Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?

[samran]

Sorry, it may be a dumb question, but why haven't you gone the extension route?

I'm planning on getting an extension closer to the expiration date of my Visa.

According to LopBuri, the extension clock starts counting from the last date of your current visa "ENTRY"... My 1 Year expires in November...

If I apply in October, based on my Wife's 2007 Tax Return of about 600K baht I should get a yearly extension until November 2009...

Saving myself another VISA Run to KL for the maximum time frame.

That will also give me 2 opportunities to renew my extension.. based on her anticipated 2008 Income, or 2009 income on a new Visa, if we have a bad year in 2008. Kow Jai???

I just hope it works and there are no screw-ups. TIT

But I'm still pissed about having to waste these days every 3 months.. and for WHAT good reason???

I just can't figure it out.

CS

Sorry, I still don't get it. Mai Kow Jai.

Your wife has done her 2007 tax return. The last date to do them would have been 31 March. As such, she has evidence of her income acceptable to immigration.

Righto, you've just done a border run. Say you did this April 1. This means you have a stay stamped till the end of June in your PP.

So in the last 30 days of THIS current stay, you go down and get your extension based on proof of 40K per month family income.......no more border runs...

[Heng]

Be positive and think of it like a road rally.

[engrin]

In Taiwan, if you are marrried, you are automtically granted an Alien Resident Card which needs to be extended yearly. No visa runs. Just show your paperwork and get a hospital check.

In Taiwan they dont break up families because someone is unemployed or cant prove X amount of dollars in the bank.

[CosmicSurfer]

Sorry, I still don't get it. Mai Kow Jai.

Your wife has done her 2007 tax return. The last date to do them would have been 31 March. As such, she has evidence of her income acceptable to immigration.

Righto, you've just done a border run. Say you did this April 1. This means you have a stay stamped till the end of June in your PP.

So in the last 30 days of THIS current stay, you go down and get your extension based on proof of 40K per month family income.......no more border runs...

Number 1 > Border Runs are cheaper than Visa runs.

Number 2 > Being as I can't gaurantee that I will meet the income requirements in future years, I prefer to extend my existing visa until the last segment before applying for an extension, thereby extending the time without a possible Visa run to the maximum.

Number 3 > Why does everyone insist on making this about ME??? This thread is not about ME...

This thread is about the inaneness of having to make a border run in this situation at all.

It has nothing to do with me, other than the fact that I must do one; which has caused me to ponder on the possible reasons of WHY I have to do it at all...

Except for it being the prevailing Law/Regulation, that is.

And to this question, I still have not received any satisfactory answer, other than ... Because!

I therefore Rest my case.. There is NO REASON....

It's just "BECAUSE"...

CS

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

I sympathise and understand what you mean, and most people explaining to you is actually just saying: "why not use a one year extension instead?".

Yes, some explained that the multy entry is for a different PURPOSE than the extension, for visits, but not to stay. I can see the tourist or frequent travelling businessman benefitting from this visa, but if issued on the basis of marriage, it gets meaningless without any restrictions and/or fee collection.

I asked a similar question about re-entry permit that also was not answered to my satisfaction, but I just gave up pressing for answers, because there are no real answers.

When I get my yearly extension based on retirement, I will do 90-day reporting which is OK and understandable, it is even free and painless. I just did one today, and since it was raining heavily, no queue, and 2 very nice ladies serving me, helpful and with a smile.

But if I want to leave the country and come back again, I need to pay 1,000 per single entry, and 3,800 for multiple entry. Now this to me can only be for money making purposes. Oh, now people will rush in and say I don't understand the difference between a visa (allowing entry) and extension (allowing stay). Yes I do, but once an extension is granted, why do they not let me come and go? Can only be the money issue.

Or as you say: It is so, because it is. But that will NEVER explain the lack of logic, which is what we are looking (in vain) for.

Good luck!

[kiakaha]

Sorry, it may be a dumb question, but why haven't you gone the extension route?

Exactly, thats what permit of stay extensions and re-entry permits are for.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Sorry, it may be a dumb question, but why haven't you gone the extension route?

Exactly, thats what permit of stay extensions and re-entry permits are for.

I knew this would happen, I just knew it...

Thanks guys, you are just confirming what I tried to say: You are explaining HOW it is, not WHY it is. But admittedly the latter is a tall order...

