Thai Communication Problem

[Samuian]

After 18 years, I am sure it's like back home... some understand, some listen and don't understand but prefer to die before they would admit or ask for more explanations, instructions, some are simply geniuses in improvisations, some are big pretenders, some are simply undereducated, some will ever nod and say YES! But are honorable human beings... trying very hard as anyone else... to go along and not to be a nuisance and pester others just for the fun of it!

[jstumbo]

I often meet problems with the correct response or even any response. The one I like the best is that they ( shop assistants/waiters) you know, "service" people (service not being the operative word) just smile walk away and forget everything. Actually I don't believe they froget they just don't wanna. Two recent examples 1. MK suki, I order a large heineken from a staff member: smile , walk away, nothing happens. I repeat this process with a different staff member yeah you guessed it exactly the same. So, I located the manager and ordered my bottle directly from her. Problem solved. 2. Yesterday, Oishi, I got up to get some food came back to the table noticed a staff member clearing it and the food that was on the table I asked her why did she take my food away: Zero response , no apology, nothin, she just walked away. Her friend noticed what had happened, took my number and about 10 minutes later my food was re-delivered to the table.

Seriously, yes their mostly nice people and all that yada, yada , yada, BUT really the lights are on with many of these people but thereis definately no one home. However, as long as they intend to live and stay in Thailand and not want to go overseas to earn a living they will be OK.

The problem is there is no training , no supervision, no responsibility, no correction buy a superior because on many occassions the surerior is just as bad , pay peanuts get monkeys. These people would absolutely not survive outside of Thailand.

When you were dealing with these Thai service people, were you speaking in Thai? Maybe they did not understand English, after all, we are in Thailand.

[Tod Daniels]

Interesting comment about thais saying 'ครับ', after someone speaks to them even if no further effort on their part is forthcoming. The polyglot Stuart Jay Raj has an interesting bit about the origin of the word in use now.

In his Pod Cast series on Radio Bangkok he has a topic entitled: What does - Khrap - and - Kha - really mean?" Here's the link to his series; http://www.radiobangkok.net/podcasts/ctf/index.php?start=12

If what he says is true, (and I have no reason to doubt him), it certainly makes sense about the usage and connotation of the word. Thai Language dot com also lists ขอรับ as a "very formal polite particle used by men". 'ครับ' may very well be a contraction of this term which evolved over time and has come to denote someone heard you; even if, they didn't understand, don't know or can't help with your statement/question.

Edited April 26, 2008 by tod-daniels

[jstumbo]

Straight communication is next to impossible here, because of little or no English skills or their incliniation to tell you what they think you want to hear or to tell you something that will not diminish their stature in a conversation, ie the so-called face-saving.

Straight communication is next to impossible here, because of little of no Thai skills and the refusal of farang to learn the language of their adopted home.

[LivinLOS]

Straight communication is next to impossible here, because of little or no English skills or their incliniation to tell you what they think you want to hear or to tell you something that will not diminish their stature in a conversation, ie the so-called face-saving.

Or because of little or no Thai skills ?

At least that's my main problem...

Thats not the full story.. This happens to my TGF all the time too.. Either miscommunication, a lack of clarity, an inability to get exacts and precise answers (road directions are vaguely down that way somewhere on the left perhaps, not go 200m and its on the left immediately before the big school Etc.. They dont seem to value precision in statements IMO)..

In actual fact even with my bad language skills its often on my shoulders to go and define exact items as I will keep pushing until I get it as an absolute statement.

And get this, my g/f sometimes even can't get the store/hotel/whatever staff to understand. And she is Thai. She has walked out of Homepro and similar stores in disgust a couple of times, due to the lack of understanding from the staff. Now how would I do in comparison?

Exactly my point... Thai on Thai this kind of thing comes up. Its a social or language thing to have less absolute statements I think.

[onnut]

I've been in this bizarre land for three years and lost hope of ever understanding the asian mind until I read two books: Working with the Thais and Wandering Through Thai Culture. Please get a hold of these, read and I'm sure much of the intensity of your frustration and amazement at Thai behavior will be reduced. I'm afraid though that once you understand the basic tenents this culture is based on, you may find it even less acceptable than before. I have tried to accept this culture but I cannot lie to myself anymore... I cannot accept this culture on principle. Hope you find your way in this place.

mate, if you ever came to my country and said these things about my culture, I garantee that you would get a smack on that big mouth of yours.

you are a guest here, behave yourself. or go home!

