Water Pressure Low In House Off Of 2000 Liter Tank

[Beardog]

I put in a 305 watt Mitsubishi pump that is a behemoth of a pump. It waters a 4 & 1/2 rai area using zone irrigation.

Recently finished our small baan & added a 2000 liter tank & re hooked the house directly from the tank & used one of the legs to fill from the well. It fills fine & quick, but probably only 10-15 psi at the shower sink bathroom sink, toilet & sprayer.

When I hooked it back to the pump no problem. Since the house is small All pipes are off of one mainline.

I figure only 2 choices- Raise the tank or add 1 more inline pump directly from the tank to the house.

If I raise the tank 10' or 3 & 1/3 meters would that be sufficient to get the flow to 35-40 psi at the taps.I don't need water flaying pressure, but a super trickle isn't cutting it.

Choice 2 is a 200 watt pump to take the tank into the house. What do you think my best option would be, the pump is about 3,000 baht Lucky brand(never heard of em) With a 3 year warranty. I am not sure what the cost to have a small metal tower built would be. What do you think would be the best bet? Both are easy to put in.

Thanks Barry

[Thumchok]

I put in a 305 watt Mitsubishi pump that is a behemoth of a pump. It waters a 4 & 1/2 rai area using zone irrigation.

Recently finished our small baan & added a 2000 liter tank & re hooked the house directly from the tank & used one of the legs to fill from the well. It fills fine & quick, but probably only 10-15 psi at the shower sink bathroom sink, toilet & sprayer.

When I hooked it back to the pump no problem. Since the house is small All pipes are off of one mainline.

I figure only 2 choices- Raise the tank or add 1 more inline pump directly from the tank to the house.

If I raise the tank 10' or 3 & 1/3 meters would that be sufficient to get the flow to 35-40 psi at the taps.I don't need water flaying pressure, but a super trickle isn't cutting it.

Choice 2 is a 200 watt pump to take the tank into the house. What do you think my best option would be, the pump is about 3,000 baht Lucky brand(never heard of em) With a 3 year warranty. I am not sure what the cost to have a small metal tower built would be. What do you think would be the best bet? Both are easy to put in.

Thanks Barry

Use a pump .

Raising the tank will up the psi only by .4316psi/ft .

[Crossy]

Go for the pump, easy fix.

To support a 2000 Litre tank isn't a 'small' tower, the water alone weighs two tons!

[Beardog]

Thanks guys,

I made it easy to wire & plumb in the extra tank. I remember Naam saying he uses multiple pumps- so I set it up for a quick fit.

I had a feeling the pump was the best way to go, but wasn't sure how effective the gravity feed would work. & it is a LOT OF WEIGHT. I would hate to have my dog under it if it collapsed anyway!

Thanks again.....Looks like a no brainer.

[Naam]

Thanks guys,

I made it easy to wire & plumb in the extra tank. I remember Naam saying he uses multiple pumps- so I set it up for a quick fit.

I had a feeling the pump was the best way to go, but wasn't sure how effective the gravity feed would work. & it is a LOT OF WEIGHT. I would hate to have my dog under it if it collapsed anyway!

Thanks again.....Looks like a no brainer.

you remember well Beardog but my two pumps are primarily not meant to increase water pressure or flow but to have a back-up in case one pump fails. of course the second pump helps a lot if more than two people have a shower and perhaps the washing machine draws water at the same time. by the way, my pumps are Hitachi, each 800 watts.

[Beardog]

Thanks guys,

I made it easy to wire & plumb in the extra tank. I remember Naam saying he uses multiple pumps- so I set it up for a quick fit.

I had a feeling the pump was the best way to go, but wasn't sure how effective the gravity feed would work. & it is a LOT OF WEIGHT. I would hate to have my dog under it if it collapsed anyway!

Thanks again.....Looks like a no brainer.

you remember well Beardog but my two pumps are primarily not meant to increase water pressure or flow but to have a back-up in case one pump fails. of course the second pump helps a lot if more than two people have a shower and perhaps the washing machine draws water at the same time. by the way, my pumps are Hitachi, each 800 watts.

