Election Commission Rules That Chart Thai & Matchima Thipataya Parties Be Dissolved

[marshbags]

The Nation, 16-04-2008

STOPPAGE TIME

religion must not be an excuse for political chicanery

Less than three years ago, Thaksin Shinawatra and Co were hel_l-bent on suing the entire Thai media industry into bankruptcy, and they could have succeeded if they had had their way. Published on April 16, 2008

They could have put hundreds or thousands of journalists out of their jobs.

Their houses could have been seized by banks, and their cars by finance companies. Their children's future would have been far less certain.

No, this is not reopening old wounds. We are not about to debate whether the penchant for intimidating lawsuits was right or wrong, although I will come to why we should later. This article is only meant for one purpose: Thaksin's lawyer and Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama now wants to discuss Buddhism. Fine, let's talk.

He has said Article 237 of the Constitution, which seeks to punish a political party's entire leadership if an executive is guilty of electoral fraud, is against the principles of the religion. Noppadon cites a simple logic - it's injustice if someone commits a wrongdoing and make others pay for that sin.

Coming from a lawyer, Thaksin's lawyer to be more specific, it's inspiring. I imagine Noppadon throwing himself in the former prime minister's line of fire when the latter, in 2006, threatened to turn the Bangkok Post into financial ruins after one of its reporters wrote about alleged cracks on the Suvarnabhumi Airport's runways. And surely, this believer of every-man-pays-for-his-own-crime doctrine must have put up a fierce fight behind the scenes against similar legal plans.

Most of all, I imagine Noppadon was in tears when Thaksin, in 2005, warned that provinces that didn't elect Thai Rak Thai candidates would be moved down his administration's development priority list. All right, you may argue that voting for any non-TRT party shouldn't be a sin, but for those who heard that historic statement, Thaksin really made it sound like one.

If Noppadon did tell Thaksin: "Sir, there are a great number of pro-TRT voters in those provinces, and they shouldn't be made to pay for the others' sins. It's against Buddhism", we didn't hear it. Nonetheless, Noppadon deserved the benefit of the doubt here, and in fact, the Thaksin government did go after some direct sinners.

The Anti-Money Laundering Organisation singled out most vocal

government critics in its controversial investigation into journalists' bank accounts.

Here comes another cheap shot at old wounds, you may say, but Noppadon's preaching of Buddhism left me no choice. If he's taking the religion seriously, he must as well be aware that while every man should pay for his own karma, every karma will always come back to its man, too, no matter how long it takes.

He must realise that in Buddhist terms, the Supinya Klangnarong and Thai Post lawsuits are as fresh a sin as they can get.

Noppadon's definition of political sin is open for scrutiny.

To him, a party executive who committed electoral fraud is the sole sinner and there shouldn't be collective responsibility. In contrast, the logic behind Article 237 is that party executives who turned a blind eye to fraud or let it happen under their noses are also at fault, though not equally, and they must also pay.

Which logic is more Buddhist? Noppadon's encourages cowardice, irresponsibility and perhaps usage of scapegoats, whereas Article 237 stipulates that if you are the highest members of a political party, you not only have to be morally right, but also are obliged to keep watch on your peers. Article 237 says you don't need to "act" to sin, because inaction _ whether it's out of ignorance or the luxury of not having to do it yourself - is also a major guilt.

Noppadon insists that Article 237 can be politicised and abused. Again, what is the bigger sin - punishing the whole party for allowing an executive to be fraudulent, or that party ignoring or tolerating an act perceived as a root cause of national political problems? And if Article 237 is to be abused and exploited every time a party executive cheats in an election, it may be well worth the sacrifice.

These are the questions and issues that Noppadon may want to ponder if he seriously aspires to be an envoy of Buddhism. The religion in its real essence doesn't allow us to paper over our sins. It requires confronting our karma head-on and observing rules that are designed to guard against the evil.

If electoral fraud is the biggest evil because it's the main cause of a nation's crisis, what's a rule more effective than making the punishment most feared by not just the offender but also the knowing or ignorant collaborators?