Please do not bother to comment anymore (to me), since we are talking about different things. I have long ago just accepted these things at face value, and for me it works kinda OK. But it could have been even easier, WITH NO LOSS OF CONTROL OR INCOME for the Thai Government (but perhaps with a few redundancies here and there...)

[MJo]

Good guestion, why.....?

Maybe something to do with old "Thai way" of husband providing for the wife and family. Most likely that's why Thai government has set the income limits to qualify for one year stay as foreign male. That's also the income for "Thailand" as it is more than likely you spend the 40k in Thailand to take care of you family. Take a look of any ladies who get married with Thai guys. Almost automatic PR. But still you need to renew it every year though.

Simple for me, i have the non-O one year multiple based on marriage and works well as we get back to Thailand frequently but have no need for one year extension with 90 day reporting. I can still be with my family 365 days a year... In fact it's not "one year visa" you are talking about, it's 90 days multiple entry visa that you can utilise as you like within a year from the date of issue. And that's why there is separate one year extension to stay available if you want to stay long term.

Yes you do need wife, non-O and some income to apply for one year extension but it's the same logic as in WP, first you need non-B and a job. Followed by WP and then you can apply for one year extension...

I fully agree it doesn't make that much sense for us falangs but that's how they set it up and if you can't live with it maybe it's time to pack your bags and move on...

Edited April 4, 2008 by MJo

[CosmicSurfer]

I knew this would happen, I just knew it...

Thanks guys, you are just confirming what I tried to say: You are explaining HOW it is, not WHY it is. But admittedly the latter is a tall order...

Please do not bother to comment anymore (to me), since we are talking about different things. I have long ago just accepted these things at face value, and for me it works kinda OK. But it could have been even easier, WITH NO LOSS OF CONTROL OR INCOME for the Thai Government (but perhaps with a few redundancies here and there...)

Finally.. another person that understands my original post... and I fully agree with you here...

It seems that very few understand the difference between a WHY question and a How or What question...

I guess Philosophy has truly died as a participatory sport. I intend to ignore any further repetitive How and What answers..

but if anyone would like to take a shot at the WHY.. then I'm most interested.

Is it something in the water that causes a general lack of logic??

Maybe it's just an urge to make things Pavlovian in nature for the pleasure of watching all the mice go scurrying around to get the cheese???? Hmmm.. This actually makes the most sense...

We are just part of a Pavlovian experience.. Welcome to the "Twilight Zone".

CS

[scyriacus]

longball, you are right. i am german and if i would long for substance & reason, i would go back home. but instead i live here 9 years already and enjoy the los and it's kind and easy people. just think about the way thais are treated in germany, england, usa etc. they would have reasons to complain, we simply don't. full stop.

[kiakaha]

Sorry, it may be a dumb question, but why haven't you gone the extension route?

Exactly, thats what permit of stay extensions and re-entry permits are for.

I knew this would happen, I just knew it...

Thanks guys, you are just confirming what I tried to say: You are explaining HOW it is, not WHY it is. But admittedly the latter is a tall order...

Please do not bother to comment anymore (to me), since we are talking about different things. I have long ago just accepted these things at face value, and for me it works kinda OK. But it could have been even easier, WITH NO LOSS OF CONTROL OR INCOME for the Thai Government (but perhaps with a few redundancies here and there...)

Why it is ? Maybe because the Thai immigration system already has measures in place for extending your permit of stay internally, hence no need to do border runs.

[Khun Jean]

And the requirement you have enough funds to take care of yourself. That was the reason why the OP made the orderrun anyway.

Question now is WHY did the OP have to do that. Not enough income? Income not secure?

Both reasons for the Thai government to deny an extension. WHY, because the Thai government wants you to be able to take care of yourself. In Thailand you don't have the backup of social security. So it is in the best interest of the foreigner that this rule is applied.

Isn't that smart of the Thai government? Does this rule make you thnk a little bit longer about living in Thailand and how you will provide for yourself and your family?

Yes, Yes and Yes!

So why does the OP have a multi entry. Yep because he wants to 'abuse' this system so he can stay longer in Thailand without the need to proof income, and then complain about it. tjeez....

A multi entry is for people that have to travel in and out of the country. Even if you are married, you might need to travel.

If the OP was thruthfull (yeah i know, he could not because no income) to the Thai government he would have taken a SINGLE entry non immigrant class 'o' visa and get the extension when you have the documents ready. No hassle, very efficient.

[moe666]

Does it matter " why" you either do border runs, or get an extension of stay.