I am amazed that you have stayed alive here for 3 years.

[Tod Daniels]

Quite the witty come backs.....errrr NOT

The phrase "accept it or leave it" and its sister phrase 'you are a guest here behave yourself or go home' are all too often thrown about by the "wanna-b-thai" foreigners living here.

I am sorry to inform you 'mate' that good behavior does not hinge on mindlessly embracing the culture of the country one lives in. Just as a foreigner acting like a thai doesn't make them more thai or even more accepted by thais.

IF a country's cultural brainwashing runs counter to one's own cultural upbringing it can be detrimental to change. I have absolutely NO desire to be 'more thai', just as I am sure most thais have no desire to be 'more American'. That being said; I do accept their cultural differences with its myriad of short comings, but that is NOT the same as unquestioningly embracing it to be more like them. I accept it and try to understand it so I can coexist with them with minimum frustration to myself, not for any tolerance towards them. Their country their rules, I understand that too well.. Rules are tools; never forget that. I use their societal and cultural rules against them to achieve my goals. It's win/win.

Given the fact T-I-F-T, one has to be aware that foreigners who are in the 'wanna-b-thai' mindset eventually lower their expectations until they expect nothing at all. Now sometimes this results in those expectations (which were zero) being exceeded, but not often. There is nothing wrong with expecting real or factual answers to questions asked. Just as there is nothing wrong with talking about the endless idiosyncratic behavior one witnesses here every single day.

Going on 4 years here now, I refuse to accept moronic answers from thais to questions I ask them IN THAI.

Never the less 'mate', we are NOT in your country, instead we are trying to coexist with the diminutive inhabitants in THIS country. That could be why people are seeking advice about the strange quirky ways the natives have here. Oh and it's probably why we are posting on the Thai forum as well...

[slapout]

I have seen this problem between 2 Thais, 1 asking question, the other may answer or may not. Same between farong and Thai, but farong to farong even using different language somehow seem to hash it out. My oberservations point to Thais may start talking before the first person has even finished the question or they appear to be thinking about what will be said next or what answer to give and then realize they were not listening to what was being said, thus dont know what to say. A simple answer to a complex question.

[pampal]

it seems that many times the Thai ppl have problems communicating to each other

[onnut]

Quite the witty come backs.....errrr NOT

The phrase "accept it or leave it" and its sister phrase 'you are a guest here behave yourself or go home' are all too often thrown about by the "wanna-b-thai" foreigners living here.

I am sorry to inform you 'mate' that good behavior does not hinge on mindlessly embracing the culture of the country one lives in. Just as a foreigner acting like a thai doesn't make them more thai or even more accepted by thais.

IF a country's cultural brainwashing runs counter to one's own cultural upbringing it can be detrimental to change. I have absolutely NO desire to be 'more thai', just as I am sure most thais have no desire to be 'more American'. That being said; I do accept their cultural differences with its myriad of short comings, but that is NOT the same as unquestioningly embracing it to be more like them. I accept it and try to understand it so I can coexist with them with minimum frustration to myself, not for any tolerance towards them. Their country their rules, I understand that too well.. Rules are tools; never forget that. I use their societal and cultural rules against them to achieve my goals. It's win/win.

Given the fact T-I-F-T, one has to be aware that foreigners who are in the 'wanna-b-thai' mindset eventually lower their expectations until they expect nothing at all. Now sometimes this results in those expectations (which were zero) being exceeded, but not often. There is nothing wrong with expecting real or factual answers to questions asked. Just as there is nothing wrong with talking about the endless idiosyncratic behavior one witnesses here every single day.

Going on 4 years here now, I refuse to accept moronic answers from thais to questions I ask them IN THAI.

Never the less 'mate', we are NOT in your country, instead we are trying to coexist with the diminutive inhabitants in THIS country. That could be why people are seeking advice about the strange quirky ways the natives have here. Oh and it's probably why we are posting on the Thai forum as well...

yeah, you are right. very sorry.

i would feel the same about the US of A......... all these fat loud mouth people, nothing good to say and bad food. I would also be slagging them off on some US forum somewhere. I bet I would be told to go home pretty fast.

