American Shot Dead In Chiang Mai

[photojourn]

I would suggest that we wait until there is more information about the shooting before we all go off half-cocked.

I agree!

HUH?

Case is over and he bought his way out in two years from now for 100, 000$ he paid to a mystery girlfriend, corruption made that possible.

How much more information about the shooting do you think we're going to get now???

Pretty well sums it up. Sounds like a very Thai solution. Hurry up and wait.

[Briggsy]

I would suggest that we wait until there is more information about the shooting before we all go off half-cocked.

I agree!

HUH?

Case is over and he bought his way out in two years from now for 100, 000$ he paid to a mystery girlfriend, corruption made that possible.

How much more information about the shooting do you think we're going to get now???

That's about the top and bottom of it, Tony. I would change mystery girlfriend to mystery non-girlfriend though.

[Sweet Dreams]

Of course, the Prosecution can now Appeal the sentence - 3 courts here - or have things changed recently?

[frankman]

Just another day, or normal morning, in the land of smile...

[chevykanteve]

Story is odd. Narcotics officers in the field are not usually 60 years old. Perhaps the accused was an "informant" and liked to describe himself as a police officer. It's even odder that the Thai police would employ an elderly farang man as a narcotics officer. What one does have are police officers from other countries assigned to Thailand. DEA has a number of agents, as does UK, Australia and Germany. They all talk to each other and work at tracking shipments and intelligence gathering. Australian agents are also involved in human rights protection tracking human smuggling and I just can't see an Australian agent doing something like this.

Alot of farangs in Thailand claim to be something they are not. I would not be surprised to see this not even be drug related but more of a drunk trying to be a bigshot, along the lines of Monkey See, Monkey Do.

In any case, answering the questions pickel posed, I'm sure they will find a way to blame some Thai for the conduct of the farangs. I'm sure someone will make a link to Thaksin and blame him too.

All in all another wasted life.

I was Indiana Jones in a past life..... Just kidding, but a little levity wouldn't be uncalled for here.

[lomatopo]

I'm a bit amazed at the length of the sentence; based on what little I've read on the matter, actual sentences served, it seems like this guy will go free in about 15 months, but maybe he'll get a Royal pardon sooner. I could see a similarly short sentence, or possibly acquittal, if it was a Thai person who killed a foreigner but you'd think they'd want to make an example of a foreigner murdering another foreigner?

So was his total payout 100,000 THB? Or was that just one payment to some woman for reparations? DId he also have to pay the RTP, Prosecutor and Judge?

Obviously without minimum, mandatory sentences there is no deterrence.

[Tony Clifton]

I'm a bit amazed at the length of the sentence; based on what little I've read on the matter, actual sentences served, it seems like this guy will go free in about 15 months, but maybe he'll get a Royal pardon sooner. I could see a similarly short sentence, or possibly acquittal, if it was a Thai person who killed a foreigner but you'd think they'd want to make an example of a foreigner murdering another foreigner?

So was his total payout 100,000 THB? Or was that just one payment to some woman for reparations? DId he also have to pay the RTP, Prosecutor and Judge?

Obviously without minimum, mandatory sentences there is no deterrence.

No Royal pardon here.

If RTP, prosecutor and judge got money, it was from that woman who would have handed the money over to them in return for a much smaller commission as many believe she had nothing to do with the victim. These lower courts are often quite Felliniesque.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[photojourn]

Of course, the Prosecution can now Appeal the sentence - 3 courts here - or have things changed recently?

Not likely as it was the Chief Provincial Public Prosecutor who ran the the case and it was he who suggested four years when asked for a sentencing recommendation by the trial judge - who happened to be the Chief Justice of the Chiang Mai Provincial Court - so it can't even be argued that the case was run and heard before a junior judge or prosecuted by a junior prosecutor.

[Briggsy]

Back at post #1, the murderer described himself as an [ex-] narcotics policeman.

The sentence may show there was some truth in his statement.

Over here, connections and status heavily influence sentencing (as does money).

And for those that require a precedent, who recalls the NIDA professor who battered his wife to death with a golfing umbrella and got a suspended sentence on the grounds of provocation. (The provocation was his wife was seeing another man.)

[papajohn]

One to the head, two to the body is standard for special ops. This guy knew his stuff and was a professional at one time or other, no doubt.

I agree, the sentence is a crime in itself. The dead man was unarmed. He was executed by an Aussie cop. <deleted> ? The girlfriend thing is a ruse

to confuse the issue. This is politics pure and simple. So be careful

with the people you meet here !!! Sawadee Kup.

[LomSak27]

Another case of murder and justice in Chiang Mai. Great quote from a paper in Victoria BC

"According to the Chiang Mai newspaper, Margaret Crane and Daniel Dubie met at the Whole Earth Restaurant on Sri Don Chai Road. Witnesses told police the couple argued, and, once in the parking lot, Dubie threatened Crane with a pistol. She took the weapon, fired in his direction, got in a car, and drove away. Police saw her drive to Pa Tan Bridge and throw "what looked like a pistol into the river." They followed and arrested her. At first she denied everything, but eventually admitted "she committed the crime in a fit of fury." A witness at the scene identified Crane as the shooter."

