Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[pop3]

Why close it theres no real abuse here, I think the answers to the OP's question are not what he wants to hear, but they are how most of us feel !

[Mosha]

I'd like to hear the follow-up on this prior to any thread closure consideration... he is the OP, afterall....

I did e-mail the Ministry of Labour, and I am awaiting a reply.

.... and I am still waiting. Perhaps I'll get SWMBO to phone the local labour office on monday.

[ray23]

Well I think the op has a lot to think about. Even the more pleasant aspects such as dragging drunks back to the hotel, doesn't sound real attractive drunks are not a lot of fun unless yuor one of them

I get the impression that Tourist cops are very different in Pattaya then here in Udon. But, our tourist flow isn't 1% of what you have there. The most I have ever heard of these guys doing was to try to promote some sideline business. No shake downs at all. If they want to work off duty and pick up some extra money I see no problem with that.

Some guys use them to translate documents Thai to English at thier office during normal working hours and were never charged a baht. I wouldn't feel all that comfortable with that and we have services here, They have a few officers that are really proficient in other languages but only a few.

Here if your not involved in a illagal activity you won't have trouble with cops Tourist or otherwise.

On the work permit side sounds to me like the guy wants to give back to his community. I hope he is allowed to do that. It's sad there are a lot of old geesers runniong around here with some great talent at different things. Who would like to be involved for an activity, but that is not to be.

I used to a bit once organized an outing for a local orphanage. But, when I saw people getting nailed for work permits after the Tsunami, that stopped that for me. Nothing that I did was as worhwhile a that adn people weer getting in trouble, so I stopped all together. The problem I see is it isn't going to be anyhting to worry about until you tick of the wrong person and you have no defence.

In a way I can understand if you are taking a job away from someone who needs it and can get paid for it. Other then that it would be nice to see a volunteer category added to the permits.

Heck I would take my turn at maning an information booth or something like that. But I retired from cop shop I know what can happen, even in the best of circumstances, not for me.

Whatever the Op chooses I wish him nohtign but the best.

[Cuban]

> WP not required but available if needed and qualified. Cuban's can't qualify.

It would seem that you don't know Thai Law.

You don't know me - but you have clearly identified the limit of your knowledge, you don't know who/what I know.

Sit by the van - play with drunks - ponder the excitment in your life.

You have my pity.

[klikster]

I bet the Tourist Police really love these guys. Not only do they not have to learn english, they also have free workers who they don't have to split their "takings" with. I wonder how it feels to work for one of the most corrupt group of scumbags on the face of the planet.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure these guys are of duty Tourist Police SCAMMING tourists.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21533131@N06/...57604252151932/

What makes you "pretty sure" ..? Sometimes it's a good idea to have some evidence before making a slanderous remark .. especially in public.

[klikster]

I read dozens .. nay, hundreds of, 'why don't they ... ' posts about the Thai authority .. then the the same experts on humanity and pedantic discontent come around and trash folks who are at least trying. Better you crawl back inside that bottle of Leo.

[PadThaiGuy]

I bet the Tourist Police really love these guys. Not only do they not have to learn english, they also have free workers who they don't have to split their "takings" with. I wonder how it feels to work for one of the most corrupt group of scumbags on the face of the planet.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure these guys are of duty Tourist Police SCAMMING tourists.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21533131@N06/...57604252151932/

What makes you "pretty sure" ..? Sometimes it's a good idea to have some evidence before making a slanderous remark .. especially in public.

Hey, look at the pictures. They sure look like cops to me. What do you think that gang is doing there, day after day?

One thing for sure, the local cops are letting it happen.

Edited April 19, 2008 by PadThaiGuy

[Tomkagai]

> WP not required but available if needed and qualified. Cuban's can't qualify.

It would seem that you don't know Thai Law.

You don't know me - but you have clearly identified the limit of your knowledge, you don't know who/what I know.

Sit by the van - play with drunks - ponder the excitment in your life.

You have my pity.