[aries27]

i like thailand. i can pass for a thai. so long as i dont open my mouth when i was there, we communicated pretty well.

[richard_smith237]

I’ve given up with the communication problem.

My Thai is not great, but I make efforts.

When I’m with another westerner, they understand my Thai. My girlfriend and many Thai friends all understand me when I speak Thai.

When I enter any establishment of the service industry and speak Thai.. As someone said, the lights are on, but often no one is home and I either have to repeat myself a number of times or a Thai translates Thai for me.

Often, I am lazy to do the ordering (as I was brought up, as the male it should be me who deals with ordering and communication and take care of my partner, I believe this also works in Thailand), I break my ‘gentleman’s’ rule and let my girlfriend do the ordering etc… Again, very often the lights are on and no-one is home (this has happened with a couple of previous girlfriends, so its not a Bangkok accent thing). My girlfriend offers the suggestion that in a lot of the service establishments folk are not working in their native tongue, and that coming from a different province they often have difficulty clearly understanding Thai as it is spoken in Bangkok. This combined with a mind numbed by menial tasks and its hardly any wonder that things are misunderstood, forgotten etc…

It used to drive me insane… but I find that so many of the problems that frustrated me, because I thought it was a Thai/westerner thing also very often occur ‘Thai on Thai’

The folk who say they never have these things happen to them either have some pretty thickly rose tinted specks or they might be completely mind numbed and simply not notice… This is obviously why they would write ‘if you don’t like it, go home’ and attempt to tarnish someone else’s thread by attempting to turn it into a slanging match after the 5th or so post.

Edited April 26, 2008 by richard_smith237

[petedk]

I think one of the problems in communicating with Thais (and Thais communicating with Thais) is that most Thai people are only concerned with their own little world and are not too serious about details.

I can speak Thai and have heard Thai people giving directions. Sometimes the route they advise is much longer than necessary simply because the person giving the directions only has a vague idea of the place. I once went into a hotel to ask the location of another hotel (in Bangkok). The staff had no idea and advised me to take a taxi. It turned out the hotel I was looking for was only a few hundred meters away.

I have sometimes asked my girlfriend questions about Bangkok or Thailand and the response I get is something in the line of "It doesn't concern me so I'm not interested" not "I'm sorry i don't know".

I travel to other towns quite a bit by bus or van and one of the most frustrating things for me is trying to get an answer as to when the van leaves or how long the journey takes. The answer to the first question is nearly always "soon". "Soon" can be anything in my experience from 5 minutes to 1 hour. The answer to the second question is often very vague "not long" or "it depends on traffic".

Other reasons may be the feeling of not wanting to lie. "I'll be there in 10 minutes" means "wait. I am going to take a shower now and I will be there sometime in the next hour".

[lardy]

Straight communication is next to impossible here, because of little or no English skills or their incliniation to tell you what they think you want to hear or to tell you something that will not diminish their stature in a conversation, ie the so-called face-saving.

I hear what you're saying but have you considered that if you live in Thailand you are actually in a foreign country (if you happen to come from somewhere else). How pompous are some of us to think that communication is difficult because they don't speak English. I actually appreciate the fact that many Thais at least attempt to speak English. I'm sure the majority of Thais communicate quite well with each other and with the foreigners who went to the trouble to learn the Thai language.

This is interesting as my wife often has problems same as the OP and she is Thai.

Example she spends a period of 6 months talking with a Thai about buying land off her, a price is agreed and accepted by both sides, she tells the owner she will be down (Bangkok to Hua Hin) to give her a deposit. Wife travels down meets the woman who then says she wants more money. No mention of upping the price during the previous 6 months of talks and nothing mentioned until after she has travelled all that way. She declined and walked a way from the land, still smiling but secretly wanting to half kill her, the woman said she was desperate for money and the price was not low by any means.

She also goes into shops and asks where something is and a staff member points to where it is but when she goes there its not there, so she goes back and asks the same person again and they admit they dont know where it is

and this drives my wife nuts so she then asks them why did they tell her this and gets the blank look!!

