250 Prisoners Crammed In One Boiling Hot Room.

[indiefan]

If you can get an intelligent Thai person to do it for you, it will cost a lot less and no one will get offended.

I don't think that I would offer anything myself unless they asked me. Too easy to make the situation worse unless you speak Thai like Joe Cummings!

Seems to make sense... where would I find one of those? ;0 I know no thai's here at all so how would I broach the subject? If its to the point where I'm going to be visiting the station, I'm not really concerned with getting a deal as much as getting out of that situation.

There was a huge rally in Bangkok today at Democracy Monument, someone I believe told me it was protesting the police corruption and abuses. People looked pretty riled up. Heh, then I did the smart thing and took side streets around that mess.

[jumnien]

Maybe there should be a plexiglass box at the airport where rich tourists could safely dispose of their unused heroin before boarding their planes home!

[papajohn]

Hi, can someone post something reassuring me that simply being in Thailand and enjoying what the country has to offer won't land me in jail for 3 years? This thread has freaked me out. I have not broken any laws nor do I intend to, but it seems like that does not really matter. Almost makes me want to leave.

Hi Indiefan, and welcome to Chiang Mai and Thailand. I hope your visit is all you expected. It is a wonderful country with very little crime. The negative posts you are reading are opinions nothing else, no facts as you can see. You have nothing the be worried about during your visit. You will not be in danger on the streets and the people are friendly and helpful. Thailand has a very special and helpful division of the Royal Thai Police especially for visitors. It is called "The Tourist Police" The officers are trained to help visitors, most can speak good English. The Thais have also asked some "expats" ( people from foriegn countries who enjoy living here ) to assist them in helping you during your visit. We are not police officers, we are travel helpers. There are so many visitors from Europe and other places, the Thais need help from us with language in helping the tourists if there is a problem. We are volunteers who live here and give service and help when needed. I work with Dutch, French, German, Japanees, Chinese, Korean and many other people who are willing to give the Tourist Police help with a problem. We have a hot line telephone number "1155" if you need assistance with a problem. We will be there quickly to help you.

Please relax and enjoy all that Thailand offers and enjoy your stay. Sawadee Kup.

[Ulysses G.]

Hi Indiefan, and welcome to Chiang Mai and Thailand. It is a ... country with very little crime.

[JimsKnight]

I would not have signed.

I was stoned one time and had some ganja in my pocket (UK). I saw a cop car coming but I threw it onto the street. They found it and connected it with me, and then took me to the station.

They took me into a room and tried to act friendly, stating that I would be released as long as I signed their bit of paper saying it was my ganja. I refused and said I have no idea what they were talking about . They said if I sign, I walk, if not they will put me in a cell. I said 'go for it'.

5 hours later (I believe the maximum time they can hold you w/o charge) they opened the door of the cell and told me to piss off

When I was young (18 or so) I uncharacteristically stole a packet of sandwiches from a shop while drunk. I ran off but the cops caught up with me and again I threw them away before they caught me. The cops were laughing about how I was not going to able to enjoy my sandwiches in the cells, and were waving the packet in my face as I was cuffed in the car.

At the station they started the same "sign this" crap again. I refused all knowledge of any sandwiches and signed nothing. I spent a night in the cells and was released the next day without charge.

Nowadays I don't smoke dope (or nick chicken sandwiches while inebriated), but I also don't have a criminal record stating 'THIEF' & 'DRUG USER' all because I didn't sign anything.

It is hard enough getting a job nowadays with a clean record !

Long story but the thai cops had me in on suspected insurance fraud and burgalry!

It wasn't insurance fraud or burgalry by any stretch.

I'd had had money and goods stolen but the police station wouldn't issue a police report (another story) in that province.

So claiming on insurance seemed pretty impossible until I hit on the bright idea of simply reporting it in another provinces turf and claiming it had happened there....

I got to this said province, spent the night there and mossied on into the cop shop and told them a tried getting another police report done. Big mistake!

The guy in charge of the station there was this real fat fcker, looking back I should of figured it was a very long shot to pull off with fatso in charge but I was in my 20s and thought I was invincible back then.

They started checking all kinds of sht out, where I was staying and what was taken, speaking to the owners of the place, They emptied out my bags checking to see what was there, looking for all sorts.

