Am I Going Mad.....again

[farangconnection]

Visa experts please come to my aid. Am I going mad, is Thai immigration going mad or havn't I woke up yet and am still in dreamland.

This morning I went to renew my Marriage extension, having phoned the day before to check the rules havn't changed, and duly arrived with all the paperwork I normally provide. It is normally just a formality, as they know me there and are always very helpful ( Kap Choeng, Surin)

However this morning, a new guy, having checked all my paperwork, asked for my proof of overseas income letter from the British embassy. I said " I havn't got any income. I work in Thailand" and produced my work permit.

He then informed me I still needed a letter from the Embassy saying I had an income. Case closed. Goodbye.

My wife then said " What other options are there?"

He said that a) I could come and go every thirty days (apparantly, this is OK again now)

go to Savahnaket every three months, or

c) Have 800,000 in the bank, and he would then give me a retirement extension without a letter from the Embassy.

So: If I have an income from abroad, I can have a marriage extension, therefore a work permit, or if I have no income from abroad I can have a retirment visa and am not allowed to work. Isn't this a bit back-to-front?

Or is this perculioar to different immigration offices across the land. If so, where can I go now?

[lopburi3]

Did you present tax payment receipts? Believe that is what is normally required for local income proof. Under the new rules the income could also be your wife or combined.

1. There has not been any change to the 90 days in six month rule so you can not use 30 day entry more than 3 times. You can not work.

2. Savannakhet will not issue continuous visas from reports - you would probably have to alternate with Vientiane.

3. 800k is required to be in account for the 3 previous months so if they do not require that they are cutting some slack. You can not normally work on that.

Options:

1. If you have tax receipts they should be accepted - if not there; then in Bangkok. ((edit: expect you could obtain a notarized statement that you declare you have income from Embassy if that is all they require.))

2. Wife income of 40k per month by tax receipts - tax office is usually helpful and believe tax ranges between 2-3,000 per month.

3. Letter of pension/income from Embassy - various requirements (but having part from this method does open the retirement without 3 month in bank requirement).

4. Multi entry non immigrant O from Singapore (400k in account somewhere and normal marriage certificate/copy id card/home register) - this does allow work permit.

5. Multi entry from KL or Penang (some bank money may help but sometimes provided without).

6. Single entry non immigrant O visas from most any Consulate.

[Lite Beer]

As far as I know you have to show record of Tax payments on your income (or your Wifes) earned in Thailand.

[ralfbkk]

Honestly, to me it looks like the guy at Immigration is playing with his power a little bit.

I am on a Work Permit and a Marriage Visa and never had problems like this. If I have income here in Thailand, how can I have income somewhere else? Case is very clear. You need to present your monthly tax and social security payments, plus those of at least 4 Thai employees in your company. The article says :

"In terms of a visa, a PND 1 (personal tax submission form) and social security stating that the company has employed at least 4 Thai employees are required"

Case closed. Present these and get a new visa or do it in Bangkok if they cant figure it out.

[lopburi3]

You could easily have income inside and outside Thailand. And you don't have to have employees to have a work permit or income in Thailand. Don't have any idea what "the article says" quote is from but suspect it has something to do with extensions of stay for employment rather than marriage.

[ralfbkk]

And you don't have to have employees to have a work permit or income in Thailand. Don't have any idea what "the article says" quote is from but suspect it has something to do with extensions of stay for employment rather than marriage.

Well, he was talking about extension, isnt he? Tax Payments and Tax Receipts are essential for any Work Permit Extensions plus B Visa Extensions. If the marriage visa is not extended or extension has been refused, the work permit will expire according to the expire date

of that particular visa.

[lopburi3]

He says it is based on marriage so no work permit or B visa is involved if that is the case.

[Maestro]

Well, he was talking about extension, isnt he?

Yes, he is, but it is the “marriage extension” he is talking about, ie an annual extension for the reason to live with his Thai wife, and it is for this extension that his immigration office is giving him a hard time by requiring things that are not official, like an embassy letter for locally-earned income.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

...he article says ...

If with “article” you mean a newspaper article it will be best if you disregard anything you read in newspapers about extension of stay rules because everything I have seen so far in newspapers usually got part of it wrong.

The attached is what the Immigration Bureau’s English translation of the official rules says about the “marriage extension” (highlighting is mine)

--

Maestro

606_2549_7_17_proof_of_income.pdf

[farangconnection]

Well, he was talking about extension, isnt he?

Yes, he is, but it is the “marriage extension” he is talking about, ie an annual extension for the reason to live with his Thai wife, and it is for this extension that his immigration office is giving him a hard time by requiring things that are not official, like an embassy letter for locally-earned income.

--

Maestro

You are right, because the day before I phoned up and asked if the requirements had changed, and was told by the girl, who I know that it was still the same. This guy was new to the office and he al9so told the man before me that he could have as many 30 day stamps as he liked. He also told me, then my wife, by phone, that I could go to Savanakhet as many times as I liked. ( sorry about the mistakes, cat's doing some of the typing)

But it is also the case that my marriage visa extension is based soley on my marriage. We went through this a couple of years ago, and the immigration office asked me to just apply for that as it was so much paperwork to apply for a work visa. Also, my work permit for the next year has already been approved in principle, providing my extension is in order.

Anyway, thanks for all your advice and comments, I may just try different offices in the next month till I find one that will accept it. Good job I applied over a month in advance.