Tulsathit Taptim

The Nation

Unquote.

marshbags

[marshbags]

I was going to comment on his reference to article 237 yesterday when i first became aware of it.... and i quote :-

" Says it goes against Buddhist religious tenets "

It is beyond belief what these low life politicians and in particular this individual are continually using as a justification to, on the one hand justify their self interests and................. when it is convenient, i might add.

On the other hand, they ignore the important roles of these very important constitutions when it suits their evil actions.

1) H.RIGHTS :- The purpose of assisting genuine H. Rights issues that are consistantly happening to Thailands less privileged citizens by the same officials, is quite remarkable.

2) RELIGION :- Is surely meant to give society spiritual guidance and in particualr provide the moral support for the benefit of all people and in particular Buddhism which is the backbone of Thailand and it,s citizens, no matter what their station in life is, is continually undermined

The majority of the so called elite and in particular these unscrupulous individuals that are the present so called elected government, use as a phoney showcase of their stature ( in appearance only ) and a convenience for their own ends.

They then go on to deprive society of it,s values, integrity and genuine loyalty to their chosen faith and dishonour Buddism in a way most foul, obnoxious, offensive, and obscene.

May Karma catch up with them soon, so those who are genuine followers can have their faith restored to it,s former glory and witness the true meaning of it,s scriptures, along with the true values of how they should live their lives.

May their posturing at religious ceremonies and occasions be seen for what it is, along with their double standards, regarding showcasing themselves and then going out and doing the devils work in their everyday duties to the very people they are supposed to care about.

May it eventually come back to haunt them all, big time.

marshbags

Edited April 16, 2008 by marshbags

[Tony Clifton]

Similar to the entire police force, guilty by association, and, not doing anything about it.

[sriracha john]

same, same as freely admitting to being Thaksin's nominee proxy... he doesn't even attempt to hide his conspiracies...

Samak admits party-dissolution cases prompt coalition to rush to amend charter

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej admitted Sunday that his coalition government has to rush to amend the Constitution because the Election Commission is bent on dissolving three coalition partners.

He said the government would collapse if the People Power Party, Chart Thai Party and Matchima Tipataya Party were dissolved so the coalition had to amend the charter for the future.

Speaking during his Talk in Samak's Style live programme on NBT channel, Samak said he initially planned to amend the charter during the last three months of his government's term but he now had to rush to push for the amendments because of the dissolution cases.

- The Nation (today)

[h90]

As I understand it, all the parties buy votes. How is that some get dissolved and others don't?

all people drive fast, why some get stopped by the police while other don't?

A mix of luck and how much you speed (spend).

If you have any evidence that the Democrats made something wrong, report it to PPP, I am sure they would be happy to know about it.

Edited April 20, 2008 by h90

[sriracha john]

Samak warns poll in offing

Any court ruling disbanding coalition parties would lead to dissolution of House, says PM

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej warned yesterday that House dissolution would become inevitable if the three coalition parties were disbanded for electoral fraud.

Speaking in his weekly "Talking Samak Style" programme, the premier rejected the allegation that the coalition parties were attempting to amend the Constitution for their own interest.

"Frankly speaking, there is a reason why we must think of amendments. There is a concern the parties will be dissolved," Samak said.

"We are not thinking of ourselves. We see that if the parties are dissolved, there will be a House dissolution. The coalition government can no longer stay on. There will have to be a new general election," he said.

Samak said that with 316 MPs under its control, as well as additional support from senators, the coalition government is highly likely to succeed in amending the charter.

The Election Commission recently resolved to seek a Constitution-Court ruling whether to dissolve the coalition Chart Thai and Matchima Thipataya parties for alleged involvement of their executives in electoral fraud.

The People Power Party, the main coalition partner, is also likely to face the same fate as its Deputy Leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat has been accused by the EC of electoral fraud. The EC has sought a Supreme-Court ruling whether to endorse its disqualification of Yongyuth as an MP.

