Usa Question: Are Expats Eligible For Ssi Disability?

[Jingthing]

This only an academic question as I am not in this situation and hope I never am, but I am curious.

I don't work and hope to never work again, and am well under the social security old age program age of eligibility.

Suppose someone like me, living in Thailand, becomes disabled and unable to work?

Now I have already been told I could move back to the US and apply for social security disability benefits, even though I am retired.

So the obvious expat question is: are these payments legal to claim if you are living abroad?

Of course, the old age program is of course legal for expats to claim, but this question is about Social Security disability.

Even if expats are eligible, I am assuming you would need to go back to the USA to process an application.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[Scott]

Interesting question. You could check their web site. My understanding is that if you aren't working or haven't been (as in retired) then you might not be eligible. Some years back there was a supplemental social security income for those who had been injured and unable to work, but I don't think you sign up for it if your overseas--at least I think there are restrictions on the doctors who can certify you.

Hope some knowledgeable people respond to this. Or if you find out, post the answer.

[Jingthing]

Interesting question. You could check their web site. My understanding is that if you aren't working or haven't been (as in retired) then you might not be eligible. Some years back there was a supplemental social security income for those who had been injured and unable to work, but I don't think you sign up for it if your overseas--at least I think there are restrictions on the doctors who can certify you.

Hope some knowledgeable people respond to this. Or if you find out, post the answer.

I think each case is judged on its merits. As far as being retired "early" that is a choice people make with certain assumptions, mainly they will have enough money. If you become disabled, the picture would change and you would likely need more money (such as caregivers) and might legitimately wish to go back to work, and now you can't. As far I can tell, the only qualifiers are being genuinely disabled and having paid enough lifetime credits into the system to qualify. I wouldn't be surprised if you can't live abroad while collecting. I suspect that has something to do with continued evaluations, trying to kick people off the system if they get better.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[wolfmanjack]

I was told that once you go through the qualification process of proving you are disabled then it doesn't matter where you live. I was also told that the process normally takes about 2 years to get approved for a back injury.

[Jingthing]

I was told that once you go through the qualification process of proving you are disabled then it doesn't matter where you live. I was also told that the process normally takes about 2 years to get approved for a back injury.

Yes, I have also heard there is a strong bias to deny claims and drag it out. People quite often have to hire lawyers to appeal their cases.

[wolfmanjack]

I was told that once you go through the qualification process of proving you are disabled then it doesn't matter where you live. I was also told that the process normally takes about 2 years to get approved for a back injury.

Yes, I have also heard there is a strong bias to deny claims and drag it out. People quite often have to hire lawyers to appeal their cases.

right. and i was told that they will send you out on many minimum wage jobs that you have to get fired from to prove you can't work

[retirednavyman]

Here's a new spin on this subject guys.

My wife informed me that if you apply for SSI disability and you're not in some kind of physical therapy (apparently this is one of the questions) then you will be denied.

So the gist is in order to qualify for SSI disability, then you should be in some form of physical therapy (even if you don't get better)

[ThaiSquire]

Jingthing,

You say you do not work and that you are well under the age of retirement. If I were you I'd be going to the social security website and checking info. I do know that once you've stopped paying into the system, i.e. no "activity" for the past 40 quarters, your benefit starts to decrease. I'm not sure if it's the same for disability but if I were you I'd start checking it out. (www.ssa.gov)

I work for a state university. We do not pay into the social security system. Every year I get my benefit statement from the government my social security benefits get lower and lower.

ThaiSquire

This only an academic question as I am not in this situation and hope I never am, but I am curious.

I don't work and hope to never work again, and am well under the social security old age program age of eligibility.

Suppose someone like me, living in Thailand, becomes disabled and unable to work?

Now I have already been told I could move back to the US and apply for social security disability benefits, even though I am retired.

So the obvious expat question is: are these payments legal to claim if you are living abroad?

Of course, the old age program is of course legal for expats to claim, but this question is about Social Security disability.

Even if expats are eligible, I am assuming you would need to go back to the USA to process an application.