[samran]

We are just part of a Pavlovian experience..

CS

mmm, pavlova.

If a tree falls in the forest, does anybody hear???

as to why. Well, every visa I've applied for in the past (UK, Thailand) to live and work always has a two stage process. First is a prima-face visa which the embassy issues, based on evidence provided. Lets you in the country.

When you are in the country, you get an extension based on the provision of more detailed evidence that you actually meet the criteria for the visa - that you are who you say you are, and actually there for the specified purpose that you originally indicated at the emabssy. The immigration authorities incountry are usually better qualified to handle this than an embassy.

As to why it is the way it is, basic public policy text tells you that developing countries tend to have more burecratic proceedures to -basically as you say - justify jobs for usually over bloated public sector employees. Philisphically, governments are always hesitant to give up control and power of anything, hence the probable reasons for the yearly renewals. It took a Thatcher and a Regan to get government out of many aspects of life in the UK and US, and in the UK where I lived for a while, government still does its best to get back in there from an immigration perspective.

As for the 90 day reporting, probably has to do with the fact that ALL thai nationals are actually registered with the authorities, so the requirement for foreingers to register makes sense in that context. Why they don't make it simpler and issue foreigners ID cards like they do in Singapore and HK, I don't know, but it probably has alot more to do with lack of budget to do so and a tangle of old laws and legislation that needs to be unwound before you could get to that stage, and less to do with anti-foriegner sentiment that the doomsayers here like to spout day and night.

But that is my experience working with the Thai government for three years - SO I REALLY DON'T KNOW TOO MUCH...

[Naam]

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

[Lite Beer]

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

:D

[TerryLH]

Pet peeve.

It seems that ‘Why?’ might be an unanswerable question, at least by most of us.

Personally, ‘Why?’ doesn’t matter much.

I understand the OP’s frustration.

Maybe, instead of pondering the imponderable, you should be more proactive.

Come up with a reasonable solution to what you perceive as a problem. Something that addresses what you consider as the problem in a way that benefits the government without direct confrontation.

With a solution/proposal in hand, have the wife contact elected officials, immigration officials or whomever. Show that the plan is reasonable, such as more cash with very little extra work. A token amount of cash would probably not be reasonable.

I’d suggest making it voluntary by the expat. Let each individual decide if they want to continue the way it is now, or do something different that will cost them more money.

Example

For a fee of baht ???, the farang can get a new 90 day extension on a multiple entry O by visiting immigration and doing the extension in-country.

This could be done at (a) any imm office, or ( selected imm offices.

Selected offices could be the regional imm centers, or be limited some other way.

For those not wanting to spend xxx amount of baht every 90 days, they would be allowed to continue doing border runs.

People in the South, for instance, can cross into Malaysia without the cost of a visa.

Your/My/His/Her time can be better served than worrying about things you have no control over. If there is something you can do, do it. If not, stop worrying.

In this case, the OP has started the process of doing something about it by trying to find out ‘Why?’. Now it seems like the time to move on to the next step. Either stop worrying, or do something about it.

[jdinasia]

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

Hear Hear!

[PeaceBlondie]

Cosmic Surfer, you began a topic on a very personal "I, me" note, and may not have made it clear that you absolutely were not inviting answers as to how, when, where, etc. But I will try to comply with your demands.

Why did I have to make visa runs for over two years? Simple: my Thai ajarns and their school bosses were too lazy or stupid to comply with Thai law and get me a work permit. In other words, factors outside the "why" of the legislators' intent were the reason.

Why do you ask? Why do any of us need to know why? Will knowing why make us more intelligent, or happy? Most likely not.

Why, we might just as well quote Longfellow: "Theirs was not to reason why. Theirs was but to do or die."

Thailand taught me that I do not need to know why, probably will never learn why, and also that I do not ever need to answer a question. However, if the Immigration Police asks me why, I should give a good answer.

[ramirez]

Actually the question "why" is a very simple one and has been answered in this thread now numerous times very clearly, because you have the VISA that requires you to do so (which is even perfectly designed to do just that).

If you DO NOT want to make border runs, contact your local immigration office for an 'EXTENSION OF STAY' valid one year and, if granted, you'll never have to go anywhere near a border again...