Samak said that if enacted, the charter rewrite would not benefit the PPP because the electoral fraud case, which could lead to punishment by disbandment, has already been under the judicial review of the Supreme Court.

The PPP Leader said he placed his hope on the Supreme Court for launching an extensive trial that would establish that Yongyuth was, in fact, framed.

Although the ruling party remains confident that it will not be disbanded, the charter amendments will be in place to bring about the next general election in case the three coalition parties were punished by disbandment, he said.

The premier yesterday also dismissed speculation that the constitutional changes were designed to help coalition parties evade disbandment. "The rewrite of Article 237 is for the future and necessary so that there will be no more party dissolution," he said.

He said the existing charter provisions were written with bias against political parties and the leadership of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

- The Nation (today)

[Jefferson]

Seeing that the current constitution came about under military rule, I think it should have been a mega high priority to change it from the get go.

But better late than never; indeed I think it's sensible to update it before it can harm democracy, even though I'm no fan of the Chart Thai Party. I think dissolving parties is wrong, period, and I would hope common sense will prevail in having the constitution reflect that, in time.

[sriracha john]

Very appropriate to this thread, as well...

Click to watch Suthichai Yoon's video clip commenting on the desperate attempt by the ruling party, PPP, to amend certain clauses in the constitution to serve their own interests -- and have nothing to do with public interests or concern....

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2008/04/18/entry-1

................................................................................

Well said that man and eloquently put, plain and to the point, IMHO of course.

marshbags

[ray23]

Here is what I really don't understand the laws and punishment were in effect prior to the election. They had to know, the punishments had already been done in other cases. They also had to know they would be challenged. It's a sad situation they may have won anyway, but we won't ever know.

[Flatouthruthefog]

I personally do think Thai politics are great; they are like Thai soap operas, a lot of screaming, no plot resembling any reality and purely for entertainment only.

In the end a big cheque is sent to the main actors, who will then be invited to play in the next soap, under different identities but still totally recognizable to any viewer.

You WIN the Light Hearted Yet Sanity Retaining Post award on this thread so far! Congratulations, really! Humour, wisdom and pathos in just 2 sentences!!

[otherstuff1957]

The current constitution is fundamentally flawed and really should be thrown out. Unfortunately, I'd be willing to bet that the current crop of rascals in charge would write one that was even worse! :D

[soundman]

The current constitution is fundamentally flawed and really should be thrown out. Unfortunately, I'd be willing to bet that the current crop of rascals in charge would write one that was even worse! :D

I am sure the idea of writing an amendment to the constitution allowing for a one party only political system has been discussed in length.

[Khun Jean]

From what i see until now this constitution is the BEST ever.

Never seen so many things that have to do with anti-democracy, vote buying etc.. covered. Seperate bodies and not as before all under control of the government and more.

They are squirming as never before. Let's keep this one for a while so that future politicians are very aware what they can and can not do and realize they really should be working for the best of the country and not like it used to be to fill only your own families and friends pockets.

[Plus]

When PPP went into the elections they knew that Samak was on a last appeal against a conviction, they knew that if it can be proven that Samak is Thaksin's nominee, the whole party will suffer, they knew that if their execs get caught, the whole party would suffer, they knew that government ministers can't hold more than 5% shares in private companies and so on.

They knew that all these issues would eventually affect future government stability.

They have been told not to risk it - they didn't listen, and now it's somehow everybody else's fault that it finally caught up with them.

[younghusband]

When PPP went into the elections they knew that Samak was on a last appeal against a conviction, they knew that if it can be proven that Samak is Thaksin's nominee, the whole party will suffer, they knew that if their execs get caught, the whole party would suffer, they knew that government ministers can't hold more than 5% shares in private companies and so on.

They knew that all these issues would eventually affect future government stability.

They have been told not to risk it - they didn't listen, and now it's somehow everybody else's fault that it finally caught up with them.