[jstumbo]

[ a lack of clarity, an inability to get exacts and precise answers (road directions are vaguely down that way somewhere on the left perhaps, not go 200m and its on the left immediately before the big school Etc.. They dont seem to value precision in statements IMO)

I have this same issue in China. Maybe it is an Asian thing? I ask when something is going to happen and I get told "soon". I ask how much and get told "not too much". I ask how far it is and "not too far" is the answer. This is the way the Chinese language is also.

[deejah]

Rules are tools; never forget that. I use their societal and cultural rules against them to achieve my goals. It's win/win.

td

could you please give us some examples of how you do this?

sounds interesting and helpful

thanks

in regards to this communication topic, omg, so many stories i could write a book

one of the most frustrating experiences is how the phone is used here

often they don't identify themselves

often they don't say good bye before hanging up

and also their phone conversation timing, give and take or lack thereof,

the best i can do is shut up and wait until they finish talking

but that doesn't always work either

as they tend to want to fill the silence instead of wait for you to talk

(not limited to Thais)

etc...

[aries27]

Maybe it is an Asian thing?

it is an asian thing alright!

in the PH, unless it is a matter of life and death, do not ask for directions, time or skeds anything with precise measurements.

also, the last person you will ask for directions is the ubiquitous security guard. chances are, they are new, or studying the vicinity was not part of the training.

i think it is more of trying to be helpful, or not looking good to the foreigner for not knowing these things hence the attempts.

but really, being precise is not really held so valuable in this part of the world. even i for instance do not give kilometers if someone asks for distance. the more automatic reply for me would be say, 4 hours drive by bus. but with the traffic, road problems and stop-overs, doesnt it make sense to know this rather than the distance as you will really get disappointed that a 100 kilometer trip took you 4 hours, even on a good running bus?

but of course, there are always exceptions.

[PadThaiGuy]

Never mind. A national slogan..and well deserved.

[LooseCannon]

A partial explanation for some of the idiosyncrasies that the Thai exhibit can be attributed to the fact that Thailand is still, & will be, for a quite a number of future generations, an agrarian society. By far the huge majority of Thais are less than a generation away from a village/rural life & have a mindset that is firmly rooted in the 'country'. If you think about the divide that exists between 'city' & the 'country' in western countries, it might help us to understand what is happening in Thailand. When I go back to my mothers village in north east England, it's not remote by distance, but more remote by time. It is almost like going back in time 100 years except everybody has a microwave. Country people think differently from city people & I am not making a judgement of which is better, but there is just a different way of doing things.

Thailand is exactly the same in this respect. When we come here we see the locals driving around in BMW's or late model sedans & utes, they have DVD's, computers, mobile phones etc. They go to work in ultra modern multi storey buildings, air-conditioned 7-11's & shopping malls. But what happens when they go home everyday? Essentially it is village life transported to the city. When you go to the smaller provincial towns & rural areas everything is exactly the same (except for the BMW's). In the west the transition from agrarian society to industrialized society has taken place over 150 years or more, in Thailand this hasn't happened yet, but all the trappings we associate with an advanced industrial society can be found here, thus giving the illusion of being a 'sophisticated' society ( I am not sure if this is correct word to use in this context, to illustrate what I am getting at - you go into a shiny, new, modern department store in London/New York & you have certain 'expectations' of how your interaction with the people found therein will transpire. You see someone in a 'setting' & it is natural to assume that that person has certain 'qualities' 'abilities').

Westerners like to be precise which is the result of living in a modern city - exact times, places & distances. The Thais are vague because in a rural setting it is appropriate.

A few thoughts on 'face' & the 'saving of' - I think westerners are too preoccupied with getting an admission of guilt or acknowledgement of being wrong out of the person that they are interacting with. I am not talking about the more extreme situations, but just the everyday interactions, where in the west there would be just a 'casual' acknowledgement, a sort of "oh, yea you're right" response, the Thais response is more in body language, I know you are wrong, you know you are wrong, we just don't have to say it, why rub salt into the wound. In a lot of situations this then leads to the the person repeating the 'incorrect' statement, and this where you move on & the whole thing is brushed aside.

The thing is if you want to live a relatively stress free existence in Thailand you have to be prepared to adapt, to bend & be flexible in your thinking. If you insistence on being rigid & uncompromising in your thinking, & expect Thais to react & behave as a westerner would you will go insane. This has got nothing to do with liking it, it is all to do with adapting to it.