They got my laptop and the receipt was still in the case. They started asking if I stole it and started asking me when I bought it and for how much (checking the amounts carefully). Telling the truth got me through that test.

They got hold of my passport and started asking me for my DOB, Place of Birth etc etc

Then they started dialing numbers....

They must of made phone calls to every major tourist province's immigration section and then some but luckily not the one I'd lodged my initial report with.

In no uncertain terms they reckoned I might be a farang thief who was on the make in Thailand!

Then came the silent treatment, just looking at me and staring. I know it sounds arrogant and boastful on TV telling all this but I held my nerve for my first time every being grilled by the cops and kept it cool and collected.

I knew they were gonna try and hit me for cash or a confession but just played it like the gray man and stared at the wall for 2 hrs. Eventually after just ignoring them and waiting, playing the tourist in trouble they packed all my stuff back up and told me I was free to go. I asked for a police report and was told.

'I not sure, I not sure' was his final outcome, eying me like a some fat lion views his next target.

I was out of the province the next day

[baboon]

Sign it and forget about Thailand. Leave the country and move to another place with nice women and beaches.

could be difficult if the Police have kept your passport........

And dont for one minute think your Embassy is going to send in the SAS/Delta force on your behalf either. You mean nothing to them.

[jfchandler]

Hi, can someone post something reassuring me that simply being in Thailand and enjoying what the country has to offer won't land me in jail for 3 years? This thread has freaked me out. I have not broken any laws nor do I intend to, but it seems like that does not really matter. Almost makes me want to leave.

Hi Indiefan, and welcome to Chiang Mai and Thailand. I hope your visit is all you expected. It is a wonderful country with very little crime. The negative posts you are reading are opinions nothing else, no facts as you can see. You have nothing the be worried about during your visit. You will not be in danger on the streets and the people are friendly and helpful. Thailand has a very special and helpful division of the Royal Thai Police especially for visitors. It is called "The Tourist Police" The officers are trained to help visitors, most can speak good English. The Thais have also asked some "expats" ( people from foriegn countries who enjoy living here ) to assist them in helping you during your visit. We are not police officers, we are travel helpers. There are so many visitors from Europe and other places, the Thais need help from us with language in helping the tourists if there is a problem. We are volunteers who live here and give service and help when needed. I work with Dutch, French, German, Japanees, Chinese, Korean and many other people who are willing to give the Tourist Police help with a problem. We have a hot line telephone number "1155" if you need assistance with a problem. We will be there quickly to help you.

Please relax and enjoy all that Thailand offers and enjoy your stay. Sawadee Kup.

I'm glad to read of PapaJohn's reply... But really, it's missing the point of the original post and the subsequent comment.

The subject of the thread was NOT about whether or not Thailand has much crime, i.e., is it reasonably safe for a person to live here without being victimized.... That I think, in large part depends on how and where one lives...and with what kind of lifestyle. But in general, most of Thailand seems at least as safe or safer than most countries like the U.S. and related....if one exercises a bit of sensible caution.

However, the gist of the thread was more about the state of the legal system, and the Thai police force here... Whereas people from western countries are accustomed to a more established form of due process....which in general provides a fair number of safeguards and reasonable treatment even to those accused of crimes, the same cannot be said, as yet, about Thailand.

If you are a foreigner and find yourself in trouble with the law in some kind of serious way (drugs or other real crime), you could be in for a very bad experience, based on many many accounts. Fortunately, I haven't had that misfortune and don't live my life that way...

But I was a passenger recently in a taxi involved in a traffic accident, and found myself in a central BKK police station where NONE of the officers spoke English, and they seemed little inclined to do anything to help bring an English speaking officer into the proceedings so I could directly understand what was being said by all the involved parties. Fortunately, I had a Thai companion who could sort of translate for me... But, it was a very unsettling experience... And I wasn't even accused of any crime.

There have been very MIXED reports of expats' experiences with the Tourist Police. I've never had to deal with them personally, so I have no direct knowledge. But I've read many comments on TV about them being more of a problem that the regular Thai police, and that people calling their main phone line often will find that no one answering the phone there can even speak English... Again, just what I've read here...

[PhilHarries]

Sign it and forget about Thailand. Leave the country and move to another place with nice women and beaches.

could be difficult if the Police have kept your passport........