The little news clip unfortunatly does not mention specifics, such as the fact Margaret arranged the meeting and brought the gun, not Dubie as initially claimed. Furthermore the trial did bring out what they had been arguing over, hold your breath here .... money. The father had already given a substantial sum (7 figures) but Margaret maintained she needed more.

The verdict? Two and a half years. Margaret had a smile in the photo I saw as well she should. Who says you can't get away with murder?!

[sriracha john]

Another case of murder and justice in Chiang Mai. Great quote from a paper in Victoria BC

"According to the Chiang Mai newspaper, Margaret Crane and Daniel Dubie met at the Whole Earth Restaurant on Sri Don Chai Road. Witnesses told police the couple argued, and, once in the parking lot, Dubie threatened Crane with a pistol. She took the weapon, fired in his direction, got in a car, and drove away. Police saw her drive to Pa Tan Bridge and throw "what looked like a pistol into the river." They followed and arrested her. At first she denied everything, but eventually admitted "she committed the crime in a fit of fury." A witness at the scene identified Crane as the shooter."

The little news clip unfortunatly does not mention specifics, such as the fact Margaret arranged the meeting and brought the gun, not Dubie as initially claimed. Furthermore the trial did bring out what they had been arguing over, hold your breath here .... money. The father had already given a substantial sum (7 figures) but Margaret maintained she needed more.

The verdict? Two and a half years. Margaret had a smile in the photo I saw as well she should. Who says you can't get away with murder?!

The differences between the two cases are detailed in these five separate threads devoted to the case:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Margaret-Cra...11.html&hl=

and

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Canadian-Sho...92.html&hl=

and

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bonnie-Kille...57.html&hl=

and

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Daniel-Dubie...39.html&hl=

and

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Canadian-Jou...20.html&hl=

* the thaivisa search engine is your friend *

Edited September 3, 2008 by sriracha john

[LomSak27]

Ahh Sri R good to see you around, tough times, what with PAD, the People’s Alliance for Democracy making it crystal the last thing they care about is DEMOCRACY, no matter what they call themselves. It is refreshing they finally came out of the closet and said hey this is who we are … we want a government where 30 percent are elected, 70 per cent appointed. You have to wonder how the members of this committee will be selected?! It looks blatantly ugly when the wealthy educated elite demand the permanent disenfranchisement of the rural community. A rural population traditionally used as a source of cheap labor by business and big city interests for decades if not centuries. TIT

But I digress.

I of course stand by my 2nd paragraph in the above post. If you read the five different subject/posts you list, regarding the M and D case (and my god, I wouldn’t wish that on you or any sane person as these are as bizarre a freak show ever on TV) you will quickly discover the posters accepted the version of events given to the press by, Ms Crane, the accused. The trial revealed many of these statements were outright lies. It also determined that this was a “premeditated act” as Ms C brought the gun to the meeting. Mr. D, by all accounts a very reprehensible bad nasty character. Of course many of those live and walk among us. The one good thing was both the US and Canadian governments did work hard to get funds straightened out for the children, even if a lot more of the money is tied up in legal issues. If you do hack through the voluminous M Crane postings you will notice of all the people ranting only three or four ever met the two. Well one of those is the individual from Hawaii that seems to hate Dubie but at the same time has a Stockholm syndrome attraction to him. Amazing huh.

That said I would bet money that the same way the Aussie got the minimal sentence is the exact same way that Ms Crane did. nuff said

[Loaded]

Well one of those is the individual from Hawaii that seems to hate Dubie but at the same time has a Stockholm syndrome attraction to him. Amazing huh.

Have to agree. I read and responded to posts on those threads and her attitude was often contradictory.

Won't be long before she finds this thread as I'm sure she googles that guy's name 24 hours a day.

[sbk]

Yes, well we aren't discussing that case in this thread, are we? Digression is one thing, derailing something entirely different. Lets try to keep it within the confines of this particular case thanks.

[LomSak27]

This was no derailment. I brought up the other case for the simple reason it was another murder case in CHIANG MAI. One that involved two westerners, both verdicts coming six months apart, and both with an absurdly minimal sentence.

I have ever reason to suspect the factors involved with Mr. Douglas short sentence are the exact same as those in Ms. Cranes sentence. End of story

[Thaiher2me]

Informants get less time in prison anyway, maybe it was just a case of ..."Don't bring a knife to a gunfight"

[papajohn]

Informants get less time in prison anyway, maybe it was just a case of ..."Don't bring a knife to a gunfight"

The victum was unarmed, no knife, no gun !! The killer said " I hate Americans, I have no remorse"

court records. This guy is a Phycho killer, when he gets out in 2 years I hope he moves next door to you.

[waza]

An Australian man has been jailed in Thailand for the shooting murder of an American tourist during a drunken quarrel.

William Douglas, 65, admitted to shooting Gary Poretsky, 46, in March this year after the two got into a drunken argument at a restaurant in the northern city of Chiang Mai.

Poretsky, from Hawaii, suffered three gunshot wounds to his face and chest.

