The High Cost Of Teaching Legally In Thailand

[garro]

<br />I hope you can help me. I possess a number of degrees including an University Diploma in Education as well as an Honours degree in Education. I have been teaching botany for many years at university level. Would I be able to teach English in Thailand with my qualifications, or would I be required to attain a qualification in the teaching of English? My diploma in education states that I am qualified to teach in the medium of English.<br /><br />What are the salaries that teachers can expect?

Hi Fundi, a lot will also depend on whether or not you are a native speaker. There are many highly qualified Fillipino and Indian teachers who do not get paid well because they do not meet this criteria.

[mizzi39]

Yeah, I missed the part where you explained what's wrong with a (developing) country insisting that foreign (teaching) employees meet similar professional standards to what they would have to in their own country. After all, the purpose of having these conditions is not to "have a go" at foreigners; rather, it's to provide the best quality education possible to Thais, to improve Thailand's image and confidence as a serious economy.

Good grief some people live in a dream world on here.

Nemo - and others, you want to pick and choose elements of developed nations' education policy (that of teacher qualifications) yet you are willing to completely overlook the failings in the Thai education system. If you want to compare two countries education systems then you have to look at the whole picture.

Anyone who has taught here can see that the problems of rote learning, copying and cheating, bribes and no fail policies are huge obstacles that are holding back progression, yet the only part some people want to copy from the west is how qualified teachers should be.

To compare Thailand's education system with a developed country is like comparing apples and pork. Both are food.

Some people deviate so far from reality that i wonder if they are in fact advising the TCT. Think about the logistics of some of your proposals. Think about how you're going to hire new teachers. The current process can take 2 months to find the right candidate. In the west, that isnt a huge problem because teaching is a PROFESSION. Here in Thailand, it is NOT a profession for foreigners. Pension? More than a one year contract? Promotion? Guarantee of visa extension? Teacher training? Further study encouraged and paid for by the employer? Nope.

Thailand wants to 'attract' teachers qualified to western standards but doesnt want to pay or give western standards of salary or benefits and working conditions. It is a ridiculous notion to even try to compare the two systems.

Finally - the suggestion that raising the bar to western standards will attract better teachers (again - no thought at all has been given to the logistical implementation of hiring and training these new teachers). Let's extrapolate this notion further - instead of raising the bar to western standards - lets raise it a bit higher. Why not? We will attract EVEN better teachers wont we? So, lets raise it to insisting that all teachers have a Phd as a minimum, in the subject that they want to teach. There now, that would improve things wouldnt it? Cos you need a fuc_king Phd to teach two sentences a week to a class of 40 Prathom kids who only ever speak English (occasionally) in English class.

Let's be quite clear about this. The Thai education system is not, and will never be, similar to that of a developed western nation. Many of the reasons for this lie in Thai/Buddhist and Confucian social reasons. The hierarchical system of Thai culture does not want free thinking and educated people. Lip service is paid to education, but the masses, in general, remain subjugated. Thai people like to compare their country to the west - often never actually having been there. Thai people actually believe that their university degrees are comparable to those in the west. They then believe that ALL teachers should be qualified similarly to teachers in the west - yet within the hallowed and shiny halls of the Ministry of Education and the TCT they cannot find one person to adequately write their licensing exam in English. Does anyone see a delicious fuc_kING irony in that?

Further training is good - of course - but we have to be realistic here.

Here is a simple analogy for the TCT to consider. Somchai owns a vehicle tyre shop. He takes tyres off wheels and puts new ones on. That's his job. He does it well. The some fuc_kWIT in the Ministry of Stupid fuc_king Ideas insists that Somchai has to become trained to Formula One Mechanic Standards and licensed by Ferrari. Somchai doesn't need to know how to fit a turbocharger to a V8 engine because his customers dont have engines like that. They just want new tyres.

Now then - Somchai HAS had further training in his profession, but it is expensive and unnecessary and at an unrealistic level for the market that he works in. Somchai closes his tyre shop in frustration and starts selling noodles from his samlor.

