Younger Thai Girls

[corkman]

Haven't read all the replies - just the first few - plus I'm a bloke, am I allowed post?

girlx - I have found that alot, nearly the majority of western women have a bitchy chip on their shoulder and a bad condescending attitude to thai girls in general. I am not even beggining to suggest that you are like that - just in case you think I am. But in some instances I cannot blame Thai girls having a bad attitude toward western girls, as the way I see it they are merely reciprocating.

A little anecdote to illustrate the type of thing I mean - I cannot begin to count the amount of times western women (while in thailand) have approched me, asking why I am with a thai woman - after all don't you know half of them half aids and that type of thing. To which I usually reply in a sarcastic tone, "yes, me and my THAI wife have been living with aids now for the last 6yrs, I found last week, if only you warned me sooner"...... the attitude is something which I come across as a whole - a general distaste and condescending attitude toward thai girls - which is incredibly sad.

Please let me note that I do not mean for this to apply to all western ladies or all tourist areas or anything of the sort - it is just, in my experience, many they have a rather negative attitude - you might be experiencing a back lash of that?

Incidentally - my Thai wife has complained of this type of dispondant attitude too - when I am there, and when I am not there.

Another point is that I find there is an innate hostility that we westerners have toward anyone trying to sell us something. I have found that the true Thai's have a very gentle and subtle approach - when you enter a shop you are greeted - not so much to hound you into a sale but in an effort to offer service, and help you find what you want....... other 'thai' persons, those coming from less tradtional backgrounds shall be say (maybe second generation immigrants etc.) have a more aggressive sales attitude - an attitude that we westerns are familiar with from holiday resorts in Europe. The tourist who has frequented Europe or similar places will instinctively retreat and will not "engage" with a Thai sales person, for fear of being pestered and harassed. So..... when they walk into a small shop, get the smile and the "sawadee kha - how can I help you", the automatically revert to the "avoid and ignore" accompanied by a frim and curt "just looking" or "no thankyou"..... To be fair to both parties - the unknowing westerner doesn't see any wrong, and the poor thai girl thinks this is highly rude - in their repsetive contexts, both are right and both are wrong...... but the knock on effect is that, I would imagine, Thai shop assistants are becoming weary of what they perceive as rude and agressive foreigners - and hence as reciprocating in a similar disinterested, non-engaging attitude. This is of coure my highly subjective and probably unfounded thoughts......

So in short, for the most part, I think that the dispondant attitude that westerners, and later even thai's are getting, is a response to what they see as rude behaviour. We all know the differences between our cultures - and the misunderstandings that can come about when trying to directly transpose our values or practices directly onto their - and visa versa.

Just a thought - interesting topic.

[zorro1]

Says it all right there, girlx. I now understand why you consistently receive poor service.

hey, if the girls at the fish market can manage a smile when they stand all day covered in fish guts, then these snobby little brats who hang out in air conditioning eating their somtam and gossiping over soaps can manage to be polite. it has nothing to do with my attitude as i am very friendly, always smile, and always speak thai.

A spoilt snobby slut brat will be even less impressed by what she perceives as a white Thai wanna bee. Speak English forcefully!

[kat]

Haven't read all the replies - just the first few - plus I'm a bloke, am I allowed post?

girlx - I have found that alot, nearly the majority of western women have a bitchy chip on their shoulder and a bad condescending attitude to thai girls in general.

I'd like to know where you have seen this on a consistent basis in the context of shopping. It sounds to me like this is based on nothing more than your own projections onto Western women, because in 4 years of living in Thailand I have never seen a Western woman be more rude to shop keepers than Thais themselves. There are definitely exceptions and the group tourist mentality, but that would not be isolated to Western women only.

[sbk]

Haven't read all the replies - just the first few - plus I'm a bloke, am I allowed post?

girlx - I have found that alot, nearly the majority of western women have a bitchy chip on their shoulder and a bad condescending attitude to thai girls in general. I am not even beggining to suggest that you are like that - just in case you think I am. But in some instances I cannot blame Thai girls having a bad attitude toward western girls, as the way I see it they are merely reciprocating.

