Isn't This Called Discrimination

[basjke]

This is meant as an open letter to Mr Tony,who is assumed to be a member of this forum,but I invite everyone to post their opinion.

I am a member of Tony's gym for several years but my membership is due to renewal.As I see daily the advertisements through pickup's and billboards for a lifetime membership at 14.999 baht I decided to take one.So up I went to Tony's fitness,the one with the pool,with my 14.999 baht and applied for a lifetime membership.

The staff overthere told me that this price only was for thai people and that the foreigner price was 19.999 baht.I told them that I lived in Thailand for over 10 years,had a company and paid taxes and carried a thai driver licence so in my opinion was entitled to the thai price.Also told them that if I showed my thai driver licence at the entrance of national parks or at underwater world I would presumably be charged the thai price.They went up to the manager,who is Mr Tony's brother,with my reply but returned with the message that they could not serve me at that price.

Later on I had the opportunity to talk with Tony's brother personally and asked him why Tony's had this policy.He told me that this was called marketing.I never knew that discrimination was a form of marketing and told him that if someone would do this in the western world they would face legal issues at least.Again he told me that this was their marketing strategy and that less then 20 % of their customers were thai.

All of Mr Tony's businesses are aimed at foreigners so doesn't he forget that it is us who made him to what he is today?Why bite the hand that feeds you?I also know that Mr Tony and many members of his family lived in the US and Europe for a considerable time so I wonder if they ever were threated with the same attitude when abroad.

I sincerely hope this topic is read by Mr Tony or is forwarded to him and that he will personaly respond at it on this open forum.In the mean time please post your opinions.

[sweetchariot]

Ummmm.....you've been here for over 10 years, are fully aware of the dual pricing that happens in all walks of life, but complain about Tony's employing the same.

Am I missing the point?

[Mobi]

Are you still using his gym, or have you taken your business elsewhere?

[jbaldwin]

Of course this is discrimination and in my view entirely reasonable business practice.

I am very happy that I do not live in the sort of policially correct society that would employ army of bureaucrats to prevent private companies setting up whatever pricing policy they beleive is appropriate for their business.

This is Thailand. If you do not like their policy go somewhere else.

[dee123]

thers one way to sort this out....FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

[basjke]

Are you still using his gym, or have you taken your business elsewhere?

At the time I am still using the gym because my previous membership not finished and the equipment is ok.

As to sweetchariot,yes you miss the point.I live here over 10 years and are fully aware of the dual pricing.I can understand taht a national park which is created with the money of the thai's and aimed at the thai majority has this policy.You will see in europe and probably the whole western world that national parks are sometimes free for citizens but have a small entrance fee for foreigners.A business which is aimed at foreigners and probably created with the profit made from foreigners previously,remember how tony started in that disco 1 shophouse big,I can not understand to have that policy.

To Jbaldwin : if you find this reasonable business practice you admit that in your home country they used the same practices?I consider you are not asian.

Edited March 5, 2008 by basjke

[Jingthing]

I think they have a legal right in Thailand to price this way. I also applaud that you called this policy to our attention. Of course it is discriminatory, and we all have the choice whether to use this business, or not.

[dee123]

....how many more years is Thailand gonna be claiming poverty.?.......with all the skyscrapers booming their armed forces buying latest.......someoneone giv us a rough idea eh!!....10 ....20 years perhaps?.....or ain't it really the fact that the rich thais do not care a jot about wealth distribution and state run tv constantly gives out the same crap 50 years on....!which they borrowed from El Douce

Edited March 5, 2008 by dee123

[jonniebkk]

I fall down with Tony on this one...not just Tony but any private business owner. They set-up and business, take the financial risk, and have the right to run/management it in any way they wish. Pricing their goods/services is certainly one of these business decisions they should be free to make without interference from others. If you don't like a business's policies, you are free to take your self and your money somewhere else.

