Why Am I Making This %#@^& Stupid Border Run ?

[CosmicSurfer]

On Sunday I waste another day in my life making a Run to Cambodia for a Stupid Stamp in my passport and I can not figure out just WHY I am doing it.

I have a One-Year Multi Entry "O" Married visa.

I don't have an extension.

Why do I need to make this Run? They gave me a one-year Visa.. Not a 3 month visa.

Why can't I just do the 90 Day reporting... at least they get some information about me when I do that.

I know it's not to provide Thailand with some Visa Fee income, because I don't give even 1 satang to the Thai government for this service..

All the money goes to the Cambodian government and Cambodian Tea-Money.

It can't be for the transport cost that the bus company makes... That's chicken feed, and doesn't go to the government anyway.

The Entry form doesn't even ask for detailed contact information.. I could be anywhere.. live anywhere.

A day wasted.. and for what?

CS

[samran]

Sorry, it may be a dumb question, but why haven't you gone the extension route?

[abdulrahman]

On Sunday I waste another day in my life making a Run to Cambodia for a Stupid Stamp in my passport and I can not figure out just WHY I am doing it.

I have a One-Year Multi Entry "O" Married visa.

I don't have an extension.

Why do I need to make this Run? They gave me a one-year Visa.. Not a 3 month visa.

Why can't I just do the 90 Day reporting... at least they get some information about me when I do that.

I know it's not to provide Thailand with some Visa Fee income, because I don't give even 1 satang to the Thai government for this service..

All the money goes to the Cambodian government and Cambodian Tea-Money.

It can't be for the transport cost that the bus company makes... That's chicken feed, and doesn't go to the government anyway.

The Entry form doesn't even ask for detailed contact information.. I could be anywhere.. live anywhere.

A day wasted.. and for what?

T.i.T.

CS

[Pushit]

Yes it's stupid and time wasting but try explaining to Thai officials, they want you jumping through the hoops! that's how they keep their jobs, this is what they get paid for.

[Lite Beer]

A day wasted.. and for what?

CS

Because you have a Multi Entry Non Immigrant O Visa. Each entry valid for 90 days.

Not a 1 year extension based on your marriage.

[CosmicSurfer]

Sorry, it may be a dumb question, but why haven't you gone the extension route?

I'm planning on getting an extension closer to the expiration date of my Visa.

According to LopBuri, the extension clock starts counting from the last date of your current visa "ENTRY"... My 1 Year expires in November...

If I apply in October, based on my Wife's 2007 Tax Return of about 600K baht I should get a yearly extension until November 2009...

Saving myself another VISA Run to KL for the maximum time frame.

That will also give me 2 opportunities to renew my extension.. based on her anticipated 2008 Income, or 2009 income on a new Visa, if we have a bad year in 2008. Kow Jai???

I just hope it works and there are no screw-ups. TIT

But I'm still pissed about having to waste these days every 3 months.. and for WHAT good reason???

I just can't figure it out.

CS

[Maestro]

…They gave me a one-year Visa.. Not a 3 month visa…

They, ie the Thai consulate, gave you a “one-year” visa, ie a visa valid for an unlimited number of journeys to Thailand within one year from the date of issue, because you applied for it. So what is your complaint?

Oh, I see, you complain that this visa does not allow you to remain in Thailand for one year without having to leave the country. Apparently, you misunderstand the purpose of this visa. In fact, no visa is a permission to stay; it is only good for travel to Thailand. And when you arrive in Thailand, based on your multiple-entry non-O visa the immigration officer knows that he can grant you permission to stay for 90 days on each arrival. The visa you have is not designed for people who wish to live long-term in Thailand; it is for people who wish to visit Thailand many times within 12 months.

It is the annual extension of stay that let’s you stay long-term in Thailand.

--

Maestro

[CosmicSurfer]

Because you have a Multi Entry Non Immigrant O Visa. Each entry valid for 90 days.

Not a 1 year extension based on your marriage.

And that is exactly my question!!!!

(I know the difference.. I've had extensions based on "B" for many years.

I undersatnd extensions... and extensions aren't the issue.)

WHY does my Multi-Entry Visa valid for one year require Re-entry every 90 days??

Is there ANY reason that makes any kind of sense???

They gave me One Year's worth of Visa time.. Why make me waste my day?

I spend exactly 1 Minute in Cambodia before I am back in Thailand.

Why is it necessary??? WHY?? WHY??? WHY???

