Anti-depressants - Fluoride Factor

[awakened]

Some years ago, I experienced a stressful life event which knocked me off my perch and was prescribed Seroxat for depression. I took it off and on for 3 and a half years.

Just came across this article http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-0...luorophenyl.htm which states that Seroxat contains fluoride, which has a number of adverse effects. These adverse effects seem consistent with symptoms I am still experiencing.

I have tried umpteen different approaches over the years in trying to overcome anxiety and tension without success and the question that this article raises in my mind is... have I been wasting my time?

Is the fluoride still in my body, hampering or preventing a full recovery?

I would appreciate it if you medical sleuths out there, could interpret the medical jargon and give an opinion?

Thanks.

[JSixpack]

Some years ago, I experienced a stressful life event which knocked me off my perch and was prescribed Seroxat for depression. I took it off and on for 3 and a half years.

Just came across this article http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-0...luorophenyl.htm which states that Seroxat contains fluoride, which has a number of adverse effects. These adverse effects seem consistent with symptoms I am still experiencing.

I have tried umpteen different approaches over the years in trying to overcome anxiety and tension without success and the question that this article raises in my mind is... have I been wasting my time?

Is the fluoride still in my body, hampering or preventing a full recovery?

I would appreciate it if you medical sleuths out there, could interpret the medical jargon and give an opinion?

Thanks.

In short, no.

What exactly are the adverse effects, how exactly are they consistent with your symptoms, and how could flouride be causing them, esp. since your thyroid hormone leves are normal? Why would the flouride be coming only from previous use of Seroxat and not from water, toothpaste, and pesticides?

[geriatrickid]

Is the fluoride still in my body, hampering or preventing a full recovery?

When was your last dose and how much were you taking? Did you have any underlying health problems and was the drug taken with other drugs that they should not have been taken with?

If it's been over a year, all the product is long gone. Your liver and kidneys metabolized it out of you.

[tim armstrong]

Some years ago, I experienced a stressful life event which knocked me off my perch and was prescribed Seroxat for depression. I took it off and on for 3 and a half years.

Just came across this article http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-0...luorophenyl.htm which states that Seroxat contains fluoride, which has a number of adverse effects. These adverse effects seem consistent with symptoms I am still experiencing.

I have tried umpteen different approaches over the years in trying to overcome anxiety and tension without success and the question that this article raises in my mind is... have I been wasting my time?

Is the fluoride still in my body, hampering or preventing a full recovery?

I would appreciate it if you medical sleuths out there, could interpret the medical jargon and give an opinion?

Thanks.

Depression and anxiety are indeed often closely linked, but they are not the same condition. Anxiety has been described as 'worry about something that might happen'. It sounds to me that you have some anxiety about fluoride which is probably unfounded as previous responses suggest. You may well be anxious about many other things as well, and even have developed some habitually negative ways of responding to stressful events.

The good news is that now, treating anxiety (and many types of depression) can be done with either drug or non pharmaceutical approaches or a combination of both, -very successfully. Send me a PM if you would like some further discussion. Tim

[JSixpack]

Depression and anxiety are indeed often closely linked, but they are not the same condition. Anxiety has been described as 'worry about something that might happen'. It sounds to me that you have some anxiety about fluoride which is probably unfounded as previous responses suggest. You may well be anxious about many other things as well, and even have developed some habitually negative ways of responding to stressful events.

The good news is that now, treating anxiety (and many types of depression) can be done with either drug or non pharmaceutical approaches or a combination of both, -very successfully. Send me a PM if you would like some further discussion. Tim

Good response. The anxiety feeds on paranoia about pharmaceutical companies and an FDA conspiracy. Ultimately there may be irrational guilt there at previously needing and taking pharmaceuticals. Any further use of a commercial product will simply feed into it. Hence, the solution has to be "natural," "homeopathic" and "alternative." Probably some local Chinese herbalist can whip up a special "flouride purge" and that will that. And the alternative medicine practitioners can offer years and years of other satisfying remedies. Initially some aromatherapy and a good colonic irrigation may be in order. Then there's getting rid of all the dental amalgam, chelation therapy, macriobiotics, copper bracelets, flax seed oil, raw vegetable/fruit/succulent plant mixes, etc.