And dont for one minute think your Embassy is going to send in the SAS/Delta force on your behalf either. You mean nothing to them.

And why should your embassy do anything to help you? You are charged with breaking the law of the country and virtually no embassy in the world would help one of their nationals evade the law (Unless, that is, you are one of the lucky ones with diplomatic immunity ). What do you think the reaction would be in say the UK if it transpired that the Thai embassy had secretly whisked a Thai national charged with rape out of the country? I'm not saying it has never happened, probably has, but they sure as hel_l wouldn't pull the necessary strings for a drugs offender.

But returning to the topic of the thread (this thread has a topic? Que horreur! )

I think a lot of the "tough it out brigade" would act a whole lot different if they found themselves in the situation in question. I recently spent an hour doing inspections in a boiler flue gas duct. 6mm thick steel plate some 90 metres long, 3 metres square at the small end going to 5 metres square at the other in full sunshine with ambient air temperature around 37 C. About the only air movement was what the natural convection draft up the stack managed to pull through the boilers. There were five people in that duct and by the end of the hour getting out asap was the only thing on my mind, I don't know about the others.

We all like to think we'd do the right thing in any situation but until you've been through it you are only guessing.

[papajohn]

Hi, can someone post something reassuring me that simply being in Thailand and enjoying what the country has to offer won't land me in jail for 3 years? This thread has freaked me out. I have not broken any laws nor do I intend to, but it seems like that does not really matter. Almost makes me want to leave.

Hi Indiefan, and welcome to Chiang Mai and Thailand. I hope your visit is all you expected. It is a wonderful country with very little crime. The negative posts you are reading are opinions nothing else, no facts as you can see. You have nothing the be worried about during your visit. You will not be in danger on the streets and the people are friendly and helpful. Thailand has a very special and helpful division of the Royal Thai Police especially for visitors. It is called "The Tourist Police" The officers are trained to help visitors, most can speak good English. The Thais have also asked some "expats" ( people from foriegn countries who enjoy living here ) to assist them in helping you during your visit. We are not police officers, we are travel helpers. There are so many visitors from Europe and other places, the Thais need help from us with language in helping the tourists if there is a problem. We are volunteers who live here and give service and help when needed. I work with Dutch, French, German, Japanees, Chinese, Korean and many other people who are willing to give the Tourist Police help with a problem. We have a hot line telephone number "1155" if you need assistance with a problem. We will be there quickly to help you.

Please relax and enjoy all that Thailand offers and enjoy your stay. Sawadee Kup.

I'm glad to read of PapaJohn's reply... But really, it's missing the point of the original post and the subsequent comment.

The subject of the thread was NOT about whether or not Thailand has much crime, i.e., is it reasonably safe for a person to live here without being victimized.... That I think, in large part depends on how and where one lives...and with what kind of lifestyle. But in general, most of Thailand seems at least as safe or safer than most countries like the U.S. and related....if one exercises a bit of sensible caution.

However, the gist of the thread was more about the state of the legal system, and the Thai police force here... Whereas people from western countries are accustomed to a more established form of due process....which in general provides a fair number of safeguards and reasonable treatment even to those accused of crimes, the same cannot be said, as yet, about Thailand.

If you are a foreigner and find yourself in trouble with the law in some kind of serious way (drugs or other real crime), you could be in for a very bad experience, based on many many accounts. Fortunately, I haven't had that misfortune and don't live my life that way...

But I was a passenger recently in a taxi involved in a traffic accident, and found myself in a central BKK police station where NONE of the officers spoke English, and they seemed little inclined to do anything to help bring an English speaking officer into the proceedings so I could directly understand what was being said by all the involved parties. Fortunately, I had a Thai companion who could sort of translate for me... But, it was a very unsettling experience... And I wasn't even accused of any crime.

There have been very MIXED reports of expats' experiences with the Tourist Police. I've never had to deal with them personally, so I have no direct knowledge. But I've read many comments on TV about them being more of a problem that the regular Thai police, and that people calling their main phone line often will find that no one answering the phone there can even speak English... Again, just what I've read here...

Hi , thank you for comment. The question was asked by indiefan and my response was with facts. As to the original post I am not a Thai lawyer so I have no "opinion" as to what to do in that situation. It makes for interesting reading only when there is some free time.

