The Restaurants And Stores Are Always Packed

[RueFang]

If it costs 400 baht for a doctors visit, how is anyone here on a salary (besides Expat salaries) getting by? If the doctors are making less than 80-100K a month, then who are all these people packing the stores every weekend?

I thought it cost 30 baht for a doctor's visit? Or 200 at a clinic.

I think it's the same in any country, rich or poor. People spend beyond their means and as you say, perhaps it's all different people going for their monthly meal out.

[pumpuiman]

I know a Thai guy, who is on 30k Baht a month and has just bought a brand new Mercedes on which he pays 27K Baht a month, I asked him how he survives on 3k bht diposable income per month and he says its enough as he is Thai. He pays 1,500bht p/m for what can only be described as a concrete shed with a corrogated roof. It's all to do with face again, he loves the way the Police salute him when he drives past.

So that leaves him 50 baht per day for fuel and food.......no problem.

[realmadrid25]

I've seen a lot of this lately - as increasing numbers of farang refugees in Thailand find their dollar or pound 'fortunes' are becoming increasingly worthless in Thailand, they look at those Thais who are doing relatively well with increasing resentment and bitterness. How dare those little brown people with their strange food and language be able to afford things us big white folk can't. It's an outrage.

No, I am actually trying to figure out how the Thais are doing well when they make such tiny salaries for their profession (not business).

If a doctor makes 80K-100K baht/month, just guessing at this figure from the cost of a visit, then no, he is not doing very good and if he is a doctor and making this small amount of money how is anyone else even getting by?

Thanks.

[realmadrid25]

not to sound arrogant but I don't know who are all these people shopping in Paragon and spending a 1000 baht a for a 2 star meal at Fuji?? All I see on the news is the Thai economy is in shambles and commodites are through the roof. Perhaps they only do it once a month, so everytime I sit down in Fuji for a moderately priced meal there is a twenty minute wait. Perhaps all these people will not come back for another month. Or perhaps they have family money - which is always surprising to me, to see someone with a 15K baht a month salary driving a new BMW.

If it costs 400 baht for a doctors visit, how is anyone here on a salary (besides Expat salaries) getting by? If the doctors are making less than 80-100K a month, then who are all these people packing the stores every weekend?

Even when it comes to condominiums. Every project sells out, no problem. How do any of the locals manage to save 20 million baht if salaries are this low?

Is it different from the West where someone can become well off with a 'job' where as here you have to own a business or have no shot whatsoever?

You are a victim of the mass media and the Thai Internet Forums and have allowed them, and maybe your location as well, to form your perception of the Thai economy. As said earlier, there are millions of middle class Thais, making 50k or much more, that can easily afford a lunch in Fuji's with the family every Saturday or Sunday.

Also, just like in the western world, when a child or grandchild from well-to-do family graduates from university, it is not unusual for them to be rewarded with a very nice car, hence the young people, just starting out, that drive the Benz's that seem to bother you so much.

TH

A 50K a month is nothing when you have a family. I think too many of you are looking at it from your bachelor perspective. 50K might not even pay for price of a child's international school. If you are living in a cramped apartment as a single man, then sure 50k is fine and food courts are cheap, but if you are married wth a couple of kids, 50k is essentially chicken feed, even in Thailand.

[burman]

50K might not even pay for price of a child's international school.

Well.....not all kids go to an international school do they?

[junkofdavid2]

I've seen a lot of this lately - as increasing numbers of farang refugees in Thailand find their dollar or pound 'fortunes' are becoming increasingly worthless in Thailand, they look at those Thais who are doing relatively well with increasing resentment and bitterness.

Like Bendix, I love to laugh at farangs who look at those Thais who are doing relatively well with increasing resentment and bitterness (often also because these same farangs are the ones who are too "low-so" to even slightly "penetrate" the Thai upper-middle and upper-classed).

However, to be fair to the opening poster, I find his post questions objectively phrased and do NOT see any evidence of so called "bitterness" in the way he wrote it, IMHO...

[Richie1971]

I know a Thai guy, who is on 30k Baht a month and has just bought a brand new Mercedes on which he pays 27K Baht a month, I asked him how he survives on 3k bht diposable income per month and he says its enough as he is Thai. He pays 1,500bht p/m for what can only be described as a concrete shed with a corrogated roof. It's all to do with face again, he loves the way the Police salute him when he drives past.

So that leaves him 50 baht per day for fuel and food.......no problem.

Not my problem anyway

[Richie1971]

I know a Thai guy, who is on 30k Baht a month and has just bought a brand new Mercedes on which he pays 27K Baht a month, I asked him how he survives on 3k bht diposable income per month and he says its enough as he is Thai. He pays 1,500bht p/m for what can only be described as a concrete shed with a corrogated roof. It's all to do with face again, he loves the way the Police salute him when he drives past.