CS

[sweetchariot]

I think the OP understands the rules, as do I in a similar position.

His question was about why we have to go through this rigmarole every 3 months, what logic is there to it? If they introduced 3 monthly reporting for non-O visas they would actually make some money, and have a much better idea of where we are and what we're up to.

Immigration know full well that many people use non-o's to stay here indefinitely, and do nothing to stop it, so why not capitalise on it?

[CosmicSurfer]

…They gave me a one-year Visa.. Not a 3 month visa…

They, ie the Thai consulate, gave you a “one-year” visa, ie a visa valid for an unlimited number of journeys to Thailand within one year from the date of issue, because you applied for it. So what is your complaint?

Oh, I see, you complain that this visa does not allow you to remain in Thailand for one year without having to leave the country. Apparently, you misunderstand the purpose of this visa. In fact, no visa is a permission to stay; it is only good for travel to Thailand. And when you arrive in Thailand, based on your multiple-entry non-O visa the immigration officer knows that he can grant you permission to stay for 90 days on each arrival. The visa you have is not designed for people who wish to live long-term in Thailand; it is for people who wish to visit Thailand many times within 12 months.

It is the annual extension of stay that let’s you stay long-term in Thailand.

--

Maestro

But isn't this explanation just splitting hairs and jumping thru hoops to give their Catch 22 reasoning some validity???

They gave me the One-Year based on my Wife's written request.

What reasonably thinking person would assume that in these circumstances I wouldn't be living in Thailand for the full year of the Visa.... and this doesn't explain why I MUST exit Thailand to have the 90 day period extended on a Visa with one Year validity.

Whay can't I do it at the Bangkok Immigration office?

Like I said.. I total WASTE of time for no valid reason.

CS

[CosmicSurfer]

I think the OP understands the rules, as do I in a similar position.

His question was about why we have to go through this rigmarole every 3 months, what logic is there to it? If they introduced 3 monthly reporting for non-O visas they would actually make some money, and have a much better idea of where we are and what we're up to.

Immigration know full well that many people use non-o's to stay here indefinitely, and do nothing to stop it, so why not capitalise on it?

Exactly!!!!!!

Finally a Mr. Spock appears... "It's just not logical Captain Kirk!"

Thank You.

CS

[jdinasia]

Because the visa is for you to be able to travel into and out of Thailand for one year .. that has been explained already above! extend it now and keep extending indefinitely

The current system has you in front of Immigration officials in person every 90 days, it is that simple for people with no extension. (On an extension of stay only my passpot and the forum went)

Edited April 3, 2008 by jdinasia

[rainman]

Just make the 1-year extension. It's really not that difficult, all you need is an income letter from your Embassy. Some Embassies will just require you to sign a statement that you have that income. Some want to verify it, some don't. A try doesn't cost you anything.

[Maestro]

Immigration know full well that many people use non-o's to stay here indefinitely, and do nothing to stop it...

Immigration has no power do anything regarding the issuance of visas by consulates.

Regarding the period of permission to stay after arrival on a non-O visa, the Immigration Act says ”Not exceeding one year for other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations”. Which Ministry is in charge? The Interior Ministry, I guess, and they must have had a reason to limit the stay to 90 days, perhaps that for long-term stay a foreigner should qualify for an annual extension (retirement, marriage to a Thai wife with minimum family income, etc.)

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

On second thought, there is something that the Immigration Bureau could do about it. It could filter out the people on back-to-back entries on non-O visas and pass the list on to the Labour Division, which could then spy on these people to see if they are perhaps working illegally in Thailand. But I don’t think that this is what most of these people would want.

--

Maestro

[jdinasia]

On second thought, there is something that the Immigration Bureau could do about it. It could filter out the people on back-to-back entries on non-O visas and pass the list on to the Labour Division, which could then spy on these people to see if they are perhaps working illegally in Thailand. But I don't think that this is what most of these people would want.

--

Maestro

Phew! I am safe then!

Non-ED

Non-ED

Non-B

Non-O ....

phew!

(but I'd still be safe! my income is from the US and I have never worked here!)

Edited April 3, 2008 by jdinasia

[lingnoi34]

Look at it that way: you have a legitimate reason to be away from the missus for a day ot two...

L

[CosmicSurfer]

Look at it that way: you have a legitimate reason to be away from the missus for a day ot two...

L

I usually take her with me.

