Culinary Racism (by Thais Against Farangs)

[Jingthing]

I love good food of many cultures.

When I go to a Mexican restaurant, I want Mexican food. I want the same thing the Mexicans get.

Fill in the blank for Mexican, for any other country, and most reasonable people when they go to a restaurant featuring the food of a specific country, they are there for that kind of food, or they wouldn't be there.

What is up with Thai restaurants giving farangs DIFFERENT food than they serve Thais, even when the farang did not ask for anything special or different?

Some might say they are being polite and trying to protect us from spices.

I say they are practicing culinary racism. They clearly believe there is something about white skin that makes it impossible for us to enjoy their food. I am insulted by this and feel cheated.

A few examples:

Went into a Thai Chinese restaurant a few weeks ago and ordered up a few dishes. It was busy and filled with Thais and Chinese tourists. I got fantastic, authentic food! Clearly the staff was too busy to "help" the farang order by ruining the food, and just cooked it as they would normally cook it for their usual crowd.

Went back when they were empty. Ordered the exact same dishes. They were disgusting. No flavor. No spice. Cooked entirely differently. I felt seriously cheated. (Yes, I did complain.)

Just visited Iberry ice cream store in Pattaya. I know that sometimes they have durian ice cream. In my view, it is their best ice cream. The durian ice cream is the only flavor there labeled in THAI only! As if there are no farangs who love durian. Insulting. Culinary racism again.

I calls em like i sees em.

BTW, I know it is not only the Thais that do this. Living in the US, there is the same problem with all kinds of Asian restaurants. The only way to solve is to become a regular at a place, be obnoxious and insistent in asserting your rights as a customer, and TRAIN them that you want the same food they serve Asians. Again, sorry, this is not polite. It is racist and unfair to customers as well, charging the same money for inferior food. It really, really, should not be that hard to get the same food Asian people get automatically by virtue of their racial characteristics.

Do you see my point?

Edited May 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[boiledegg]

Is there a word for people who use the racism card for some bizarre made up reason.

[Nignoy]

Is there a word for people who use the racism card for some bizarre made up reason.

yes the word is Pillock Nignoy

[Jingthing]

Is there a word for people who use the racism card for some bizarre made up reason.

I don't know. This word you speak of is not interesting to me.

But explain to me why this happens? On what basis are these bizarre culinary decisions made at these restaurants?

Smell? Weight? Nationality? If I was an Asian American, this wouldn't be an issue. Get it now?

The decisions are made on RACE. Thus, it is indeed RACISM. A severe form? No. Annoying. Yes.

I stand by the use of the word in this context.

I cannot know exactly what goes through the mind of a specific waiter or cook who decides to ballocks up my food. All I know for sure is it wouldn't be happening if I had Asian RACIAL features, and it happens alot, and I don't, so please tell me, what I am supposed to conclude?

Edited May 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[DP25]

Yeah, this has been a big problem for me as well. Speaking Thai generally helps, but not always, and some times the food is awful because they think a farang can not eat Thai food. Of course, Thais can be affected by this as well. I have a Thai friend that can not spicy food at all. She's constantly telling food vendors and restaurants she doesn't want it spicy, and they apparently don't believe her, as the food ends up in the trash because she can not eat it.

[Jingthing]

I am not only talking about spicy or not spicy. I know how to ask for spicy in Thai. I am talking about cooking the food entirely differently because a farang ordered it.

In the case of the Thai Chinese restaurant in the OP, one of the dishes wasn't even a spicy dish to begin with, so asking for it spicy would not have been relevant. I would have had to say, don't be racist, cook it like you would for a Thai or Chinese. Why should we have to say anything if we just want the food cooked NORMALLY as if we were Asian, whatever is proper for the dish? I have only lived here two years but I am pretty sure if I live here 20 years the same things will happen. Living here 20 years, a person can easily BECOME Asian. But they will still get this kind of insulting treatment at restaurants. Racism, chai mai?

Edited May 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[TheDon]

Never exprienced this before in Thailand

[TheDon]

I actually think you are venting over a har day.