A little anecdote to illustrate the type of thing I mean - I cannot begin to count the amount of times western women (while in thailand) have approched me, asking why I am with a thai woman - after all don't you know half of them half aids and that type of thing. To which I usually reply in a sarcastic tone, "yes, me and my THAI wife have been living with aids now for the last 6yrs, I found last week, if only you warned me sooner"...... the attitude is something which I come across as a whole - a general distaste and condescending attitude toward thai girls - which is incredibly sad.

Please let me note that I do not mean for this to apply to all western ladies or all tourist areas or anything of the sort - it is just, in my experience, many they have a rather negative attitude - you might be experiencing a back lash of that?

Incidentally - my Thai wife has complained of this type of dispondant attitude too - when I am there, and when I am not there.

Another point is that I find there is an innate hostility that we westerners have toward anyone trying to sell us something. I have found that the true Thai's have a very gentle and subtle approach - when you enter a shop you are greeted - not so much to hound you into a sale but in an effort to offer service, and help you find what you want....... other 'thai' persons, those coming from less tradtional backgrounds shall be say (maybe second generation immigrants etc.) have a more aggressive sales attitude - an attitude that we westerns are familiar with from holiday resorts in Europe. The tourist who has frequented Europe or similar places will instinctively retreat and will not "engage" with a Thai sales person, for fear of being pestered and harassed. So..... when they walk into a small shop, get the smile and the "sawadee kha - how can I help you", the automatically revert to the "avoid and ignore" accompanied by a frim and curt "just looking" or "no thankyou"..... To be fair to both parties - the unknowing westerner doesn't see any wrong, and the poor thai girl thinks this is highly rude - in their repsetive contexts, both are right and both are wrong...... but the knock on effect is that, I would imagine, Thai shop assistants are becoming weary of what they perceive as rude and agressive foreigners - and hence as reciprocating in a similar disinterested, non-engaging attitude. This is of coure my highly subjective and probably unfounded thoughts......

So in short, for the most part, I think that the dispondant attitude that westerners, and later even thai's are getting, is a response to what they see as rude behaviour. We all know the differences between our cultures - and the misunderstandings that can come about when trying to directly transpose our values or practices directly onto their - and visa versa.

Just a thought - interesting topic.

Now, you know, I really hate posts like this. Because if I refute you in any way then it just proves I am a bitchy woman with a chip on my shoulder and if I let it stand then it seems like I agree with your misguided and poor attitude.

So, lets just say this one thing here and then drop the idea that it is always the western woman to blame for poor service: I have lived in this country for over 19 years and I have NEVER encountered a western woman who has said something like that to another person. I am not saying it doesn't occur, but in all my years I have never encountered it nor heard of it. Most people have better manners than that. So, I don't know where you live or how you appear, but perhaps you should take that into consideration when making your judgments.

And before you accuse me of being bitchy, suggest you take your post, turn it around to aim it at western men and see how you would feel if someone posted something like that.

Now, that ridiculous assumption thrust aside and IGNORED FROM NOW ON, let me just say, that yes, I have encountered poor service in Thailand (who hasn't?) and usually it is from women but that is because most service jobs are done by women. But, I can't say that I have encountered the kind of widespread antipathy that girlx seems to encounter.

[girlx]

Actually I see where corkman is coming from. I am sure there is a percentage of western women who are hostile to Thai women because they think they are all hookers. I just met an American girl last week who had a similar chip on her shoulder, and it was irritating to say the least to be sitting next to her at a cafe while she talked at the top of her lungs about how cheaply Thai women sell themselves etc.