Good luck

[stingray]

We made all the same mistake. Should never consider to living in a country where you don't get citizenship. I stay here for 14 years and still have the same problem. Now i planning to move with my wife to Uruguay. I think it's almost the best place for living can buy property in your name for low prices, living costs are cheap, nice beaches, buildings architecure are nice overthere (not everywhere the same d... shophouses without parkingspaces) and still can get citizenship for resident foreigners. The only problem: cars are 3 times more expensive overthere than in Thailand. But who cares. Because cars are so expensive, they fix every car again and again. you still can find cars from the 20ties on the road. Punta del este is the place to go.

[sweetchariot]

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

OK Naam, maybe you could enlighten me. I am 35, not married, and don't work. I have had a legitimate non-o visa for the last 2 years, how would you suggest I avoid the border runs?

[stevemiddie]

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

OK Naam, maybe you could enlighten me. I am 35, not married, and don't work. I have had a legitimate non-o visa for the last 2 years, how would you suggest I avoid the border runs?

Why is everyone complaining? If you want to live in another country you have to follow that countries procedures.

Get over it.

[sweetchariot]

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

OK Naam, maybe you could enlighten me. I am 35, not married, and don't work. I have had a legitimate non-o visa for the last 2 years, how would you suggest I avoid the border runs?

Why is everyone complaining? If you want to live in another country you have to follow that countries procedures.

Get over it.

I'm not complaining, I just don't appreciate being labelled as stupid.

[worldfun]

"35yo, not married, no job - how to avoid border runs"?

Why do you want to avoid the border runs?

Ah I see without any money you can't afford the busfare, visa fee's & inflated beer prices at the border (which by the way doesn't have decent hookers either & no gogo bars!)

May I dare to ask who pay your ST's then if you have no income - rich parents?

Truly baffled by these kind of questions???

Much more so than the why o why LOL

[sweetchariot]

"35yo, not married, no job - how to avoid border runs"?

Why do you want to avoid the border runs?

Ah I see without any money you can't afford the busfare, visa fee's & inflated beer prices at the border (which by the way doesn't have decent hookers either & no gogo bars!)

May I dare to ask who pay your ST's then if you have no income - rich parents?

Truly baffled by these kind of questions???

Much more so than the why o why LOL

ST's??

[palm]

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

OK Naam, maybe you could enlighten me. I am 35, not married, and don't work. I have had a legitimate non-o visa for the last 2 years, how would you suggest I avoid the border runs?

Buy an Elite card. Simple. Just 1.5m baht and you can stay in Thailand forever never having to leave again.

[sweetchariot]

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

OK Naam, maybe you could enlighten me. I am 35, not married, and don't work. I have had a legitimate non-o visa for the last 2 years, how would you suggest I avoid the border runs?

Buy an Elite card. Simple. Just 1.5m baht and you can stay in Thailand forever never having to leave again.

5 yrs and 1m I believe, I was actually warned to stay away from the Elite card due to uncertainty surrounding it's future.

[Lite Beer]

Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?, Does anyone have ANY explanation that makes sense?

stupid border runs are mandatory for people who lack the intelligence to seek alternatives. as simple as that!

OK Naam, maybe you could enlighten me. I am 35, not married, and don't work. I have had a legitimate non-o visa for the last 2 years, how would you suggest I avoid the border runs?

Buy an Elite card. Simple. Just 1.5m baht and you can stay in Thailand forever never having to leave again.

5 yrs and 1m I believe, I was actually warned to stay away from the Elite card due to uncertainty surrounding it's future.

1.5 Million.

[mgsrus]

Hi Cosmic surfer -- if with the frustrations of this meandering post you are likely even to see my belated response.

You have been here 6 years but are still frustrated by Thai ways -- I do not propose myself as your therapist but why is this?

I arrived from England some 5 months ago and still have much to learn; especially the language! I empathise with your frustration but is this not simply the price we pay for being somewhere we choose to be other than our place of birth?

Yesterday I applied for a driving licence; I had all the required documents in duplicate, even those that are not required on the handout they give you [in English mercifully] I even got the 'health check' certificate which required me to visit a 'shop with nothing to sell' and no doctor that I could see to pay 30 baht for a stamped form. Even so it still 'wasted' 2 hours of my time while I went through meaningless layers of bureaucracy [or jobs for the boys/girls as it used to be in the British civil service] and the odd critical look as I couldn't speak Thai until they gave me my licences with a pleasant smile.

Happy to pay the 'price' -- see my other post soliciting opinion on why property ownership does not contribute to your proof of solvency to see that I am on your side; just intent on keeping stress in the lives of others and not mine.

Good luck and best regards