As for working completely legally. At our school - well, yes, kinda. For whatever reason, it takes our school 3 months to get a work permit. They apply as soon as the teacher has their none B but the various departments take their own sweet time and 3 months is how long it takes. So, technically, we have teachers working illegally for those 3 months. I know it isnt crime of the century, but technically it is illegal. I dont see a solution to that. We can hardly keep teaches on salary but sat at home for 3 months.

We only have one campus - so the work permit location is fine. We refuse to do 'other work' that isnt specified on our work permit - like serving up lunch to the kids for example.

As for doing privates, yeah most people do them i m sure. Our school turn a blind eye to it. We insist that teachers follow reasonably ethics though - which means not privately teaching kids from our own school. There is no conflict of interest there then - though i have spoken to teachers from other schools who see no conflict of interest at all in doing that. Hey ho!

The new culture course and TCT exam is going to make things a lot harder. The province that i am in do things this way. None B, teachers licence, work permit, extension to stay. Some provinces do things in a different order. Now the problem we will have if the TCT get their way is that we will get our new teaches in on a none B, then, if they dont get their TCT course done STRAIGHT AWAY they wont get their teachers license, which means they wont get their work permit or 1 year extension to stay. They will then HAVE to leave after their none B visa expires. We will then have to start the cycle again. Which potentially means having 3 new teachers per academic year - all working without papers.

And this is an improvement?

The province that I am in do things this way. non B, teachers license, work permit, extension of stay.

The province that I am in does it this way. non B, teachers license EXEMPTION, work permit, extention of stay. Why isn't your school making a simple phone call to the teachers council and getting exemption letters for all the farangs teachers? Our director got this done with a simple phone call. Your director should be able to do the same.

[aussiestyle1983]

" 165 User(s) are reading this topic (114 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users) "

Wow! Good thread PB!

In response to someones comment on the no-fail policy. I like the no-fail policy as far as being a teacher is concerned, especially since I realise I couldn't change it if I wanted. It just means less work for us teachers. If that is the Thai way, why should I care? A no fail policy might not bring the best out of all students, especially the bludgers, but it doesn't change their level of intelligence. Long live the no fail policy and not having to mark papers! Long live the illegals as well! One I get my degree, I will return to Thailand and try teaching illegally next time. That seems to be the dominant paradigm.

[Arkady]

First of all I am not a teacher. Superficially it is hard to disagree with the government's ostensible intention to implement developed country standards on foreign English teachers. One problem I see is that they ignore the very low standards of their own teachers and education system. Most Thai bachelor degrees are of pitiful quality and the vast majority of Thai teachers of English cannot readily make themselves understood in English, let alone teach it. Thai students want to be taught English by native speakers but only a very small percentage can afford to pay an international market rate in competition with students from Japan, Korea etc who want the same thing. The government does need to regulate foreign teachers but they need to do this with a light touch and with the objective of providing their students with the best they can afford. An in country teaching qualification is a good idea for those without a proper teaching credential but it should be subcontracted out to more than one overseas affiliated teacher training institutes that can provide an internationally accepted qualification at a competitive price. The course on Thai culture is superfluous. They can assume that teachers are intelligent and interested enough to learn about Thai culture by themselves. The government needs simply to figure out the best way to ensure that they certify teachers who are capable of teaching English competetently and to ensure that those who can't are excluded. The objective should be that the cheapest schools still have teachers that can teach even if they don't have fancy overseas qualifications. Strictly excluding useless teachers might drive up prices for students at the lower price points but would spare them from wasting their time and money.

