Samak Sundaravej was elected

[chownah]

The photo is interesting....what does it mean. The fact that Samak stood next to someone at some time in the past has really no significance in itself at all. I'm sure that Abhisit has stood next to Toxin....etc. etc....should we make a list of everyone who has at any time stood next to the mentioned personage...and assume some kind of guilt for them too? It would be interesting to know more about this photo. Until there is more information about the photo then it establishes nothing. It is a matter of inuendo (perhaps) that journalists say that "Samak becomes pale when shown his picture taken with Prapass"....it implies some kind of guilt or else why would he turn pale?....the journalists were looking for any sign of guilt on Samak's part so they very well may have interpreted a look of bepuzzlement or innocent surprise as a paling of the face...or maybe they fabricated it entirely as a way to create the inuendo...I really don't know if he paled or not or whether he paled from indegestion or simply poor health and standing for too long on a hot day.....I do know that many journalists are constantly grinding an ax for Samak.....I don't really know for sure if this photo has any meaning or not now because there is no information about why, where, or when it was taken........on the other hand the simple comment has created a "guilty Samak" in the minds of many who read it.

This picture with unknown meaning has stirred the emotions here most definitely.

Chownah

Edited February 24, 2008 by chownah

[Prakanong]

This was predicted long ago that Thaksin would do this. Just a quick look at things, it appears when Thaksin returns the country will be fulling in his control and all opposition that has the ability to stop him will have been neutralized. After that watch how fast things go south.

And before you can ask me, Yes I too have noted the anti junta bunch has fallen deafly silent.

So to be anti Junta means you are automatically pro Samak or Thaksin

You really need to get out more - BTW Capitalland just posted a profit of a Billion USD - any news about their building yet?

I hope you are better qualified in your field than you are in political science but I doubt I would be running to you for any kind of treatment till I saw your medical qualifications.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Prakanong

[Prakanong]

Well according to the book we do not mention Samak went to Singapore to talk to Thanom about coming back.

Thing is though whose envoy was he?

[Abrak]

This was predicted long ago that Thaksin would do this. Just a quick look at things, it appears when Thaksin returns the country will be fulling in his control and all opposition that has the ability to stop him will have been neutralized. After that watch how fast things go south.

And before you can ask me, Yes I too have noted the anti junta bunch has fallen deafly silent.

So to be anti Junta means you are automatically pro Samak or Thaksin

You really need to get out more - BTW Capitalland just posted a profit of a Billion USD - any news about their building yet?

I hope you are better qualified in your field than you are in political science but I doubt I would be running to you for any kind of treatment till I saw your medical qualifications.

Interesting...

The problem with the current mess where we effectively have a government that noone wants, is that the anti-coup brigade (including me) believe this mess is a legacy of the coup while the anti-Thaksin brigade somehow blame it all on Thaksin.

[Prakanong]

This was predicted long ago that Thaksin would do this. Just a quick look at things, it appears when Thaksin returns the country will be fulling in his control and all opposition that has the ability to stop him will have been neutralized. After that watch how fast things go south.

And before you can ask me, Yes I too have noted the anti junta bunch has fallen deafly silent.

So to be anti Junta means you are automatically pro Samak or Thaksin

You really need to get out more - BTW Capitalland just posted a profit of a Billion USD - any news about their building yet?

I hope you are better qualified in your field than you are in political science but I doubt I would be running to you for any kind of treatment till I saw your medical qualifications.

Interesting...

The problem with the current mess where we effectively have a government that noone wants, is that the anti-coup brigade (including me) believe this mess is a legacy of the coup while the anti-Thaksin brigade somehow blame it all on Thaksin.

I do not know about legacy of the coup but without it Thaksin would still be in (or might have been voted out) and still be popular.

With it you have the likes of Samak (only there for his Royal ties) and so many inexperienced and incompetent politicians and technocrats. The best are banned and any technocrat with brains would not join a govt because of the onerous restrictions on joining a private company afterward with the military consitution.

As for no-one wants - have the people changed their minds so quickly?

Even if they have what is the alternative really - the inexperienced Democrats - Abhasit as the Borama of Thai politics?

Meanwhile others in the region get the investment money and are happily growing while Thailand squabbles

What is the solution though - just sit and wait till Samak an co make such a mess even money politics will not get them out of it?