How can you live in Thailand, be surrounded by Thais & not become 'Thai' to some extent? Impossible.

[onzestan]

A partial explanation for some of the idiosyncrasies that the Thai exhibit can be attributed to the fact that Thailand is still, & will be, for a quite a number of future generations, an agrarian society. By far the huge majority of Thais are less than a generation away from a village/rural life & have a mindset that is firmly rooted in the 'country'. If you think about the divide that exists between 'city' & the 'country' in western countries, it might help us to understand what is happening in Thailand. When I go back to my mothers village in north east England, it's not remote by distance, but more remote by time. It is almost like going back in time 100 years except everybody has a microwave. Country people think differently from city people & I am not making a judgement of which is better, but there is just a different way of doing things.

Thailand is exactly the same in this respect. When we come here we see the locals driving around in BMW's or late model sedans & utes, they have DVD's, computers, mobile phones etc. They go to work in ultra modern multi storey buildings, air-conditioned 7-11's & shopping malls. But what happens when they go home everyday? Essentially it is village life transported to the city. When you go to the smaller provincial towns & rural areas everything is exactly the same (except for the BMW's). In the west the transition from agrarian society to industrialized society has taken place over 150 years or more, in Thailand this hasn't happened yet, but all the trappings we associate with an advanced industrial society can be found here, thus giving the illusion of being a 'sophisticated' society ( I am not sure if this is correct word to use in this context, to illustrate what I am getting at - you go into a shiny, new, modern department store in London/New York & you have certain 'expectations' of how your interaction with the people found therein will transpire. You see someone in a 'setting' & it is natural to assume that that person has certain 'qualities' 'abilities').

Westerners like to be precise which is the result of living in a modern city - exact times, places & distances. The Thais are vague because in a rural setting it is appropriate.

A few thoughts on 'face' & the 'saving of' - I think westerners are too preoccupied with getting an admission of guilt or acknowledgement of being wrong out of the person that they are interacting with. I am not talking about the more extreme situations, but just the everyday interactions, where in the west there would be just a 'casual' acknowledgement, a sort of "oh, yea you're right" response, the Thais response is more in body language, I know you are wrong, you know you are wrong, we just don't have to say it, why rub salt into the wound. In a lot of situations this then leads to the the person repeating the 'incorrect' statement, and this where you move on & the whole thing is brushed aside.

The thing is if you want to live a relatively stress free existence in Thailand you have to be prepared to adapt, to bend & be flexible in your thinking. If you insistence on being rigid & uncompromising in your thinking, & expect Thais to react & behave as a westerner would you will go insane. This has got nothing to do with liking it, it is all to do with adapting to it.

How can you live in Thailand, be surrounded by Thais & not become 'Thai' to some extent? Impossible.

I couldn't have said it any better!!

onzestan

[peter991]

Two observations:

1) Get in a taxi at Suvarnabhumi - tell the driver (in English) want to go to Saphan Kwai via the Expressway. Ask him if he understands my request. His answer (in English): 'Yes.' Thai other half in the taxi with me asks him (in Thai) where we are going? Taxi driver has no idea. It seems he knows about 1 word in English and that is 'yes.'

2) If I ask too many questions, Thai other half complains he has a headache. It's my queue to shut up.

Peter

[LivinLOS]

I've been in this bizarre land for three years and lost hope of ever understanding the asian mind until I read two books: Working with the Thais and Wandering Through Thai Culture. Please get a hold of these, read and I'm sure much of the intensity of your frustration and amazement at Thai behavior will be reduced. I'm afraid though that once you understand the basic tenents this culture is based on, you may find it even less acceptable than before. I have tried to accept this culture but I cannot lie to myself anymore... I cannot accept this culture on principle. Hope you find your way in this place.

mate, if you ever came to my country and said these things about my culture, I garantee that you would get a smack on that big mouth of yours.

you are a guest here, behave yourself. or go home!

I am amazed that you have stayed alive here for 3 years.

Why when 'cultural' norms include lieing and deceit.. You can dress it up as face as much as you like but they are still facts.

[LivinLOS]

I think one of the problems in communicating with Thais (and Thais communicating with Thais) is that most Thai people are only concerned with their own little world and are not too serious about details.