Oooh that is a brass balls system for sure. The only reason I thought a 200 watt is ; the run is only 14 meters to the inlet in the house & another 2 meters to the hose bib & the last bib is another 8 meters (which we are not using due to setting the irrigation zones properly). Even the water tank is actually used as a backup , but I want to keep it from sitting & stagnating for 5-6 months in between rainy & no rain season. If we build our real bungalow within the next to 2 years (as the first project I am still re- doing the last contractors mistakes)I will step up to a 300-500 Mitsubishi. They came out with a cool 500 watt that touts 40% energy savings.i am not sure what thet is 40 baht a month probably. The 4 &1/2 Rai eat up the power not the house, I'm sure.

Still debating going with a name brand as I never heard of a lucky brand-even though home pro says it has a fully returnable 3 year warranty.(most likely for a new one{dealt with them a lot already} It looks similar to the Hitachi line .

Have a great weekend...........

Barry

[Beardog]

I got a new 200 watt Mitsubishi pressure stable & can handle a hot water unit if we decide to put one in .

It was the easiest way to go by far & was easy to install. I thought just in case when I made the concrete pad - to make it larger in case I needed to add a pump. And I had a dummy set of pipes to fir in the pump if I needed it. The only work I needed to do was draw a line through to the breaker for power -connect the grounding rod & add a hose bib.

Thanks for the killer replies. My pressure is great now, at least 45-50 psi. SWEET!!!!

[jayenram]

I put in a 305 watt Mitsubishi pump that is a behemoth of a It fills fine & quick, but probably only 10-15 psi at the shower sink bathroom sink, toilet & sprayer.

Use a pump .

Raising the tank will up the psi only by .4316psi/ft .

If I remember correctly (which I rarely do), 15 psig is an acceptable water pressure for the domestic water supply in the UK. Also, I'm not convinced the normal plastic pipes and fittings here in Thailand would handle double that. And as Thumchok points out, you'll need to raise the tank a further 10 metres to achieve an additional 15 psi.

[PhilHarries]

As jayeram says 50 psi is a lot for plastic piping. Most likely okay when new but as it ages it gets brittle and a little water hammer or surge can casue cracks and breaks.

Also 50 psi is verging on the dangerous, I'd be careful using them bum squirt guns there's a lot of delicate tissue up the windward passage.

[lopburi3]

I am running 60psi+ and have been for several years with Thai plastic pipe (which I believe is rated 100psi). I can not imagine 15psi being an acceptable city standard anywhere - that is less than normal well pressure.

[lopburi3]

As jayeram says 50 psi is a lot for plastic piping. Most likely okay when new but as it ages it gets brittle and a little water hammer or surge can casue cracks and breaks.

Also 50 psi is verging on the dangerous, I'd be careful using them bum squirt guns there's a lot of delicate tissue up the windward passage.

50psi and higher are normal city water pressures in US. As for the spray that is why you have flow control taps on them. I have 60psi and nobody is getting any road rash from it.

[PhilHarries]

I am running 60psi+ and have been for several years with Thai plastic pipe (which I believe is rated 100psi). I can not imagine 15psi being an acceptable city standard anywhere - that is less than normal well pressure.

Domestic plumbing in the UK uses gravity feed from a break tank in the roof space. Therefore in the bathroom you have about 10 feet of static head which is about 4 psi and that is adequate. This is standard in the UK as the only point that takes water direct from the mains is the cold tap in the kitchen.

[lopburi3]

Strange country.

Perhaps that explains the need for tubs rather than showers?

[manjara]

We got the local Thai plumbers to install our system as I'm not much of a plumber myself.

I explained what we needed, which is pretty similar to what's been described here. 2000 liter water tank, 2 pumps, 1 to the tank and one from it.

There has been nothing but trouble since we got it. The water pressure in the house upstairs varies from 'blow your a*** off' to a vague trickle (with no discernable reason). The rear of the house is like a piece of modern art, with all the blue piping that envelopes the place, half of it just goes nowhere.

They discarded all the traps for the sinks and baths that we bought and plumbed them straight into the tank. They set the bath in concrete??!!! Our kitchen 'units' they also decided to do in concrete, about a metre deep and they set the taps before tiling the top of the concrete so now there's some great traps for water to collect in.

Turned out they weren't much like plumbers either.