Thaksin could sit and wait the 5 years and then they would be begging him to come back - BUT there is the possible problem of mother nature between then and now which we can not discuss

Edited February 24, 2008 by Prakanong

[Abrak]

I do not know about legacy of the coup but without it Thaksin would still be in (or might have been voted out) and still be popular.

With it you have the likes of Samak (only there for his Royal ties) and so many inexperienced and incompetent politicians and technocrats. The best are banned and any technocrat with brains would not join a govt because of the onerous restrictions on joining a private company afterward with the military consitution.

As for no-one wants - have the people changed their minds so quickly?

Even if they have what is the alternative really - the inexperienced Democrats - Abhasit as the Borama of Thai politics?

Meanwhile others in the region get the investment money and are happily growing while Thailand squabbles

What is the solution though - just sit and wait till Samak an co make such a mess even money politics will not get them out of it?

Thaksin could sit and wait the 5 years and then they would be begging him to come back - BUT there is the possible problem of mother nature between then and now which we can not discuss

I find that not only have foreign investors lost faith in Thailand as a place to invest but Thais have too.

The world has moved on but Thailand has gone backwards politically in the last 15 years.

Thailand is viewed as a great place to holiday but not a serious place to invest.

[Prakanong]

"I find that not only have foreign investors lost faith in Thailand as a place to invest but Thais have too."

And the evidence backs you up!!!

This is the premise of "Thai Capital after the 1997 crisis" edited by Baker and Phongpaichit

That leaves us only with govt spending to stimulate the economy

"Thailand is viewed as a great place to holiday but not a serious place to invest."

Exactly - my taxi drivers in Singapore often say this too telling me use Thailand as a playground (and I do except when on business )

[sriracha john]

This certainly didn't take long... only 2 shows...

Public 'tuning out' on PM Samak's weekly broadcast

BANGKOK - Although much of the public are fascinated with the colourful and combative conversational style of Thailand's new Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, four out of five citizens are tuning out and doing something else when it comes to listening to, or viewing, the premier's weekly broadcast.

Only 20 per cent of all respondents conducted in a recent poll said they listened to Samak's weekly radio and television program.

The survey, conducted by Suan Dusit Poll which queried 1,976 persons in metropolitan Bangkok and upcountry between February 17-23, found that 45 per cent of those queried did not know when the program was aired, some 22 per cent were 'busy', and almost 20 per cent – one in five persons -- said news concerning the prime minister was seen every day.

The remaining respondents, slightly more than 13 per cent, said they simply disliked him and were uninterested.

Samak took office as Thailand's 25th prime minister February 7. His weekly address has been broadcast on state-run radio and television every Sunday since February 10 from 8.30-9.30 am.

Twenty per cent of the sample said they followed the program because they loved his style of talking, especially regarding ongoing affairs in the country.

Thirty per cent of the respondents said they wanted him to speak on Thailand's economic problems, while 12.6 per cent wished to hear his ideas on bringing about peace in the country and almost 12 per cent wanted to know how to control corrupt politicians.

- TNA

=============================================

Hmm... strange there's nothing in that public opinion priority list about controlling drugs.... which is Samak's whole premise for restarting the Killing Fields War On Drugs.

Edited February 24, 2008 by sriracha john

[Prakanong]

"Twenty per cent of the sample said they followed the program because they loved his style of talking, especially regarding ongoing affairs in the country."

Hmm - if that was extrapolated out from the survey it would be a hel_l of a lot of people.

Presenters in most countries with multiple media outlets would love that % of an audience

[Plus]

The problem with the current mess where we effectively have a government that noone wants, is that the anti-coup brigade (including me) believe this mess is a legacy of the coup while the anti-Thaksin brigade somehow blame it all on Thaksin.

Without Thaksin there wouldn't have been a coup in the first place.

PPP has declared a democratic victory over the junta, they can't blame the military for the government that they managed to form after their victory. It's a lame excuse for their own incompetence.

Ugly faces we see in the Cabinet have been there right from the start, campaigning for the PPP, and whose fault is it that PPP doesn't have an economic team?

As for outsiders refusing to join - another lame excuse, I bet Democrats wouldn't have the same problem if they were given a chance to form the government. PPP doesn't have any credibility to attract competent people, it has won in Isan and North, not among "professionals".

