girlx Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 has anyone ever had this? i might be paranoid, but a few days ago i found a dead rat in my water supply in which i shower every day. i took as much of the water out of the tank as i could but i couldn't get it all. i poured some bleach in the remaining bit, and then refilled the tank with clean water. now i am soooo sick. i had really bad conjunctivitis for a couple days. now i have a fever, chills, horrible muscle aches, lethargy, headache, stomach pain. all of these seem to be symptoms of leptospirosis. i can barely move except to use the internet and go get juice from the fridge. if anyone knows anything about this, can they tell me what is used to treat it? i am pretty far away from any doctor or pharmacy, but i do have some antibiotics i might be able to use. thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee123 Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 ......how are you feeling?,..hope u are feeling better.....sorry i can't helpu with this but always best to see a doctor, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cali4995 Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Never had it but it does sound quite nasty. Some useful basic info on the link below. They say a blood or urine test can determine and treatment with doxycycline which is pretty standard as antibiotics go. With those circumstances, I'd be worried also. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo...ospirosis_g.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 lepto affects the liver, and treatment and follow up by a doctor is needed so get thee to a doc girlx; and yes , rats mice et al and water supplies can definately mean lepto... btw, not cause it was dead in the water but cause they pee and shit in the water.... its a classic zoonoses.... but it could also be a few other things since dead animals in water means decay and bacterias of other sorts.... googled and got this, funnily enough in thailand with phone number etc to call:i underlined the number for u, and its up to date also.... u might even try calling them.... Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy, September 2007, p. 3259-3263, Vol. 51, No. 90066-4804/07/$08.00+0 doi:10.1128/AAC.00508-07 Copyright © 2007, American Society for Microbiology. All Rights Reserved. Doxycycline versus Azithromycin for Treatment of Leptospirosis and Scrub Typhus{triangledown} Kriangsak Phimda,1 Siriwan Hoontrakul,2 Chuanpit Suttinont,3 Sompong Chareonwat,4 Kitti Losuwanaluk,5 Sunee Chueasuwanchai,6 Wirongrong Chierakul,6,7 Duangjai Suwancharoen,8 Saowaluk Silpasakorn,9 Watcharee Saisongkorh,10 Sharon J. Peacock,6 Nicholas P. J. Day,6 and Yupin Suputtamongkol9* Udonthani Hospital, Udonthani Province, Thailand,1 Chumphon Hospital, Chumphon Province, Thailand,2 Maharat Nakhon Ratchasima Hospital, Nakhon Ratchasima Province, Thailand,3 Chaiyapoom Hospital, Chaiyapoom Province, Thailand,4 Banmai Chaiyapod Hospital, Bureerum Province, Thailand,5 Wellcome Trust-Mahidol University-Oxford University Tropical Medicine Research Programme, Faculty of Tropical Medicine, Mahidol University, Bangkok, Thailand,6 Faculty of Tropical Medicine, Mahidol University, Bangkok, Thailand,7 National Research Institute of Animal Health, Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperative, Nondhaburi Province, Thailand,8 Faculty of Medicine Siriraj Hospital, Mahidol University, Bangkok, Thailand,9 Ministry of Public Health, Thailand, Nondhaburi Province, Thailand,10 Received 14 April 2007/ Returned for modification 23 May 2007/ Accepted 6 July 2007 Leptospirosis and scrub typhus are important causes of acute fever in Southeast Asia. Options for empirical therapy include doxycycline and azithromycin, but it is unclear whether their efficacies are equivalent. We conducted a multicenter, open, randomized controlled trial with adult patients presenting with acute fever (<15 days), without an obvious focus of infection, at four hospitals in Thailand between July 2003 and January 2005. Patients were randomly allocated to receive either a 7-day course of doxycycline or a 3-day course of azithromycin. The cure rate, fever clearance time, and adverse drug events were compared between the two study groups. A total of 296 patients were enrolled in the study. The cause of acute fever was determined for 151 patients (51%): 69 patients (23.3%) had leptospirosis; 57 patients (19.3%) had scrub typhus; 14 patients (4.7%) had murine typhus; and 11 patients (3.7%) had evidence of both leptospirosis and a rickettsial infection. The efficacy of azithromycin was not inferior to that of doxycycline for the treatment of both leptospirosis and scrub typhus, with comparable fever clearance times in the two treatment arms. Adverse events occurred more frequently in the doxycycline group than in the azithromycin group (27.6% and 10.6%, respectively; P = 0.02). In conclusion, doxycycline is an affordable and effective choice for the treatment of both leptospirosis and scrub typhus. Azithromycin was better tolerated than doxycycline but is more expensive and less readily available. * Corresponding author. Mailing address: Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medicine at Siriraj Hospital, Mahidol University, Bangkok 10700, Thailand. Phone: 66 2 419 9067. Fax: 66 2 412 9068. E-mail: [email protected] {triangledown} Published ahead of print on 16 July 2007. Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy, September 2007, p. 3259-3263, Vol. 51, No. 9 0066-4804/07/$08.00+0 doi:10.1128/AAC.00508-07 Copyright © 2007, American Society for Microbiology. All Rights Reserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 (edited) has anyone ever had this? i might be paranoid, but a few days ago i found a dead rat in my water supply in which i shower every day. i took as much of the water out of the tank as i could but i couldn't get it all. i poured some bleach in the remaining bit, and then refilled the tank with clean water. now i am soooo sick. i had really bad conjunctivitis for a couple days. now i have a fever, chills, horrible muscle aches, lethargy, headache, stomach pain. all of these seem to be symptoms of leptospirosis. i can barely move except to use the internet and go get juice from the fridge. if anyone knows anything about this, can they tell me what is used to treat it? i am pretty far away from any doctor or pharmacy, but i do have some antibiotics i might be able to use. thx That's pretty serious girlx....GO TO A HOSPITAL !! It could become worse...and have severe complications here is an answer to your question (if you read this at all and didn't go to a hospital yet...): It's also called Weil's disease: Causes (Amongst others): Leptospirosis is transmitted by the urine of an infected animal, and is contagious as long as it is still moist.......Humans become infected through contact with water, food, or soil containing urine from these infected animals. Diagnostics On infection the microorganism can be found in blood for the first 7 to 10 days (invoking serologically identifiable reactions) and then moving to the kidneys. After 7 to 10 days the microorganism can be found in fresh urine. Treatment Leptospirosis treatment is a relatively complicated process comprising two main components - suppressing the causative agent and fighting possible complications. Aetiotropic drugs are antibiotics, such as doxycycline, penicillin, ampicillin, and amoxicillin (doxycycline can also be used as a prophylaxis). There are no human vaccines; animal vaccines are only for a few strains, and are only effective for a few months. Human therapeutic dosage of drugs is as follows: doxycycline 100 mg orally every 12 hours for 1 week or penicillin 1-1.5 MU every 4 hours for 1 week. Doxycycline 200-250 mg once a week is administered as a prophylaxis. In dogs, penicillin is most commonly used to end the leptospiremic phase (infection of the blood), and doxycycline is used to eliminate the carrier state. Supportive therapy measures (esp. in severe cases) include detoxication and normalization of the hydro-electrolytic balance. Glucose and salt solution infusions may be administered; dialysis is used in serious cases. Elevations of serum potassium are common and if the potassium level gets too high special measures must be taken. Serum phosphorus levels may likewise increase to unacceptable levels due to renal failure. Treatment for hyperphosphatemia consists of treating the underlying disease, dialysis where appropriate, or oral administration of calcium carbonate, but not without first checking the serum calcium levels (these two levels are related). Corticosteroids administration in gradually reduced doses (e.g., prednisolone starting from 30-60 mg) during 7-10 days is recommended by some specialists in cases of severe haemorrhagic effects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptospirosis ADVICE: 1. Do not experiment with your own antibiotics (unless it's one of the above mentioned) 2. If you're still on Koh Phangan: ask your friends to transport you by (speed)-boat/longtail to Samui, either Bophut/Big Buddha beach and have them transport you to the nearest hospital or EITHER to Nathon. The guys with the boats know best when to go....early morning when the sea is smooth ??? IF you are able to make it....fly to BKK and go to one of the larger hospitals...you only live once... Note: while answering I saw Bina's post and noticed there is also a hospital on the mainland and maybe closer that Bangkok qua transport: "Chumphon Hospital, Chumphon Province, Thailand,2" I'm sure Bina doesn't mind I copied the above from her message. Good Luck ! LaoPo Edited March 22, 2008 by LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 tanks guys, i'll see how it goes today, i do have some doxy i can take. otherwise i have to go to samui in a few days for my visa extension so i can go to the hospital then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 tanks guys, i'll see how it goes today, i do have some doxy i can take. otherwise i have to go to samui in a few days for my visa extension so i can go to the hospital then. You sound less ill/panicked than last night.....that's hopeful. But.....I wouldn't wait a few days with those symptoms....your health is worth more than a visa extension I suppose. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Girlx get to a Hospital soon. That is nasty stuff you are playing with and I want you around so we can continue oru work permit argument for a few more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluelotus Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Last fall several Prem teachers contracted this and were hospitalized for a week or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 has anyone ever had this? i might be paranoid, but a few days ago i found a dead rat in my water supply in which i shower every day. i took as much of the water out of the tank as i could but i couldn't get it all. i poured some bleach in the remaining bit, and then refilled the tank with clean water. have mercy Girlx and don't tell us you drink water from a tank to which rats have access! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 If there have been other cases of leptospirosis in your community, then maybe you could have contracted it. However, it is unlikely that you contracted this from a rat that drowned in your shower pot. However, since no one is there to run a culture, one cannot rule it out. You may have dengue which still would require appropriate care. Stop waiting and get moving now. At the very least, if you are going to keep waiting, advise some of the neighbours so they can check up on you in case your situation worsens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 no of course i didn't drink the water but i may have showered with it a couple of times before noticing the rat. anyway today i am still feeling horrible but i have congested sinuses and a deep cough so i am beginning to think it is something else other than lepto. i appreciate all the responses though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries74 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 no of course i didn't drink the water but i may have showered with it a couple of times before noticing the rat. anyway today i am still feeling horrible but i have congested sinuses and a deep cough so i am beginning to think it is something else other than lepto. i appreciate all the responses though. You got to clean it really really good. I know you will check for rat from now on. Take care of yourself and Hope you get well soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 (edited) As a Kayaker I know quite a few people who caught this in the UK. I can tell you that if you think you might have it you need to go and get a blood test asap and make sure you tell the doctor that you think you have Leptospirosis as they can easily miss it. If you leave it longer than a few days before you start treatment then it can get extremely serious and you could be in hospital for weeks while your organs start to die. Edited March 23, 2008 by madjbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigger571 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I used to work on this virus for a number of years as I was a Vet Nurse by proffession. Leptospirosis is a very serious and potentially lethal virus and you should be hospitalised immidiatly. One symptom is a yellowing of the skin and gums. Also, anyone looking after you should take precautions and use gloves before handling any Urine, Feces, Vomit or Blood as you can easily get this through body fluids. Please dont waste any more time on this forum and seek medical help now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 rrg seriously it is not easy to get to a good doctor here, and i am immobile- does someone with experience with lepto think that a deep cough and sinus congestion are also symptoms (i haven't noticed these on websites)? if not, it is probably a bad flu and i am trying to ride it out. i still have a fever, headache, muscle pains, no stomach probs. i really do appreciate your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 One symptom is a yellowing of the skin and gums. what about yellowing of fingernails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheryl Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Sounds more like the flu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Sounds more like the flu. I'm happy you say that Sheryl ! Girlx: don't scare us anymore, please? Ask Sheryl by means of a PM first.... LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBN Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 It never ceases to amaze me that people with potentially life threatening diseases will sit quietly in front of a computer and post a new thread, wait for responses that may or may not be either in time or appropriate