I've given up now, I just let them get on with it in their own way, so long as they only charge me the local price

[lopburi3]

The high/low pressure can probably be adjusted at the pump to help even out the water pressure. Blue pipes can be (and should be to help protect from UV) painted easily. The missing trap for bath is a problem if covered over unless they run to a drain system and you can trap the drain line itself - keep covered when not draining for now. The sinks should be easy to fix. They sell flex plastic that will work well. As for the holes around taps a little white cement (tile gout - available in a number of colors) should help that problem.

[BigSnake]

Buy a PUMP, lotus, big c, Markro

[Beardog]

I feel for you Manjara,

Before I built I consulted with Naam, Chownah ,Maizefarmer , Crossy ,Pondlife, Slapout, Gary A & Rimmer( (not by PM but on the forums) & a whole bunch of other posters before I built. I did all the plumbing as I did irrigation & some plumbing in my construction career. I knew the only way to get it right was to do it myself & make sure they didn't screw up my work. I listened to most of the gripes about the cementing over the access pipes(along with a hideous rental done similar to yours, & put 4" pipes down & laid the 1/2 inch -1inch pipes inside so they can all be broken off or cut & replaced by pulling them through the 4" pipe housings. The septic system is overbuilt & the design is duplicated in 4 houses here being built (except they used their brain & got a cat to claw out the hole & drainage field& then put the pipes in & bury them with gravel) I was a fool & thought no problem I can dig 7 meters long x 1 meter wide x 1meter deep .(the last 2 meters I let a Thai man do for 250 baht ,I wish I met him before! the contractor cut the 1 & 2/3 meter hole by 100 cm(thank God )The main Tank I got a lot of the math from Chownah & Maizefarmer on the pinned section of the farming forum. Dr. Naam & Rimmer helped a lot with the common sense & excellent ways to make the job flow smoothly & easy to do.

Although I don't have a 2 story it would work, if not a smaller 3rd pump to boost the pressure up to floor 2.

If you have a problem with too much or intermittent pressure, you can get a valve to cut down or stabilize the pressure.

Sorry any of this info came after you built the house as it is a bitch to redo after the mistakes are done.

Next time we add on to this house, I will retain 2 good craftsman & add the rooms- all except the Electrical as I found a good sparky already.

I hope you can sort your mess out! I am just refinishing the rendering roof painting sheet rock tiles & other assorted items the butchers got to-----& don't ever hire a smithy(iron worker) to do your house! (Or at least check to see if he has squares & levels & knows how to use them

PS: If you use the top grade of PVC it will handle 50 PSI no problem . My house was pressurized at 75 PSI to make sure it wouldn't leak (overkill) I still would have used Galvanized pipes & sweated copper fittings , but it is far easier to do as the Romans do when your in Rome. This is an attachment of the way I put in the U-Trap if they didn't put it in cement(this was fully enclosed in a 5" pipe) you can put 4 90 degree pipes together to make the trap or get a prebuilt at Home Pro or the like & add it into the existing drain pipe leading to the septic system. as Lopburi said the sinks should be easy refit. but the U-Trap is a must to keep out the stinkies from coming back into your house. Hopefully your contractor put in a vent pipe for you! good Luck

Beardog

Edited March 22, 2008 by Beardog

[manjara]

The high/low pressure can probably be adjusted at the pump to help even out the water pressure. Blue pipes can be (and should be to help protect from UV) painted easily. The missing trap for bath is a problem if covered over unless they run to a drain system and you can trap the drain line itself - keep covered when not draining for now. The sinks should be easy to fix. They sell flex plastic that will work well. As for the holes around taps a little white cement (tile gout - available in a number of colors) should help that problem.

Thanks for the advice, I have done most of what you suggest, although the tile grout doesn't solve the problem completely as I can't bring it up to the level of the tiles without covering part of the tap itself.

Looking at Bear's pic I may try and trap the pipe itself, though the pipe currently goes pretty much straight down to the septic tank.

My main problem was getting the work done up north but being in Bangkok. It doesn't matter how much they nod and say they understand, left to their own devices, they will F*** it up!

We did adjust the pressure at the pump, but that only seemed to help some of the 'outlets'. I still have one sink and one shower that barely have a trickle (out of 3 sinks and 3 showers)

[jayenram]

I am running 60psi+ and have been for several years with Thai plastic pipe (which I believe is rated 100psi). I can not imagine 15psi being an acceptable city standard anywhere - that is less than normal well pressure.