I don't know if we would have the same kind of Cabinet if the generals didn't stage the coup and Thaksin stood for the elections in December 2006. The more pressing issue would have been managing confrontation between Thaksin and millions of Thais who opposed him. The junta did it peacefully, without blood.

The alternative, "democratic" way is about to play out if Thaksin returns next week and resets the clock back to 2006. We won't see massive protests for a while, it might take months, but the showdown is inevitable, the two camps can't coexist together. It's far certain than marxist class struggle bringing pitchfork mobs to Bangkok, though we might get to see that, too - to protect Thaksin from middle classes.

>>>

As for Prem being irrelevant - he already is, the problem is that principles he stands for are still dear to millions of Thais. So far no one was able to demonstrate that Prem has anything but the country's best interests at heart. Violence outside Prem's residence doesn't count as an argument.

>>>

I don't know how many people called Democrats "junta boys", there were also many reports linking the army with Pua Paendin, Snoh was always on anti-Thaksin side, Matchima was as anti-Thaksin as possible, and so was Banharn. Their switch to PPP coalition was a real coup against the junta, though after being badly trashed in elections Pua Paendin was certain to fold and the rest just followed.

[John K]

Samak’s program is classified as entertainment I understand.

[John K]

Some people suggest that to be pro junta is to be Anti Samak. A am afraid that is entirely 2 dimensional thinking when the issue is actually 3 dimensional.

[endure]

If there is any more personal bickering in this thread detentions will abound. Stop it.

[Khun Jean]

The photo is interesting....what does it mean. The fact that Samak stood next to someone at some time in the past has really no significance in itself at all. blahblahbla.....

This picture with unknown meaning has stirred the emotions here most definitely.

Chownah

Samak gave meaning to the picture.

"Samak becomes pale when shown his picture taken with Prapass"

[plachon]

I am not sure what to say about the Eucalyptus except it goes without saying there is a cut in it for Samak and probably Thaksin too. As far as Eucalyptus being another crop, I don’t see it as a bad thing as it is used in so many products. It probably will be added to the Fire Trucks, Scanners, Rubber trees, computers list soon.

I understand that Thaksin used to have a rather large share in pulp and paper company Advanced Agro, whose trucks one sees Isaan-wide loading up with eucalyptus logs for the drive to the pulp mills in Nakhon Nayok. The network of AA agents and economic reach around the region rivals that of the defunct, but very much alive in spirit TRT party. Anyone know if the Shins still have their share in AA, or did that go to Temasek? I guess with the rapid announcement to push eucalyptus plantations as a policy, they still very much have an interest in the business, along with numerous other PPP politicians.

I guess one could say is "Vote PPP and get monocrop pulpwood plantations countrywide" as easily as one could say "Plant eucalyptus and line the pockets of Toxon and buddies".

You are completely misinformed.Thaksin never was a significant shareholder in Advance Agro, which incidentally is shortly to be delisted.

"Completely" misinformed? So you don't deny that he was a shareholder, only "not significant"? Like how many shares did he, or his wider family, hold in AA; as you seem to be so well informed YH?

And why is AA being delisted pray tell?

I only used the word "significant" because the SET records do not give details of very tiny shareholdings, so I could not give a categorical undertaking that no shares were owned at all.

I have no idea what the reasons are for delisting.My guess is that the controlling family which owns the great majority of the shares sees the advantages of public ownership outweighed by the restrictions imposed.Nothing unusual in that.

There were incidentally many other errors in your post.For example AA doesn't send logs to be pulped at Nakhon Nayak, having its own facilities.Your linking of the AA network to the TRT party is baldly stated but just doesn't make any sense.The debate on fast growing hardwoods, pros and cons, is a decades old one in Thailand:your summary is not really very lucid.All in all I'm afraid confused and muddled information from you but if you want background on AA check the SET website or talk to any stockbroker, Thai or Farang.It's true AA comes from the Soon Hua Seng conglomerate which was involved in alleged land scandal about 20 years ago but for reasons that have nothing to do with Thaksin.

Apologies for my inaccuracy about their mill location. It's not Nakhon Nayok, but neighbouring Prachinburi province. The scandals of Soon Hua Seng and AA operations are not confined to 20 years ago, so I'm afraid YOU are badly misinformed about that. Just read the following link:

http://chrislang.org/2003/10/01/advance-ag...-mill-thailand/

Likewise, I assume it was just a slip of the keyboard that made you write "hardwoods", when referring to eucalyptus or do you really not know the difference between pulpwood and hardwood species?