This post is interesting because of the light it casts on the so called coup by stealth.It's very important to those who share this way of thinking to give the impression that the whole electoral process is tainted by money politics and criminality.They loathe the idea that the last election was reasonably fair and that for better or worse the current government has the mandate of the people of Thailand.This is why the coup loving elite hated the idea of foreign observers at the last election, namely that there would be an independent judgement that on the whole the results were free and fair notwithstanding some abuses.The idea is to pick off the parties in the coalition one by one so that a regime more in the bidding of the feudal elite emerges, possibly the tamed Democrats.They know another military coup will be hard to pull off and that a botched attempt could be counter productive.So they are left with manipulating the judicial process.Will they succeed? I don't know but unless one is incurably naive one should not fall for the apparently plausible musings of apologists of the old order.The irony is that even a victory for the reactionaries will be short lived.Time and gravity will determine the way this country develops.

[Plus]

What are you on about? None of the issues facing the government have absolutely nothing to do recongising election results.

[younghusband]

What are you on about? None of the issues facing the government have absolutely nothing to do recongising election results.

Don't fully understand your response.However all but the blindly obtuse should have little problem in understanding the relevance of the post

[samran]

When PPP went into the elections they knew that Samak was on a last appeal against a conviction, they knew that if it can be proven that Samak is Thaksin's nominee, the whole party will suffer, they knew that if their execs get caught, the whole party would suffer, they knew that government ministers can't hold more than 5% shares in private companies and so on.

They knew that all these issues would eventually affect future government stability.

They have been told not to risk it - they didn't listen, and now it's somehow everybody else's fault that it finally caught up with them.

This post is interesting because of the light it casts on the so called coup by stealth.It's very important to those who share this way of thinking to give the impression that the whole electoral process is tainted by money politics and criminality.They loathe the idea that the last election was reasonably fair and that for better or worse the current government has the mandate of the people of Thailand.This is why the coup loving elite hated the idea of foreign observers at the last election, namely that there would be an independent judgement that on the whole the results were free and fair notwithstanding some abuses.The idea is to pick off the parties in the coalition one by one so that a regime more in the bidding of the feudal elite emerges, possibly the tamed Democrats.They know another military coup will be hard to pull off and that a botched attempt could be counter productive.So they are left with manipulating the judicial process.Will they succeed? I don't know but unless one is incurably naive one should not fall for the apparently plausible musings of apologists of the old order.The irony is that even a victory for the reactionaries will be short lived.Time and gravity will determine the way this country develops.

valid points all. But how then do you reconcile that with the independent bodies that were set up in the meantime such as the EC? Surely if your aim is to maintain a feudal elite, the last thing you would want is any semblance of a check and balance?

[Plus]

YH, I don't understand what electoral mandate has got to do with Samak's conviction, or Surapongs indictment, or Yongyuth's vote buying.

[sriracha john]

The EC's report on party dissolution to reach prosecutors

The Election Commission expects tomorrow for its report to reach the Office of the Attorney General recommending the judicial review on whether to disband two coalition parties, Chart Thai and Matchima Thipataya, on grounds for electoral fraud committed by party executives.

"I have given my signature endorsing the report on party dissolution," EC Chairman Apichart Sukagganond said on Wednesday in his capacity as the Political Party Registrar.

The prosecution review is expected to last 30 days before the case would reach the Constitution Court.

- The Nation (today)

[Thai at Heart]

When PPP went into the elections they knew that Samak was on a last appeal against a conviction, they knew that if it can be proven that Samak is Thaksin's nominee, the whole party will suffer, they knew that if their execs get caught, the whole party would suffer, they knew that government ministers can't hold more than 5% shares in private companies and so on.

They knew that all these issues would eventually affect future government stability.

They have been told not to risk it - they didn't listen, and now it's somehow everybody else's fault that it finally caught up with them.