But not all western women in Thailand are like that. In fact I think a very small percentage of them are. I think it is a trait mostly relegated to the ignorant tourist population. Therefore I doubt rude salesgirls are representing a backlash, and I certainly do not give them reason to think that I have that opinion of them... like I said, I often don't have to do anything to get that attitude except walk into a shop.

when they walk into a small shop, get the smile and the "sawadee kha - how can I help you", the automatically revert to the "avoid and ignore" accompanied by a frim and curt "just looking" or "no thankyou"

This is the other side of Thai service, and I definitely "avoid and ignore" because I can't stand someone following me around while I am trying to look at things in a shop. In America they sometimes make employees do this to catch shoplifters, and I always refused to shop in those stores- invest in a security system for chrissakes! I will not buy a thing from a place in which they follow me around. But I agree that is a cultural difference.

But, I can't say that I have encountered the kind of widespread antipathy that girlx seems to encounter.

Maybe because you live in Koh Phangan? I only encountered this one time there, in a clothes shop in Thongsala that I never set foot in again. But I am noticing it quite often in BKK suddenly. After talking to some farang guys the other day about this who have also gotten the same treatment, I have to wonder if it is sort of the nationalistic trend against foreigners now? Though it does seem to be restricted to shopgirls rather than shopboys. Who knows.

[sbk]

I do go to Bangkok, girlx.

As for the western women chip thing, most definitely only in tourists and even then, have you actually seen one walk up to a thai girl with a western guy and confront directly? Or heard someone who claims they did?

As for the idea its a trend against foreigners? I doubt it, its probably more underpaid, bored girls who spend too much time watching tv and start thinking that somehow that is reality.

[kat]

Actually I see where corkman is coming from. I am sure there is a percentage of western women who are hostile to Thai women because they think they are all hookers. I just met an American girl last week who had a similar chip on her shoulder,

Actually, in Thailand, I observed quite a few chips. There are the chips of Western men toward Western women, and the chips of "tourist-y" Western women toward foreign/Thai relationships, as well as the Thai chips of the same. However, I have observed these on the street or in other scenarios, and want to be clear about not conflating this with sales help in Thailand.

[edwardandtubs]

I'm a western man living in Thailand and I think corkman is talking nonsense and girlx and others are spot on. I usually find these bitchy attitudes of Thai girls are in chain stores like Blisstel where you get "no hab" answers when they can be bothered to pull themselves away from chatting on their mobiles or watching soap operas. The problem seems to be that they they're left alone in the shop with no manager or even supervisor and as they have no stake in the business, why should they bother making an effort? So it's a managerial issue - the girls need training and supervision. The problem is that in Thailand they seem to prefer huge numbers of small shops staffed by one or two stroppy little madams rather than smaller numbers of larger shops which are properly managed. The only solution I've found is to avoid these little chain stores altogether and shop in larger places which are well managed or smaller places where the person serving you is clearly the person who owns or at least has a stake in the business.

[Nampeung]

Is it not sad that we don't analyze these relationships with our own, very different, Western cultures while living in Thailand. I mean we expect Western values but the girls/guys we are talking about here are not on the same level of understanding as us...we have to let them off the proverbial hook and understand that they are not on the same page as us girls/guys who are complaining here... I am taking myself a little bit out of this discussion as I have 'moved on' but I was there a few years ago and know what the other posters mean... but hey guys/girls Thai chicks/guys are never going to see their own reality as your reality... it will always be a case of 'your understanding' V 'Her/His understanding'

Edited May 28, 2008 by Nampeung

[Shotime]

It's getting difficult to follow this. Can responders please reveal if they are male, female, gay, lesbian, or whatever? I'm not sure about girlx, and it would help to know which direction they're coming from. Otherwise, from what I've been able to glean from this, attitudes develop over time. Everyone contributes. I'm a relatively (for Thailand anyway) straight male, and I like younger Thai girls with an attitude. Of course, I'm not trying to find out if they have a size 4 in a particular dress that probably costs more than I make in a month.

[Smithson]

As for the western women chip thing, most definitely only in tourists and even then, have you actually seen one walk up to a thai girl with a western guy and confront directly? Or heard someone who claims they did?

After 15 yrs living here I've never been confronted by a western woman when with a Thai woman or had any experiences similar to what corkman is saying.