I still stick by my comparison between the AA patronage networks and those of TRT in Isaan, until you or anyone else can show they are purely coincidental. It makes a lot of sense if you know anything about the system of politics that prevails in Isaan.

[sriracha john]

Samak says he will personally supervise five megaprojects

PM Samak says he intends to supervise five megaprojects, including a controversial plan to divert water from the Mekong river. Samak said yesterday he would be in charge of the projects _ mass transit schemes for Bangkok, train projects across the country, the water diversion scheme, a project to stimulate the economy, and a medical scheme. Five committees would be set up to oversee the projects, with Samak as Chairman. He said he would inform the permanent secretaries of all ministries of his decision during a meeting today. During his weekly television programme, he told his audience that Army engineers would be assigned to build four-lane roads in the southern border provinces. The private construction firm which won the bidding to build the roads in Yala dared not work there. He had talked to the Army Chief, who agreed to deploy army engineers to build the road in the strife-torn province. Samak backed Science Minister Wuttipong Chaisaeng's proposal to promote the planting of eucalyptus trees in paddy fields. He shrugged off concerns that eucalyptus trees would destroy the soil's fertility and suck up huge amounts of water. He also vowed to go ahead with a plan to revive the war on drugs. He dismissed as groundless accusations that the previous war on drugs, introduced by deposed PM Thaksin, had led to the extra-judicial killings of 2,500 people.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/25Feb2008_news02.php

[gjones]

Samak says he will personally supervise five megaprojects

PM Samak says he intends to supervise five megaprojects, including a controversial plan to divert water from the Mekong river. Samak said yesterday he would be in charge of the projects _ mass transit schemes for Bangkok, train projects across the country, the water diversion scheme, a project to stimulate the economy, and a medical scheme. Five committees would be set up to oversee the projects, with Samak as Chairman. He said he would inform the permanent secretaries of all ministries of his decision during a meeting today. During his weekly television programme, he told his audience that Army engineers would be assigned to build four-lane roads in the southern border provinces. The private construction firm which won the bidding to build the roads in Yala dared not work there. He had talked to the Army Chief, who agreed to deploy army engineers to build the road in the strife-torn province. Samak backed Science Minister Wuttipong Chaisaeng's proposal to promote the planting of eucalyptus trees in paddy fields. He shrugged off concerns that eucalyptus trees would destroy the soil's fertility and suck up huge amounts of water. He also vowed to go ahead with a plan to revive the war on drugs. He dismissed as groundless accusations that the previous war on drugs, introduced by deposed PM Thaksin, had led to the extra-judicial killings of 2,500 people.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/25Feb2008_news02.php

So how much commission will he get to supervise these five mega projects?

[John K]

As I said the more frequent use of Will be seen. Apparently there is not enough smarts to go around to tackle the problems that face the country. This is getting to be so much like the person that lied to get a job and now is discovering he has not a clue what to do and can’t fake it for long. The question remains how long before he is fired.

[sriracha john]

MEGA PROJECTS

Samak takes charge

PM says he does not want delays; 5 panels formed to speed up work

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej yesterday announced he would assume control of the management of the country's mega-infrastructure projects to speed up the work.

Five panels chaired by the PM would be appointed to oversee the management of the mega projects that involve the medical system, the railways, the mass transit systems, the waterworks, and the economic system.

Speaking during his daily television and radio programme "Talking Samak Style", the premier said he would directly take charge of the projects so that ministers who oversee them don't work alone and progress could be speeded up.

Samak will today issue policies for high-ranking officials of all government agencies after the government declared national policies before the House last week.

Samak also defended Science Minister Wuthipong Chaisang over his proposal to get farmers to grow eucalyptus as a way to raise productivity on their farms. He said the new breed of eucalyptus has proven to be helpful in increasing rice farming because its roots can expand into the fields, providing natural fertilisers for the crop.

Democrat Party spokesman Ongart Klampaiboon urged the government to use concrete measures to quickly tackle rising consumer prices.

Samak said in his programme that he would have deputy prime ministers and Commerce Minister Mingkwan Saengsuwan check to see why prices of vegetables have risen by almost 100 per cent. He pointed that the price of pork had risen 20 per cent because of supply shortages. He vowed to tackle the problem fairly.