[Jingthing]

Jingthing,

You say you do not work and that you are well under the age of retirement. If I were you I'd be going to the social security website and checking info. I do know that once you've stopped paying into the system, i.e. no "activity" for the past 40 quarters, your benefit starts to decrease. I'm not sure if it's the same for disability but if I were you I'd start checking it out. (www.ssa.gov)

I work for a state university. We do not pay into the social security system. Every year I get my benefit statement from the government my social security benefits get lower and lower.

ThaiSquire

There are tools on the website to punch in ZERO for the rest of your normal working years to see how it reduces your theoretical benefit. Thanks. Already know about that effect.

[jstumbo]

Here's a new spin on this subject guys.

My wife informed me that if you apply for SSI disability and you're not in some kind of physical therapy (apparently this is one of the questions) then you will be denied.

So the gist is in order to qualify for SSI disability, then you should be in some form of physical therapy (even if you don't get better)

My father used to collect it about 10 years ago due to a back injury. He had to go to therapy for a while, and had to try several different jobs to see if he could do them, but in the end he could not, so he got it, and after that did not have to try any more jobs, or attend any more therapy.

[Pepe']

This only an academic question as I am not in this situation and hope I never am, but I am curious.

I don't work and hope to never work again, and am well under the social security old age program age of eligibility.

Suppose someone like me, living in Thailand, becomes disabled and unable to work?

Now I have already been told I could move back to the US and apply for social security disability benefits, even though I am retired.

So the obvious expat question is: are these payments legal to claim if you are living abroad?

Of course, the old age program is of course legal for expats to claim, but this question is about Social Security disability.

Even if expats are eligible, I am assuming you would need to go back to the USA to process an application.

=============

I have done diability evaluations and recomendations over the years.

There is much truth to what most of the posters have been saying in response to your question.

Although not a case manager or adjuster, I'm a physician, I'd say your chances are slim to none to become qualified while living in LOS.

Your best bet is to check out some websites for disability attorneys here in the US or your country of origin to become clear.

I will tell you this, I have seen many cases here in the states that I believed were legitimate, denied.

And some that were total fraud, approved. You need all your medical records and a good attorney number one...

Good Health...

[dumspero]

If the question is just whether one can collect SSI (or any other SS benefit) while living anywhere, the answer is yes.

Proving eligibility from afar is a far different matter. Agreed that maybe an immigration attorney could be useful. But God how I hate lawyers.

[Pepe']

Definitely not an immigration attorney.

You need a disabitily attoney...

[thailand_tom]

my wife who is Thai..but worked in the USA for 12 years got cancer..had her kidney removed and was ok but never the same..she was 47 years old at the time..you need to work 10 years to get ss first..anyway she was denied..i appealed the decision..it took 5 years to go before a federal judge in las Vegas..and in 5 minutes the judge gave her permanent disability..and received a lump sum from the prior 5 years since the time starts when you file the appeal..now here's what pissed me off..we went to the ss office and the guy who was handling her case asked me if i expected her to pay me back the 600 a month i was paying for insurance i said no..so he lowered her payment from 934 to 698 a month since i was supporting her..the only thing i could have done was appeal his decision..another 5 years..bit the bullet..the thing you need to do is apply in usa..and a usa doctor will have to say your disabled..and the process starts..the decision the first time was pretty fast a few months..denied.

[PeaceBlondie]

I understand there are two very separate SS disability programs.

The first is under OASDI, which is earned by SS deductions (FICA) from your wages OR paid by a self-employed person. As I recall, you are never permanently insured for the DI portion, but lose your eligibility for the DI portion if you have no wages or self employment income for many years. The rules are very strict for being permanently disabled; you must be totally disabled. If you have lived abroad or not paid FICA or SE taxes for ten years, you probably are not eligible even if you have the 40 quarters of coverage for OAS (Old Age and Survivor benefits).

The other program is SSI. Very separate. Determinations made by SS bureaucrats (my buddy used to make those in Chicago), but different rules.

I do not know about eligibility to draw either benefit while living overseas, but I imagine you would get the determination made in the States.

[Dustoff]

Times must be slow in Thialand if we need threads concerning hypothetical American Social Security situations/eligiblity.

SSI is for people who are unable to work due to a disability. Why would a retired person, who is not working anyway, want to milk the system? Is this a precursor to a phony claim from afar?