He'll be fuc_ked if he has to pay for any repairs then.

How can he afford to put fuel in his Benz?

He doesn't drive it everyday, i think a daily 200m jaunt to 7/11 is sufficient for face

[realmadrid25]

50K might not even pay for price of a child's international school.

Well.....not all kids go to an international school do they?

if a doctor visit costs me 400-600 baht, then i guesstimate a doctor makes around 100k month. if international school runs 50k/month, then that means a doctor cant afford to send his kids to international school, which was my inital question: how are Thais who are getting paid a salary (they dont own a business) survive, let alone shop in paragon, etc.

[samran]

I've seen a lot of this lately - as increasing numbers of farang refugees in Thailand find their dollar or pound 'fortunes' are becoming increasingly worthless in Thailand, they look at those Thais who are doing relatively well with increasing resentment and bitterness. How dare those little brown people with their strange food and language be able to afford things us big white folk can't. It's an outrage.

No, I am actually trying to figure out how the Thais are doing well when they make such tiny salaries for their profession (not business).

Thanks.

family wealth subsidises the rest. And there is alot of family wealth here. A lunch at Fuji is chicken feed if mummy and daddy bought the house you live in and the car you drove to Paragon.

[realmadrid25]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

[Heng]

50K might not even pay for price of a child's international school.

Well.....not all kids go to an international school do they?

if a doctor visit costs me 400-600 baht, then i guesstimate a doctor makes around 100k month. if international school runs 50k/month, then that means a doctor cant afford to send his kids to international school, which was my inital question: how are Thais who are getting paid a salary (they dont own a business) survive, let alone shop in paragon, etc.

What about his/her rental property income?

[KireB]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

To do very well and being rich are not the same.

And I didn't know doctors were rich where I come from.

They live comfortably and can afford a nice Volvo, house and tennis lessons for the wife, actually same as here not?

To be well off, has only partly to do with your monthly income. It has also to do with property ownership, future revenues like pension etc...

[Heng]

I've seen a lot of this lately - as increasing numbers of farang refugees in Thailand find their dollar or pound 'fortunes' are becoming increasingly worthless in Thailand, they look at those Thais who are doing relatively well with increasing resentment and bitterness. How dare those little brown people with their strange food and language be able to afford things us big white folk can't. It's an outrage.

No, I am actually trying to figure out how the Thais are doing well when they make such tiny salaries for their profession (not business).

Thanks.

family wealth subsidises the rest. And there is alot of family wealth here. A lunch at Fuji is chicken feed if mummy and daddy bought the house you live in and the car you drove to Paragon.

And let's not sell grandmummy and granddaddy short either. Oh, and what a foreward thinker greatgranddaddy was, to not sell up everything and move to some tropical country and piss away what modest life savings he had... because who would know that a single shophouse might be the catalyst for fifty to a hundred times that in property wealth over time.

p.s. and that doesn't even have to be the case for "business families," there are families of teachers and government officers who have virtually no business acumen, other than the common sense to hold onto their homes + land and adding to that over time.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Heng

[bendix]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

Not true. There are lawyers sitting metres away from me as I write this who will earn an average of US$800-900,000 this year. Admittedly it's a good year, but half a million or more is commonplace in this profession at the right level.

[mellow1]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

Not true. There are lawyers sitting metres away from me as I write this who will earn an average of US$800-900,000 this year. Admittedly it's a good year, but half a million or more is commonplace in this profession at the right level.

So what percent of the Thai population would you say are in that bracket?

[thaihome]

A 50K a month is nothing when you have a family. I think too many of you are looking at it from your bachelor perspective. 50K might not even pay for price of a child's international school. If you are living in a cramped apartment as a single man, then sure 50k is fine and food courts are cheap, but if you are married wth a couple of kids, 50k is essentially chicken feed, even in Thailand.

In case this was directed at me, to set the record straight, I am a family man, working in Thailand making about USD200k a year. I live in a bit more then a cramped apt. My Thai subordinates and co-workers, except my secretary and driver.

,all make close to or over 100K baht a month.

I was merely pointing out to the OP that not every Thai is working for minimum wage and can easily afford to spend weekends at the mall taking the family to lunch.

TH

[bendix]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

Not true. There are lawyers sitting metres away from me as I write this who will earn an average of US$800-900,000 this year. Admittedly it's a good year, but half a million or more is commonplace in this profession at the right level.

So what percent of the Thai population would you say are in that bracket?

Very few, but even one example refutes the proposition that noone gets rich from a salary in Thailand.

I look around me in the cbd district of Bangkok and I see lots of Thais earning pretty good money. Large MNC finance companies, CA firms, law firms .. they all pay premiums for good quality people.