Responding to complaints over high food prices at Suvarnabhumi Airport, Samak dismissed the charge saying he found prices to be at the same level as those of other international airports.

- The Nation

[Ricardo]

MEGA PROJECTS

Samak takes charge

PM says he does not want delays; 5 panels formed to speed up work

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej yesterday announced he would assume control of the management of the country's mega-infrastructure projects to speed up the work.

Is this a policy-change, from the Thaksin-approved tried-and-tested excuse, of the personal-responsibility being 'to ensure there is no corruption' ?

Five panels chaired by the PM would be appointed to oversee the management of the mega projects that involve the medical system, the railways, the mass transit systems, the waterworks, and the economic system.

Speaking during his daily television and radio programme "Talking Samak Style", the premier said he would directly take charge of the projects so that ministers who oversee them don't work alone and progress could be speeded up.

Surely he meant, so that the ministers who oversee them don't scoop all the brown envelopes, and forget my cut ?

Samak will today issue policies for high-ranking officials of all government agencies after the government declared national policies before the House last week.

Samak also defended Science Minister Wuthipong Chaisang over his proposal to get farmers to grow eucalyptus as a way to raise productivity on their farms. He said the new breed of eucalyptus has proven to be helpful in increasing rice farming because its roots can expand into the fields, providing natural fertilisers for the crop.

Good news, I have just located another potential-source of natural fertiliser, an apparently un-limited supply of pure bull-shit !

Democrat Party spokesman Ongart Klampaiboon urged the government to use concrete measures to quickly tackle rising consumer prices.

Such as increasing the burden of corruption upon the supply-chain, perhaps ? Or instructing all oil-producing-countries, around the world, to cut their prices to Thailand ? How about, by cutting the tax-burden, on any companies owned by Thaksin/TRT/PPP/Samak-supporters, so they can pass-on the cost-savings to consumers ?

Samak said in his programme that he would have deputy prime ministers and Commerce Minister Mingkwan Saengsuwan check to see why prices of vegetables have risen by almost 100 per cent. He pointed that the price of pork had risen 20 per cent because of supply shortages. He vowed to tackle the problem fairly.

Hint ... investigate pork-barrels, not just their contents.

Responding to complaints over high food prices at Suvarnabhumi Airport, Samak dismissed the charge saying he found prices to be at the same level as those of other international airports.

The new Head-Chef pays personally, for any food he might consume, while passing-through Thai & regional airports ? He should ask his boss, to have a word with his Hong-Kong friend , to arrange for a few complimentary-buffets.

The Nation

[chownah]

He said the new breed of eucalyptus has proven to be helpful in increasing rice farming because its roots can expand into the fields, providing natural fertilisers for the crop.

To the best of my knowledge the roots of eucalyptus do not provide fertility...there are trees that do this to some degree but I have never heard it claimed that eucalyptus does this...I think this statement is wrong....unless this new breed is a GMO.

Chownah

[sriracha john]

[marshbags]

MEGA PROJECTS

Samak takes charge

PM says he does not want delays; 5 panels formed to speed up work

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej yesterday announced he would assume control of the management of the country's mega-infrastructure projects to speed up the work.

Is this a policy-change, from the Thaksin-approved tried-and-tested excuse, of the personal-responsibility being 'to ensure there is no corruption' ?

Five panels chaired by the PM would be appointed to oversee the management of the mega projects that involve the medical system, the railways, the mass transit systems, the waterworks, and the economic system.

Speaking during his daily television and radio programme "Talking Samak Style", the premier said he would directly take charge of the projects so that ministers who oversee them don't work alone and progress could be speeded up.

Surely he meant, so that the ministers who oversee them don't scoop all the brown envelopes, and forget my cut ?

Samak will today issue policies for high-ranking officials of all government agencies after the government declared national policies before the House last week.

Samak also defended Science Minister Wuthipong Chaisang over his proposal to get farmers to grow eucalyptus as a way to raise productivity on their farms. He said the new breed of eucalyptus has proven to be helpful in increasing rice farming because its roots can expand into the fields, providing natural fertilisers for the crop.

Good news, I have just located another potential-source of natural fertiliser, an apparently un-limited supply of pure bull-shit !