instead of doing what any rational person would do.... You need professional help. GO and get it for goodness sakes!! It is NOT a question of what you have, it is about EXCLUDING the most serious of the potential afflictions you may have!! You found a DEAD RAT in your drinking water, please follow the logical steps to get to a final diagnosis.. "The first phase of nonspecific flulike symptoms includes headaches, muscle aches, eye pain with bright lights, followed by chills and fever. Watering and redness of the eyes occurs and symptoms seem to improve by the fifth to ninth day." This quote speaks for itself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 (edited) I know two people that have mistaken it for the flu, their doctors were also mistaken. Nevertheless, because of the delay in the proper treatment they found it a long and painfully process trying to shake it off when if they had been on the proper medications from the start it could have been easily dealt with. Edited March 24, 2008 by madjbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 It never ceases to amaze me that people with potentially life threatening diseases will sit quietly in front of a computer and post a new thread, wait for responses that may or may not be either in time or appropriate instead of doing what any rational person would do.... you might be right but the doctors here are useless and difficult for me to get to, so it probably isn't any worse to sit and wait for someone like sheryl to comment. nevertheless, last night was horrific (fever gotten worse) so i am headed to the hospital today. You found a DEAD RAT in your drinking water nah it was in my showering water, i would never drink the water supply here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 It never ceases to amaze me that people with potentially life threatening diseases will sit quietly in front of a computer and post a new thread, wait for responses that may or may not be either in time or appropriate instead of doing what any rational person would do.... you might be right but the doctors here are useless and difficult for me to get to, so it probably isn't any worse to sit and wait for someone like sheryl to comment. nevertheless, last night was horrific (fever gotten worse) so i am headed to the hospital today. Sorry Girlx but you're acting irresponsible to yourself. NOW you go to hospital after 4 days full of pain and problems. You should have asked some guys in your beach resort to transport you by boat to Samui, like I suggested 4 days ago... I came out of hospital a few days ago with horrendous pain myself, for the second time in 7 weeks; if you're in trouble you ACT...not sit behind your computer and talk bull about combining the hospital with your visa extension. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 well it turns out it is probably just a bad flu, as sheryl said. the doctor was an idiot just as i thought (couldn't get a complete sentence out of the guy) and charged 2000 baht just to give me some decongestants and ibuprofen. i went to a pharmacy and got more doxy as well just in case it is a rat disease. paying for a speedboat to one of koh samui's overpriced hospitals would definitely have broken my budget. i think i will continue to follow my instincts and just self medicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBN Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 There you go... Attitudes... The poor doc never had a chance.. You have my vote though.. The Darwinian award for the week..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) yes you are probably right, but like i said i can barely move and there is no one here right now to help me. the doctor was useless, i asked him to test for lepto and he said he didn't think he wanted to (?) so i just looked up the antibiotics i need and am taking them on my own in case. but this is the 5th straight day i have had a fever so high i can't even see straight. i have a hard time believing it is just the flu. not sure i should go waste more money on another crappy doctor- have heard horror stories about the ones in samui as well. (sheryl i have PM'd you) Edited March 26, 2008 by girlx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuian Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) has anyone ever had this? ....edit...now i am soooo sick. i had really bad conjunctivitis for a couple days. now i have a fever, chills, horrible muscle aches, lethargy, headache, stomach pain. all of these seem to be symptoms of leptospirosis. i can barely move except to use the internet and go get juice from the fridge. Like another poster pointed out, it sounds more like Dengue, unusual for this time of the year! But KPG is known for Dengue infections, it will last 5-7 days, recovery may take up to 3 weeks... less so for Lepto... infections! very light sensitive, feels like you back is broken? Australians call it "back break fever".... fever, chills, horrible muscle