I am not one to deal in hyperbole. " Again, just what I've read here " Do you really believe what you read here? Opinions are like--we all know this one

Choke Dee

[indiefan]

Hi , thank you for comment. The question was asked by indiefan and my response was with facts. As to the original post I am not a Thai lawyer so I have no "opinion" as to what to do in that situation. It makes for interesting reading only when there is some free time.

I am not one to deal in hyperbole. " Again, just what I've read here " Do you really believe what you read here? Opinions are like--we all know this one

Choke Dee

Thanks for the comments, but honestly, I don't trust the police and think your description is a little rose coloured. There is no due process here and abusive police are not really going to see much heat for it. There is not even a method to complain against police. If I didn't commit a crime in my country and got arrested for something, I know I'm innocent until proven guilty and the onus is on the state to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that I'm guilty. If I got a hotel room and there was a police raid, and they found 50 KG of heroin in the ceiling (hypothetically), I would walk because its essentially a public place and they would have to prove it was my heroin. Theres a reasonable doubt someone else left it there, so they'd have no case unless they could prove I put it there. It would not even go to trial. If I found the heroin, I'd call the police to alert them to it with 0 fear I could get tagged with it. If I was picked up having beer with the largest drug dealer in the country, and he was caught dealing at the time and had plenty of product on him, I would not really be worried about much because I have freedom of association with anyone I want without fear of being charged for their crimes via proxy.

If you get arrested and the officer does not inform you of your 'right' to remain silent, anything you say is thrown out. Now, cops will try to convince you and trick you... thats for sure, but they can't hold you for more then a day, and if they put you in brutal conditions, they'll lose their jobs. Also, if I did get arrested, I would see a lawyer within an hour or two, before which, the only words I would utter would be 'laywer' and 'phone call'. There is not a whole lot the police can do about it. Theres a civility to the process that is taken very seriously. Violations of that process are dealt with harshly and entire cases thrown out of court if violations occur.

Anyway, I kind of rambled a bit, but just trying to get a solid understanding of the system I am in. Traveling involves risks 'n I'm fine with some risk. I guess??? money is your protection from police in Thailand... from what I've heard from many first hand accounts. Which is why I'm asking how to go about this. I know how to stay safe in my country, and many of the same things (which you just mentioned) apply, but police that can unjustly harm you is something I've never dealt with. I'm guessing that if I get arrested, I'm not going to have much of an opportunity to call the number you gave me. But thanks for that info anyway. I'll put it in my phone now.

[Ulysses G.]

From what I have gathered here, it seems the most important thing is to get bailed out as quickly as possible, by any means neccesary. From what I can tell, there almost seems to be a different court system for those who pay bail - i.e. people with access to enough money to defend themselves. If you don't get bailed out it sounds almost like playing Russian Roulette, whether you are guilty or not guilty.

I'm still not sure if one has the right to phone a freind or family member, but it seems one does have the right to contact one's embassy. If worse came to worse, one should contact them as quickly as possible and give them contact numbers to anyone who might bail you out or help you in any way at all. If you are a tourist, maybe you should explain what it is like here to the person you trust most, so they will be ready to help you right away if they ever get a call from your embassy. The embassy won't help much from all I have heard.

If anyone has better advice, please share it with the rest of us. I want to know the best way to handle a similar situation too. That old man scared the hel_l out of me and I have no interest in drugs or anything else illegal. That was the real reason I put up this thread.

[indiefan]

From what I have gathered here, it seems the most important thing is to get bailed out as quickly as possible, by any means neccesary. From what I can tell, there almost seems to be a different court system for those who pay bail - i.e. people with access to enough money to defend themselves. If you don't get bailed out it sounds almost like playing Russian Roulette, whether you are guilty or not guilty.

I'm still not sure if one has the right to phone a freind or family member, but it seems one does have the right to contact one's embassy. If worse came to worse, one should contact them as quickly as possible and give them contact numbers to anyone who might bail you out or help you in any way at all. If you are a tourist, maybe you should explain what it is like here to the person you trust most, so they will be ready to help you right away if they ever get a call from your embassy. The embassy won't help much from all I have heard.

If anyone has better advice, please share it with the rest of us. I want to know the best way to handle a similar situation too. That old man scared the hel_l out of me and I have no interest in drugs or anything else illegal. That was the real reason I put up this thread.