Democrat Party spokesman Ongart Klampaiboon urged the government to use concrete measures to quickly tackle rising consumer prices.

Such as increasing the burden of corruption upon the supply-chain, perhaps ? Or instructing all oil-producing-countries, around the world, to cut their prices to Thailand ? How about, by cutting the tax-burden, on any companies owned by Thaksin/TRT/PPP/Samak-supporters, so they can pass-on the cost-savings to consumers ?

Samak said in his programme that he would have deputy prime ministers and Commerce Minister Mingkwan Saengsuwan check to see why prices of vegetables have risen by almost 100 per cent. He pointed that the price of pork had risen 20 per cent because of supply shortages. He vowed to tackle the problem fairly.

Hint ... investigate pork-barrels, not just their contents.

Responding to complaints over high food prices at Suvarnabhumi Airport, Samak dismissed the charge saying he found prices to be at the same level as those of other international airports.

The new Head-Chef pays personally, for any food he might consume, while passing-through Thai & regional airports ? He should ask his boss, to have a word with his Hong-Kong friend , to arrange for a few complimentary-buffets.

The Nation

Thai politicians dictionary and double talk.

Mega Projects adj. MEGA CORRUPTION IN AS QUICK A TIME AS IS POSSIBLE !!!!!!!

( BEFORE THE SMELLY BROWN STUFF HITS THE FAN IN THIS CASE AND THE TRAGICAL CONSEQUENCES TAKE PLACE)

Marshbags and :ened.

Edited February 25, 2008 by marshbags

[younghusband]

I am not sure what to say about the Eucalyptus except it goes without saying there is a cut in it for Samak and probably Thaksin too. As far as Eucalyptus being another crop, I don’t see it as a bad thing as it is used in so many products. It probably will be added to the Fire Trucks, Scanners, Rubber trees, computers list soon.

I understand that Thaksin used to have a rather large share in pulp and paper company Advanced Agro, whose trucks one sees Isaan-wide loading up with eucalyptus logs for the drive to the pulp mills in Nakhon Nayok. The network of AA agents and economic reach around the region rivals that of the defunct, but very much alive in spirit TRT party. Anyone know if the Shins still have their share in AA, or did that go to Temasek? I guess with the rapid announcement to push eucalyptus plantations as a policy, they still very much have an interest in the business, along with numerous other PPP politicians.

I guess one could say is "Vote PPP and get monocrop pulpwood plantations countrywide" as easily as one could say "Plant eucalyptus and line the pockets of Toxon and buddies".

You are completely misinformed.Thaksin never was a significant shareholder in Advance Agro, which incidentally is shortly to be delisted.

"Completely" misinformed? So you don't deny that he was a shareholder, only "not significant"? Like how many shares did he, or his wider family, hold in AA; as you seem to be so well informed YH?

And why is AA being delisted pray tell?

I only used the word "significant" because the SET records do not give details of very tiny shareholdings, so I could not give a categorical undertaking that no shares were owned at all.

I have no idea what the reasons are for delisting.My guess is that the controlling family which owns the great majority of the shares sees the advantages of public ownership outweighed by the restrictions imposed.Nothing unusual in that.

There were incidentally many other errors in your post.For example AA doesn't send logs to be pulped at Nakhon Nayak, having its own facilities.Your linking of the AA network to the TRT party is baldly stated but just doesn't make any sense.The debate on fast growing hardwoods, pros and cons, is a decades old one in Thailand:your summary is not really very lucid.All in all I'm afraid confused and muddled information from you but if you want background on AA check the SET website or talk to any stockbroker, Thai or Farang.It's true AA comes from the Soon Hua Seng conglomerate which was involved in alleged land scandal about 20 years ago but for reasons that have nothing to do with Thaksin.

Apologies for my inaccuracy about their mill location. It's not Nakhon Nayok, but neighbouring Prachinburi province. The scandals of Soon Hua Seng and AA operations are not confined to 20 years ago, so I'm afraid YOU are badly misinformed about that. Just read the following link:

http://chrislang.org/2003/10/01/advance-ag...-mill-thailand/

Likewise, I assume it was just a slip of the keyboard that made you write "hardwoods", when referring to eucalyptus or do you really not know the difference between pulpwood and hardwood species?