Cuban...get a sense of humour mate...he was taking the p*ss....go and have a beer

[Donnyboy]

as much respect as these guys in blue....

[klikster]

I bet the Tourist Police really love these guys. Not only do they not have to learn english, they also have free workers who they don't have to split their "takings" with. I wonder how it feels to work for one of the most corrupt group of scumbags on the face of the planet.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure these guys are of duty Tourist Police SCAMMING tourists.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21533131@N06/...57604252151932/

What makes you "pretty sure" ..? Sometimes it's a good idea to have some evidence before making a slanderous remark .. especially in public.

Hey, look at the pictures. They sure look like cops to me. What do you think that gang is doing there, day after day?

One thing for sure, the local cops are letting it happen.

I did look. Selective expectations are such a wonderful trait for those with an agenda.

What "they" are doing there is not the issue I addressed at all. Whether or not they are Tourist Police is.

So much for responsible public commentary.

[PadThaiGuy]

I bet the Tourist Police really love these guys. Not only do they not have to learn english, they also have free workers who they don't have to split their "takings" with. I wonder how it feels to work for one of the most corrupt group of scumbags on the face of the planet.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure these guys are of duty Tourist Police SCAMMING tourists.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21533131@N06/...57604252151932/

What makes you "pretty sure" ..? Sometimes it's a good idea to have some evidence before making a slanderous remark .. especially in public.

Hey, look at the pictures. They sure look like cops to me. What do you think that gang is doing there, day after day?

One thing for sure, the local cops are letting it happen.

I did look. Selective expectations are such a wonderful trait for those with an agenda.

What "they" are doing there is not the issue I addressed at all. Whether or not they are Tourist Police is.

So much for responsible public commentary.

People line up, every day at the Tourist Police office, filling out the standard the gem scam form.

It's big money.

Now what do you think is going thru the typical Thai cops mind?

(a) I want to help this tourist.

( I want a piece of this scam.

Edited April 19, 2008 by PadThaiGuy

[klikster]

I bet the Tourist Police really love these guys. Not only do they not have to learn english, they also have free workers who they don't have to split their "takings" with. I wonder how it feels to work for one of the most corrupt group of scumbags on the face of the planet.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure these guys are of duty Tourist Police SCAMMING tourists.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21533131@N06/...57604252151932/

What makes you "pretty sure" ..? Sometimes it's a good idea to have some evidence before making a slanderous remark .. especially in public.

Hey, look at the pictures. They sure look like cops to me. What do you think that gang is doing there, day after day?

One thing for sure, the local cops are letting it happen.

I did look. Selective expectations are such a wonderful trait for those with an agenda.

What "they" are doing there is not the issue I addressed at all. Whether or not they are Tourist Police is.

So much for responsible public commentary.

People line up, every day at the Tourist Police office, filling out the standard the gem scam form.

It's big money.

Now what do you think is going thru the typical Thai cops mind?

(a) I want to help this tourist.

( I want a piece of this scam.

You went from irresponsible to just plain silly.

My guess would be ..

[c] This is so dam_n boring. They write about the gem scam on dam_n near every web site about Thailand. But these stupid farangs never learn!

FYI >> Google >> "gem scam" +thailand 3,000+ results .. and that's only in English.

Edited April 19, 2008 by klikster

[chiang mai]

Well Mosha, you may not get the answers you were looking for here but what we all will get is a much better understanding of the types of farangs that live here presently. I reckon that farangs who don't support the police and their assistants in Thailand are probably the same folks that do the same in their home country and frankly neither country wants or needs them - looks like Thai Immigration has yet more work to do. Stay on track mate.

[Ulysses G.]

A LARGE number of Thai police are closer to being Mafia than public servants. Comparing them to police back home might be rather naive.

[chiang mai]

A LARGE number of Thai police are closer to being Mafia than public servants. Comparing them to police back home might be rather naive.

A sweeping statement that it entirely subjective and difficult to quantify or substantiate. I for one have never had a single problem with the Thai police in all the years I have been here - but I have heard lots of second third and fourth hand stories about people who have had problems but that is hardly factual information, more likely bar stool gossip.