I love my wife.. She's my Best Friend and my Soulmate...

She's the only thing that makes me happy in this country anymore.

I'm tired of the BullSh*t and the Superficiality.

I long for substance and reason.

CS

[Maestro]

Forget about reason, it is relative. For substance, consider annual extensions of stay.

--

Maestro

[Tony Clifton]

Look at it that way: you have a legitimate reason to be away from the missus for a day ot two...

L

I usually take her with me.

I love my wife.. She's my Best Friend and my Soulmate...

She's the only thing that makes me happy in this country anymore.

I'm tired of the BullSh*t and the Superficiality.

I long for substance and reason.

CS

After 4 years, my last year extension was turned down after they actually f*%ed up and misled us and I've had to do visa runs for the last year. Hopefully, next week is my last run before moving out.

[torrenova]

I think the main point is that it is a bloody stupid system which does nothing to assist the Thai government either through information collection nor fee income. The only ones to benefit are the Thai generals who own the duty free shops at the border, the Cambodian government, the visa run companies and those collecting the tea money to grease the wheels.

Now if anyone could go to immigration and show some cash or an income and get stamped in for another 3 months at a time then they would happily pay for the priviledge and thus, Thailand would have loads of extra cash, they would know who was where and their financial position (up to a point) and the residents would not have to waste what is effectively 2 days of their lives each trip.

[goonerthegooner]

Nice reply Torrenova,your thinking is spot on. Why, because you think logically like a Farang. The Thai Government and their logic,extends as far as their noses.

We can only hope one day,somebody ''''Higher Up''''',might be reading these posts and think thats a good idea.We will try that. Maybe this will all happen on Feb 30th next year who knows.

[CosmicSurfer]

I think the main point is that it is a bloody stupid system which does nothing to assist the Thai government either through information collection nor fee income. The only ones to benefit are the Thai generals who own the duty free shops at the border, the Cambodian government, the visa run companies and those collecting the tea money to grease the wheels.

Now if anyone could go to immigration and show some cash or an income and get stamped in for another 3 months at a time then they would happily pay for the priviledge and thus, Thailand would have loads of extra cash, they would know who was where and their financial position (up to a point) and the residents would not have to waste what is effectively 2 days of their lives each trip.

Well another man that clearly understands what I'm bitching about.

This makes 2.

But still, I'm left in the Dark as to ... WHY????

Is there no one out there with a logical, reasonable answer???

Must I continue this exercise in uselessness without ever understanding.... WHY?

CS

[ozzydom]

But spare a thought for all those poor souls at the border crossings whose lives are enriched by our donations of scam,tea money and overcharging.

But on a serious note ,what would be a guesstimate of the total amount of cash ripped off annually at a place like Poipet, My guess is almost 1k per crossing.

[longball53098]

CS,

You're beating your head against the wall,,,,,,,,,why? Do you enjoy the pain? I think so,,

The rules are the rules,,,,,,,,,the law is the law,,,,,,,,,,and you choose to live here and so you must abide by the rules and laws or you leave and find a place where you will not need to ask,,,,,,,,,why do they do this and this and this.

I have been here over 3 years now,,,,,,,,,,,do I ask why? Yes I do,,,,,,,,,,,,but them most of the time I just smile and think oh yeh,,,,,,,,TIT.

Maybe some day the rules and laws will change,,,,,,,,,,,but until that happens we all play the game as it is written.

You can continue to beat your head until its bloody, keep making your 90 day runs and stop whining or get an extension of stay.

You mention that "love my wife.. She's my Best Friend and my Soulmate...

She's the only thing that makes me happy in this country anymore."

If you feel so strongly about this then maybe it time to take your "Soulmate" to another country where our life is better and you don't have to ask "why" so much!

Edited April 4, 2008 by longball53098

[hmj]

But still, I'm left in the Dark as to ... WHY????

WHY? Most countries in the world have the 90 days rules.

I have worked in Botswana and every 90 days I had to cross the border with South Africa or Zimbabwe.

Before Poland became a full member of the EU, Polish workers in e.g. England had to rush back to Poland every 90 days. The Polish border being the nearest border for exiting the EU.

[CosmicSurfer]

CS,

You're beating your head against the wall,,,,,,,,,why? Do you enjoy the pain? I think so,,

The rules are the rules,,,,,,,,,the law is the law,,,,,,,,,,and you choose to live here and so you must abide by the rules and laws or you leave and find a place where you will not need to ask,,,,,,,,,why do they do this and this and this.