[DaoDao]

What kind of tongue lashing did you have in mind??? smile.gif

knew that was coming...

i suppose it all makes sense. sure ruins my day though when someone is so rude. i always had pounded into my head that the customer comes first! if only the managers of these places knew how much business they must lose by having such a nasty front.

"tongue lashing" and "the customer comes first!" Oh girlx, I do love your posts!

if the "customer comes first!" does that mean "dogs follow"?

Suegha;dear you had not notice those underlined words too I want to bring your attention to them to "fulfill your pleasure" in girlx's "posts"

[sgtpeppers]

has anyone noticed a huge change in attitudes with younger thai girls of late towards them? i am in bangkok now and it seems like every 3rd shop i go into there is some 20-something girl who can barely be roused from her soap operas to flounce over with a deadpan, cheerless stare- and before your question is even finished she blurts, "no have" and goes back to her show with no attempt at further assistance. there have also been numerous other cases of totally out-of-line rudeness in the past week, not just to me but to other female friends as well.

is it because i am female? is it because i am farang? is it because they are miserable in their jobs?

older thai women love me. thai men generally love me. it's just younger women who have this problem and i don't know where it is coming from. i swear the next one will get a tongue lashing from me though.

They key phrase I use if they dont have what I want is

"mai mee? mai pen rai" "oh you don't have it, no problem"

smile. walk out.

[girlx]

yeah that's what i say too, though sometimes i notice what i am looking for on my way out- argh. and they really don't care if you walk out or not.

[edwardandtubs]

has anyone noticed a huge change in attitudes with younger thai girls of late towards them? i am in bangkok now and it seems like every 3rd shop i go into there is some 20-something girl who can barely be roused from her soap operas to flounce over with a deadpan, cheerless stare- and before your question is even finished she blurts, "no have" and goes back to her show with no attempt at further assistance. there have also been numerous other cases of totally out-of-line rudeness in the past week, not just to me but to other female friends as well.

is it because i am female? is it because i am farang? is it because they are miserable in their jobs?

older thai women love me. thai men generally love me. it's just younger women who have this problem and i don't know where it is coming from. i swear the next one will get a tongue lashing from me though.

They key phrase I use if they dont have what I want is

"mai mee? mai pen rai" "oh you don't have it, no problem"

smile. walk out.

You completely misunderstand the nature of the "no hab" expression. In no way does it mean that the shop doesn't have the thing for which you've asked. It's a way of telling a foreigner to get lost. For example in a Blisstel shop I asked for a sim card and one month unlimited GPRS to which the reply was "no hab" (translation: get lost, I can't be bothered to assist you). I replied "yes hab" and pointed to the sim card and the 999 baht for one month unlimited GPRS offer that was written on a sign right there on the counter.

You shouldn't smile and walk out because you're just affirming her belief that treating customers with total contempt is the easy thing to do.

Edited May 28, 2008 by edwardandtubs

[burman]

and they really don't care if you walk out or not.

They do care.

They prefer it when you are not there. Then they are sure they don't have to work and can relax again.

[corkman]

Now, you know, I really hate posts like this. Because if I refute you in any way then it just proves I am a bitchy woman with a chip on my shoulder and if I let it stand then it seems like I agree with your misguided and poor attitude.

So, lets just say this one thing here and then drop the idea that it is always the western woman to blame for poor service: I have lived in this country for over 19 years and I have NEVER encountered a western woman who has said something like that to another person. I am not saying it doesn't occur, but in all my years I have never encountered it nor heard of it. Most people have better manners than that. So, I don't know where you live or how you appear, but perhaps you should take that into consideration when making your judgments.

And before you accuse me of being bitchy, suggest you take your post, turn it around to aim it at western men and see how you would feel if someone posted something like that.

Now, that ridiculous assumption thrust aside and IGNORED FROM NOW ON, let me just say, that yes, I have encountered poor service in Thailand (who hasn't?) and usually it is from women but that is because most service jobs are done by women. But, I can't say that I have encountered the kind of widespread antipathy that girlx seems to encounter.

