....what kind of political philosophy would propose to run a society this way?....should we make every political aspirant take a quiz about which of Toxin's policies they like and have a grading system...if you like too many of them then you are disqualified?...please do remember that there are non PPP people in various parties who are in favor of alot of Toxin's policies now that they have been proven to be effective....should they be accused of breaking the "spirit of the law" too?

Chownah

ok a bit of misunderstanding.

Your original quote was about nominees and "proxy" & samak & toxin & if any laws regarding this were being broken.

Then I commented on that.

Then you start scratching your head and going on about policies or something... bit of a flimsy connection. anyway, no matter :o

I'll start again.

People keep trying to sneak the "proxy" word into this and the definition for "proxy" as it applies to decision making in a legalistic sense is definitely not what is happening between Samak and Toxin....nominee is much more appropriate....and pray tell what laws is being broken with this....I think you wish that a law was being broken but if wishes were horses......

Thaksin is banned for a few years from politics. So are a bunch of his TRT mates. Now they are all sliding their way back in, with this dodgy nominee or proxy method. Maybe it is legal i dont know, but it's disresepectul for the law and certainaly not in the spirit of the law.

Its like getting banned or suspended for 5 years from this forum, sure you can just reregister as another member and continue posting, and probably never get caught becasue nothing can be proved, doesn't mean it is right though.

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Perfectly fitting analogy, traveller..... :D

:o

Not really a perfect analogy because the esteemed mods and admin of our forum are fair and evenhanded (even when sorely tested by the awkward squad!).

That cannot be said for the shameful crew who rubbed the Thai peoples face in the dirt after the illegal coup, manipulated the legal process and then hypocritically started preaching about the rule of law.The TRT were no angels but nobody, outside the usual suspects, seriously believes the punishment fitted the crime.

So actually it's a lousy analogy.

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Samak's water plan too hasty

But one has to wonder if PM Samak consulted Thaksin or anyone else before hitting upon his second proposal: to divert water from the Mekong River to irrigate the thirsty Northeast. The diversion scheme would transport water via underground tunnels to reservoirs in Loei and Udon Thani provinces, from where it would then be distributed throughout the Northeast. Such a scheme has been considered in the past. Veera Wongsaengnak, Deputy Chief of the Irrigation Depart., said the department had conducted a study on the feasibility of diverting Mekong River water to the Northeast ''years ago'', but had concluded that, while technically possible, it was not economically viable. In short, Veera suggested there were cheaper alternatives that would be more effective in solving water shortages in the Isan region.

He also pointed out that such a project would be significantly complicated by the fact that the Mekong is an international waterway. It is inconceivable that countries downstream of the diversion would not raise major objections to the siphoning of large amounts of water from the river, especially since hydroelectric dams in China have already led to much lower water levels in the river for long periods.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/06Feb2008_news14.php

Edited by sriracha john
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I am starting to get the feeling that once he has full endorsement, Samak might just turn his back and try to wash his hands of the ex. chairman.

If he does that - he surely can't be as bad as many have portrayed him to be. :D

Not a personal attack on you, butttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

Perhaps he is the one responsible for how people portray him, don,t you think SM :o

The ball is in his court on how Thai,s preceive his actions relating to many unanswered questions that were raised / highlighted during the last governments

time in office.

I do not expect him to change, just to name but one issue that effects him personally and comes into the equation

The Bangkok fire truck offences and the fact that he is supposed to have been convicted and should be serving a TWO year sentence that was handed down legally after being tried and convicted

He would after all be expected to serve his time and would therefore be unable to carry out his duties as the newly elected P.M.

Naa, forgive the pun, but pigs will fly first :D:bah:

marshbags :D

The comment was in jest marshbags. :o

Personally, I can't understand how a convicted criminal appealing the decision can be elected to the highest office with the support of the public and his peers. :D

Basically it is just thumbing one's nose at the legal system.

We are where we are & hopefully his masters will be able to keep him on a very short leash. :bah:

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Thaksin is banned for a few years from politics. So are a bunch of his TRT mates. Now they are all sliding their way back in, with this dodgy nominee or proxy method. Maybe it is legal i dont know, but it's disresepectul for the law and certainaly not in the spirit of the law.

I think it is more accurate to say that it is disrespectful of the military dictatorship and the gov't which it unilaterally imposed on the citizens of Thailand. In a certain respect one could say that for the present gov't to implement Toxin's policies is in the best spirit of democracy and legitimate governance since it reinstates the policies of the democratically elected gov't which was destroyed by the military dictatorship and it also is giving the voters what they want and have voted for.

Chownah

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Personally, I can't understand how a convicted criminal appealing the decision can be elected to the highest office with the support of the public and his peers. :o

Basically it is just thumbing one's nose at the legal system.