I have been here over 3 years now,,,,,,,,,,,do I ask why? Yes I do,,,,,,,,,,,,but them most of the time I just smile and think oh yeh,,,,,,,,TIT.

Maybe some day the rules and laws will change,,,,,,,,,,,but until that happens we all play the game as it is written.

You can continue to beat your head until its bloody, keep making your 90 day runs and stop whining or get an extension of stay.

You mention that "love my wife.. She's my Best Friend and my Soulmate...

She's the only thing that makes me happy in this country anymore."

If you feel so strongly about this then maybe it time to take your "Soulmate" to another country where our life is better and you don't have to ask "why" so much!

Well, I've been living here for over 6 years... and I'm not Whining... I'm just questioning... Searching for reason... Trying to expand my knowledge... Using my Brain... Which is something that seems to get buried under a deluge of Sex, Beer and Complacency from far too many in the ExPat community, and a skill never taught too or appreciated by too many in the local citizenry.

And, if I had the money, I would pack-up my wife and leave.. we are planning and preparing for that... Do you have a spare Million Baht?

The actual reason is due to my ability to maintain a long-term Visa, Work and Health Care as I get older.. at least back Home, Health Care is taken care of... The rest is what we are trying to prepare for.

Actually, All countries have their own screw-ups... and I've learned to live with most of the ones I've encountered here.. but that doesn't mean that I have to like them.. just accept them... Nor does it mean that I shouldn't try and understand the reasoning behind them, and for most of my bitches, I can find some sort of rationalizations.. Just NOT this particular one.. For the life of me, I can't Understand WHY?

CS

[lopburi3]

1. As said - you are on a visa entry of 90 days using a visa valid for one year - it is designed for frequent or infrequent travelers. My Thai wife visits the USA on a visa valid for 10 years - but she can not stay longer than the stamp put in her passport (normally six months). For Thailand the stamp period is a set 90 days.

2. If you want to live in Thailand you should obtain an extension of stay on a yearly basis. And such a one year stay now appears to start from the end of your current permitted to stay stamp - there was a change in policy last year. So you can use the last 30 days of any entry to make the change and you will get the full year of extension.

[ricklee]

It would seem that the Thai government is doing everything possible to run all the expats out of Thailand. I live in Viet Nam (moving to Thailand in 2 weeks) and they make it very easy to stay here. 6 month visa, take it to a travel agent 3 weeks before it expires, pay $85 and you get another 6 month visa. You can do this forever. Cambodia also makes it easy. I meet people every week who used to live in Thailand and now they live here because they couldn't put up with the BS or were not welcome to stay. They spend money here and bolster the economy. Viet Nam and Cambodia are welcoming the Thailand "expat refugees" with open arms. What's up with the Thai gov't? I have tried to find some logic in their actions and cannot.

[CosmicSurfer]

But still, I'm left in the Dark as to ... WHY????

WHY? Most countries in the world have the 90 days rules.

I have worked in Botswana and every 90 days I had to cross the border with South Africa or Zimbabwe.

Before Poland became a full member of the EU, Polish workers in e.g. England had to rush back to Poland every 90 days. The Polish border being the nearest border for exiting the EU.

Do these countries give 90 day visas only or are these also Multi-Entry One-Year visas?

Then Why give One-Year Multi Entry "MARRIED" Visas in the first place???

It's not reasonable to think that married people won't be spending more than 3 Months a year together... and it is also unreasonable to expect that they would want to, or have to travel outside Thailand within every 90 Day renewal period in order to get a new Entry Stamp, thereby making Border Runs unnecessary.

Why can't this be done in Bangkok or other immigration offices for those MARRIED people staying in Thailand, but Not working here.

What is the purpose of a new Stamp every 90 days, if no additional or updated information is collected, or a new fee imposed?

I'd even find the elimination of One-Year Multi entrys and restriction to 90 Day Visa more understandable. (Unreasonable, but understandable)

I do appreciate that I save money on Multi-Entry Visas, and doing a quick Run to the Border is less of a hassle than a "Visa Run".

As long as the system exists, and I can take advantage of it, I will.

But that doesn't make it any less illogical.

There is no additional control or restrictions on Multi-Entry Visa usage.

There is no Logical Benifit to the state.

There is ONLY the hassle to the Visa Holder.

WHY is the hassle necessary?

CS