Once I went to Mcdonalds and it had hair in it. Do you think Im going to make a topic and call them racist?

Silly thread

[Jimjim]

Jingthing, culinary racism? You crack me up.

In the end, though, what you say does make a little sense. I wouldn't call it racism, just ignorance. But some would say those two words go hand in hand, so good on ya.

[Jingthing]

Some people care more about FOOD than others. That's all I can say. It is not silly. Read the food blogs in the US about the treatment of ROUND EYES as they call them at all kinds of Asian restaurants. This is a huge issue in foodie circles. In the US in many ways it is worse. Chinese language only menus (never translated) where all the "good stuff" is listed are very common. The round eyes get to choose the sweet and sour pork or lemon chicken, while the Asians are offered gourmet feasts. But the thing is, alot of non-Asians really love real Asian food.

Edited May 26, 2008 by Jingthing

[Groongthep]

I agree with you Jingthing. I too love real Thai food and feel ripped off when I get a dumbed down farang version of a dish I know the restaurant can (and does) prepare correctly for asians but not for me. This of course, happens much more frequently at Thai restaurants in the west than it does in Thailand, but it does happen here sometimes too. Suda's on Suk 14 is a great example. I have learned to reduce the chances of this happening however by simply asking ขอทำแบบไทยหน่อยครับ ไม่เอวแบบฝรั่งนะ (kaw tham baeb thai noy krap - mai aw baeb farang na) after ordering in a place where I suspect this might happen. .....as for it being racist if they give me the bland version versus the real deal..I don't really think it's so much racist as just ignorance. Nothing to get upset about unless they continue to do it after being asked not to on more than one occasion.

[5tash]

The majority of Farangs are unable to palate Thai food, therefore Thai food is often "watered down" to suit Farang tastes. When you are ordering food in a Thai restaurant, Thais usually assume you are unable to eat "Thai satyle". I always point out I can.

[jumnien]

Perhaps you were not in the restaurant to see the fat tattooed Brit who came in one day raging about the bad, spicy food and don't these peasants know how to cook and claiming attempted murder because his food was too spicy.

[cophen]

The phrase 'Professional Victim' springs to mind...

[Briggsy]

Oh if I had received a baht for the number of times I have been asked, "Can you eat spicy food?"

[grtaylor]

Never exprienced this before in Thailand

Agreed - seventeen years here and never been aware of this in Thailand.

Now, getting a decent Thai meal in the UK?? impossible, for the very reasons the OP states, not spicy enough for me, and no real flavour. However, again, ordering in Thai helps a little.

[grtaylor]

The majority of Farangs are unable to palate Thai food . . . . .

I'm sorry, but I really think that statement is nonsense. Some, perhaps, but not the majority!

[Etrigan]

Jingthing - You have to learn to read Thai at least. Believe me, it will make a huge difference. Sorry man, but I can't sympathise with this when here you are living in Thailand without the Thai language. Why should they bother when you can't be. Let's turn the tables, a Thai dining in a posh west-end restaurant of London without a word of English - just how far do you think that person would get?

Learn the lingo.

[Naam]

Is there a word for people who use the racism card for some bizarre made up reason.

the word is "Jingthing"

[david96]

Speaking as a Whiteman, or in other words in this case an Anglo-Australian one cannot see what he problem is, when in Thailand I eat only Thai food and have "no problem."

This is not to say that some Whitemen complain.

Why do people hide their race? Being proud of your race does not make one "racist."

Edited May 27, 2008 by david96

[DP25]

Jingthing - You have to learn to read Thai at least. Believe me, it will make a huge difference.

I can read Thai, and it still happens sometimes, though admittedly a lot less than it used to. Some people just see that I'm white and automatically change things because they think that's what farang want. It is a lot easier now than when I couldn't read or speak Thai at all though. I remember one time before I could speak Thai, I wanted to eat the same thing the Thai I was sitting with was eating. It wasn't on the English menu, so I asked my friend to order one for me. The waitress told told me this food was for Thai people, not farang. It was only a type of rad na.