"Hi folks. I am not working, not disabled, but could you feed me information about eligibility for SSI benefits? This is only academic curiosity, of course."

[Jingthing]

Times must be slow in Thialand if we need threads concerning hypothetical American Social Security situations/eligiblity.

SSI is for people who are unable to work due to a disability. Why would a retired person, who is not working anyway, want to milk the system? Is this a precursor to a phony claim from afar?

"Hi folks. I am not working, not disabled, but could you feed me information about eligibility for SSI benefits? This is only academic curiosity, of course."

Of course, not. I was figuring some outrageous charge like this would crawl out of the woodwork!

If this happened, it wouldn't be to milk the system. I was talking about a case of a genuine disability. These things happen (disabilities), and I am curious. So sue me, or if you think it is obscure, don't read the thread.

I had already assumed you couldn't file a claim from abroad, but I was mainly wondering if people were getting SS disability, whether they could legally live in Thailand and collect it, as people on old age SS can and do by the tens of thousands. Good day.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

f you have lived abroad or not paid FICA or SE taxes for ten years, you probably are not eligible even if you have the 40 quarters of coverage for OAS (Old Age and Survivor benefits).

PB, if I understand you correctly, you think that you can lose your eligibility for the old age SS benefit if you are out of the workforce too long. If that is the case, I think you are wrong. This is a much bigger issue (more people effected) than the hypothetical question in this thread. The annual statement we receive makes it clear whether or not you have met the minimum lifetime working quarters to be eligible for the program. In my case, I used the online social security calculator and entered ZERO years until 62 and the benefit was still there, reduced of course. I welcome other opinions about this.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Jingthing

[Dustoff]

Of course, not. I was figuring some outrageous charge like this would crawl out of the woodwork!

If this happened, it wouldn't be to milk the system. I was talking about a case of a genuine disability. These things happen (disabilities), and I am curious. So sue me, or if you think it is obscure, don't read the thread.

I had already assumed you couldn't file a claim from abroad, but I was mainly wondering if people were getting SS disability, whether they could legally live in Thailand and collect it, as people on old age SS can and do by the tens of thousands. Good day.

Oh, don't get your panties all in a knot, little feller. There is a huge difference between an 'outrageous charge' and questioning the possible motives of such an odd post.

I collected SSI here in Thailand for many years, until recently when I turned 65 and it automatically turned over to retirement SS which is the same benefit amount. From what I can see, your original questions have already been answered, or indicate that you should be getting your information from a reliable source - but then those 'reliable sources' are not usually interested in handing out information to those who, like you, have no need for it. There are likely more scam artists out there trying the system's patience than qualified individuals so questions about intent are bound to arise.

There are Social Security reps both here in the CM Consulate and the Embassy in BKK. I am sure they can and will assist with claims and recommend medical professionals for diagnosis of legitimate claims.

And a 'good day' to you, sir.

[Jingthing]

So, the answer to the question is yes, you can legally collect disability while living outside the US? That sounds very fair. I still think your charge of intentions of fraud was outrageous, and based on nothing.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Jingthing

[Dustoff]

So, the answer to the question is yes, you can legally collect disability while living outside the US? That sounds very fair. I still think your charge of intentions of fraud was outrageous, and based on nothing.

"Frankly my dear, I don't give a dam_n.."

[retirednavyman]

This only an academic question as I am not in this situation and hope I never am, but I am curious.

I don't work and hope to never work again, and am well under the social security old age program age of eligibility.

Suppose someone like me, living in Thailand, becomes disabled and unable to work?

Now I have already been told I could move back to the US and apply for social security disability benefits, even though I am retired.

So the obvious expat question is: are these payments legal to claim if you are living abroad?

Of course, the old age program is of course legal for expats to claim, but this question is about Social Security disability.

Even if expats are eligible, I am assuming you would need to go back to the USA to process an application.

=============

I have done diability evaluations and recomendations over the years.

There is much truth to what most of the posters have been saying in response to your question.

Although not a case manager or adjuster, I'm a physician, I'd say your chances are slim to none to become qualified while living in LOS.

Your best bet is to check out some websites for disability attorneys here in the US or your country of origin to become clear.

I will tell you this, I have seen many cases here in the states that I believed were legitimate, denied.