Sadly none of this will happen. The authorities will continue to dream up xenophobic policies towards foreign workers and investors without taking into account the real needs of the ordinary people and Thailand's competitive position in Asia. The elite will continue their strenuous efforts to keep the common people stupid and easy to manipulate. Corrupt politicians and civil servants will continue to loot the Education Ministry with impunity. Their children will continue to get away with cheating in exams. Foreigners with no ability or interest in teaching will continue to work in Thailand both legally and illegally. Vietnam, China and India will continue to leave Thailand behind.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Arkady

[culicine]

Hi Fundi, a lot will also depend on whether or not you are a native speaker. There are many highly qualified Fillipino and Indian teachers who do not get paid well because they do not meet this criteria.

Yes I should have mentioned that as well. If you are a non-native speaker, you can try english programs and other private schools. The salary is much less though, even if you have a BEd. maybe you can get 25-30K is you really haggle. However, many Filipinos I know of, for example, are working for 10-20K a month.

[markg]

The province that I am in does it this way. non B, teachers license EXEMPTION, work permit, extention of stay. Why isn't your school making a simple phone call to the teachers council and getting exemption letters for all the farangs teachers? Our director got this done with a simple phone call. Your director should be able to do the same.

Well, a couple of reasons. Firstly, when they eventually answered the phone, they said if we want an immediate exemption then we would have to get someone to apply in person with all the teachers names. At the office 700km away in Bangkok. Having one office to deal with this nationwide problem is insane. We are way down in the south of thailand.

Secondly, it isnt really an exemption. It's a temporary thing for 2 years i think, during which time ALL teachers have to get the test done and passed. This is clearly a short-term 'band-aid' solution to a problem that they didnt foresee. What's going to happen in 2 years when the temporary exemptions are stopped and we get to the point where we can only employ teachers with the TCT qualification? How on earth are we going to be able to recruit teachers and get all the paperwork done within the short downtime between semesters? It's almost impossible?

If TEFL teachers wanted to be extremely clever, we could get the test passed and hold schools to ransom for more money. There will come a time when there are many more jobs than TCT qualified teachers. And that puts TCT qualified teachers in a strong position.

OR

Only employ teachers with Bed. The vast majority of whom seem to be filipinos.

Either way, i dont see these changes improving things within Thai education. The tests, and the implementation of them, are unreasonable, unrealistic and have been poorly thought out.

[culicine]

If TEFL teachers wanted to be extremely clever, we could get the test passed and hold schools to ransom for more money. There will come a time when there are many more jobs than TCT qualified teachers. And that puts TCT qualified teachers in a strong position.

OR

Only employ teachers with Bed. The vast majority of whom seem to be filipinos.

Either way, i dont see these changes improving things within Thai education. The tests, and the implementation of them, are unreasonable, unrealistic and have been poorly thought out.

Assuming the rules are enforced, most teachers in Thailand will be qualified non-native speakers. The trend is already happening - over 80% of teachers at the Thai culture and Ethics course I attended were Philipinos. From what I observed, most had teaching qualifications so can easily get their new TL. No farang teacher had similar qualifications from their home country. Increasingly, schools are employing Philipinos for those reasons - easy to get the TL, and they are cheaper and more compliant. Whether they are familiar with western teaching methodolody, I don't know. Suffice to say, those I spoke to didn't know who Benjamin Bloom was. From my observations, their classroom management is also next to nil. Good luck Thailand!!!

[aazA]

There always seems to be this comparison with Thailand, Japan and Korea.

Put it into perspective. In Korea you are going to be getting a salary of US$ 2,500 per month plus. That is 80,000 Baht a month. In Thailand they will pay you 30,000 Baht a month and refuse to pay for holidays which means you get a salary for 9 months of the year. That equates to 22,500 Baht a month.

Korea : 80,000 Baht a month

Thailand : 22,500 Baht a month

Who gets the most qualified teachers? You don't need to be a brain surgeon to work it out. Add on all the new costs in Thailand. Cultural course, new education course pay for your work permit. All in all you are going to have to spend another 60,000 Baht to earn your 22,500 Baht a month. Does that make financial sense?