SBK - I have obvisouly offended you, and for that I appologise. Refuting it or disagreeing is not "bitchy" either, in my view - you are perfectly entitled to, and I'm glad you did. Please allow me to elaborate.

Re-reading my post, the absence of opions, or balancing arguments if you will, gives it a tone that suggests I am having a stab at all women everywhere. That was not my intention, but I can easily see how I left that impression - again, for that I appologise.

I further want to clarify, and I should have stated - I was referring (more or less) strictly to touristy type people and situations - not expats, in the idea that the Thai girl in the shop would not diffrenciate and label all westerns as a tourist, and hence vent any grievance they might have toward any and all tourists (and by human nature a woman will be bitchy towards another woman, as will a man be to another man..... but cross gender it seems less pronounced).

I accept that a few people have been living in Thailand for a long time, and have never encountered the "your wife is just a hooker" line - but unfortunately I have found it to be a regular occurance. That "half of them have aids" story is 100% true, I was standing outside Sweet Soul Cafe (Bar), in Chaweng on soi green mango, my wife was talking with her friends - my friend (western guy) was chatting up (trying) a western girl - and her buddy interjected that comment with disgust..... I don't know why, and not wishing to flatter myself (men were in short supply that ) but possibly it was because I had previsouly rebutted her advances (politely and subtly) and she felt rejected - disgruntled that "you would take that hooker over me" type attitude? It was about 5yrs ago, but I remember it clearly. I should add, and I neglected to say before, I have been asked the "how much are you paying her" line from as many (probably more) men - normally a simple "we're married, she's my wife" is met with a "sorry about that mate, didn't realise" is enough to relsove it. I can understand why western men and women alike fresh off the boat as it were might think this - it is just ignorance, and no offence is meant. But if anyone assumed or implied that a western woman was a hooker - then 'hel_l hath no fury'....... no offence is intended, it is usually an honest mistake, but that does not mitigate the insult that legit. thai women must feel, does it? Of course receiving this type of comment is subjective to where you are and the company you keep - living in a quiet backwater area where only the more desirable human beings requent will of course help...... spending time in resort areas where loud mouth trollops and larger louts frequent will naturally mean more "oppertunity" to experience what I am saying. I even experience it at home... people have commented "I often thought of getting one".... the "one" meaning a Thai GF or Wife.... like you can just go over, select a model and bring "it" home..... its belittling and derogatory - but people don't realise the implications of what they are saying....... anyway, nuf said.... its way O.T.

I am afraid that the assumption of alot of western tourist is that all thai women are for sale - the only questin is the price. The is "tourist" both male and female......

A key phrase I used at the start of my post, which was poor use of words and is unacceptable, and does not really convery what I was trying to say was in the first line - "nearly the majority of....." majority is neither fair or accurate.

The scond half of my post, I was not referring to "women" but western tourists in general. That is non geneder specific. (From the 3rd paragraph on). And I did conclude that is was my thoughts ony and "highly subjective and probably unfounded".

Referring directly to your post SBK:

"drop the idea that it is always the western woman to blame for poor service"

I concur - I was suggesting that

(1) There might be a bit of reciprocation going on, if they had a grievance with a particular western girl.

(2) I see it more as a non gender specific "western tourist" that is to be blamed - though I admit I expressed that point poorly, if at all.

(3) The world "always" - I would equally and say that maybe it is not always the thai is to blame - there's a bit of tit-for-tat maybe?

"I have NEVER encountered a western woman who has said something like that to another person" - its not the type of thing that a strange girl walks up to another girl and says though, in fairness. Go sit in a busy beach bar on Samui and listen to the "I fink its disgusting all these sluts - there all the one - look at 'em"..... when they don't realise you are with a Thai woman these comments are not all that rare - in fairness, once they realise they usually shut up about it...... but the ocasional one...... It should be noted also that the original case i referenced, the western girl did not know we were married - she just assumed too much.