[Badbanker]

Over the years I have had experience with Suan Plu that leads me to believe that many of the officers at Suan Plu do not know immigration law!

It is our job to know it and to have copies of the correct law (in Thai and English) to show to the officers concerned.

Last year the officer we met with did not know of the new law giving people over 50 the right to stay in Thailand with their Thai child. We were adamant in a nice way that the new law said this and the officer involved had to ask a senior officer who did know. Then it was easy!

Be prepared!!!!!

BB

[farangconnection]

Latest update:

It is true they have changed the rules again. Just read it in the paper( after I had cleared it with Kap Choeng this time and was accepted) Now for a Marriage visa extension, you need 400,000 in the bank, plus a combined income of 40,000 baht a month, with tax papers to prove it.( or the proverbial letter from the Embassy)

[Lite Beer]

The official law is 40,000 a month income unless you are grandfathered, in which case you can show 400,000 in the bank if you do not have the income.

Not both

[farangconnection]

The official law is 40,000 a month income unless you are grandfathered, in which case you can show 400,000 in the bank if you do not have the income.

Not both

Sorry, but I have been informed by Immigration that now you DO need both. From Oct 1st 2007 only first timers needed both.

[jayenram]

...he article says ...

If with “article” you mean a newspaper article it will be best if you disregard anything you read in newspapers about extension of stay rules because everything I have seen so far in newspapers usually got part of it wrong.

The attached is what the Immigration Bureau’s English translation of the official rules says about the “marriage extension” (highlighting is mine)

--

Maestro

Do you know when that Order came into force, Maestro? It doesn't indicate any date on the .pdf file.

[Crossy]

Latest update:

It is true they have changed the rules again. Just read it in the paper( after I had cleared it with Kap Choeng this time and was accepted) Now for a Marriage visa extension, you need 400,000 in the bank, plus a combined income of 40,000 baht a month, with tax papers to prove it.( or the proverbial letter from the Embassy)

If kosher (and not just a local anomaly) this is scary

Not an issue for myself (apart from the bind of having 400k in a bank earning zero interest) but it's going to price a lot of marginal and not-so-marginal people out

Do you have a link to an 'official' definition of the new ruling.

[pnustedt]

...he article says ...

If with “article” you mean a newspaper article it will be best if you disregard anything you read in newspapers about extension of stay rules because everything I have seen so far in newspapers usually got part of it wrong.

The attached is what the Immigration Bureau’s English translation of the official rules says about the “marriage extension” (highlighting is mine)

--

Maestro

Do you know when that Order came into force, Maestro? It doesn't indicate any date on the .pdf file.

I suggest you go to Phu Sing Immigration Office (just a few kilometers down the road) near the Chong Sangham crossing. I picked up my visa extension based on marriage from there y'day. The requirement was Bt400K in bank - NO INCOME REQUIREMENT.

[lopburi3]

The rule is 40k per month family income - there is no requirement for bank account balance. The 400k can be used by those grandfathered who do not meet the 40k requirement. The full rule is part of Police Order 606/2006 and below. If someone can provide more recent information we are all eyes. But as far as we know 606/2006 is the law.

(6) In case of the applicant who is

married to a Thai wife, one of them

or both of them need to have the

total annual income that is

averaged out not less than 40,000

Baht per month. Except for the case

that the said foreign national has

entered Thailand before this Order

is enforced and the foreign national

has been permitted to stay in the

Kingdom by the result of having

married to a Thai wife, then if the

applicant does not have the said

income, then, the latest 3 months

records of the account book of any

Bank in Thailand with the account

name of either or both parties need

to have the amount of money not

less than 400,000 Baht.

[Lite Beer]

There is no new rule.

Probably a local office making up there own rule.

[buzzer101]

I got my O visa last month in Chiang Mai and had to prove 40K per month,no talk of 400K also

The rule is 40k per month family income - there is no requirement for bank account balance. The 400k can be used by those grandfathered who do not meet the 40k requirement. The full rule is part of Police Order 606/2006 and below. If someone can provide more recent information we are all eyes. But as far as we know 606/2006 is the law.

(6) In case of the applicant who is

married to a Thai wife, one of them

or both of them need to have the

total annual income that is

averaged out not less than 40,000

Baht per month. Except for the case

that the said foreign national has

entered Thailand before this Order

is enforced and the foreign national

has been permitted to stay in the

Kingdom by the result of having

married to a Thai wife, then if the

applicant does not have the said

income, then, the latest 3 months

records of the account book of any

Bank in Thailand with the account

name of either or both parties need

to have the amount of money not

less than 400,000 Baht.

[jayenram]

Latest update:

Just read it in the paper

Apparently from one of the Pattaya "fabricated news is better than no news" Rags.

Say no more!

[farangconnection]

Well, well. One month ago I was pulling my hair out (pun) due cto the fact that an Immigration Officer had told me

" No,no,no,no" to both marriage extension and work permit, and as I happened to overhear him telling the next punter a load of rubbish, I waited a few days then re-applied( at the same office,but different person) Now, I'm happy to say that three weeks after my second application, all is now hunky-dory, and even on the date that my work permit expired, the department of employment rung me to tell me my new permit was ready for collection.

So there you are. Don't believe all you hear. Don't believe all you see. Even if it happens to you. Just remember " If at first you don't suceed, try try again"

So now I can honestly say to all the dozens of customers, and e-mailers that contact me about visa's/immigration etc.

" I 'avn't a bloody clue"

[TAWP]

And neither does the people working there apparently.