[JimsKnight]

I'snt that working, even though it is not for pay? The Law states you req a work permit. If the Tourist police cannot provide one I would steer clear, those farang tourist police are actually breaking the law themselves right? Imagine you collar the wrong guy one night, the shit hits the fan (pardon my phrase) and then YOU are the one in the wrong. In the eyes of Thai Law, your a farang and that is all that matters.

If there was a bona-fide program/course in Thailand where expats could go on (like the TEFL say) and become certified Auxillary Police THAT would be good.

It could be endorsed by the government and have a selection process resulting in a paid job via the WP system.

They could work with regular thai police not just tourist ones.

<POST EDITED>

Edited April 19, 2008 by JimsKnight

[PadThaiGuy]

Well Mosha, you may not get the answers you were looking for here but what we all will get is a much better understanding of the types of farangs that live here presently. I reckon that farangs who don't support the police and their assistants in Thailand are probably the same folks that do the same in their home country and frankly neither country wants or needs them - looks like Thai Immigration has yet more work to do. Stay on track mate.

Hey, don't belive us. Just walk out your door and ask the first ten Thais their opinion of the Police.

I bet 100% will say they have morphed into a viscious gang of mafia punks.

[chiang mai]

Well Mosha, you may not get the answers you were looking for here but what we all will get is a much better understanding of the types of farangs that live here presently. I reckon that farangs who don't support the police and their assistants in Thailand are probably the same folks that do the same in their home country and frankly neither country wants or needs them - looks like Thai Immigration has yet more work to do. Stay on track mate.

Hey, don't belive us. Just walk out your door and ask the first ten Thais their opinion of the Police.

I bet 100% will say they have morphed into a viscious gang of mafia punks.

That will no doubt be their responses and it is indeed possible that it is true and deserved. But two things: as long as they continue to treat me and my family fairly I shall ignore their reputation, and, their reputation alone is no reason why farangs should not join them as volunteers to help improve their performance/reputation and to improve communication and understanding with the public. I reckon people that join as volunteer police etc are for the most part, trying to solve a problem rather than create or add to an existing one. Sure there will be some wanabees and misfits in there but the majority are trying to help, I believe that.

[PadThaiGuy]

Agreed. Farangs volunteering to help out should be thanked.

[aerosboy]

Opinions needed please. I have just had the tourist police up trying to recruit me. It was them car/badges etc, so discount a wind up. They are looking for Farangs with English language skills to join the police in assisting tourists. They implied it was voluntary work. Now I understand that volunteers in Phuket at the time of the tsunami had problems because they had the wrong visa. The guys they have shown me from Chumpon appear to be living here on the same basis as me, that is 12 month extension based on a Thai family. I told them before I commited myself to this I would want to hear immigrations opinion. They implied that it was not a visa issue, but they would wouldn't they. If this is is the wrong forum please move it, but I did not know where to post it, as I feel it is just seeking opinions.

You want to hear from the Labor Ministry, not Immigrations, as they are the ones in charge of work permits.

Despite repeated requests, not once have Farang Volunteer Police produced either the required Work Permit or Work Permit Exemption Letter.

I seriously doubt you get a visa, teh key word is"volunteer"meaning you get no money.

It be cool to beat up on some bar girls if they screw over a farang.

I saw a farang woman working in the new airport behind the counter, thought maybe she was married to a Thai man.

If a thai can do the job we can't: look under work permits, they should allow us we can assist people better.

[chiang mai]

It be cool to beat up on some bar girls if they screw over a farang.

There are planes leaving for your home country all the time, try catching one.

[Kerryd]

It be cool to beat up on some bar girls if they screw over a farang.

What would be even cooler is if people with this kind of attitude would take up balcony jumping as a sport.

Remember, "real" men start on the 12th floor or higher. Have a nice trip.

[sriracha john]

It be cool to beat up on some bar girls if they screw over a farang.

What would be even cooler is if people with this kind of attitude would take up balcony jumping as a sport.