Edited May 19, 2008 by JSixpack

[geriatrickid]

Probably some local Chinese herbalist can whip up a special "flouride purge" and that will that. If the subject has have doubts about the pharma industry how can you then recommend that he put his trust in a potion of which you have no knowledge of the source components. For all you know, that potion might contain substances far more toxic then those that he is worried about.

And the alternative medicine practitioners can offer years and years of other satisfying remedies. Initially some aromatherapy and a good colonic irrigation may be in order.

And how is colonic irrigation going to address behavioural issues or a chemical imbalance? If the worry is about the toxicity of medication , how can one recommend that the subject place liquids in areas where they were not intended to go. Perhaps some quiet contemplation and a good brisk walk combined with a balanced diet would do far more good than a colonic irrigation. Sometimes the most effective treatment regimens are based upon common sense.

Then there's getting rid of all the dental amalgam,

Dental amalgam has been extensively studied since the allegations about its toxicity were raised in the 90's. What both those opposed to and in favour of agree upon is that the removal of amalgam fillings presents a greater risk then in leaving them alone. You know why? Because you have to drill them out and that's when you get the particulate, the dust and the debris.

One of the biggest myths out there is that the new resin fillins are somewhow safer and less toxic. There's a thread going in the ladies section over plastics and bisphenol-A. If people are going to panic over neglible amounts in a plastic bottle, imagine the heart palpitations when they discover what dental composite resins are made of.

Edited May 19, 2008 by geriatrickid

[Sheryl]

Some years ago, I experienced a stressful life event which knocked me off my perch and was prescribed Seroxat for depression. I took it off and on for 3 and a half years.

Just came across this article http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-0...luorophenyl.htm which states that Seroxat contains fluoride, which has a number of adverse effects. These adverse effects seem consistent with symptoms I am still experiencing.

I have tried umpteen different approaches over the years in trying to overcome anxiety and tension without success and the question that this article raises in my mind is... have I been wasting my time?

Is the fluoride still in my body, hampering or preventing a full recovery?

I would appreciate it if you medical sleuths out there, could interpret the medical jargon and give an opinion?

Thanks.

I am unclear as to:

- whether you are still taking Serxat? And if not, how long ago you stopped?

- what the "symptoms"that you are experiencing are?

I wouldn't put much stock in the particular weblink you mention, but certainly all medications can and do have side effects. If you can answer the above 2 points I can advise better as to whether or not these are possible adverse effects to the drug.

Overcoming anxiety and stress is a whole other question and a complex one. Need to be aware that,as Tim indicated, anxiety and depression are not at all the same things (altho the same person can have both).

[awakened]

The posts, links or summaries I make are sourced from doctors, scientists, concerned individuals and alternative practitioners, who I assume aren't suffering from 'anxiety'.

My symptoms have been posted in a previous thread and several posters suggested the thyroid as a problem. The article states that ALL fluorides inhibit thyroid hormones. Seems pretty unequivocal to me. Perhaps you didn't read it? (I'm impressed that jsixpack knows my thyroid level.)

I would like to exclude it as a factor. That is all.

I'm well aware that there are other sources of fluoride such as when showering, soft drinks, sodas, pharmaceuticals, toothpaste and more. I focussed on Seroxat, since there was a clear cause-effect between taking the drug and feeling 'like a zombie'. i.e. a far greater concentration of fluoride.

Fluoride is difficult to remove from drinking water, it must also be difficult to remove from cells. Why not exclude this possibility on the basis of good science, rather than opinion, since this is what you demand of the alternative crowd. Can anyone provide a link to a published study (one that isn't tainted) explaining how fluoride is removed from the body?

The following list is by no means complete but two of my symptoms jumped out:- Joint pain, damaged gastric mucosa.

'That list of dangers to humans reads like a medical dictionary such are the effects noted in scientific papers from around the world. These include collagen disruption leading to breakdown of collagen in bone, tendon, muscle, skin, cartilage, lungs, kidney and trachea, and the inhibition of antibody formation in the blood and confusion of the immune system.

Fluoride kills red blood cells and damages gastric mucosa resulting in the symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome. It is implicated in genetic disorders, low IQ levels in children, pre-senile dementia and Alzheimer's disease, premature ageing and thyroid disorders due to its disruption of iodine in the body. Fluorides have also been used as drugs for modifying human behaviour and moods.

It has also been argued that fluoride increases cancer rates. In a recent study it was found that, pro-rata, 40% more people contracted bone cancer in the Republic of Ireland, which is fluoridated, compared with non-fluoridated but otherwise similar Northern Ireland.'