You are correct. This act is in effect the voters of Thailand thumbing their noses at the military dictatorship....which afterall had become the legal system. Clearly the voters of Thailand didn't like the military dictatorship (well a minority probably liked them).....it is sad however that a better gov't wasn't chosen but you know given the fact that the country was under the rule of a military dictatorship its removal was of primary concern.....I think most Thai's are relieved that the military is at least receding from the limelight and direct control even if they are not absolutely gone and the quality of the gov't is of secondary importance....backing off the military was the first item on the agenda...next will come rearranging the gov't to more closely suit the wishes of the voters.....of course not everyone will agree that the changes will more nearly represent the wishes of the voters but then that's what politics is all about isn't it?

Chownah

Edited by chownah
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Nominee or proxy relationships are unconstitutional.

MPs are obliged to represent their electorate, not any particular individual.

Legally they can only take advice from banned TRT execs, not follow their orders.

I hope people can see the difference policies and personalities. TRT executives are not synonimous with TRT policies.

>>>

I don't know which is worse for economy - Thaksin's proxy or Samaks own. Thaksin has at least expertise.

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P2051194.jpg

Nurse as Deputy Finance Minister - Na Ban Bangkae by Buncha/ Kamin

Left: Samak says: I can't stand how we have a nurse to be the Deputy Finance Minister.

Right: Why? How about a cooking teacher being the PM?

- 2Bangkok

================================================================================

Ranongrak: Let me prove myself

Ranongrak Suwanchawee, a nurse who became a politician, yesterday asked for a chance to prove she is a good choice for the post of Deputy Finance Minister. Ranongrak is the wife of Pairote Suwanchawee, one of the 111 TRT executives banned from politics for five years. She is seen as her husband's nominee in the cabinet led by PM Samak Sundaravej. Ranongrak, a Puea Pandin Party MP for Nakhon Ratchasima, said her cabinet appointment had attracted much criticism from those who questioned her suitability for the job, so she would like to be given a chance to prove her critics wrong. A cabinet minister's job is to make policy, not to do all the work to implement it, said Mrs Ranongrak.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/06Feb2008_news13.php

Edited by sriracha john
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Samak mightn’t have an easy path, possibly lose power during May-September

According to Bunlert Pairin, a well-known fortune teller, the new prime minister Samak Sundaravej is expected to have ill fortune during May 7-September 16, 2008. He might lose his post during the period.

- 2Bangkok (translated and summarized from Thai Insider)

===============================================================

The same astrologer also had some dire predictions for one of Samak's predecessors...

Astrologer warns Thai PM

BANGKOK - Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has been warned that his life is in danger, either from an assassination attempt or an accident.

The warning comes not from security officials but a well-known astrologer-senator, Boonlert Pairin, who is not affiliated with any party. His predictions dominated Thai newspaper, radio and television reports Friday but Thaksin dismissed the dire prophecy as superstitious balderdash.

Pairin told reporters that he checked Thaksin's stars and found that he faces a critical period between Dec. 16 and Jan. 14, possibly in the form of an assassination attempt or an accident.

He said he has written to Thaksin with three solutions to ward off the tragedy: performing a religious rite, meditation to purify the soul or dissolving the parliament. He also urged Thaksin to put off foreign travel.

Thaksin, however, told Pairin and other fortune tellers to burn their books if their predictions prove to be wrong.

"I believe in science and the preaching of Lord Buddha. I don't believe in the supernatural," Thaksin said.

A majority of Thais, most of whom are Buddhists, believe in astrology and fortune telling to some extent, and supernatural beliefs play a major role in the society.

Source: AP

The former PM certainly changed his thinking subsequent to the above article...

Just before, the newly-appointed House Speaker Yongyuth Tiyapairat let Sinsae Boong, a feng shui expert, assess his office at Parliament, which is on the second floor. Sinsae Boong said the desk was badly located opposite the entrance, against feng shui principles. He advised Yongyuth move it to face the Ananda Samakhom Throne Hall. He also checked decorations in the building, especially on the second floor, for good luck.

Pojaman Shinawatra, wife of former prime minister Thaksin, engaged the feng shui master to advise Thaksin when he was prime minister.

- The Nation

BANGKOK, Thailand -- Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is taking his fight to hold onto his job all over the country and beyond -- to the netherworld.

Thaksin, who has previously accused his political foes of using black magic in their efforts to force him from office, received a gift Tuesday -- a magical elephant prod -- to help him ward off bad luck.

"I will use this prod, along with spells and talismans, to control the fierce opponents who are trying to oust me," Thaksin said during a campaign stop in the northeastern Surin province where he rode an elephant.

- Associated Press

goodluckpachyderm-1.jpg

PM rides jumbo 'to fight bad luck'

Embattled caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday resorted to riding an elephant while on the campaign stump in the lower Northeast to ward off bad luck and the ''dangers'' posed to him by demonstrators camping out around Government House.

Taking his political campaign to Surin yesterday, Thaksin rode a 34-year-old male elephant, Phlai Bua Ban, one of the four elephants featured in the epic film "King Naresuan the Great."

Thaksin rode the elephant for 500 metres with former Surin MP and owner of the pachyderm, Suriya Ruampattana, sitting behind him to control it.