There are four secretaries sitting outside my office right now. All young women in their twenties. Not one of them is earning less than 65,000 a month and all but one of them are married to young thai guys earning similar if not better salaries at places like Citibank or Deloitte.

[cmsally]

The fact that there is no inheritance tax in Thailand should go someway as to explaining where the extra spending money comes from.

[clausewitz]

The middle class comprise several million people in thailand. I earn over 100,000 baht/month in thailand but my Thai friends earn more from their businesses. They have large houses, maids and send their children to international schools.

[mellow1]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

Not true. There are lawyers sitting metres away from me as I write this who will earn an average of US$800-900,000 this year. Admittedly it's a good year, but half a million or more is commonplace in this profession at the right level.

So what percent of the Thai population would you say are in that bracket?

Very few, but even one example refutes the proposition that noone gets rich from a salary in Thailand.

I look around me in the cbd district of Bangkok and I see lots of Thais earning pretty good money. Large MNC finance companies, CA firms, law firms .. they all pay premiums for good quality people.

There are four secretaries sitting outside my office right now. All young women in their twenties. Not one of them is earning less than 65,000 a month and all but one of them are married to young thai guys earning similar if not better salaries at places like Citibank or Deloitte.

Ok, then what percent of the population would you say makes, 65,000 a month? I'm asking cause I live in Issan and the majority of the people here are very poor, and a person working in BKK with a college education is said to be able to make about 16,000 a month. There is a 50,000 baht difference in these numbers. I have a niece and a nephew both college educated, one speaks, writes, and reads English very well yet cannot even get close to making 16,000 a month. So as you can see I wonder why. I mean if its commonplace, why aren't they able to find these plentiful jobs with good pay, which you are surrounded by? I really want the best for the individuals in the family of which I am a member. Yet in the years which I have lived here the salaries which you describe seem not at all commonplace. In fact I would say that they are quite rare.

[mellow1]

The middle class comprise several million people in thailand. I earn over 100,000 baht/month in thailand but my Thai friends earn more from their businesses. They have large houses, maids and send their children to international schools.

There are also many retired westerners which earn that or close to it on retirement benefits.

[wintermute]

I know a Thai guy, who is on 30k Baht a month and has just bought a brand new Mercedes on which he pays 27K Baht a month, I asked him how he survives on 3k bht diposable income per month and he says its enough as he is Thai. He pays 1,500bht p/m for what can only be described as a concrete shed with a corrogated roof. It's all to do with face again, he loves the way the Police salute him when he drives past.

Classic example of Chinese / SE Asian thinking. Sod the hole in the roof or the broken toilet (what toilet ?), lets have the new plasma TV and the Mercedes.

The exact opposite of buying things that go up in value rather than depreciate. Fools all.

What are you talking about? SE Asian spending habits are not even close to being the same as NE Asian. Chinese are notorious for being tightwads and value orientated spenders. In the U.S. it's not unusual for one generation of Chinese to save up for the next so the can go to an elite ivy league university and get that nice 6 figure job. I don't see any of them buying ghetto trinkets to show off unless they are actually wealthy.

[thaihome]

Ok, then what percent of the population would you say makes, 65,000 a month? I'm asking cause I live in Issan and the majority of the people here are very poor, and a person working in BKK with a college education is said to be able to make about 16,000 a month. There is a 50,000 baht difference in these numbers. I have a niece and a nephew both college educated, one speaks, writes, and reads English very well yet cannot even get close to making 16,000 a month. So as you can see I wonder why. I mean if its commonplace, why aren't they able to find these plentiful jobs with good pay, which you are surrounded by? I really want the best for the individuals in the family of which I am a member. Yet in the years which I have lived here the salaries which you describe seem not at all commonplace. In fact I would say that they are quite rare.

Well, it ain't in Issan, just like every country in the world, the big city is where bucks are. If your niece and nephew are as qualified as you say and they cannot find a job in Bangkok or the Eastern Seaboard for even 16k a month they aren't looking very hard or don't understand where the money is.

Suggest they try looking in the English newspaper want ads every day for a start. Or they could go to a vocational school and learn how to weld. That would get them well over 20k.

TH

[Ijustwannateach]

There's a divide in the types of jobs being discussed here, tho'. I would guess that Bendix works at a multinational style place, so they have to offer competitive salaries on different scales than would be available to typical Thai salarymen at typical Thai companies (whether lawyers or not).

What has been said about the strength of the Thai commercial class is true. Being surprised by it is part of the attitude I was lampooning not long ago in my joke thread about tourists being surprised to see people going to work in Bangkok.