In addition, in a legal sense it is not discrimination for many reasons. To begin with, Thailand, in general, does not have anti-discrimination laws that are found in most Western countries. The Kingdom has not "advanced" enough to the point where such laws have been enacted. Also, in the West, most anti-discrimination laws are limited to the areas of housing, employment, and public accommodation AND are based on some immutable characteristic of a person, i.e., their sex, race, and sometimes sexual orientation. Even in the West, it is legal to discriminate against someone or class of people if it is not related to one of the aforementioned categories or is based on some non-protected characteristic of the person.

Therefore, even in the West, differential pricing is allowed for many categories of people and charging different prices for different nationalities or citizenships would most likely be completely legal.

[Jingthing]

Whatever you choose to call it, it will be seen by some people as offensive, and given that it is not the only gym in town, I can't see the point of getting overly worked up about it.

[dee123]

.....i've cooled down now iv'had my rant....thanks guys!! .....p.s. POWER TO THE PEOPLE

Edited March 5, 2008 by dee123

[johniescfc]

We have to stamp out this stupid mentality about one rule for thai and one for farang.

Some wonderful things about thailand that we all should embrace( like tea money) hehehehehe.

Still betetr than farang land unless anybody got a different utopia for me.

[PattayaParent]

In addition, in a legal sense it is not discrimination for many reasons......... in the West, most anti-discrimination laws are limited to the areas of housing, employment, and public accommodation AND are based on some immutable characteristic of a person, i.e., their sex, race, and sometimes sexual orientation.

Therefore, even in the West, differential pricing is allowed for many categories of people and charging different prices for different nationalities or citizenships would most likely be completely legal.

Funny but in the west I've never been asked my nationality or citizenship whenever I've needed a service of either a government body or a private company? What country do you come from that does?

So you think that if the OP or even yourself went to Tony's Gym and told them you are a Thai they would believe you? How would they know you weren't? Could it possibly be the colour of your skin? Isn't that then racial discrimination?

Dee123 there's an ad at the top of this page for a gym, suggest you try there instead of renewing at ripoffs place.

I'm surprised Jingthing is so cool about it after his taxi campaign. Surely this merits a boycott campaign too?

[Jingthing]

I'm surprised Jingthing is so cool about it after his taxi campaign. Surely this merits a boycott campaign too?

Don't be surprised.

Public transport is a PUBLIC utility, a monopoly. There is no free and open competition.

There are many gyms, many restaurants, etc, we can vote with our feet.

The mafia transport system here we are stuck with.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Jingthing

[mrbojangles]

Don't renew your membership and keep telling everyone about the dual pricing, including here on ThaiVisa. It never ceases to amaze me why people still buy the product when they know they are being ripped off (i'm not including national parks etc in this but purely businesses). It's all about supply and demand, no customers = lower the price, abundance of customers = keep price up (especially for farang).

A bar near me started having ladies nights once a week. Ladies get in for free and get half price drinks, most of the guys where seriously p1ssed off about this and the majority decided to boycott it. Ladies night lasted about 2 months because the numbers attending where so low. Quite a few women at first but not many men and then leass and less women. They then decided to have happy hours instead.

Result = every body happy

[barky]

Yes it is discrimination in any language whether you have been here for 5 minutes or 50 years. Yes in some countries outside of Thailand there is some discrimination. Generally, the more backward, uneducated, less westernised a country is, the more discrimination you are likely to find.

If you were to go to Australia, for example, it is a virtual social taboo these days and has been for some considerable time. However, we are in Thailand, we are aliens, it is a national sport to rip-off westeners. You really only have one weapon......your money! Take your money, and as many friends as you can with you elsewhere. Don't use threats. Don't look back. Just move on immediately. You will feel better for it.

[Jareddiving]

Try to get a lifetime membership for less then 20.000 Baht in another gym..

Good luck

[Mobi]

Yes it is discrimination in any language whether you have been here for 5 minutes or 50 years. Yes in some countries outside of Thailand there is some discrimination. Generally, the more backward, uneducated, less westernised a country is, the more discrimination you are likely to find.