I can speak Thai and have heard Thai people giving directions. Sometimes the route they advise is much longer than necessary simply because the person giving the directions only has a vague idea of the place. I once went into a hotel to ask the location of another hotel (in Bangkok). The staff had no idea and advised me to take a taxi. It turned out the hotel I was looking for was only a few hundred meters away.

I have sometimes asked my girlfriend questions about Bangkok or Thailand and the response I get is something in the line of "It doesn't concern me so I'm not interested" not "I'm sorry i don't know".

I travel to other towns quite a bit by bus or van and one of the most frustrating things for me is trying to get an answer as to when the van leaves or how long the journey takes. The answer to the first question is nearly always "soon". "Soon" can be anything in my experience from 5 minutes to 1 hour. The answer to the second question is often very vague "not long" or "it depends on traffic".

Other reasons may be the feeling of not wanting to lie. "I'll be there in 10 minutes" means "wait. I am going to take a shower now and I will be there sometime in the next hour".

The one interesting thing (for me) that this thread has brought up is..

Is Thai language perhaps imprecise and ambiguous nature a function of Thailands social etiquette and norms (not pressing people for anwers to save face, skirting an issue) or is the social function brought on by the language ??

As to the comment in bold above.. That strikes me as a the common 'face saving' answer.. I am not interested versus I am ignorant to.. I think thats almost universal tho much moreso here.

[LivinLOS]

A partial explanation for some of the idiosyncrasies that the Thai exhibit can be attributed to the fact that Thailand is still, & will be, for a quite a number of future generations, an agrarian society. By far the huge majority of Thais are less than a generation away from a village/rural life & have a mindset that is firmly rooted in the 'country'. If you think about the divide that exists between 'city' & the 'country' in western countries, it might help us to understand what is happening in Thailand. When I go back to my mothers village in north east England, it's not remote by distance, but more remote by time. It is almost like going back in time 100 years except everybody has a microwave. Country people think differently from city people & I am not making a judgement of which is better, but there is just a different way of doing things.

Thailand is exactly the same in this respect. When we come here we see the locals driving around in BMW's or late model sedans & utes, they have DVD's, computers, mobile phones etc. They go to work in ultra modern multi storey buildings, air-conditioned 7-11's & shopping malls. But what happens when they go home everyday? Essentially it is village life transported to the city. When you go to the smaller provincial towns & rural areas everything is exactly the same (except for the BMW's). In the west the transition from agrarian society to industrialized society has taken place over 150 years or more, in Thailand this hasn't happened yet, but all the trappings we associate with an advanced industrial society can be found here, thus giving the illusion of being a 'sophisticated' society ( I am not sure if this is correct word to use in this context, to illustrate what I am getting at - you go into a shiny, new, modern department store in London/New York & you have certain 'expectations' of how your interaction with the people found therein will transpire. You see someone in a 'setting' & it is natural to assume that that person has certain 'qualities' 'abilities').

Westerners like to be precise which is the result of living in a modern city - exact times, places & distances. The Thais are vague because in a rural setting it is appropriate.

A few thoughts on 'face' & the 'saving of' - I think westerners are too preoccupied with getting an admission of guilt or acknowledgement of being wrong out of the person that they are interacting with. I am not talking about the more extreme situations, but just the everyday interactions, where in the west there would be just a 'casual' acknowledgement, a sort of "oh, yea you're right" response, the Thais response is more in body language, I know you are wrong, you know you are wrong, we just don't have to say it, why rub salt into the wound. In a lot of situations this then leads to the the person repeating the 'incorrect' statement, and this where you move on & the whole thing is brushed aside.

The thing is if you want to live a relatively stress free existence in Thailand you have to be prepared to adapt, to bend & be flexible in your thinking. If you insistence on being rigid & uncompromising in your thinking, & expect Thais to react & behave as a westerner would you will go insane. This has got nothing to do with liking it, it is all to do with adapting to it.

How can you live in Thailand, be surrounded by Thais & not become 'Thai' to some extent? Impossible.

A good post.. and leads me to wonder what Thai body language ticks dont we read well ??

I was in India last year for a month and they can also be smiling but maddenly frustrating people.. However the thing that so many take the mickey about, the indian head wobble.. I found great.. its not a yes, its not a no, it can be a greeting, it can be an admission of guilt or shame.. However I found it pretty readable myself.. In fact I caught myself in the head wobble game many times.