This post is interesting because of the light it casts on the so called coup by stealth.It's very important to those who share this way of thinking to give the impression that the whole electoral process is tainted by money politics and criminality.They loathe the idea that the last election was reasonably fair and that for better or worse the current government has the mandate of the people of Thailand.This is why the coup loving elite hated the idea of foreign observers at the last election, namely that there would be an independent judgement that on the whole the results were free and fair notwithstanding some abuses.The idea is to pick off the parties in the coalition one by one so that a regime more in the bidding of the feudal elite emerges, possibly the tamed Democrats.They know another military coup will be hard to pull off and that a botched attempt could be counter productive.So they are left with manipulating the judicial process.Will they succeed? I don't know but unless one is incurably naive one should not fall for the apparently plausible musings of apologists of the old order.The irony is that even a victory for the reactionaries will be short lived.Time and gravity will determine the way this country develops.

valid points all. But how then do you reconcile that with the independent bodies that were set up in the meantime such as the EC? Surely if your aim is to maintain a feudal elite, the last thing you would want is any semblance of a check and balance?

Feudal elite or not, until parties stop buying votes, this country will not get anywhere. This constitution is set up to create weaker govt which is not a good thing in the very very long run. But then again, what are they to do if this bunch of cronies is going to persist in spreading the cash around to win? This current coalition is so weak and corrupt that they have achieved absolutely nothing in terms of policy anyway.

The best thing may actually be that there is another election and start the whole process again and again and again until there is truly a governement that won't have spent a penny to get into power. Will it happen, probably not, but amending these types of rules will be Thailand's short/medium term detriment. There may be feudal elites, but the bunch of cronies in there right now (and a few of their son's) are not the governement that this country needs in order to move it forward.

[Tony Clifton]

What they need to start doing is imprisoning scumbags instead of constantly letting them out on bail or giving ridiculous and outdated maximum fines of 10 000 baht.

[samran]

When PPP went into the elections they knew that Samak was on a last appeal against a conviction, they knew that if it can be proven that Samak is Thaksin's nominee, the whole party will suffer, they knew that if their execs get caught, the whole party would suffer, they knew that government ministers can't hold more than 5% shares in private companies and so on.

They knew that all these issues would eventually affect future government stability.

They have been told not to risk it - they didn't listen, and now it's somehow everybody else's fault that it finally caught up with them.

This post is interesting because of the light it casts on the so called coup by stealth.It's very important to those who share this way of thinking to give the impression that the whole electoral process is tainted by money politics and criminality.They loathe the idea that the last election was reasonably fair and that for better or worse the current government has the mandate of the people of Thailand.This is why the coup loving elite hated the idea of foreign observers at the last election, namely that there would be an independent judgement that on the whole the results were free and fair notwithstanding some abuses.The idea is to pick off the parties in the coalition one by one so that a regime more in the bidding of the feudal elite emerges, possibly the tamed Democrats.They know another military coup will be hard to pull off and that a botched attempt could be counter productive.So they are left with manipulating the judicial process.Will they succeed? I don't know but unless one is incurably naive one should not fall for the apparently plausible musings of apologists of the old order.The irony is that even a victory for the reactionaries will be short lived.Time and gravity will determine the way this country develops.

valid points all. But how then do you reconcile that with the independent bodies that were set up in the meantime such as the EC? Surely if your aim is to maintain a feudal elite, the last thing you would want is any semblance of a check and balance?

Feudal elite or not, until parties stop buying votes, this country will not get anywhere. This constitution is set up to create weaker govt which is not a good thing in the very very long run. But then again, what are they to do if this bunch of cronies is going to persist in spreading the cash around to win? This current coalition is so weak and corrupt that they have achieved absolutely nothing in terms of policy anyway.

The best thing may actually be that there is another election and start the whole process again and again and again until there is truly a governement that won't have spent a penny to get into power. Will it happen, probably not, but amending these types of rules will be Thailand's short/medium term detriment. There may be feudal elites, but the bunch of cronies in there right now (and a few of their son's) are not the governement that this country needs in order to move it forward.

I hear you , I hear you. I've often wondered what would happen to a cantidate who said "take their money, but vote for me!"

In terms of making things right however, you could argue that this constitution also makes it possible to have independent checks and balances over the system. The Attoerny General and the Election commission are both independent bodies under this charter, meaning they can penalise those who do pay for votes etc.

