Being Ripped Off By Builder

[womble]

I'm in the process of having my house renovated by a builder that I previously trusted.

We agreed a price to cover everything (2.5m) and now I have been billed for additional works that as far as I'm concerned should have been included in the original price.

Most of the snagging work hasn't been completed and there are many defects with the construction.

I never signed any contract as I trusted the builder, I also used this builder as a test for a much bigger job as a test to see if they were worthy of the contract, I have had to delay starting the bigger job (40m+), due to hold ups liquidating funds, which I suspect is why this builder is now taking the piss with my bill as they probobally think I have no intention of using them for the job (which I did until seeing this bill).

The job was finished late, many mistakes were made with construction, snagging is still not complete, and many materials are of inferior quality. On top of that I have been billed for a conceptual design(without being told) for the bigger job, when I have 4 other concepts from other builders that were provided free of charge, it is after all only a concept.

I have also been charged a 10% fee on the total bill for renovation for Job spec/works, what the hel_l is that????

The person who has presented me with this bill has some pretty shady local connections, so I don't really know how to play this, all I want is my renovation completed for a decent standard and fair price, how should I deal with these additional charges?

I have no contract, but then neigher do they, they want payment immediately, but the work is still not complete and snagging not finished.

What should I do, do I have any rights, can my lawyer help me in any way?

any advice greatly received........

[tattoodrob]

I'm in the process of having my house renovated by a builder that I previously trusted.

We agreed a price to cover everything (2.5m) and now I have been billed for additional works that as far as I'm concerned should have been included in the original price.

Most of the snagging work hasn't been completed and there are many defects with the construction.

I never signed any contract as I trusted the builder, I also used this builder as a test for a much bigger job as a test to see if they were worthy of the contract, I have had to delay starting the bigger job (40m+), due to hold ups liquidating funds, which I suspect is why this builder is now taking the piss with my bill as they probobally think I have no intention of using them for the job (which I did until seeing this bill).

The job was finished late, many mistakes were made with construction, snagging is still not complete, and many materials are of inferior quality. On top of that I have been billed for a conceptual design(without being told) for the bigger job, when I have 4 other concepts from other builders that were provided free of charge, it is after all only a concept.

I have also been charged a 10% fee on the total bill for renovation for Job spec/works, what the hel_l is that????

The person who has presented me with this bill has some pretty shady local connections, so I don't really know how to play this, all I want is my renovation completed for a decent standard and fair price, how should I deal with these additional charges?

I have no contract, but then neigher do they, they want payment immediately, but the work is still not complete and snagging not finished.

What should I do, do I have any rights, can my lawyer help me in any way?

any advice greatly received........

sorry to say but you really should have had a contract or at least something in writing before even startin........now youre gonna have to play hardball or get slam dunked.

hes trying it on with you(they all tend to) but you gotta remind him what was said at beginning and go thru it bit by bit explaining the differences.....maybe get the lawyer there with you at the time so he knows you mean business.if you still want to try and do it amicably before gettin lawyer involved then offer what you think is fair up till now and explain that you will now have to get somebody to rectify the errors which comes out of the quote you talked about.things that werent talked about then he cant charge you ie conceptual plan and that 10 percent bull.

you gotta haggle like anything and he deep down is probably expectin you to or he thinks your a right softie and willl just pay anything he asks.have you paid any money yet,i expect you have paid for some work done already?

did you discuss materials to use otherwise you cant moan when he uses what he wants as he will make money on that as much as he can ie use cheap stuff as cuts into his profit.

if need be then get him to write a breakdown of costs and why he now wants more and if your not happy just tell him your not happy .....your in the driving seat as you got the money and he wants it...tell him you dont wanna bring a lawyer in but will if you cant settle amicably,im sure he dont want this as if lawyer tells him to take you to court then would take him years to get the money and he wants it now.nevermind his shady connections unless he starts to threaten you then you can tell him he wont get any money but now you are trying to sort out fairly.he knows he has done a crap job and used cheap materials so you let him know that you know this!!! and give him chance to rectify or cut his money apropriately.sorry you gonna have to be a big boy on this one and toughen up or lose out and learn the hard way.have you got a business partner that can help back you up.....if not then bring a pretend one in(a friend) and tell builder it is his money involved and he aint happy so you cant pay it unless hes happy.maybe the builder thinks you are weak but if a strong partner comes in then he might change his thinkin.

i have a contract with everyone now that i do any sort of business with..........saves a hel_l of a lot of hassle.......even if with a good friend it is necessary as can fall out quite easy as people remember different things when not agreed in writing.good luck and i believe a lawyer can help you out if you really need one.

at least if your money comes thru on the big project then be thankful as he would have shafted you on that even worse.

ps 2.5 mill seems a lot for a renovation...hope you were having a lot done.