"Most people have better manners than that" - yes, I disagree, most do - alot don't though, and alot "think" they are just stating fact and assume that indeed every thai woman with a western man is a hooker. ESPECIALLY if there is an age difference.

"So, I don't know where you live or how you appear" - indeed you don't. I live in Ireland. I'm 30. Have a respectable office job. Don't do drugs. Married 6yrs. We have a baby. Am ridiculed (in a joking way) by my friends for being too much of a "family man". Have never paid a woman for sex. Do not keep company with people of "low" moral standards (interpret that as you will). Spend about 3months a year in Thailand since we had our baby - 6 months a year before that. Been going there since 2000. My appearance is nothing remarkable - I could do with loosing a stone, I'm clean shaven, dress respectably, no tatoo's or piercings, and would consider myself average in terms of attractiveness to the opposite sex. My wife is 1yr my junior, and certainly does not appear or behave like a hooker. So..... I have done as you suggested...... and taken a look at myself - am I missing something? Do I in some way "deserve" or "attract" these comments? Prehaps it is only that I am friendly, and will strike up a conversation with anyone, without prejudice, that lets me pre-disposed to less desirable individuals that more astute people would avoid?

"I can't say that I have encountered the kind of widespread antipathy that girlx seems to encounter." - I can't say I (speaking as a male) have encoutnered very much of it either - but I can say I have observed bitchiness on the part of Thai girls toward western women. As per my previous post, sometimes I can understand where it comes from - other times it is no doubt unjustified. It is not fair that all western ladies are tarred with the same brush - but it cannot be dennied for the most part that most western tourists leave Thailand with the impression that all the thai women are "for sale" - and as such tourist are as guilty for "tarring" people based on limited knowledge or understanding. Bit of "ditto" maybe? I dunno.......

I came off all wrong in that post - and re-reading it I realise that. But the damage is done and as they say, when your in the hole, stop digging..... so I'll do just that, and again appologise for offending you (and others that I have englected to mention specifically here). But I did not mean to suggest that all this negativity is the direct result of Western Women, and wholly their fault. I merely meant to suggest (and did a poor job of it) that maybe in part it is the Western Tourist (non gender specific) attitude that is to blame, and further to a lesser extent that it may be a bit of bitchiness on the part of Thai girls directed directly at Western women born out of a sense of anger because of the "I'm better than you, you lowly hooker" attitude - which in my experience (as limited as that may be) is widespread but not universal.

[corkman]

I do go to Bangkok, girlx.

As for the western women chip thing, most definitely only in tourists and even then, have you actually seen one walk up to a thai girl with a western guy and confront directly? Or heard someone who claims they did?

No, not directly approaching the Thai girl. No, not directly approaching the western man in the obvious and direct presence of his thai partner. Mainly, in fact only in the condescending context of enquiring "why are you with a hooker, can't you get a girlfriend" sort of thing - but not straight to the thai girls face ..... that would be a death wish!

My friends wife was propositioned recently at a wedding - here in Ireland - "how much for the night" - this guy was just back from Thailand. One of my friends work colleuges propositioned my wife about a year ago........ both of these instances in happened in Ireland!

[sbk]

thank you for clearing that up. Far too often have men felt the need to post in this forum about how awful women are blah blah blah. So, as the moderator of this forum I feel it my duty to step on that kind of misogynistic attitude immediately. I am glad to hear that I misunderstood your post.

So, I guess what you are saying is that while people have these attitudes, and say them amongst themselves, they don't necessarily vocalize them to the people they encounter. That said, I doubt any female tourist would assume a girl working in a shop is available for sex while many tourist men do seem to feel that way. (have heard numerous stories of girls with normal jobs getting indecent proposals as well as many men who have posted on this forum with the idea that every woman from the shop girl to the som tam lady are up for it if money is involved)

And, in fact, I have to say that my experiences have generally been that many Thai people treat service personnel far worse than a foreigner would.

So, while your theories as to poor service and bad attitudes sound appealing, they don't really fit my experiences or those I have heard about. Perhaps others have had different experiences regarding this.

