A Poured Concrete House? Walls, Floor, And Ceiling

[RY12]

I was wondering if it was at all economically practicable to make a house like a hollow concrete cube, with say 8-inch thick reinforced poured concrete, walls, ceiling, and floor as opposed to the usual block method in thai construction. I assume it would be sound proof and much stronger than normal contruction, but would it be overly expensive? (I'd be building a small rectangular house, just four walls, ceiling and floor, and a interior dividing walls) What about ventilation? Would it be cool like a cave or stuffy and require a wall fan to shoot a current across the rooms?

The reason I ask is because noise really bothers me and I've read all these posts about thai houses falling apart quickly (though they mostly address finish-work), and I just assumed a poured concrete house would solve these problems. I guess the other positive of having a poured ceiling, especially if you sealed the exterior, is that the roof wouldn't be too critical anymore, and you wouldn't have to worry about roof or attic insulation. is this right?

I imagine it being expensive because of 1.) the cost of the forms and set-up time, 2.) the cost of lots more reinforcing rebar than usual, 3.) the necessity of bringing in a big mixture truck at least a few times (a big problem with my lot because it's at the end of a long alley not wide enough for cars).

Edited May 2, 2008 by RY12

[Crossy]

Edison tried it, resounding failure http://flyingmoose.org/truthfic/edison.htm

I'm no expert, but I suspect your biggest issue (as was Edisons) will be the formwork, the standard wooden forms used here probably would not be up to the task in hand. There's another thread somewhere on ICF (Insulated Concrete Form) construction, that may be worth a look.

By the way, 8" poured walls = nuclear bomb shelter

Concrete bath anyone?

[Riley'sLife]

IMHO - Probably the most inappropriate construction method possible for use in the tropics. The build-up of heat during the day would be intolerable and would last through the night too, as concrete acts as a heat sink. The only way to reduce this effect would be to ensure the structure is 100% shaded, even then the walls would take ages to cool down at night and aircon would be essential.

Your assumption about roof insulation not being required is, in fact, totally erroneous as the main heat build up would occur interstitially in the roof as a result of solar gain.

So, it would not be cool like a cave, nor would it be stuffy. It would, however, probably be Thailand’s first green pizza oven!

It’s back to the drawing board I’m afraid.

Low mass, lightweight construction with solar reflective barrier incorporated into a well ventilated overhanging roof, shade, correct orientation and a design providing one room depth only which allows cross-flow ventilation is the way to go in the tropics. Not conducive to sound reduction though.

[chivo]

I wouldn't risk trying to build anything too experimental in terms of construction methods in Thailand.

Experimantal means, mistakes, learning, readjustment, etc.

I might focus more on choosing a quieter lot, further from the road and neighbors, and thick growths of trees around property perimeter and against the house to dampen noise.

Further you could add a layer of styrofoam insulation to all the walls for noise absorbtion.

[PattayaParent]

More expensive than brickwork or blockwork walls and as someone mentioned it would absorb heat and be like living in an oven, day and night.

[londonthai]

if you are at the end of the soi you should not have much noice - still position your house in the far corner, with trees between you and neighbours. I would think many houses fall apart because of the wrong fundations, to shallow sticks in the ground.

the roof is important to protect ceilings from the the direct sunshine, same with overhangs over the walls.

the heat insulations works as well as noice insulation - use it on the ceilings and external walls. Get an alluminium windows with double dark glass - they are expensive but very effective against noice and heat.

[jimmym40]

If mainly the noise you are trying to prevent, forget it. Unless of course you only have one door for entry/exit. The noise factor comes in to play thru all the windows and doors. No way you can prevent the noise thru windows.

But, the main reasons for not trying this would be the cost. Rebar/steel and conrete are expensive these days plus you'd probably pay an arm and leg just for the wood for the forms. I'm living in a total concrete prefab home in Chiang Mai. Very well insulated from top to bottom, but still hear the cycles and little kids playing around.

I'm always thinking how to improve on what I have. If I was to build again, I thought about using the "red brick" type and have drywall installed all thru the interior of the home - mainly for insulation of the walls.

Sorry, no good news for ya here.

[RY12]

Wait, aren't all the problems mentioned above about heat retention just as applicable to cement block houses? And isn't cement block the main construction method in Thailand? Ok, it looks like poured concrete is too expensive, but I don't have the money for some fancy alternative building method that's more heat efficient... isn't a cement block house with vents near the ceiling good enough for cross-ventilation? ...But what I gather from above is that ventilation might not be as important as stopping the heat sorce eminating from the hot walls... so it's more important to stop the problem there rather than the venilation of the resulting hot air?

Seems like an un-air-conditioned house is always going to be awful in Thailand no matter what you do.... then again i've never really been in well-build places much... can they be comfortable?