Many schools offer 33,000 fully paid holidays work permit,free health insurance,33,000 bonus end of contract and some,will pay for your flight home and back if u renew contract.

it is the M.O.E that is going to make it harder for the schools,and as most schools will tell teachers all students get an exam pass regardless of his or her ability. so all this b##ls##t about degrees is mainly aimed at getting the parents with wealth to to enroll in the E.P.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

" 165 User(s) are reading this topic (114 Guests and 1 Anonymous Users) "

Wow! Good thread PB!

In response to someones comment on the no-fail policy. I like the no-fail policy as far as being a teacher is concerned, especially since I realise I couldn't change it if I wanted. It just means less work for us teachers. If that is the Thai way, why should I care? A no fail policy might not bring the best out of all students, especially the bludgers, but it doesn't change their level of intelligence. Long live the no fail policy and not having to mark papers! Long live the illegals as well! One I get my degree, I will return to Thailand and try teaching illegally next time. That seems to be the dominant paradigm.

Love it.

[windosill]

I taught in Thailand for 2 years with a BA and TEFL qualification. I am currently in the UK doing my PGCE and really appreciate that now I have been told how to teach rather than just the knowledge of language that I learnt on my TEFL course. Now that I have the PGCE I would never work in Thailand again, for the simple fact that the salaries are too low considering I have been to university for 5 years and at the age of 26 I am 1 million Baht in debt due to student loans. I went to a lot of interviews in London a couple of months ago for jobs in Thailand starting August 2008, but the salary is just too low - between 70 - 90,000 Baht per month, so I've accepted a job in Vietnam where the salary is equal to more than I would earn in the UK as a newly qualified teacher, 150,000 Baht+ a month.

[james24]

I dont have degree but I do have a celta qualification. I think if some sort of tefl was the required for getting a work permit to teach in Thailand that ould save a lot of problems for both sides. It would help the country by cutting out the people that shouldn't be teaching by making it easier to police, whilst keeping the majority of teachers happy by helping them to work legally and keeping the schools out of trouble.

[mizzi39]

I hope that I am not going off topic but since this poster is about "legalities" for teachers I think what needs to be addressed is how TEFL programs in Thailand get away with misleading perspective clients looking to get qualified by leading them to believe that you don't need a degree to teach in Thailand. Every TEFL add that I have come across (including the school I attended) says the same thing "You don't need a degree to teach in Thailand". or "Degree not required" etc. Ah, excuse me? Yes you do, or at least you need the degree in order to qualify for WP, TL, and Non "B". (i.e. to teach legally). I find it ironic that all of these programs are registered with the MOE, yet they are allowed to promote their programs through deceptive advertising.

[garro]

I hope that I am not going off topic but since this poster is about "legalities" for teachers I think what needs to be addressed is how TEFL programs in Thailand get away with misleading perspective clients looking to get qualified by leading them to believe that you don't need a degree to teach in Thailand. Every TEFL add that I have come across (including the school I attended) says the same thing "You don't need a degree to teach in Thailand". or "Degree not required" etc. Ah, excuse me? Yes you do, or at least you need the degree in order to qualify for WP, TL, and Non "B". (i.e. to teach legally). I find it ironic that all of these programs are registered with the MOE, yet they are allowed to promote their programs through deceptive advertising.

I agree with you and considering the fact that TEFL isn't even a requirement for the TL they should be more open and honest about this. It is a good topic for another thread - again.

[robint]

Hi all

Missed the point?

I should cocoa

A certain football impresario by the name of Frank has stated publicly in CEO style that LOS does not need foreigners teaching English to Thai children. Thais can train their own students themselves

QED (well he is the boss isnt he)

So you can all pack up and go home, you are not wanted. That should be abundantly clear from all the increasingly Xenophobic rules, regulations and frivolous interpretations of the law.