'It has now come out that most of the fluoride we've been injecting into our drinking water is silicofluoride, a substance that has never been tested or approved by any federal agency. And where does it come from? It is a fluoride-containing air pollutant emission captured by smokestack "scrubber" equipment at phosphate fertilizer factories. If it is emitted into the air it is a pollutant; if it is discharged into a lake or river, it is a pollutant; it is regulated by EPA as a water "contaminant;" but if it is placed in our drinking water and we ingest it into our bodies, it is somehow called a "nutrient." Because of the industrial processes and raw material used as its source, the fluoride also comes contaminated with radioactive uranium decay compounds, arsenic, lead, and mercury.

People hearing this are shocked. "Why weren't we told this?" they ask. Well, we were … but not really. Buried in many water agencies' water quality reports amongst a dizzying list of chemical names is a little-observed statement that the source of the "contaminant" fluoride is "discharge from fertilizer and aluminum factories."

---------------------

Many countries do not fluoridize their water since it has never been shown that fluoride prevents tooth decay and they believe their citizens should not be forcefully medicated, in any event.

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Thank you, Tim. As far as psychological approaches go, I've tried several non-drug approaches, which have just cost me money, while achieving little. The practitioners all believed wholeheartedly in their approach. I didn't, unlike some, dismiss them as 'quacks' but I will need some persuading to go down that route again.

---------------------

As to conspiracies or being anti-establishment. Absolutely. I am anti-junk science, anti-treatments that harm patients and anti-the suppression of alternatives. I have made it clear that until the medical profession rediscover the art of healing and not simply treating, they do not have my confidence. An intermediary between the drug peddling pharmas and the consumer I don't need. Is that too much to ask?

When you explore the business, social and political influences of medicine it is far more enlightening than arguing over whether Free T4 is an effective indicator of Thyroid problems.

The issue of diagnosis is problematic. There are so many possible causes for the same set of symptoms that it is bewildering. No wonder doctors don't always get it right and no wonder I have been running around in circles.

I am attracted to the naturopathic approach which doesn't rely so much on diagnosis and instead cleans the body (detox), balances the PH, oxygenates the cells, provides proper nutrients and then sees if there is anything left that needs addressing. There are some enlightened doctors who are exploring these alternatives, since they too have lost confidence in the system. If I could find one of these good doctors I wouldn't be posting on message boards.

The fluoride issue can also be addressed another way. If you cannot control the input, then ensure the body is strong and healthy enough to fully excrete it.

I have found a site which explains how to remove fluoride from the body and am looking into it.

Hope that clarifies.

[awakened]

I am unclear as to:

- whether you are still taking Serxat? And if not, how long ago you stopped?

No. I stopped several years ago.

- what the "symptoms"that you are experiencing are?

As described when you suggested Tropical Sprue, plus latest post.

'Probably some local Chinese herbalist can whip up a special "flouride purge" and that will that.'

Wouldn't try it myself.

And the alternative medicine practitioners can offer years and years of other satisfying remedies. Initially some aromatherapy and a good colonic irrigation may be in order.

Sounds like you are mocking. It isn't common sense to just rely on a few colonics, which push water under pressure into the bowel, which I don't believe is a good idea. They also don't clean the whole elimination channel. Saying that...

‘After 20 years of clinical experience, Dr Schulze found that 80% of all maladies, whether acne, arthritis, multiple chemical sensitivity, or cancer were cleared up within two weeks of cleaning the bowel’

Just another 'quack' I expect.

And how is colonic irrigation going to address behavioural issues or a chemical imbalance?

Why the narrow focus on colonics? Natural practitioners have complete protocols.

Then there's getting rid of all the dental amalgam,

I agree. It's risky but I was pleased to have mine whipped out. I no longer have that awful metal taste when I eat. The dental industry is never going to produce a study that shows amalgam fillings are toxic. They would be sued out of existence. Irrespective of the argument, does common sense not suggest that every time you scrape the surface of a mercury filling, some vapour may be given off?

Why put this incredibly toxic metal into people's mouths in the first place?

I think you need to draw the line between natural approaches which are officially sanctioned in other countries and being suppressed in the west and the host of quick fix 'treatments' that have sprung up, which will clearly achieve very little and may be harmful. The OTC Aloe Vera market has already been mentioned.