Edited May 3, 2008 by RY12

[jimmym40]

You're always going to have heat retention problems anywhere in Thailand. If you do not have A/C, you must have good ventilation, i.e. ceiling fans, exhaust fans, etc. something to move the air around. In addition to the heat problem, high humidity is also a big problem. If you live here now, you must notice that even when the rains come, it may cools things off a little bit, but the inside of the homes, the air remains dormant and with the high humidity, it's awful inside if you do not have A/C or good ventilation.

If you can affort to have A/C in most of the rooms in your house, I wouldn't be that concerned of the type of house building. Mostly all of the houses here are 80 percent made of concrete no matter what you buy. A lot depends on style of house, direction of the house sitting on the lot, and overhangs or provide much needed cover/shade.

After reading your posts again, I'm not sure what your major concern is, heat?

Sorry, can't get away from it here in Thailand.

[autonomous_unit]

Yeah, if you really want to get good isolation for sound (and heat!), rather than pouring a thick wall you would make double walls and use double-glazed windows.

Search the web for how people build high-end home sound recording studios... they do things like avoiding parallel surfaces in the shape of rooms and even making the double-walls non-parallel, which drastically reduces resonance and transmission of sound through the whole structure.

Of course, the cost is much higher in materials, workmanship, and inefficient use of space/volume compared to a normal structure. And nobody will want to buy your freakish creation later on, so it really has to be a labor of love. I'd recommend moving somewhere cooler and quieter instead.

[xerostar]

Do a search on ThaiVisa for Superblocks. There are a lot of threads.

This is by far the best material for building walls in Thailand (or any country).

They are fast to lay due to size, very light to lift, accurate, load bearing, heat and sound insulating.

Only single wall construction needed due to high insulation rating.

We have just completed a house and farm shed using these blocks - magic!

[Khun Jean]

Another building method is 'rammed earth'. I recon it gives you the thick solid walls to make the interior quiet.

You would need a layer of insulation when the wall is not in the shade otherwise it will be a large collector of heat.

Cheaper than that is impossible. Which gives you more money to spend on luxeries.

[Beardog]

Wait, aren't all the problems mentioned above about heat retention just as applicable to cement block houses? And isn't cement block the main construction method in Thailand? Ok, it looks like poured concrete is too expensive, but I don't have the money for some fancy alternative building method that's more heat efficient... isn't a cement block house with vents near the ceiling good enough for cross-ventilation? ...But what I gather from above is that ventilation might not be as important as stopping the heat sorce eminating from the hot walls... so it's more important to stop the problem there rather than the venilation of the resulting hot air?

Seems like an un-air-conditioned house is always going to be awful in Thailand no matter what you do.... then again i've never really been in well-build places much... can they be comfortable?

Not entirely true about the aircon being a needed in Thailand.

When I lived in Pattaya I needed Ac at night (all night )to sleep.

Moved to Bang Sare & because the house was built almost in the right direction -only needed a 1 hr. timed interval on the air conditioner.

When we built our house, we built it in the proper orientation so the morning sun does not come in(total shade) & the afternoon sun comes in the house for only 2 hours at most.The windows were built 100% crossflow and I stayed (came over at all times) to insure the nature of direction of the wind on the property for 10 weeks before building . We used single pane pvc coated aluminum sliders & only shut 2 of them when it rains.We have no need for an Air conditioner here. I was going to put in ac , but the only month(april) that is hot - the house is very tolerable. & we are not sitting inside anyway most of the day.We used the regular cement brick(not even the red brick(accept to fill in the gaps) 8" cement walls would create a furnace effect.

Edit: And as Kuhn Jean posted rammed earth foundations are real affective. We had a 2 story house built out of a rammed earth foundation in Portland Oregon & it was surprisingly every bit as good as any type of load bearing wall setup I have worked on or seen.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Beardog

[egg]

concrete will help keep the noise down from outside but the inside noise echo's thru the whole house ,, if l had my time againe l would build in timber(expensive) with good insulation in the walls

cheers

egg

[RubbaJohnny]

I agree about Superblock

www.superblock.co.th

I just built walls using their largest 20x20x60cm 8x8x24 inch blocks and even without roof on is cool

Price when you figure in speed and insulation from heat and noise

We built walls on aslab which is on 4 pads (earthquake zone) and later poured the Sao to amusemenyt of locals as 1st sao(column/pier/pillar happened after the wall)

The big problem with cavity here is sealing

If one dead animal/insect gets in your hosting azoo and general level of local craftsmen precludes Irish levels of finish! Also a seled roof needs ventilation

You are welcome to pm or visit before you build I got good advice from here the company sent training team and an Expat who had strted before me.

Best decision ever made.

Good luck and take your time to design to your site micro climate

West walls 5% N of true west Position of trees Alignment of house

I have only tiny glass bricks on S wall Will have double pyramid roof with vents whirlygigs and foil plus insulation.Hope to get away without fans let alone aircon except on very hottest months here.