Hey, maybe you'd be interested in this then...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/04/25/twitter.buck/

Any interest in forming an uh, emergency network? I can rig my cell phone to send off a message quite quickly and update that emergency message for what ever place I am in. Its not always going to work, but if there gets to be a few people on it, it can only help to ask a number of people in the area for help at once. I know I'd try my best to help anyone who was in trouble and txt'ed me. I'm traveling alone, it would serve peace of mind if I knew there were people I could lean on if I got in a spot. Thoughts?

[southerndog]

Maybe but if you don't break the law, then you should not have to fear the law, and BTW I've never ever done drugs and never will.

cheers

onzestan

I don't visit this forum much, and this is why.

This thread is a VERY IMPORTANT thread for all of us. People stating things like "just don't break the law" and "don't use drugs idot" are TOTALLY missing the point.

Everything here is speculation, but I'd think if you sign a piece of paper, as a foreigner, it seems reasonable to say "I had no idea what I was signing" in the same way an illiterate could use the same defense.

Here's a hypothetical : I write up a 10 page contract for a job. On page 9 I write that you are to come and clean my house and take care of my yard every day for the rest of your life, and I will pay you 10 cents a year. Something tells me, this contract isn't legal..

I suppose the proper thing to do is not sign the paperwork, but in the heat of the battle we're not really sure what we'll do. That's why its important to have these discussions.

[StateSix]

Hi , thank you for comment. The question was asked by indiefan and my response was with facts. As to the original post I am not a Thai lawyer so I have no "opinion" as to what to do in that situation. It makes for interesting reading only when there is some free time.

I am not one to deal in hyperbole. " Again, just what I've read here " Do you really believe what you read here? Opinions are like--we all know this one

Choke Dee

If you get arrested and the officer does not inform you of your 'right' to remain silent, anything you say is thrown out. Now, cops will try to convince you and trick you... thats for sure, but they can't hold you for more then a day, and if they put you in brutal conditions, they'll lose their jobs. Also, if I did get arrested, I would see a lawyer within an hour or two, before which, the only words I would utter would be 'laywer' and 'phone call'. There is not a whole lot the police can do about it. Theres a civility to the process that is taken very seriously. Violations of that process are dealt with harshly and entire cases thrown out of court if violations occur.

There is no 'right' to silence in the UK as such. You don't have to answer any questions but the courts can draw inferences from your refusal during interview, especially if you mysteriously come up with a watertight alibi at court, and there's no reasonable reason why you didn't mention it during the interview. No entitlement to a phone call either, the only entitlement is to have someone informed of your arrest. And good luck trying to get a duty solicitor to see you within a an hour or two, especially if it is late at night. Sure you cannot be interviewed without one present if you request one, but it can mean you sitting in a a cell for hours waiting for the lawyer to arrive.

That is in the UK with all the legislation in place to protect suspects rights. Don't imagine Sgt Somchais hands are tied quite as tight.

[indiefan]

Hi , thank you for comment. The question was asked by indiefan and my response was with facts. As to the original post I am not a Thai lawyer so I have no "opinion" as to what to do in that situation. It makes for interesting reading only when there is some free time.

I am not one to deal in hyperbole. " Again, just what I've read here " Do you really believe what you read here? Opinions are like--we all know this one

Choke Dee

If you get arrested and the officer does not inform you of your 'right' to remain silent, anything you say is thrown out. Now, cops will try to convince you and trick you... thats for sure, but they can't hold you for more then a day, and if they put you in brutal conditions, they'll lose their jobs. Also, if I did get arrested, I would see a lawyer within an hour or two, before which, the only words I would utter would be 'laywer' and 'phone call'. There is not a whole lot the police can do about it. Theres a civility to the process that is taken very seriously. Violations of that process are dealt with harshly and entire cases thrown out of court if violations occur.

There is no 'right' to silence in the UK as such. You don't have to answer any questions but the courts can draw inferences from your refusal during interview, especially if you mysteriously come up with a watertight alibi at court, and there's no reasonable reason why you didn't mention it during the interview. No entitlement to a phone call either, the only entitlement is to have someone informed of your arrest. And good luck trying to get a duty solicitor to see you within a an hour or two, especially if it is late at night. Sure you cannot be interviewed without one present if you request one, but it can mean you sitting in a a cell for hours waiting for the lawyer to arrive.