[corkman]

So, I guess what you are saying is that while people have these attitudes, and say them amongst themselves, they don't necessarily vocalize them to the people they encounter.

Yes. They don't generally vocalize them to the Thai people - though quite often assume that any western person they encounter shares their view, and feel they need to share. Something that bugs me personally - if "all" the people are so aweful, then why not just get the next flgiht home..... different matter.... But vocalizing is not required - their distain can be quite distinguishable just by observing behaviour - body language says alot - and Thai's are deaf..... if I can hear these comments (third party) then they can to. But out and out "approaching" a local and saying "I was wondering, are a hooker?" - no, certainly not.

That said, I doubt any female tourist would assume a girl working in a shop is available for sex while many tourist men do seem to feel that way.

I would agree with that, more or less entirely. However, I would add that alot the girls working in shops etc. socialise in the same bars and clubs (not beer bars and obvisou pick up joints) as tourists. In these bars and clubs, some of the girls are in fact "free lancers" as they are so elliqunetly labelled . Confusion and assumption can and does easily occur between those girls which are "up for it", those which are "up for it for a price" and those that are "there for a good time, not a man". Like I say, I feel it is understandable for the tourist, man or woman, to be mistaken but that does not mitigate the hurt and anger that "non-hooker" girls from their perspective - I would imagine that any lady (Thai, Western, or otherwise) would be irate if it was assumed they "were for sale" just for being in the same venue. So, what I am referring to is "the morning after"..... when the shop girl has dragged herself into work the following morning with memories of being chastised the night before.

Just to re-iterate, or to state clearly - I am not suggesting that all bad attitudes are because of this - but merely it may be contributing to them.

Me, personally, I always get treated well - maybe its my good nature only seeing positives...... maybe not..... I dunno. The only place in Thailand I have been that I felt in any way uncomfortable was Patong in Phuket. I found alot of the sales staff their quite rude in many respects - but my wife tells me alot of them are second generation immigrants???? I dunno????

I am glad to hear that I misunderstood your post.

Glad we made "our peace" too....... me not like conflict

[Samuian]

I may throw in the idea of "inferiority complex" - that s what I mostly encounter and yes I am a male...

...Caucasians are known to have an "attitude" - no one could ever really explain what this really means.

....if it comes to the competitiveness in the "rat race"... as has been mentioned, between females.

... whiter skin.

...blonder hair..

... more money..

...more this

....more that

...ahh well, if I am confronted with BS like this I walk away and never ever return to a place I have been treated like I am not welcome!

[zaza]

just a simple reminder : we live in Bangkok where there is many Centrals ,Malls and shopping complexes .

If you had a bad experience or was not satisfied from a service in a shop or a restaurant :it's just not the end of the world and you can head to the next shop few meters away from that one who had those "young gals" and you might get a very pleasant "young girl" in the very next shop who is doing her job quite well .

Whatever improper "treatment" or bad behavior you encounter you should always make sure you don't respond with the same "attitude" , just smile and say (kup kun ....) and move away; by doing this you might spear yourself that "thread" and also you'd show those "young Thai girls" a lesson of how a decent proper 'farang' lady react in such a provoking situation.

Remember ; a humble pleasant personality would never fail to attract ""most"" of the people you'd meet or encounter wherever you go.

[guava]

Then of course, there is the opposite issue, when it seems like every shop I walk past has exactly what I need, in my size, in my colour, etc etc - or so say the overly ambitious staff yelling "take a look please", and trying to drag me in by the arm. I can barely walk into some shops without being harrassed by shop assistants the second you pause. Young Thai ladies and effeminant guys are probably the worst. After Indian tailors of course.