Domestic plumbing in the UK uses gravity feed from a break tank in the roof space. Therefore in the bathroom you have about 10 feet of static head which is about 4 psi and that is adequate. This is standard in the UK as the only point that takes water direct from the mains is the cold tap in the kitchen.

When I was in the UK (many years ago, admittedly) we had the following:

Cold water cistern in the loft to provide cold water to all but the kitchen cold tap and provide water for the hot water system (tank) located on upstairs floor.

I can't remember the exact heights but would guess the ground and first floor ceiling heights would be no more than 10 foot (3.00 m) each. Given a cold water cistern of 3 foot (1.00m) deep this would provide water to the first floor outlets at around 4 psig (as PhilHarries states) and around 8 psig to the ground floor outlets (except for the kitchen cold tap). I'm still convinced that the utility services would only guarantee a minimum water pressure of 15 psig at the kitchen cold tap (which would be around 7 psig at the cold water cistern (in my case)).

Simplified, summat like the drawing below:

[Naam]

Before I built I consulted with Naam, Chownah ,Maizefarmer , Crossy ,Pondlife, Slapout, Gary A & Rimmer( (not by PM but on the forums) & a whole bunch of other posters before I built. I did all the plumbing as I did irrigation & some plumbing in my construction career. I knew the only way to get it right was to do it myself & make sure they didn't screw up my work.

but next time you build Beardog please use a 45º and not a 90º connection when you connect gray water to toilet sewage

[lopburi3]

Thanks for the advice, I have done most of what you suggest, although the tile grout doesn't solve the problem completely as I can't bring it up to the level of the tiles without covering part of the tap itself.

Does it matter if the base of the tap is covered? If you ever need to remove it the gout will break apart easily enough. To me this would look better than the holes (which I imagine are not perfect circles). If you can match the tile color it will help to hide the quality workmanship.

If you can access gray water to route someplace other than the septic tank I would do so. Here in Bangkok most homes only have toilets into septic tank and gray water goes directly into drainage (city drains in this case). Septic tanks seem to work much better without detergents and such.

[Beardog]

Before I built I consulted with Naam, Chownah ,Maizefarmer , Crossy ,Pondlife, Slapout, Gary A & Rimmer( (not by PM but on the forums) & a whole bunch of other posters before I built. I did all the plumbing as I did irrigation & some plumbing in my construction career. I knew the only way to get it right was to do it myself & make sure they didn't screw up my work.

but next time you build Beardog please use a 45º and not a 90º connection when you connect gray water to toilet sewage

What are the advantages to using 45 degrees oppose to 90's. I can do on the next phase of construction. The 90's cut the smells out , but if there is a more efficient way to go- you would know it! And I would love to learn a new tidbit...Thanks

[xerostar]

What are the advantages to using 45 degrees oppose to 90's. I can do on the next phase of construction. The 90's cut the smells out , but if there is a more efficient way to go- you would know it! And I would love to learn a new tidbit...Thanks

The standard junction connection for all sewer pipe is a 45 degree or similar.

i.e. a "Y" shape instead of a "T" shape.

It helps the waste to flow better with less likelihood of blockages forming.

Some of the grey water waste junctions are more like 85 degrees but the internal

part of the junction is rounded towards the exit to improve the flow.

You can often find a junction that has an inspection opening on it (with a screw cap)

just in case you need to clear a blockage in the junction.

i.e. when someone has tried to flush the Pampers.

[Beardog]

What are the advantages to using 45 degrees oppose to 90's. I can do on the next phase of construction. The 90's cut the smells out , but if there is a more efficient way to go- you would know it! And I would love to learn a new tidbit...Thanks

The standard junction connection for all sewer pipe is a 45 degree or similar.

i.e. a "Y" shape instead of a "T" shape.

It helps the waste to flow better with less likelihood of blockages forming.

Some of the grey water waste junctions are more like 85 degrees but the internal

part of the junction is rounded towards the exit to improve the flow.

You can often find a junction that has an inspection opening on it (with a screw cap)

just in case you need to clear a blockage in the junction.

i.e. when someone has tried to flush the Pampers.

I got the Y at the end of the run in case it backs up.