That is in the UK with all the legislation in place to protect suspects rights. Don't imagine Sgt Somchais hands are tied quite as tight.

Yea, I'm from Canada and you are pretty protected. The right to remain silent is essential IMHO to a proper judicial system. Why didn't you mention your alibi? Because cops are crooked and you don't trust them, therefore remain silent so you don't get screwed. WRT the lawyer... if I was in jail, I'd be contacting 'my' lawyer who would be there ASAP, no doubt. As for a public defender or what have you, you might have to wait for that, but again, the holding cell will be nothing like what was described in this post.

And I agree, I think this thread is very important and informative. I still don't know wether to sign the papers or not. And I still don't know how to properly pay off an officer if I really have to. :/

[indiefan]

So what did you think of starting a twitter group? Most people here have cell phones, it could only help... or do you think its a little lame? I don't.

[Ulysses G.]

There is nothing wrong with the twitter group idea, but it would take some real work and organizing to make sure it worked and that it was con-artist proof.

[papajohn]

There is nothing wrong with the twitter group idea, but it would take some real work and organizing to make sure it worked and that it was con-artist proof.

Many interesting points of view here. The most important thing to keep in mind when you travel to a forgien country is that the laws of your home country " Do Not Apply". Each country has their own laws,

and visitors shoud be aware of that. I recall reading a post not long ago about someone having a Thai lawyer who is also a Thai policeman. I think a 5 minute phone call would give us an answer from both

the legal and police point of view regarding whether to sign anything presented if we are arrested.

I am trying to remember that posting but I am a "very" old man and and it escapes me at the moment.

Sawadee Kup

[StateSix]

Hi , thank you for comment. The question was asked by indiefan and my response was with facts. As to the original post I am not a Thai lawyer so I have no "opinion" as to what to do in that situation. It makes for interesting reading only when there is some free time.

I am not one to deal in hyperbole. " Again, just what I've read here " Do you really believe what you read here? Opinions are like--we all know this one

Choke Dee

If you get arrested and the officer does not inform you of your 'right' to remain silent, anything you say is thrown out. Now, cops will try to convince you and trick you... thats for sure, but they can't hold you for more then a day, and if they put you in brutal conditions, they'll lose their jobs. Also, if I did get arrested, I would see a lawyer within an hour or two, before which, the only words I would utter would be 'laywer' and 'phone call'. There is not a whole lot the police can do about it. Theres a civility to the process that is taken very seriously. Violations of that process are dealt with harshly and entire cases thrown out of court if violations occur.

There is no 'right' to silence in the UK as such. You don't have to answer any questions but the courts can draw inferences from your refusal during interview, especially if you mysteriously come up with a watertight alibi at court, and there's no reasonable reason why you didn't mention it during the interview. No entitlement to a phone call either, the only entitlement is to have someone informed of your arrest. And good luck trying to get a duty solicitor to see you within a an hour or two, especially if it is late at night. Sure you cannot be interviewed without one present if you request one, but it can mean you sitting in a a cell for hours waiting for the lawyer to arrive.

That is in the UK with all the legislation in place to protect suspects rights. Don't imagine Sgt Somchais hands are tied quite as tight.

Yea, I'm from Canada and you are pretty protected. The right to remain silent is essential IMHO to a proper judicial system. Why didn't you mention your alibi? Because cops are crooked and you don't trust them, therefore remain silent so you don't get screwed. WRT the lawyer... if I was in jail, I'd be contacting 'my' lawyer who would be there ASAP, no doubt. As for a public defender or what have you, you might have to wait for that, but again, the holding cell will be nothing like what was described in this post.

And I agree, I think this thread is very important and informative. I still don't know wether to sign the papers or not. And I still don't know how to properly pay off an officer if I really have to. :/

Why didn't you mention your alibi? Because I wanted to see exactly what evidence you have before I got together with some friends and concocted some cock and bull story to counteract your accusation. To claim that cops are crooked is rubbish, some are but the vast majority aren't, especially in the UK. A much higher percentage of arrested people are crooked however, and have no qualms in telling a few porkies. The right to silence has allowed many guilty people to manipulate the system and get off scot free, whereas the many systems and procedures in place nowadays make it extremely hard to frame an innocent person.