It is the first step to an better things IMHO.

[jstumbo]

I don't understand the idea on changing the constitution. It was voted on by the people and ratified. Now the people in power can just change it however they want without having to go back to the people for another vote on the changes? That means that whoever is in power could change the constitution however they wanted without having to get approval. That is just a recipe for chaos.

[RubbaJohnny]

This could get very interesting.

The race is on between dissolving the parties, changing the constitution and the third favourite another coup.

Place your bets.

If only wagering were permitted

[soundman]

I don't understand the idea on changing the constitution. It was voted on by the people and ratified. Now the people in power can just change it however they want without having to go back to the people for another vote on the changes? That means that whoever is in power could change the constitution however they wanted without having to get approval. That is just a recipe for chaos.

Its not like they were given a multiple choice.

The "people" had a new constitution, writtten by a few, shoved down their throuts. The unfortunate thing is that if the "people" had any real say in a new constitution, there would probably be even more controls on the politicians and their parties....

Soundman.

[Tony Clifton]

Problem is the rewrite is proposed by Thai Rak Thai service pack 2, still as full of bugs as version 1. They have and still prove that their breed is always above the law, do you really think the rewrite will be done fairly? No.

[Old Man River]

I don't understand the idea on changing the constitution. It was voted on by the people and ratified. Now the people in power can just change it however they want without having to go back to the people for another vote on the changes? That means that whoever is in power could change the constitution however they wanted without having to get approval. That is just a recipe for chaos.

I find it interesting how quickly people forget that the previous referendum to change the constitution was fraught with voting irregularities (as reported by the independent election monitors). All has been quickly forgotten and it was simply a matter of the ends justifying the means.

For the current group, instead of a business as usual public referendum they have decided to skip the whole process altogether, saving money needed to ensure what would be a forgone conclusion anyway, given their upcountry voting base. The stability in all this is that it is never stable, but is always interesting.

[sriracha john]

As a timely reminder of what we had before with Thaksin....

Does anyone remember these shady characters?

as a follow-up to the closed thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76815

EC Guilty!, All three now in jail!

Appeals Court Confirms Former ECs' Jail Terms

The Appeals Court has come to a verdict on the case involving three former Election Commissioners who were earlier found guilty of abuse of power. The Appeals Court upheld the original guilty verdict for a four year jail term and strip them of their political rights for ten years.

Dating back to July 25th, 2006, the Thai Criminal Court sentenced former Election Commissioners Police General Wasana Permlap, Prinya Nakchutree, and Weerachai Naewboonien to four-year jail terms and revoked their political rights for 10 years.

Democrat Party Deputy Leader Thavorn Senniam, plaintiff in the case, alleged that the three Election Commissioners abused their power when they allowed candidates from the now defunct Thai Rak Thai Party to field in the April 23rd 2006 by-elections after being disqualified in other constituencies.

The Criminal Court found them guilty according to Criminal Law Article 157 and and Articles 24 and 42 of the 1998 Election Commission Act.

The court read its appeals verdict this morning saying that the jail term was justified because high standing government officials such as election commissioners should set a good example for the society.

By favoring the Thai Rak Thai Party, the commissioners were in severe violation of the law and moral standards.

The court, therefore, stands by the original guilty verdict of four year jail terms and to strip them of their political rights for 10 years.

Under Thai law, defendants can plead their cases to the Supreme Court if they do not agree with the Appeals Court’s decision.

- Thailand Outlook / 24-04-08

===========================================================================

Time to send them back to prison... even if it is "stressful"....

[Plus]

The junta set National Assembly that selected Constitution Drafting Commission. Everyone knew who was selected, and why, and the whole process was covered in the media. Then people voted on it.

"Democratic" government is going to present the first draft in a couple of weeks.

Who wrote it? Anyone knows?

"Democratic" government already ruled out any people participation or scrutiny.

Eventually there will be mass demonstrations outside the parlament while politicians, barricaded inside, will vote on what is best for the people, and two sides will never talk to each other during the whole process.