Let me stress again that there are times when Allopathic treatment is a godsend. When I rushed to Bumrungrad at 2 a.m. in agony, I was grateful for the painkiller which relieved the terrible pain in my intestines fairly quickly.

I have also tried to find a proper diagnosis and a cure for digestive ailments using the Allopathic system and it has failed. What would you have me do? Keep treating the symptoms and take progressively more drugs? Great for the bottom line and keeping doctors kids in college but it does nothing for me. Nothing at all. It's ridiculous for you to condemn other approaches when your own methods don't work.

There are 6000 doctors in Germany using Ozone successfully, the British Royal family protected Homeopathoic medicine from attack, which is 'energetic' medicine, other forms of which are becoming popular. I have seen the 'Nature Cure' centres in India which cure people without a drug or machine to be found. Ayurvedic medicine is regaining popularity in India due to a steady stream of westerners seeking non-harmful healing. India trains Ayurvedic Doctors for over 5 and a half years before they can practice. Russian hospitals 'fast' patients before treatments.

Outcome comparisons aren't done between Industrialised and non-Industrialised nations medical systems since the Industrialised nations would be at the bottom of the tables.

[edwardandtubs]

What evidence do you have linking fluoride to your supposed symptoms? My guess is some scammy health scare website. The web is awash with these scam websites that exploit people with limited medical knowledge. There are also websites claiming that toothpaste causes AIDS and drinking your own "golden fountain" cures cancer but do you believe them?

Edited May 19, 2008 by edwardandtubs

[awakened]

What evidence do you have linking fluoride to your supposed symptoms? My guess is some scammy health scare website. The web is awash with these scam websites that exploit people with limited medical knowledge. There are also websites claiming that toothpaste causes AIDS and drinking your own "golden fountain" cures cancer but do you believe them?

What do you mean by 'supposed' symptoms? Guesses I don't need. And no, I don't believe everything I read.

[wade72]

I am no expert, but one thing that squashes the alternative of anti Western medical model, look at life expectancies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...life_expectancy

With very few exceptions, the top of the list is developed countries that have allot of them terrible hospitals in them. Also in the past 150 years life expectancy has gone up not down. They used allot of alternative medicine 150 years ago.

‘After 20 years of clinical experience, Dr Schulze found that 80% of all maladies, whether acne, arthritis, multiple chemical sensitivity, or cancer were cleared up within two weeks of cleaning the bowel’

Cancer? You’re kidding right? I am not saying that there is no chance of benefits from having a colonic, but really CANCER, in two weeks after a good back door scrubbing? Well if it works great I would be VERY happy if I could have sent a couple family and friends for a flushing if that was all it was going to take.

By the way, an enema is normal practice before they stick the camera where it’s a not ment to go, if it was the cure, I would assume that there would be allot of miraculous recoveries.

[edwardandtubs]

What evidence do you have linking fluoride to your supposed symptoms? My guess is some scammy health scare website. The web is awash with these scam websites that exploit people with limited medical knowledge. There are also websites claiming that toothpaste causes AIDS and drinking your own "golden fountain" cures cancer but do you believe them?

What do you mean by 'supposed' symptoms? Guesses I don't need. And no, I don't believe everything I read.

We can only "suppose" you have symptoms as you haven't explained what they are. And you clearly are guessing as you have no evidence that fluoride is responsible for these "symptoms". And it seems you're willing to believe most "alternative wellness" quackery, including that squirting water up your bum is going to cure everything. If that's the case why don't you just do that to cure your "symptoms"?

Edited May 19, 2008 by edwardandtubs

[awakened]

I am no expert, but one thing that squashes the alternative of anti Western medical model, look at life expectancies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...life_expectancy

With very few exceptions, the top of the list is developed countries that have allot of them terrible hospitals in them. Also in the past 150 years life expectancy has gone up not down. They used allot of alternative medicine 150 years ago.

'After 20 years of clinical experience, Dr Schulze found that 80% of all maladies, whether acne, arthritis, multiple chemical sensitivity, or cancer were cleared up within two weeks of cleaning the bowel'

Cancer? You're kidding right? I am not saying that there is no chance of benefits from having a colonic, but really CANCER, in two weeks after a good back door scrubbing? Well if it works great I would be VERY happy if I could have sent a couple family and friends for a flushing if that was all it was going to take.