A court on Monday sentenced Douglas to two years and nine months in jail after deciding the murder was not premeditated.

Douglas was originally from Perth, but had been a long time resident of Thailand, the ABC reported. He will serve out his sentence in Chiang Mai.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=616651

[hermida]

Restaurant shooter faces deportation

The Age (Australia)

June 9, 2010

AN AUSTRALIAN man convicted of murder is facing deportation to Australia from Thailand amid outrage over his early release from prison.

Sources said Bill Douglas, convicted of murdering an American tourist, was being held in an immigration detention centre pending deportation.

Douglas is a 61-year-old Vietnam War veteran who has been in Thailand for 30 years. He has served a little more than two years in prison for a restaurant shooting in the northern Thai city of Chiang Mai.

The court hearing was told that Douglas had boasted of previously killing two Thai men while working undercover with Thai police on drug busts. Several Australians have said they feared for their lives if Douglas was released and allowed to remain in Thailand.

The family of victim Gary Poretsky, 46, has lobbied US politicians for a judicial review of the case and a longer sentence.

Restaurant shooter faces deportation

==========================

The killer, Australian William Douglas:

His victim, American Gary Poretsky:

[daboyz1]

Wow! I guess life is cheap in Thailand if you're a farang. I wonder if he killed a Thai what the sentence would be?

[Hawk]

I wonder why he has been released early as all foreigners are required to do their full time in Thailand? Foreigners are not eligible for time off for good behaviour but Thais are because they have to work in jail, whereas foreigners are not required to work and therefore get no reduction of sentence.

All very strange!

This guy was supposed to be doing what in Thailand? Informer? Yes!

Anyway, alot of what he said was either fabrication or exaggeration.

[midasthailand]

This sort of thing beggars belief!!

How can a man that executed another human being in cold blood only get two years in jail?

I understand monies were paid but this is ridiculous.

Only in Thailand! Now he will return to Australia and live off the taxpayer while writing an autobiography about his life in Thailand.

[souvenirdeparis]

Story is odd. Narcotics officers in the field are not usually 60 years old. Perhaps the accused was an "informant" and liked to describe himself as a police officer. It's even odder that the Thai police would employ an elderly farang man as a narcotics officer. What one does have are police officers from other countries assigned to Thailand. DEA has a number of agents, as does UK, Australia and Germany. They all talk to each other and work at tracking shipments and intelligence gathering. Australian agents are also involved in human rights protection tracking human smuggling and I just can't see an Australian agent doing something like this.

Alot of farangs in Thailand claim to be something they are not. I would not be surprised to see this not even be drug related but more of a drunk trying to be a bigshot, along the lines of Monkey See, Monkey Do.

In any case, answering the questions pickel posed, I'm sure they will find a way to blame some Thai for the conduct of the farangs. I'm sure someone will make a link to Thaksin and blame him too.

All in all another wasted life.

....odder that the Thai police would employ an elderly farang man as a narcotics officer.

I fail to see an elderly man in this story.

don't see anyone over 30 as geriatric, kid

Edited June 9, 2010 by souvenirdeparis

[LomSak27]

The case was between two non thais, and the survivor had cash. Six Months previous, in a similar case, a M. Crane recieved a virtually identical sentence. That case was between two non thais and the survivor had cash. Chances are excellent relatives of both the deceased do not care about the case/ verdict, and or do not have cash.

Is this suprising?!

[Hawk]

Chances are excellent relatives of both the deceased do not care about the case/ verdict, and or do not have cash.

In fact the family of Gary Booth Poretsky care very much and have tried all kinds of ways to keep Douglas locked up, so your opinion is absolutely valueless.

[Kilgore Trout]

<!--quoteo(post=1885929:date=2008-03-22 20:34:17:name=Blinky Bill)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blinky Bill @ 2008-03-22 20:34:17) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Allegedly drinking all night , 60 yrs old and 28 yrs in Thailand, carrying a gun and a former or current narcotics cop. All sounds a bit suss.

Ho hum just another shitty day in the place some folks refer to as Paradise. No symapthy for either party from me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I couldn't agree more.

Unbelievable; how do you know that the guy who got shot wasn't just there drinking and talking to the guy, maybe he told the Aussie something like "you're full of $hi#" and then the other guy shot him?

Is something to that effect not possible? Truth is we don't know what happened and you are already saying som nam na.

Prick up your ears buddy; when it's one of your children shot that way you can think about someone saying they have no sympathy for them.

[LomSak27]

In fact the family of Gary Booth Poretsky care very much and have tried all kinds of ways to keep Douglas locked up, so your opinion is absolutely valueless.

Did they offer money to the judge who was trying the case? If they did not do this before the verdict then my advice is indeed valuless

[apetley]

Just read on PDN that this guy is in fact out after being granted release following a royal pardon from His Majesty the King.

If so he must be extremely well connected as you can get more jailtime for nicking a motorbike than the coldblooded shooting of someone in the head.

[needforspeed]

sentence 2 years in jail tells me enought about the people in charge here.

Edited June 13, 2010 by needforspeed