If you were to go to Australia, for example, it is a virtual social taboo these days and has been for some considerable time. However, we are in Thailand, we are aliens, it is a national sport to rip-off westeners. You really only have one weapon......your money! Take your money, and as many friends as you can with you elsewhere. Don't use threats. Don't look back. Just move on immediately. You will feel better for it.

Good Post.

Many years ago I was in Pattaya with my ex wife and young daughter, who holds joint Thai/UK citizenship, and we went to Mini Siam. They charged the Thai price for the wife and the farang price for me and our daughter.

My wife was incensed and insisted that the daughter should pay the Thai price as she was Thai. They didn't believe her and wouldn't budge. Eventually my wife insisted on calling the manger who asked my wife to prove my daughter was Thai. We had no documents with us, but my wife told our daughter to speak to them in Thai - even though she couldn't!! (And she didn't - poor thing)

So we walked away, and have never been back.

TIT

[onzestan]

Therefore, even in the West, differential pricing is allowed for many categories of people and charging different prices for different nationalities or citizenships would most likely be completely legal.

Except for the fact that in the EEC, if you publish a rate for any product or service you are obliged by law to deliver at that price.

What Tony is doing is misleading at the least. I agree that business-holders have the right to decide how they run their business but misleading is misleading. If he ads that the price is for Thais only on his billboards I would have no problem with that (even in small print).

cheers

onzestan

Edited March 5, 2008 by onzestan

[Naam]

It's wrong.

why?

[koheesti]

I can understand taht a national park which is created with the money of the thai's and aimed at the thai majority has this policy.You will see in europe and probably the whole western world that national parks are sometimes free for citizens but have a small entrance fee for foreigners.

To Jbaldwin : if you find this reasonable business practice you admit that in your home country they used the same practices?I consider you are not asian.

Disneyworld in Orlando, Florida has a cheaper ticket price for Florida residents. At least it did when I last lived there in 1994.

[BangnaBound]

Therefore, even in the West, differential pricing is allowed for many categories of people and charging different prices for different nationalities or citizenships would most likely be completely legal.

Except for the fact that in the EEC, if you publish a rate for any product or service you are obliged by law to deliver at that price.

What Tony is doing is misleading at the least. I agree that business-holders have the right to decide how they run their business but misleading is misleading. If he ads that the price is for Thais only on his billboards I would have no problem with that (even in small print).

cheers

onzestan

I agree with this take. Gym pricing is shady at best, they can charge a different price to everyone (like California Wow). I think the real issue is misleading advertising, was the add for the 14,999 bht membership in English or in Thai?

I can understand them having 2 prices, but if they are advertising it in English, then tell foreigners that come in “that’s the Thai price”, that’s just the old bait and switch. Generally a bad marketing strategy, especially with internet forums.

[Naam]

I can understand taht a national park which is created with the money of the thai's and aimed at the thai majority has this policy.You will see in europe and probably the whole western world that national parks are sometimes free for citizens but have a small entrance fee for foreigners.

To Jbaldwin : if you find this reasonable business practice you admit that in your home country they used the same practices?I consider you are not asian.

Disneyworld in Orlando, Florida has a cheaper ticket price for Florida residents. At least it did when I last lived there in 1994.

Florida had cheaper prices for a zillion things (even restaurants and shops) when you could show a FL driver's license. i lived in Florida from 1989 till 2004. the bla-bla of "farang discrimination in Thailand" is getting extremely boring.

having said so i admit that i do not condone marketing with misleading information as in the case of Tony's gym. if it is true that the price is advertised in english but applies to Thais only then i call it bullshitting

[MisterFingers]

I for one, agree with the price difference.

It's a way of getting Thai women to exercise there.

And we'd pay the same price with or without the difference.

I couldn't imagine if it was only farang men, which is what it would be without the price difference.

Then I wouldn't want to go there.

Part of my enjoyment is seeing the beautiful Thai women in there.

And the Thai men don't exercise there even with the price difference.

In the West, they have something called "Ladies' Night" at bars where every woman drinks for free.

This accomplishes the same goal.