And some that were total fraud, approved. You need all your medical records and a good attorney number one...

Good Health...

Hi Pepe,

My sister-in-law applied twice for social security disability and she lives in the state of Georgia by the way. She suffers from severe fibromyalgia and is wheelchair bound. She lost her case on the first application and won on the 2nd application, I guess it pretty much goes by the state you live in.

Regards

[Jingthing]

f you have lived abroad or not paid FICA or SE taxes for ten years, you probably are not eligible even if you have the 40 quarters of coverage for OAS (Old Age and Survivor benefits).

PB, if I understand you correctly, you think that you can lose your eligibility for the old age SS benefit if you are out of the workforce too long. If that is the case, I think you are wrong. This is a much bigger issue (more people effected) than the hypothetical question in this thread. The annual statement we receive makes it clear whether or not you have met the minimum lifetime working quarters to be eligible for the program. In my case, I used the online social security calculator and entered ZERO years until 62 and the benefit was still there, reduced of course. I welcome other opinions about this.

It seems I misread PB's comment here. I don't think he was talking about the standard old age social security benefit. Once you have earned enough credits, you are eligible for good, though of course the benefit amount increases with increased credits, but this article indicates not as much as most people think!

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/soc_security.html

Edited May 19, 2008 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks, Jingthing, for doing more research and understanding my earlier post, which may have been phrased poorly.

We are discussing at least two things: SS disability payments for total and permanent disability under OASDI law; and SSI. I made the point that OASDI has many separate coverages, and that you lose your eligibility for DI payments after about ten years, even if you meet the 40 quarters of FICA/SE payments for retirement.

Because this is an expat forum, I like to remind potential retirees under OASDI that each year you do not pay into the system reduces your final retirement income. In pension parlance, SS retirement is calculated on your "High 35" years, adjusted for inflation. I believe that Americans who are now under age 62, who have stayed in Thailand for the last ten years without paying FICA or SE tax, have lost their eligibility for SS disability (through OASDI), and greatly reduced their retirement benefits.

[wallacern]

Of course, not. I was figuring some outrageous charge like this would crawl out of the woodwork!

If this happened, it wouldn't be to milk the system. I was talking about a case of a genuine disability. These things happen (disabilities), and I am curious. So sue me, or if you think it is obscure, don't read the thread.

I had already assumed you couldn't file a claim from abroad, but I was mainly wondering if people were getting SS disability, whether they could legally live in Thailand and collect it, as people on old age SS can and do by the tens of thousands. Good day.

Oh, don't get your panties all in a knot, little feller. There is a huge difference between an 'outrageous charge' and questioning the possible motives of such an odd post.

I collected SSI here in Thailand for many years, until recently when I turned 65 and it automatically turned over to retirement SS which is the same benefit amount. From what I can see, your original questions have already been answered, or indicate that you should be getting your information from a reliable source - but then those 'reliable sources' are not usually interested in handing out information to those who, like you, have no need for it. There are likely more scam artists out there trying the system's patience than qualified individuals so questions about intent are bound to arise.

There are Social Security reps both here in the CM Consulate and the Embassy in BKK. I am sure they can and will assist with claims and recommend medical professionals for diagnosis of legitimate claims.

And a 'good day' to you, sir.

I inquired at the US embassy in Bangkok last week about applying for SS disability. They said they do not handle any SS business. They sent me a three page form to fill out and fax to the embassy in Manila. It looks like the VA office at the embassy in Manila is handling the SS affairs of US citizens in Asia.

Mike

[jfchandler]

I think Jing raises a very good point..as follows....

I also retired early here...and have investments and a future govt. pension I can draw in the near future or later.... So...in the normal, regular world... I think I've planned ahead well... And I worked long enough in the U.S. to more than qualify for SS benefits in the future.

However, things can change... My mother in the U.S. has multiple sclerosis, and has had it for many years... Basically, she now requires pretty much full time care for a variety of reasons... My elderly father can do some...but...it really requires care givers and nurses... And fortunately, he made insurance arrangements years ago, along with their own income and retirements, to cover them pretty well about that... But my Mom will require that kind of care for the rest of her life...