If you are a serious qualified TEFL teacher you wouldnt touch LOS with a bargepole. There are far far better countries to practice your art with much better pay and conditions and the last thing you want on your CV is work experience in LOS (employers may rank you as a pervert, not to be trusted with kids)

I am only referring to professionally trained TEFLERs (who are as rare as hen's teeth in LOS)

//Edit: deleted nonsensical comment about flang (sic) - Maestro

Edited April 26, 2008 by Maestro

[mizzi39]

The new regulations are Thai culture course and test all for the remarkable low price of 8000 baht at your expense! If this issue comes up at your school and you are not prepared to take it, have your director or whoever handles your contract call the Teachers Council and they should furnish you with an exemption letter which is good for 2 years. Good Luck!

//Edit: deleted quotes of deleted posts - Maestro

Edited April 26, 2008 by Maestro

[Maestro]

Flames about grammar and replies thereto have been deleted.

--

Maestro

[anon467367354]

Off-topic posts have been deleted. This is the Teaching in Thailand forum, and this thread is specifically about teaching legally in Thailand, so lets keep the topic on that instead. If you have other issues to address or other occupations to discuss then please do so elsewhere.

(and davidwright, I am a native English speaker, and a moderator and I was posting in that role. Lets just leave it at that instead of getting personal shall we?)

Then if you are a moderator do not offer comment when you clearly did'nt read it properly!

As i said advise was given.

Have a nice day

advice- noun

advise- verb

get over it people. I think the role of the English language teachers here is to communicate. I think we have clearly illustrated here that grammar is not of the essence, but maybe being a good teacher is. These people that are misusing the giving advice and advising others on what to do, do you guys have degrees? Fact of the matter is, we are communicating and that's a good thing. Relationship= interaction between two objects. Come on brothers and sisters, I'm elated we're related!

[johnwills]

I think if you want to teach in Thailand you should do this for the experience of teaching over here, not as a career move or a way to earn money. Lets face it, they wont pay the market rates that are available outside of Thailand (unless maybe you are at a top uni). Who wants to work 7 hours a day, 5 days a week for 25-30K Baht a month???

[markg]

The new regulations are Thai culture course and test all for the remarkable low price of 8000 baht at your expense! If this issue comes up at your school and you are not prepared to take it, have your director or whoever handles your contract call the Teachers Council and they should furnish you with an exemption letter which is good for 2 years. Good Luck!

Mizzi. Are you sure that the 8,000 baht is for the Culture Course AND the TCT test? I understood that the TCT tests were 4 different tests costing 6,000 baht each and that the culture course is around 8,000 baht alone. A not inconsequential 32,000 baht.

Who is going to bear this cost? The schools? Not likely in most cases. The teachers then...............ok, but anyone who knows anything about the TEFL world, you will know that there are substantial numbers of recent graduate 'gap-year' types. They have degree and TEFL but i just cant see them going to the expense and considerable, CONSIDERABLE, inconvenience of taking the TCT test. These people's contribution to the TEFL world should not be underestimated. In general, they do a perfectly acceptable job for 12 months or so. And there is a lot of them. Who is going to fill this massive gap if we effectively exclude them by making it just too difficult to work her for a year? Filipinos - that's who. Or illegally working natives. Either way, Thai students lose. Improvements to systems should improve things - not make them worse.

[markg]

I think if you want to teach in Thailand you should do this for the experience of teaching over here, not as a career move or a way to earn money. Lets face it, they wont pay the market rates that are available outside of Thailand (unless maybe you are at a top uni). Who wants to work 7 hours a day, 5 days a week for 25-30K Baht a month???

And that my friend, is exactly what a lot of TEFLers do. Just come for the 12 month experience. They do a fine job too in the main. The TCT dont seem to appreciate how the TEFL market works - and by making it more and more difficult to get legal, many of the 1 year TEFLers will go somewhere else. I think that will have a profound effect on school staffing in the future. If Thailand is happy with Filipinos teaching, then so be it. That does seem where the market is heading.

[bkkdawg]

There always seems to be this comparison with Thailand, Japan and Korea.