It's so us men have something to look at besides one another's disgustingly ugly mugs.

I don't want to look at only you guys.

I can't believe you guys want to kick all those beautiful women out of the gym.

Edited March 5, 2008 by MisterFingers

[ZZZ]

Tony's gym is clearly created for foreigners, as he said only 20% of the members are Thai.

Therefore the price charged for foreigners is the regular price but he do give a discount to Thais, I have no problems with that.

If there was no discount for Thai people they may not join and the price for foreigners would then have to be increased

[mrbojangles]

Tony's gym is clearly created for foreigners, as he said only 20% of the members are Thai.

Therefore the price charged for foreigners is the regular price but he do give a discount to Thais, I have no problems with that.

If there was no discount for Thai people they may not join and the price for foreigners would then have to be increased

If that's the case ZZZ. Tony advertises in English (mainly) so it should be advertised at 20,000baht. They could also put something in Thai saying that they would get discount. As his advertising currently stands, this is purely misleading.

[TheWalkingMan]

Why is it that many times when double pricing is mentioned someone pulls out something about a state in the USA. Usually these things are pulled out without explaining the details so the mind can wander.

For those who do not know -

There is double pricing in some parts of the USA. Typically, if you have a driver's license (or some sort of state ID card) from the state (showing but not proving residency) then you get the discounted price. Simple, easy and clear. If you do not have that, then you pay a higher price.

The issue with some things in Thailand is that some places say... ok, you have a work permit and/or a driver's license so you get the lower price... while other places just say.... hello Mr/Ms Falang, please pay the higher price and I do not care that you pay taxes here, have a Thai wife and a gaggle of kids. You are not Thai so fork over the cash or hit the road.

Can people see the difference in how residents in these example are treated? So the next time you want to wave the yankee flag in regards to double pricing, please state something to the effect "Yes, in some areas of the USA there is double pricing for people who cannot prove/show that they are residents. Residency is typically shown by displaying your driver's license. Show your license and get the discount."

Easy as falling off a log.

Oh and if Tony's advert is in English for a price and when you get there and they give you that song & dance about falangs paying more then it is the old "bait & switch." Even the proponents of double pricing here on thaivisa should be able to admit to that. If they cannot, then they have crossed over into the Darkside.

TheWalkingMan

[Jareddiving]

Say you will use the lifetime membership for 5 Years..

20000Baht/ 5= 4000 Baht a year.

Payed more then that back in Europe for only 3 months.

[basjke]

Say you will use the lifetime membership for 5 Years..

20000Baht/ 5= 4000 Baht a year.

Payed more then that back in Europe for only 3 months.

Did I mention earlier that the the price is too high?No I didn't.The issue is that there are 2 price standards.

And if you want to calculate,who guarantees that it stays open for the next 5 years?

Another famous marketing stunt from him reads,5999 baht for 1 year membership in big letters.And then in small print(but you have to apply for 2 years).At least misleading again.

[basjke]

I fall down with Tony on this one...not just Tony but any private business owner. They set-up and business, take the financial risk, and have the right to run/management it in any way they wish. Pricing their goods/services is certainly one of these business decisions they should be free to make without interference from others. If you don't like a business's policies, you are free to take your self and your money somewhere else.

In addition, in a legal sense it is not discrimination for many reasons. To begin with, Thailand, in general, does not have anti-discrimination laws that are found in most Western countries. The Kingdom has not "advanced" enough to the point where such laws have been enacted. Also, in the West, most anti-discrimination laws are limited to the areas of housing, employment, and public accommodation AND are based on some immutable characteristic of a person, i.e., their sex, race, and sometimes sexual orientation. Even in the West, it is legal to discriminate against someone or class of people if it is not related to one of the aforementioned categories or is based on some non-protected characteristic of the person.

Therefore, even in the West, differential pricing is allowed for many categories of people and charging different prices for different nationalities or citizenships would most likely be completely legal.

Are youn sure you didn't make a typing error.Are you realy talking about the west or should we read West-India or something?