By the way, an enema is normal practice before they stick the camera where it's a not ment to go, if it was the cure, I would assume that there would be allot of miraculous recoveries.

Thanks for pointing that out. I doubt if one enema alone constitutes cleaning the bowel and I believe he's referring primarily to bowel cancer.

I checked Dr. Richard Schulze profile and site and there was no mention of this particular quote. I found the original link here... http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/detox/clean.htm

The life expectancy stats are no surprise and I don't feel in the least bit 'squashed'. Industrialised countries tend towards diseases of affluence, opposed to diseases of poverty. In countries where safety standards are lax, there are more deaths in the workplace, from diseases such as malaria, from copious numbers of bombs being dropped on their heads, from poisoned water, (i.e drinking water being contaminated with effluent), lack of hygiene, childbirth, parasites, starvation, pneumonia, lack of emergency care and being sat on by the village water buffalo.

In the west, we are living longer yet suffering the common diseases of affluence. How many people over 50 do you know who don't have some medical issue, be it degenerative disorders, heart disease, obesity, cancer, diabetes, arthritis? I checked with my neighbours. They all have something.

As to the horrible hospitals, I'm sure you are right. Lack of funding, medicines and expertise all contribute. That backward country Britain has some of the worst

I had 5 enemas when I had my colonic.. couldn't drink the vile potion they gave me.

[edwardandtubs]

Warning! Toothpaste causes AIDS: http://www.healthy-communications.com/toxi..._cause_aids.htm

Not to worry! Your own Golden Fountain can cure it! http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/urine.htm

It says so on wellness websites so it must be true!

[wade72]

Actually on the golden fountain cure. There is one thing I heard about years ago and it sounded likely. My father was in the Caribbean at a resort, out swimming a guy stepped on a sea urchin. One of the local guys told him to pee on. He wouldn’t and thought it was revolting and his foot swelled up like a watermelon.

So the theory hasn’t been tested, but if ammonia, amino acid, or some other substance in urine neutralizes the toxins from the sea urchin spines it is very possible that it might work.

[wade72]

Surprise surprise. Golden fountain people selling a book on there website.

AIDS causing toothpaste people trying to sign up MLM reps. Since I am sure there products have had better research and more money dumped into R&D then say Crest, or Colgate.

I’m sure that the two mentioned companies above are trying kill all of there customers to promote some evil plan for total world domination.

Then Dr. Evil will have all of our Mojo. Unfortunately his teeth will look the same as Austin Powers, with a yellow stain on them.

[awakened]

Surprise surprise. Golden fountain people selling a book on there website.

AIDS causing toothpaste people trying to sign up MLM reps. Since I am sure there products have had better research and more money dumped into R&D then say Crest, or Colgate.

I'm sure that the two mentioned companies above are trying kill all of there customers to promote some evil plan for total world domination.

Then Dr. Evil will have all of our Mojo. Unfortunately his teeth will look the same as Austin Powers, with a yellow stain on them.

You seem to be taking the p**s

If it's good enough for Prime Ministers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morarji_Desai

Well, well, well. It's even used in First Aid. Eaten any pretzels lately?

Urea: -

• An additive ingredient in cigarettes, designed to enhance flavour
  
• A browning agent in factory-produced pretzels
  
• An ingredient in some hair conditioners, facial cleansers, bath oils, and lotions
  
• A reactant in some ready-to-use cold compresses for first-aid use, due to the endothermic reaction it creates when mixed with water
  
• An ingredient in many tooth whitening products
  
• A cream to soften the skin, especially cracked skin on the bottom of one's feet
  
• An ingredient in dish soap.
  

There are many stories of people surviving by drinking their own urine.

Balanced article...

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/h...ine_Therapy.htm

There is sufficient doubt about the quality of scientific research these days that I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

The warning to parents about children swallowing toothpaste is a bit of a clue, don't you think?

I dip my toothbrush in Hydrogen Peroxide (20THB from the pharmacy) mixed with a little (dissolved) baking soda (12THB) in most shops. Cheapest tooth whitener there is.

[wade72]

I wonder what he used to brush his teeth after drinking his own p*ss. I'm sure his wife was really more then happy to kiss him after his daily "medial" treatment.

[awakened]

I wonder what he used to brush his teeth after drinking his own p*ss. I'm sure his wife was really more then happy to kiss him after his daily "medial" treatment.

Probably washed it down with a Chicken Biriani. Why do you care?