[LivinLOS]

Last post.. Its impossible to say what I am going to say without sounding mean spirited (and thats not my intent) or neo sahib colonial.. But here goes anyway.

Lets not forget the general population (average) of Thailand is not too bright.. They score in the 80's on an IQ average.. I remember reading that 16% of north eastern children classified as technically retarded by IQ definitions of the term.

You can dislike me for saying it out loud but those are measured stats. It may not be PC to say it but we have to make allowances for that.

[twschw]

Quite a bold post, LivinLOS. Could we have a link to your information? It would fascinating to learn more.

[grtaylor]

[ a lack of clarity, an inability to get exacts and precise answers (road directions are vaguely down that way somewhere on the left perhaps, not go 200m and its on the left immediately before the big school Etc.. They dont seem to value precision in statements IMO)

I have this same issue in China. Maybe it is an Asian thing? I ask when something is going to happen and I get told "soon". I ask how much and get told "not too much". I ask how far it is and "not too far" is the answer. This is the way the Chinese language is also.

Maybe the problem is that we, as westerners, tend to be too obsessed with detail . . . .

G

[LivinLOS]

Quite a bold post, LivinLOS. Could we have a link to your information? It would fascinating to learn more.

One minute on google gave me this link..

I read the same text in a different format in the past.. Originally in the Nation so it says.

http://www.thailandlife.com/thaiyouth_64.html

The survey also found that 8.5 per cent of the children it tested were mentally retarded. Most of them were in the North, where 16.4 per cent of the children surveyed were classified as mentally retarded. Only 2.5 per cent of those tested in Bangkok were mentally retarded.

I had read Thailand was an average IQ of high 80's.. (87 or 89 from memory) but wikipedia is saying 91 now.. I am trying to remember where I read the 80's score and from what research.

EDIT :: I was going to go back and edit the previous post where I said it was an 80's score on average IQ but cant edit the post any longer.. As I cant find the link I am sure I had read please disregard that data.. However even a 91 score when looked at next to a Chinese 105 explains much about how the country is run !!

Edited April 27, 2008 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

[ a lack of clarity, an inability to get exacts and precise answers (road directions are vaguely down that way somewhere on the left perhaps, not go 200m and its on the left immediately before the big school Etc.. They dont seem to value precision in statements IMO)

I have this same issue in China. Maybe it is an Asian thing? I ask when something is going to happen and I get told "soon". I ask how much and get told "not too much". I ask how far it is and "not too far" is the answer. This is the way the Chinese language is also.

Maybe the problem is that we, as westerners, tend to be too obsessed with detail . . . .

G

This is the 21st century.. Detail and precision are (sometimes) essential in the modern world. Its OK to be ambiguous by choice sometimes but essential that the skill be there for when it IS required.

Thai time may be ok for planting rice but it does not cut it for rocket launches (or nuclear reactors).

[LooseCannon]

..... In fact I caught myself in the head wobble game many times.

I spent a lot of time in India during the late 70's & 80's & found the Indians to be probably the most helpful & friendly people in the world - unfortunately a good percentage had no idea what they were talking about. I lost count of the number of times that on asking directions to a particular place & receiving an incredibly detailed description on how to reach the place, only to find out that it was totally wrong, & more often than not in completely the wrong direction. Language was certainly not a problem as a lot of Indians speak excellent English (in fact a really beautifully spoken & written version of English that seems to have been caught in a time warp, sometime around the early 1900's) so it must a cultural trait - a strong desire not to disappoint maybe.

From a previous post, someone mentioned the frustration of going into a shop & asking for directions to a particular item, only to find the directions to be completely wrong. Maybe this is similar to the Indian experience. Maybe the Thai thinks - I work here, this is my job, I should know where the item is, but I am not sure so I will say this.......

This satisfies the 'face saving' aspect (yes I know my job) as well as the desire not to disappoint (in a lot ways Thai's & Indians are very similar, & I have always found Thai people to be very helpful).

After spending any length of time in India the head wobble just seemed to happen subconsciously, it was like I had no control over it.

I must say I have witnessed some truly classic examples of the wobble - it is almost hypnotic.