Put it into perspective. In Korea you are going to be getting a salary of US$ 2,500 per month plus. That is 80,000 Baht a month. In Thailand they will pay you 30,000 Baht a month and refuse to pay for holidays which means you get a salary for 9 months of the year. That equates to 22,500 Baht a month.

Korea : 80,000 Baht a month

Thailand : 22,500 Baht a month

Who gets the most qualified teachers? You don't need to be a brain surgeon to work it out. Add on all the new costs in Thailand. Cultural course, new education course pay for your work permit. All in all you are going to have to spend another 60,000 Baht to earn your 22,500 Baht a month. Does that make financial sense?

You can earn more than 22500 baht a month in Thailand, if you wanted to work the hours you could probably make 80,000 if you put your mind to it. Good money in Korea but they work you hard for it, and its very expensive to do anything. I'd say Thailand makes good financial sense if you get off your arse and put in the hrs!

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, y'all (which is the proper second person plural, subjective and objective pronoun, in Texas ).

Thanks to over 111 folks who did not get their posts deleted, even though most of you were off topic. Special thanks to george, and to the moderating team for taking the reins and the abuse whilst I was offline for 9 hours. Hmm, if I keep teaching long enough, I may get accustomed to saying whilst.

We have all had our chances to mention off-topic issues such as the abominable condition of education in Thailand; the fact that Thailand is not the US or the UK; native speaker versus non-native; grammar Naziism; Thai versus farang versus Filipino; non-existent salary disparities; and a few other off-topic issues. Please find threads elsewhere on the Teaching in Thailand Forum, or maybe over at pinoy.com, or wherever.

What about working illegally? Surely somebody with a BA from a native-speaking country should not have to buy a forged degree in Education. Surely working private lessons off-campus should be overlooked, since it is nearly impossible to get it added to a valid work permit. Surely, older farang should not be accepted into TEFL courses here if they cannot become legal. Shirley, the latest idiotic demands of the Teachers' Council of Thailand should be dismissed as brainfarts, except that it appears their nearly-impossible requirements, if uniformly and quickly implemented, would destroy the farang TEFL teaching industry faster than you can say, "This food is very spicy."

Working illegally continually puts good teachers at the constant whim of some petty bureaucrat who could make you unemployed or deported. That is not a friendly way to treat visiting teachers.

[freitag1]

All farang teachers should just leave. After a year Thailand would beg them to come back and probably also offer some incentives but of course this won't happen. Are farang teachers somehow organized? If that would be the case they would have at least some sort of influence on the whole problem, but again it would be probably dam_n risky to be the head of such an organization here in Thailand. If you don't do as the crooks say you would probably be the first to get kicked out of the country or get buried 6 feet deep.

[Thaiboxer]

As another poster said, qualified teachers would do way better financially to teach in other countries, such as Korea. The regulations that have popped up in the last few years, coupled with rising costs of living and pathetic salary levels have made the prospect of teaching here pretty grim. The old saying, "Beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind. If the schools here want people to work for bum wages, go through all the relentless paperwork/scrutiny by the government and put up with the majority of Thai students, there had better be some other incentives (like good salaries for example). For years, it was pretty easy to land a teaching job with no qualifications, and yet for all that time, the number of people who can communicate in English has grown. Perhaps it's better to have substandard teachers who are native speakers willing to give it a go than to have nobody at all.

[garro]

As another poster said, qualified teachers would do way better financially to teach in other countries, such as Korea. The regulations that have popped up in the last few years, coupled with rising costs of living and pathetic salary levels have made the prospect of teaching here pretty grim. The old saying, "Beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind. If the schools here want people to work for bum wages, go through all the relentless paperwork/scrutiny by the government and put up with the majority of Thai students, there had better be some other incentives (like good salaries for example). For years, it was pretty easy to land a teaching job with no qualifications, and yet for all that time, the number of people who can communicate in English has grown. Perhaps it's better to have substandard teachers who are native speakers willing to give it a go than to have nobody at all.