WRT your "own" lawyer see how quickly he/she turns up at 4am in the morning. Agree that a police cell in the west is unlikely to be as described here.

Personally I wouldn't say anything without a lawyer present unless I was sure of the law, which I am not here, and I was sure that I couldn't be fitted up, which I am not here. I would also be careful in how you approach paying off an officer here.

[BangkokHank]

In the calm safety and comfort of my apartment, I can say that I wouldn't sign any document that I couldn't read. Under duress - who knows? That being said, it would be easier to maintain my stand if I were completely innocent of any crime, which didn't seem to be the case in this situation. However, being guilty of a crime does not justify the expectation by the police of the signing of what essentially amounts to a blank confession.

Nevertheless, had I signed the document and actually been let out, I would have then proceeded to flee the country - with or without my passport. And while it's not easy to leave the country without a passport, it's easier to do so than it is to get out of jail after having been convicted of a crime - I think. At least I know how I would do it. Of course I would then be stuck in a neighboring country without a passport, but I think that would be better than being stuck in a Thai jail for an extended period of time.

Regarding the use of drugs: While I do not use them myself, I consider that everyone has the right to make that decision for himself. The use of drugs, however, shouldn't be illegal. Commiting a real crime either under the influence of drugs - or in pursuit of drugs - should be punished.

[XTREME]

Perhaps I am weaker than most of the other posters here so I hope I will remain on the good side of the law.

That's all there is to it isn't it?

onzestan

That's extremely naive, I'd say.

Maybe but if you don't break the law, then you should not have to fear the law, and BTW I've never ever done drugs and never will.

cheers

onzestan

Then I suggest you do yourself a favour and give them a go.

Why do people who have absolutely NO knowledge of drugs have such firm views on them? It really is startling bizarre how easily brainwashed people can become on the issue of smoking a harmless plant that grows freely throughout the world; and one that has numerous natural benefits too.

Yeah and then they go home and drink a bottle of whiskey just because a group of people have decided that one substance is legal and one isnt. Havent heard of too many people dropping dead from smoking too much weed.

[indiefan]

There is nothing wrong with the twitter group idea, but it would take some real work and organizing to make sure it worked and that it was con-artist proof.

I don't think it would really take that much work. Twitter is designed to be stupidly easy to use. All you'd have to do is create an account and follow everyone on the group. Also, its only to be used for emergencys. So, hmm...

1. Its not really a public group, but something you set up with people that you trust/know. Not closed, but not some totally public thing either.

2. If someone sends a distress message (or whatever, I don't want to be dramatic! ;0 ) the standard response would be to call their mobile/send a txt to see if its for real and if you can help. You can use twitter again to quickly tell everyone its a false alarm. If no response or there is a problem...

3. Start a thread on a forum (this one seems uber active, so probably the best place?) about the situation and call on people in the forum to help the person out.

Even something as simple as someone who speaks thai calling to assist, or contacting a lawyer could make the difference between screwed and saved. I don't want to be that old man. If cops at home can plant drugs, frame people and screw you, I can only imagine what can happen here.

Also, I'm not thinking 'huge network of 100's'. A small number of people could acomplish a lot. Beyond that, maybe using facebook to oraganize people's contact info/passport numbers/emergency contacts would be usefull. Travelling alone and not knowing people here, it would make me feel way more secure. Thoughts?

[indiefan]

Why didn't you mention your alibi? Because I wanted to see exactly what evidence you have before I got together with some friends and concocted some cock and bull story to counteract your accusation. To claim that cops are crooked is rubbish, some are but the vast majority aren't, especially in the UK. A much higher percentage of arrested people are crooked however, and have no qualms in telling a few porkies. The right to silence has allowed many guilty people to manipulate the system and get off scot free, whereas the many systems and procedures in place nowadays make it extremely hard to frame an innocent person.

WRT your "own" lawyer see how quickly he/she turns up at 4am in the morning. Agree that a police cell in the west is unlikely to be as described here.

Personally I wouldn't say anything without a lawyer present unless I was sure of the law, which I am not here, and I was sure that I couldn't be fitted up, which I am not here. I would also be careful in how you approach paying off an officer here.