So, it started me to thinking here about that... And I talked to my Thai insurance agent here, only to be told... Thailand companies don't offer what Americans would call Long Term Disability policies. Instead, my agent here pointed me to a life insurance policy with long-term disability benefits.

Meanwhile, I have an ex in the U.S. who's an insurance broker.. And..in talking with her about it the other day, she indicated there are a couple of large international insurance companies, such as AIG, that offer international long-term disability policies. So, when I see her in the States in a month or so, she'll probably give me some details about that...

I had a long term disability policy when I was working in state Govt. in California, and I could have paid to keep it even after I left state employment... But...I found there was a BIG rub..... that Cal PERS policy would only pay benefits in the event I was disabled and living INSIDE the United States... They wouldn't pay anything for care in Thailand, which of course, would be significantly less expensive than in the U.S. So... it seemed... not much point in keeping and paying for such a policy.

Bottom line: a major chronic illness or disability can RADICALLY change your financial picture unless you have very carefully prepared and guarded against that....

[bunta71]

Where to start...

First I am legally and totally disabled and collecting my SSD benefits here in Thailand . There are a few countries where you cannot live and draw your benefits. Viet Nam, Cambodia, and Laos being a few and some others are small post soviet block countries. If you attempt to move to Indochina and still think no one will know, Think a little harder. They have these things now called computers and they track your entries and exits in and out of countries. There are people who have been cut off from their payments and after moving out of those countries,were allowed payments again, with no back pay. The social security website now talks about perhaps allowing payments in some of these countries in the near future, but nothing concrete yet.Interesting but if you check the first many responses to this thread, most begin with"I've been told" or " I have heard"

Applying for Social Security Disability is or can be a nightmare. Doing it without an attorney specializing in this field is foolish and a waste of time.Much like trying to represent yourself in your own divorce court. All American systems want you to play the game while paying attorneys. I paid an attorney who specialized in these matters and they can collect by law on 25% of your initial award up to $5,000. My case was accomplished with a final decision in three months, and they deducted the attorney fees from my first check, which was about $380 total. Money well spent. After approval they put you into three categories for review for future possible recovery. One category is you will never recover,blind,paraplegic,for example,The other two are three and five years respectively. Mine will be three years into it. If overseas ,they will send a letter for your doctor to fill out attesting to whether or not in his opinion your are completely disabled. I could write a book but that's all fffolks

[Dustoff]

I inquired at the US embassy in Bangkok last week about applying for SS disability. They said they do not handle any SS business. They sent me a three page form to fill out and fax to the embassy in Manila. It looks like the VA office at the embassy in Manila is handling the SS affairs of US citizens in Asia.

Mike

Good point - which brings up a point I made earlier. One is likely to get more cooperation and up-to-date information if there is actually a pressing need.

My info on availability of SS reps at the Consulate and Embassy is admittedly dated. A couple of years ago, the SS rep at the Chiang Mai Consulate helped me with questions and even contacted the Social Securtiy Administration for me. She, at the time, informed me that there was also a SS rep at the Embassy in Bangkok.

While it may be reasonable to make arrangements and count on specifics of an insurance policy, it is not reasonable to assume that whatever information you get about US government policies and procedures today, especially out-of-country, will still be accurate when you actually become disabled. Everything changes!

I don't know how extensive the SS services are in Manilla but I did contact them about a year ago about a serious snafu and was amazed that the rep could pull up my file on his computer and correct the problem within minutes. It is certainly possible that all SS assistance has been moved to Manila and there is just as real a chance that that will change again sometime in the near future.

Kudos to most posters on this thread - it has stayed pretty much on topic which is rare indeed.

[PeaceBlondie]

It does appear that the VARO in Manila not only covers Thailand for the main VA issues, but for SSA issues, as well. Inquiries about expatriate matters, to the SS toll-free number in the States, wasted me much time and money (even the calls are not toll free), and I was mis-advised and ill-informed. Manila knows its stuff. All the Chiang Mai consulate could do for me in Sept. 2005 was to forward my application (for SS retirement) in the diplomatic pouch to Manila.

[cathyy]

Peaceblondie is right. There are two separate programs. People living overseas cannot collect the one we usually call SSI. They can collect Social Security Disability.