The public servants are not paupers, either. There is a big grey/black economy here that extends further into the middle class population than I believe it would in many English-speaking countries. For example, I know a number of Thai teachers in various schools who earn lower salaries than I do- but I don't have access to the entrance fees, the supplies, or the book discounts. At a higher level, one can start to talk about construction kickbacks, government & international project money skimming, staff retreats abroad, etc., etc. The Thai teachers do ok- and that's ignoring the possibilities they may have well-connected families, rent-free homes to live in, and/or spouses who are doing pretty well. And yes- there are plenty who don't do so well. But it's possible, and common enough that I regard the Thai teaching community as comfortably middle class, though their average salaries on paper will most likely never reach even the 50K mark.

Me, I work for rice and kanom and stay in my cardboard box. Now and then a kind soul will leave a Fuji bento outside my lid. I use the chopsticks for structural support.

"S"

[jdinasia]

so you confirm my suspision that it is next to impossible to become 'rich' in thailand on a salary, unlike Western countries where a doctor or various other professions can do very very well on a salary.

Not true. There are lawyers sitting metres away from me as I write this who will earn an average of US$800-900,000 this year. Admittedly it's a good year, but half a million or more is commonplace in this profession at the right level.

So what percent of the Thai population would you say are in that bracket?

Very few, but even one example refutes the proposition that noone gets rich from a salary in Thailand.

I look around me in the cbd district of Bangkok and I see lots of Thais earning pretty good money. Large MNC finance companies, CA firms, law firms .. they all pay premiums for good quality people.

There are four secretaries sitting outside my office right now. All young women in their twenties. Not one of them is earning less than 65,000 a month and all but one of them are married to young thai guys earning similar if not better salaries at places like Citibank or Deloitte.

Ok, then what percent of the population would you say makes, 65,000 a month? I'm asking cause I live in Issan and the majority of the people here are very poor, and a person working in BKK with a college education is said to be able to make about 16,000 a month. There is a 50,000 baht difference in these numbers. I have a niece and a nephew both college educated, one speaks, writes, and reads English very well yet cannot even get close to making 16,000 a month. So as you can see I wonder why. I mean if its commonplace, why aren't they able to find these plentiful jobs with good pay, which you are surrounded by? I really want the best for the individuals in the family of which I am a member. Yet in the years which I have lived here the salaries which you describe seem not at all commonplace. In fact I would say that they are quite rare.

I wouldn't say they are all that RARE

My partner has a BA in computer engineering from a private Uni in BKK (Thai Uni) and made about 25k a month his first year out of school. Now he's 28 and doing better than 65k a month.

[Plus]

That guy with the Benz bought it for the face value, and that's an investment. No one is ever going to see his shack but everyone will notice his ride.

And he CAN live on 3k a month, for those arguing about low purchasing power - can you live on that in the West?

As for growth - it's true the base is pretty low but it's a growth nevertheless. Economy is far from shambles.

Income disparity here is not much different from the US. Today I read that it has been growing very fast in Germany, too - that's your average European socialist country. The number of people living on substinence wages is in millions there and it has increased by 50% in just a couple of years.

[jeffer]

Remember the daughter of the Bangkok Film Festival official who was supposed to have had money transferred to her account? The reports at the time said she was working for the Finance Ministry and earning less than 10,000 baht a month if I remember correctly. If a person with good family connections like her doesn't earn a lot then it makes you wonder if there can really be very many Thais earning over 50,000 per month.

[burman]

^ But how much extra money did she earn from transactions like she was accused of?

A lot of money earned in Thailand is not on the books.

[wangsuda]

The public servants are not paupers, either. There is a big grey/black economy here that extends further into the middle class population than I believe it would in many English-speaking countries. For example, I know a number of Thai teachers in various schools who earn lower salaries than I do- but I don't have access to the entrance fees, the supplies, or the book discounts. At a higher level, one can start to talk about construction kickbacks, government & international project money skimming, staff retreats abroad, etc., etc. The Thai teachers do ok- and that's ignoring the possibilities they may have well-connected families, rent-free homes to live in, and/or spouses who are doing pretty well. And yes- there are plenty who don't do so well. But it's possible, and common enough that I regard the Thai teaching community as comfortably middle class, though their average salaries on paper will most likely never reach even the 50K mark.

Me, I work for rice and kanom and stay in my cardboard box. Now and then a kind soul will leave a Fuji bento outside my lid. I use the chopsticks for structural support.

"S"

I would also like to add that Thais have, IMO, much more buying power than we do. The ease of obtaining credit can vastly increase what they have to show. The car that you or I would have to put 30% down on, can be had by a Thai for 5-10% down (Izusu and Mitsubishi are doing this now). A shrewed-thinking Thai can take his or her 15,000 baht per month and, with proper credit purchases on land and other income properties, probably net a nice income. I don't think this is something your average foreigner can do easily, if at all. PLUS . . . we never seem to get a share of the rake!