Because telling a police officer 'anything' can and will be used in the case against you in a court of law. To claim that cops are crooked is rubbish? Not at all. Its the police and the prosecuting attorny's job to make the best case against you to convict you, that is their goal. Its not a search for truth or something. Its you and your lawyer's job to do the opposite. If you get arrested, saying 'anything' helps further the goal of them convicting you, and your goal of an improved defense. Sure, guilty people get off with the right to silence, but it also helps innocent people defend themselves and avoid making pressue mistakes in extreme situations. Your trial does and should not start the momment you are arrested. Theres nothing just about that because its totally imbalanced... with no expereince vs police who are vets are snaring you.

Ha, my lawyer would show up at 4 AM... thats why he's my lawyer.

[indiefan]

There is nothing wrong with the twitter group idea, but it would take some real work and organizing to make sure it worked and that it was con-artist proof.

Many interesting points of view here. The most important thing to keep in mind when you travel to a forgien country is that the laws of your home country " Do Not Apply". Each country has their own laws,

and visitors shoud be aware of that. I recall reading a post not long ago about someone having a Thai lawyer who is also a Thai policeman. I think a 5 minute phone call would give us an answer from both

the legal and police point of view regarding whether to sign anything presented if we are arrested.

I am trying to remember that posting but I am a "very" old man and and it escapes me at the moment.

Sawadee Kup

I hear you, if someone is connected to a police officer/lawyer, could you please ask for advice? I think it would be pretty helpfull for all of us who are just learning about the country. Cheers!

[Ulysses G.]

If we were not in Thailand, it might take 5 minutes to find out what to do, but those of us who have been here a while know that Thais are not real good on "what if" questions. It takes a special Thai person to be able to understand the possible situation that we are talking about and give good advice for a possible scenerio with no real details.

I mentioned that I work with a lawyer who is also on the police force and he is great for real situations, but I would guess that if I call him up and ask what to do if arrested without giving him any more details, he will just say to call him or just say the first thing that comes to mind without really thinking about it. That is why I have not contacted him to ask him about this, even though I would call him immediately (if I could) in a real situation.

[papajohn]

If we were not in Thailand, it might take 5 minutes to find out what to do, but those of us who have been here a while know that Thais are not real good on "what if" questions. It takes a special Thai person to be able to understand the possible situation that we are talking about and give good advice for a possible scenerio with no real details.

I mentioned that I work with a lawyer who is also on the police force and he is great for real situations, but I would guess that if I call him up and ask what to do if arrested without giving him any more details, he will just say to call him or just say the first thing that comes to mind without really thinking about it. That is why I have not contacted him to ask him about this, even though I would call him immediately (if I could) in a real situation.

The original post regarding " the very old man THROWN into prison"

was presented as a true story in my "opinion", or is it fiction?

The question remains, If one is asked to sign a paper in a Thai jail that one cannot understand the language, what should one do? Simple question calls for Simple answer from a lawyer/ policeman who can give the answer from both sides .

This is a direct question to the lawyer /policeman not " a possible situation" please answer the question. Since both of these "special" Thais are available.

" The Thais are not good at " What if " questions." Wow what a statment to make about an entire country. If I were Thai I would be deeply offended.

Sawadee Kup

[Ulysses G.]

" The Thais are not good at " What if " questions." Wow what a statment to make about an entire country. If I were Thai I would be deeply offended.

Americans are often accused of thinking that every place should be like the U.S. and not adapting to different cultures. If you can live here and not recognize certain character traits that are very common to our hosts, I don't see how you can ever understand Thai society in even the most basic ways or hope to fit in.

[papajohn]

" The Thais are not good at " What if " questions." Wow what a statment to make about an entire country. If I were Thai I would be deeply offended.

Americans are often accused of thinking that every place should be like the U.S. and not adapting to different cultures. If you can live here and not recognize certain character traits that are very common to our hosts, I don't see how you can ever understand Thai society in even the most basic ways or hope to fit in.

"o " so now all Americans are put into a catagory too. Small minds are often exposed by the sentiments and opinions of other peoples that they express. I really feel sorry for those people. They will

never " fit in" anywhere because of their limited ability to accept the fact that their " know it all attitude" is nothing but arrested development.

Please answer the question, instead of attacking the

the people of another country.