An elephant expert said there was a traditional belief that riding an elephant would help ward off bad luck and dangers as the elephant was an auspicious animal.

''Riding on the elephant's neck, not its back, is very risky as the jumbo is not familiar with the smell of the rider. It may resist and cause the rider to fall. But the [caretaker] prime minister can ride it. It's a traditional belief that a powerful man who rides on an elephant and can control it will be shielded from all dangers,'' said the elephant expert and local scholar who is well-versed in superstitious beliefs.

Mr Suriya gave a large hook used by mahouts to control elephants as a souvenir to Thaksin in the belief it would help him in his troubled time, the expert said.

- The Nation

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Nominee or proxy relationships are unconstitutional.

MPs are obliged to represent their electorate, not any particular individual.

Legally they can only take advice from banned TRT execs, not follow their orders.

I hope people can see the difference policies and personalities. TRT executives are not synonimous with TRT policies.

>>>

I don't know which is worse for economy - Thaksin's proxy or Samaks own. Thaksin has at least expertise.

And here i agree with you!!

Samak - a joke but this is where you end up when you overthrow a popular elected leader at gunpoint.

If Thaksin was so bad he would have been removed at the polls where he should be.

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In a certain respect one could say that for the present gov't to implement Toxin's policies is in the best spirit of democracy and legitimate governance since it reinstates the policies of the democratically elected gov't which was destroyed by the military dictatorship and it also is giving the voters what they want and have voted for.

Chownah

Your whole argument is unsound because there was no "elected gov't which was destroyed by the military dictatorship". The election was voided, and thus there was no "elected gov't" immediately prior to the coup.

The word "destroyed" needlessly dramatic... and inaccurate too, don't you think ?

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...this is where you end up when you overthrow a popular elected leader at gunpoint.

He should have been disqualified from office back in 2001, and then in 2006 for electoral fraud, and then again for hiding controlling stake in Shin companies.

People like that must be removed by the courts, or at a gun point, whatever works. They should not be allowed to use popular mandate to subvert the law.

>>>>>

People talk about long term effect of coups on the democracy. That effect is nothing comparing to undermining the rule of law by popular politicians.

You can't have democracy without the law, latest HRW report has for the first time condemned "sham democracies" that justify their legitimacy by holding elections only. I don't attach much value to HRW brand name, but it's good to hear someone talking about it openly, and their critisism was directed to Western governments tacitly condoning the practice.

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Nominee or proxy relationships are unconstitutional.

MPs are obliged to represent their electorate, not any particular individual.

Legally they can only take advice from banned TRT execs, not follow their orders.

I hope people can see the difference policies and personalities. TRT executives are not synonimous with TRT policies.

>>>

I don't know which is worse for economy - Thaksin's proxy or Samaks own. Thaksin has at least expertise.

I believe you are mistaken about the constitutionality of Samak acting on Toxin's advise...it is perfectly constitioinal and legal....enough quibbling about the definition and applicatoin of the terms "nominee" and "proxy".......so far no one in politics is bringing the PPP to task over this so I'm pretty sure it does not apply.

Yes indeed MP's are supposed to represent their constitutents and the PPP's MP's are doing just that by accepting advise from Toxin and instuting his suggested policies....the PPP made it quite obvious that this was their platform and they were elected based on these actions....indeed if the PPP completely ignores Toxin and his policies then thier MP's would be in non-performance of their legitimate task.

Banned TRT executives are in no position to even give orders...they can ONLY make suggestions...there is no issue here except perhaps in your thinking.

Chownah

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Allies Of Ousted Thai PM Thaksin Dominate Final Cabinet List

BANGKOK - Allies of ousted Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra (CW) dominate the Cabinet list which will be submitted Wednesday for royal endorsement, people familiar with the matter said.

The final list names Surapong Suebwonglee (CW), a former Thaksin spokesman and cabinet minister, to the post of Finance Minister as has been widely expected.

Other important economic ministries will be in the hands of leading members of the pro-Thaksin People Power Party, which heads a six-party coalition government after winning the most seats in the Dec. 23 elections.

Poonpirom Liptapanlop (RP), the wife of Suwat Liptapanlop (TRT Banned #22), will head the Energy Ministry. Suwat was a deputy leader of Thaksin's banned Thai Rak Thai party and a deputy prime minister in the Thaksin government.

Mingkwan Saengsewan, a former marketing executive for Toyota in Thailand and the head of PPP's economic policy team, is named as Commerce Minister in the final Cabinet list.

Thaksin's brother-in-law Somchai Wongsawat (RP) is set to become a Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister. Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej (CW), who described himself as a proxy for Thaksin during the election campaign, will be Defense Minister.

Noppadon Pattama, spokesman and legal advisor for Thaksin during his self- imposed exile abroad, will be named Foreign Minister.

- By Bangkok Bureau, Dow Jones Newswires

===============================================

News Legend

CW : Crime-Watch (with ongoing criminal litagation)

RP : Related Proxy (by blood or marriage)

Edited by sriracha john
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