I still stick by my comparison between the AA patronage networks and those of TRT in Isaan, until you or anyone else can show they are purely coincidental. It makes a lot of sense if you know anything about the system of politics that prevails in Isaan.

Wow hold on.My knowledge of AA is just that of someone involved in portfolio investment in Thailand.I have a similar level of knowledge of most other quoted companies in Thailand.It was you that quite inccurately said Thaksin was a major shareholder, and I pointed out your mistake.As to the link between TRT and AA patronage systems the burden of proof is on you.

I never claimed to be an expert on Advance Agro:I just happened to be aware of the main shareholdings.

[John K]

Marshbags again you have hit the nail on the head. As with Thaksin, projects that never got launched were clean. Only after they figured out how to make money did they launch.

[Plus]

Problem is not so much with corruption, problem is they need to start working now, not go back to planning and replanning stages, rewriting terms of references and organising bids and everything else. There's no time for that. Projects currently in the pipeline have been through all of this already, for four years.

Thai economy needs this investment NOW, not sometime in the future if everything goes right, which it never does. Why is Samak proposing re-routing of the lines? It will automatically slow down implementation by several years, and he is not an expert in this area, just an average guy with an opinion.

[John K]

His cut is small, thats why.

[chownah]

There's no time for that. Projects currently in the pipeline have been through all of this already, for four years

Projects whose plans and specifications were ready four years ago but not implemented need to go through a re-vetting of all documents and a rethink.....the larger the project the more important this becomes. The economy (both local and international) has changed appreciably in the last four years as have many other things so it is standard operating procedure (and in some cases in other countries mandated by law) that if a project is delayed by a significant amount of time that it should go through an examination and reconfirmation of its acceptability. This would take some time for large projects (6 months perhaps) and depending on how complicated the project is and how many difficulties are encountered it can stretch out to quite some length of time until in some instance it is decided that things have changed so much that the best approach is to scrap the old plans and draft new ones.

I am not trying to say that Samak won't stall for some reason...I'm only pointing out that a re-evaluation of delayed projects is pretty much standard for engineered public works projects.

Chownah

P.S. I might add that if a delayed project is not re-evaluated and is implemented straight away then any place in the construction where there is a "changed condition" encountered there will be the need to negotiate a change in the contract as the work contues and these "change work orders" and "contract addeneums" have traditionally been a place where corruption is rampant because these sorts of negotiations tend to occur in construction offices and in pickup trucks where noone but the two conspirators are around so its really easy for them to make sweet deals and plot their tactics.

Chownah

Edited February 25, 2008 by chownah

[Plus]

Thank you very much for your input, you apparently have never heard of Bangkok mass transit lines developments. It's been only about six months since bidding was officially opened. Is it a "significant delay" that warrants reconsidering all the plans from the ground?

[chownah]

Thank you very much for your input, you apparently have never heard of Bangkok mass transit lines developments. It's been only about six months since bidding was officially opened. Is it a "significant delay" that warrants reconsidering all the plans from the ground?

I was replying to your comment which is, "There's no time for that. Projects currently in the pipeline have been through all of this already, for four years." I interpreted this to mean that there are projects that had already been completley developed and were waiting for four years.

In this case if the plan was to have the bidding open for six months then there is no need for a review of the project....however if the bidding was expected to last only three months and the fact that a bid hasn't been awarded in over twice the expected time (for instance) then this is usually expected that there is some problem or irregularity somewhere which is causing the unexpected result (or non-result in this case) so typically where I administered projects (in the US) if the bid can not be awarded within the predetermined time period (time period set by size, complexity, and character of project) then the offer to bid is automatically recalled and a review process automaticaly starts in order to see what the problem is.....here the problem might be some political problem or some corruption problem (or a problem with a lack of corruption)...or who knows what?...I don't know...in fact I don't even know if the bidding has gone on beyond its expected time frame.

I'm not trying to take sides here....I'm trying to give people an idea about why projects should be delayed in some cases....I'm trying to help people understand better how administering large gov't projects actually works.....for all I know Samak is the devil himself and is plotting the doom of civilization as we know it....or he is Gabriel's right hand man at the pearly gates handing out get out of he77 free cards....I don't know ....my post has nothing to do with politics...it is a non issue politically...this is how administering large gov't projects works in my experience.

Thankyou,

Chownah

Edited February 25, 2008 by chownah