I recently heard, from somebody who spent quite a few years in Japan, that it is very difficult to find work in South Korea or Japan if you are older than thirty. Is this true?

While many people might leave if things get too tough, others are less able to up-sticks; especially those of us with families here. We will probably just have to jump through the hoops until we collapse from exhaustion.

[DragonQuest]

I just got a job offer, and I also have to get certified and take the test, they told me I have to cough up 4k Baht(low-end),(20k for the upper end course), I cant say no because I really need a job, working around 20 hours a week for around 30k per month, 9 1/2 months of work no paid holidays. I know it sucks to teach in Thailand but Alot of farang have it comfy here. I guess I'll stick around for another year or two to see what happens. On a side note other asian countries do look very interesting to me as well, I will definetly be keeping my eyes peeled to that agenda.

One question I do have though is that why do teachers need so much , to get so little? The cost ratio is out of whack, I know some teachers are having a hard time out there, and I feel for them. Lets see need a BA,TEFL,CELTA ,and now a TL!!!!!!!!! Im not sure what to say but to agree with all of you on this matter >< ; ;

[Thaiboxer]

Garro....not sure if that age rule is true, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Many job ads on ajarn.com will state that they want applicants no older than a certain age or between various ages. I've heard that the authorities are A LOT tougher when it comes to cracking down on illegal teachers in those countries as well. Like you, I also have a family here, so I'm in the teaching game for the long run. I guess we'll just have to take on a side job of political hoop jumping. I have a travel book on Thailand from the late 90's which says something along the lines of, "When civil servants get out the scissors for cutting the red tape, they cut it lengthwise".

[DragonQuest]

My friend is 60+ and still teaches in Thailand, he keep's saying he will retire next year but he never does! lol

[goldie3151]

...Isn't at best a little patronising to be discussing this topic implicit with the prejudice that it is somehow morally acceptable for Thais to accept lower standards than you would accept in your own country yourself? Quality is surely more likely to be better than quantity.

Precisely. The problem, I gather, seems to be that that most Thai schools do not have the money to employ quality.

--

Maestro

I have my certification in TESL /TEFL from a reputable International school and looked at the possibility of teaching in Thailand however I did not succeed because I do not have a degree and don't want to leave home to work illegally in another country.

It is my position that if you are a native English speaker that immediately implies that you already live in a country to which English is the predominant language. It is therefore accepted that those requiring ESL are more or less used to assist immigrants. To this fact Thailand is not and needs all the help it can get to improve its people chances to hold better positions in their country as well as abroad.

My question - Why not have a proper screening process - interview, certification of documents, oral test etc? Through this meaningful effort the Thai institutions should be able to select the best and most capable teachers. I must also add that most teachers with degrees have student loans to pay while TESL qualified ones tend to be less bugged down with heavy loans payments and can work for a decent wage perhaps more in fitting to Thai standards and still deliver excellent results product.

I most certianly do not think it is condesending to expect Thailand to accept a little less especially considering what they pay. but most importantly just because you don't have a degree does not mean you will do a lesser job. A degree by no means guarantee quality.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm afraid this topic has gone greatly off-topic. We don't allow discussion of the "degree-no degree" qualification debate here, as it tends to be inflammatory and pointless:

From the Teaching Subforum Guidelines:

8. Topics on the question of degrees/no degrees for teaching English or other subjects are currently restricted as they have been over-discussed and Thai government policy is not currently clear.

The fact is that the government, while making it more difficult, has continued to allow some teachers to teach conversational English in Thailand without college degrees.

The topic, in case anyone has forgotten, is what exactly the requirements *ARE* for teaching here- police check requirements, degree requirements, etc.- this is quite unclear, as PB the OP pointed out- not what the requirements SHOULD be, especially educationally. There is also some question about what teachers who cannot navigate the bureaucratic maze can do or should do (including, possibly, leaving).

Posters who fail to understand this will receive deletions and warnings after this point.

Thank you for your cooperation.

"S"