I like shop assistants to keep a discrete distance (ie far enough away they can't keeping touching me plus, say, another 5 metres), and not hold up every single thing I might just possibly be looking for. If you stare at a shirt for more than 5 seconds, you'll have one person holding it against your back insisting that it "fit good naaaaaa farang size import jing", another one on your arm trying to sell you a belt or a clock or something, and a third one shoving a calculator in your face with a price on it, all without you saying a word. So many times I just walk away. Over-eagerness / poor staff training costs these businesses as much as under-service. If I need assistance I'll make eye contact, trust me. Thais don't seem to like the hard sell either.

Equally annoying in places like Robinson or Central (home of the permanent 30-70% off sale) is that the sales assistant working in the shoes Brand 'X' area can't or won't take you over to see something more suitable in the shoes brand 'Y' area. I assume they only get commission on sales in their area.

It's not just clothes shops of course. The guys in the big screen TV/whitegoods departments are like corgies on yabaa. I guess shop assistants are like dogs and cats - if they know you're scared or allergic they sense it When you need one they scatter like rats, or pretend to be deaf and dumb.

[corkman]

Notwithstanding my previsous comments etc. I must say, on a global scale, I find service, in general to be quite good in thailand.

I find that service in Europe in particular is shocking..... especially in restaraunts. It is not uncommon (except in the best of restaraunts) to have to ask more than once for a glass of water for example...... trying to get a waitors attention can even be so much effort that you begin to get emabrassed to ask.... and and up arguing with your companions who should ask for things...... I have found in even the cheapest places in Thailand all you need is to glance up and they are over...... and check frequently to make sure everything is ok.

As far as those clerks that annoy you all in shops with over persistence - yes it is mildly annoying if you are just browsing - but compare it to trying to ask someone in debinhams for your size...... half an hour later....

Just as a general comment - for anyone not that familiar with THailand (i.e. any tourist for example) - I feel it should be noted that they are not like the vultures you'd come accross in Costa Del Sol or Turkey..... and while there are instances like girlx is high lighting, I think the shopping experience as a whole is a positive thing in Thailand..... from a non-residents point of view.

Not that I do that much shopping other than dodgy dvd's & cd's to be honest..... but I usually have the unfortunate displeasure of being forced to accompany my wife on her 'retail therapy' outings.......

[sylviex]

There's an indisputable aspect of bitchiness that seems to spark the way young Thai women interact with non-Thai women.

Many of the reasons have been cited above, but one that might not have is the way that Thai ladies do somewhat view farang ladies as enemy. I think most of us expect some sense of solidarity amongst our gender, and feel startled when this expectation is not met. It's a jungle ! and yes, the younger the girl, the more they have been exposed to other ways of life, and the less likely they may feel allegiance to the cultural norms of existing to serve those who created her. However, she has almost always been taught that her ability to "catch" a high-earning man is her greatest strength. Thus, a conflicting mix of feelings.

I think these girls envy our "freedom" and perceived power, the latter being no more than any individual should have, anyway.

Girls are used terribly here, there's no way around that. Boys, also. And pride is at such high stakes ...

[burman]

However, she has almost always been taught that her ability to "catch" a high-earning man is her greatest strength. Thus, a conflicting mix of feelings.

When western women say things like "Most Thai women have been taught that gold digging is their greatest strength" I think you can understand the problem comes from both sides.

[sbk]

However, she has almost always been taught that her ability to "catch" a high-earning man is her greatest strength. Thus, a conflicting mix of feelings.

When western women say things like "Most Thai women have been taught that gold digging is their greatest strength" I think you can understand the problem comes from both sides.

interesting, because usually I hear these comments from men on this forum

[burman]

Yes, many men say it also SBK. And lots on this forum I quite agree.

You say my point was 'interesting' and posted the whistling smiley, but do you actually agree with it or not?

I posted an observation, not an attack so no need to counter attack...

[burman]

And to be quite honest I think a fair observation.

I know a lot of Thai girls that are under the impression that western women look down on them, perhaps it is a source of resentment?

[guava]

Oh yeah? My friend reckons that girls and made from slugs and snails and boys are made from sugar and spice and all things nice!

How do you like THEM apples? *stirs up controversy* *shoots* *scores*

*runs off to bed*