Remember, "real" men start on the 12th floor or higher. Have a nice trip.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.as...1&display=1

[astral]

Isn't that working, even though it is not for pay? The Law states you req a work permit.

That is my take on the law as well.

Remember it is the Labour Dept that issues and checks work permits,

so your Tourist Police friends may not be able to help if trouble looms............

[Kerryd]

Isn't that working, even though it is not for pay? The Law states you req a work permit.

That is my take on the law as well.

Remember it is the Labour Dept that issues and checks work permits,

so your Tourist Police friends may not be able to help if trouble looms............

I think that is correct as well.

Remembering that not long after the Tsunami, Thailand created a bit of a flap by telling all the "volunteers" still there (3 months later ?) that they would have to get work permits, even if they were doing "voluntary" (unpaid) work.

Primarily because the work they were doing was (in large part) stuff that locals could be doing (for wages), so in effect, they were taking jobs away from Thais.

There are board members here that do volunteer work for various charities around the area. Do they have/need work permits ? I seem to recall that being discussed some time ago in a different topic. After all, if you need a WP to do charity work, can't see how you wouldn't need one to do (voluntary) Police work.

[Mosha]

Which going back to the bloke who made the OP, oops that was me, wanted to clear up all along. i.e. voluntary/unpaid work is still work and therefore requires a work permit. I would like to help but my arse better be covered first.

[HarryHacker]

Which going back to the bloke who made the OP, oops that was me, wanted to clear up all along. i.e. voluntary/unpaid work is still work and therefore requires a work permit. I would like to help but my arse better be covered first.

One of the issues regarding obtaining a Work Permit is that you are qualified to actually do the job in question, what amazes me is that people think they can skirt around this simple demand. This is why I have come to the conclusion that all of these volunteers in question would never get a WP on that basis alone. All of those Police and Tourist Police volunteers that are members of this forum with the exception of WCR and maybe that Bert fellow who was ex-military would never quality for a WP, I would expect.

This leaves me to ponder the question of conflicted interests.

[LivinLOS]

Baht bus drivers actually show more respect than a few farangs on this board do and even refuse to accept b5 or b10 when we are in uniform.

So you do admit to accepting 'favours' from a section of Pattaya's society that does have many members with an established reputation of overcharging tourists and using threats of violence*. Even if it is a 10 Baht 'fare' once a week, when a dispute occurs between a BB driver that you know and a tourist that you do not - will you ignore the fact that you are indebted to one party and not the other?

Those of us that live here under Thai law with WPs and pay taxes understand the 'system' even if you farang TPV try to convince yourselves that you are legally and morally without sin, you are used and abused by your masters that you hail to, the fact that you are not prepared to admit that many do not have a WP yet are clearly working is the first step on that downward slope.

My WP states that a 1,000 Baht fine is due if I fail to produce it on demand at my place of work, if a selection of TV members were to visit 'the van' one night, would WPs that include provision for assisting police in their duties in relation to tourists be availible for inspection?

A yes or no answer would be fine.

No.

WP not required but available if needed and qualified. Cuban's can't qualify.

According to Thai law it IS required (a WP exemption letter is issued if it is not required)..

And despite many people claiming a WP can be issued.. No one has as yet got one that I have heard of and I have asked around.

Your lack of one speaks volumes.

[LivinLOS]

You criticize them for working as police assistants and yet you act like you yourselves want to be immigration police (you're not police yourselves, why worry about someone else's work permit?). Seriously, you want to go check their work permits and you're a foreigner as well? Sorry, you don't havethe authority to do that.

Because hypocrisy stinks !! And to have an entire police force breaking the law every second they work is exactly that.

As to having the authority.. I have as much authority to enforce the law as they do !!

by trying to tear them down for wearing the uniform they were given.

That they had to buy actually !! LOL

[LivinLOS]

Why close it theres no real abuse here, I think the answers to the OP's question are not what he wants to hear, but they are how most of us feel !

But isnt that exactly the 'control' mindset..