[lingnoi34]

If you already knew that this builder had "shady local connections" why didn't you go with someone more safe....?

L

[madjbs]

Although contracts make it easier remember not having one does not give them free will to do what they want. They still must perform to a expected reasonable level and not doing so gives you the legal right to do whatever you are doing now to set things right.

[Lucifer]

''I have no intention of using them for the job (which I did until seeing this bill).''

Eh? So, you were happy with the construction till you saw the bill?

[ray08]

I'm in the process of having my house renovated by a builder that I previously trusted.

We agreed a price to cover everything (2.5m) and now I have been billed for additional works that as far as I'm concerned should have been included in the original price.

Most of the snagging work hasn't been completed and there are many defects with the construction.

I never signed any contract as I trusted the builder, I also used this builder as a test for a much bigger job as a test to see if they were worthy of the contract, I have had to delay starting the bigger job (40m+), due to hold ups liquidating funds, which I suspect is why this builder is now taking the piss with my bill as they probobally think I have no intention of using them for the job (which I did until seeing this bill).

The job was finished late, many mistakes were made with construction, snagging is still not complete, and many materials are of inferior quality. On top of that I have been billed for a conceptual design(without being told) for the bigger job, when I have 4 other concepts from other builders that were provided free of charge, it is after all only a concept.

I have also been charged a 10% fee on the total bill for renovation for Job spec/works, what the hel_l is that????

The person who has presented me with this bill has some pretty shady local connections, so I don't really know how to play this, all I want is my renovation completed for a decent standard and fair price, how should I deal with these additional charges?

I have no contract, but then neigher do they, they want payment immediately, but the work is still not complete and snagging not finished.

What should I do, do I have any rights, can my lawyer help me in any way?

any advice greatly received........

I have no experience building in Thailand ,but have worked with builders as recently as a few motnhs ago devolping overseas , the point about 2.5 m to cover everything is a bit of a strange deal , every job i ever done last one farily big , there are always , unforseen and sometimes forseen extras ,in fact i allow 15 % and am pretty much onthe money every time , for the material used ,that must be agreed on beforehand and samples submitted to you ,otherwise of course the builder will go the cheaper route , not trying to defend the builder ,but how much more expensive was the next quote, a lot of builders ( make it all builders ) do rely on variation ( extras ) to charge on the job to help with final profit,

Better to negotiate the bill as there will be some space there and in future ,write down every item required but still allow for a 10-15% extra in costs

[backflip]

"I never signed any contract as I trusted the builder..."

Opps!

[Shah Jahan]

if your finished price is with %20 of what he told you to start then consider yourself lucky.

I have never ever heard of anybody in LOS getting a house finished for what the builder originally quoted.

but besides this, it seems he thinks you a good mark and is going to be a bully on this one.

best way to fight a thai bully is by being so dumb that you are dumber than the dumbest falang and then they will get frustrated because they think you are even too stupid to fall for their stupid tricks.

you have to be sooo dumb that even your wife will think that you have gone stupid.

and remember to have a nice smile being dumb

if you are stupid enough then he will self implode and retreat in shame.

much more effective than direct confrontation.

[womble]

if your finished price is with %20 of what he told you to start then consider yourself lucky.

I have never ever heard of anybody in LOS getting a house finished for what the builder originally quoted.

but besides this, it seems he thinks you a good mark and is going to be a bully on this one.

best way to fight a thai bully is by being so dumb that you are dumber than the dumbest falang and then they will get frustrated because they think you are even too stupid to fall for their stupid tricks.

you have to be sooo dumb that even your wife will think that you have gone stupid.

and remember to have a nice smile being dumb

if you are stupid enough then he will self implode and retreat in shame.

much more effective than direct confrontation.

The guy i'm dealing with is falang but working for a thai construction company........

[JimmyGreaves]

if your finished price is with %20 of what he told you to start then consider yourself lucky.

I have never ever heard of anybody in LOS getting a house finished for what the builder originally quoted.

but besides this, it seems he thinks you a good mark and is going to be a bully on this one.

best way to fight a thai bully is by being so dumb that you are dumber than the dumbest falang and then they will get frustrated because they think you are even too stupid to fall for their stupid tricks.

you have to be sooo dumb that even your wife will think that you have gone stupid.

and remember to have a nice smile being dumb

if you are stupid enough then he will self implode and retreat in shame.

much more effective than direct confrontation.

The guy i'm dealing with is falang but working for a thai construction company........

That says it all, especially in Samui!

[Shah Jahan]

The guy i'm dealing with is falang but working for a thai construction company........

I bet the falang gets a big cut on what he can overbill you.

didnt some falang just get arrested in samui for doing a housing rip-off?

silence is usually a great answer. let the falang embarrass himself to his thai masters so that they acknowledge that you were smarter than their pet falang and allow you to be.