aches, lethargy, headache, stomach pain. however it could be anything, after a period of 5-7 days it is not anymore easely detectable by culture or microscopic analysis! My advise is the same "GO and SEE A DOC!" (My recommendation is: Nathon Hospital, near Immigration..) from Wikipedia: "Signs and symptoms This infectious disease is manifested by a sudden onset of fever, with severe headache, muscle and joint pains (myalgias and arthralgias—severe pain gives it the name break-bone fever or bonecrusher disease) and rashes. The dengue rash is characteristically bright red petechiae and usually appears first on the lower limbs and the chest; in some patients, it spreads to cover most of the body. There may also be gastritis with some combination of associated abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting or diarrhea. Some cases develop much milder symptoms which can, when no rash is present, be misdiagnosed as influenza or other viral infection. Thus travelers from tropical areas may inadvertently pass on dengue in their home countries, having not been properly diagnosed at the height of their illness. Patients with dengue can pass on the infection only through mosquitoes or blood products and only while they are still febrile. The classic dengue fever lasts about six to seven days, with a smaller peak of fever at the trailing end of the disease (the so-called "biphasic pattern"). Clinically, the platelet count will drop until the patient's temperature is normal." Source: I had it three times... in mid 1990's... while i stayed in ban Bang Po - Ko Samui, near our House was a little lake, which only was flushes out in the rainy season, caught it 3 x in a row... Surgeon Doctor Somsak of Nathon, pointed to "Dengue"... I had very much the same symptoms as you describe them, or are described above...after I changed the location, I never cought it again! Lot's of water, drink, drink, drink... electrolytes help or simply sugar and (little) salt... cold wraps around ankles and calves... forehead and neck do help.. there is not much one can do, NO ASPIRIN (Acetylsalicylicacid!!) it will thin you blood and MAY cause bleeding of nose etc.....!!!!!! If so ONLY Paracetamol (against the pain and fever!) wish you a fast recovery! Edited March 26, 2008 by Samuian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHarries Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 well it turns out it is probably just a bad flu, as sheryl said. the doctor was an idiot just as i thought (couldn't get a complete sentence out of the guy) and charged 2000 baht just to give me some decongestants and ibuprofen. i went to a pharmacy and got more doxy as well just in case it is a rat disease. paying for a speedboat to one of koh samui's overpriced hospitals would definitely have broken my budget. i think i will continue to follow my instincts and just self medicate. girlx you have had some very good advice mainly centering around go to a reliable doctor or hospital and I would dare say sheryl will tell you similar so I'll say nothing more. BUT I would say if 2000 Baht plus a speedboat to a hospital would break your budget you have to ask yourself "am I in the right place?". All of us, no matter our age or physical condition, WILL almost certainly require urgent medical attention sometime. As sure as eggs are oval that "sometime" will be the most inconvenient time for us. If on top of that you are worrying about a few thousand Baht then you are living in the wrong place for your budget. Additionally, from reading between the lines, you don't seem to have any backup or support in the form of people you can rely on to help you out in situations like this. Living in an isolated paradise may seem like heaven but dying alone in one is definately hel_l. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 (edited) i don't have backup or support at "home" in the US either. i have always been very self reliant. that said, my normal friends here happen to be gone right now, and my neighbors too. but you are right about the budget thing. i do have the cash but i am just making excuses as i get very emotional when i am sick. i simply can not go wandering around the village looking for someone to take me on a speedboat. i could barely get the taxi to town yesterday and it was a miserable day. thanks for the info on dengue, but it is not dengue (and if it was, nothing i could do anyway). i don't have any of the symptoms except fever and headache (caused by congestion). my muscle pains went after the 2nd day. you would think the stupid doctor could have told me what it was, but he was more interested in charging me a lot of cash. Edited March 26, 2008 by girlx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlx Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 thanks to sheryl for answering my PM, you are a great resource to have on this board. i appreciate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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