[PhilHarries]

Never exprienced this before in Thailand

Agreed - seventeen years here and never been aware of this in Thailand.

Now, getting a decent Thai meal in the UK?? impossible, for the very reasons the OP states, not spicy enough for me, and no real flavour. However, again, ordering in Thai helps a little.

Not always. A bunch of us went back to UK on R&R a few years back, well about 15 years actually. To impress our friends back there we took them to a Thai restaurant and proceded to order in Thai from the Asian looking waitress. She answered in a broad Brummie (Birmingham) accent "Can you order in English I can't speak Thai". Doh! I dare say things have changed a bit in the ensuing years.

Same same here in Viet Nam. There are two menus in the hotel restaurant one in Vietnamese and English and one in Vietnamese only. One day I decided to compare the two menus and discovered a hel_l of a lot more dishes in the Vietnamese one and, having eaten a few of them now, I can say in general they are better tasting than the English/Viet choices. However the staff do take some persuading that you actually do want what you are ordering and it should not be adulterated.

Also in Thailand I have noticed that restaurants with two menus will have different dishes listed. I don't think it is anything sinister like racism, they are just trying to avoid farangs ordering stuff then trying to avoid paying for something they don't like. A while back I visited a Lebanese restaurant in south Pattaya and the waitress was very concerned that I wouldn't like what I ordered. I ordered anyway, ate it, paid and wouldn't exactly rush back to eat it again but there was nothing wrong with it.

I have noticed a bit of culinary adulteration in Thailand but mainly a toning down of the spice level and that is easy to overcome. I've not noticed dishes cooked completely differently just because a farang ordered but the same dish can vary wildly restaurant to restaurant.

[Bluelotus]

The Lemon Grass is always greener on the other guys Yam

Edited May 27, 2008 by Bluelotus

[PeaceBlondie]

If you cannot read a Thai language menu....eat Western food. Or, you could launch into a 8900-word diatribe in Urdu about the racism of Farengi against Vulcans on the star system XYZABD.

[ovenman]

A decent attempt at starting a Weho-esque topic...

[PeaceBlondie]

One reason that I gave up ordering any Thai food besides fruit and khaow paht gai is that there were no Thai words that really tell them to leave out all the stuff I hate.

[kmart]

Sometimes a blander version of some of the more fiery dishes isn't a bad thing... A lot of Thais will seemingly put chilis on aspirins.

Or a 1lb of sugar.

[soisicknote]

I love good food of many cultures.

When I go to a Mexican restaurant, I want Mexican food. I want the same thing the Mexicans get.

Fill in the blank for Mexican, for any other country, and most reasonable people when they go to a restaurant featuring the food of a specific country, they are there for that kind of food, or they wouldn't be there.

What is up with Thai restaurants giving farangs DIFFERENT food than they serve Thais, even when the farang did not ask for anything special or different?

Some might say they are being polite and trying to protect us from spices.

I say they are practicing culinary racism. They clearly believe there is something about white skin that makes it impossible for us to enjoy their food. I am insulted by this and feel cheated.

A few examples:

Went into a Thai Chinese restaurant a few weeks ago and ordered up a few dishes. It was busy and filled with Thais and Chinese tourists. I got fantastic, authentic food! Clearly the staff was too busy to "help" the farang order by ruining the food, and just cooked it as they would normally cook it for their usual crowd.

Went back when they were empty. Ordered the exact same dishes. They were disgusting. No flavor. No spice. Cooked entirely differently. I felt seriously cheated. (Yes, I did complain.)

Just visited Iberry ice cream store in Pattaya. I know that sometimes they have durian ice cream. In my view, it is their best ice cream. The durian ice cream is the only flavor there labeled in THAI only! As if there are no farangs who love durian. Insulting. Culinary racism again.

I calls em like i sees em.

BTW, I know it is not only the Thais that do this. Living in the US, there is the same problem with all kinds of Asian restaurants. The only way to solve is to become a regular at a place, be obnoxious and insistent in asserting your rights as a customer, and TRAIN them that you want the same food they serve Asians. Again, sorry, this is not polite. It is racist and unfair to customers as well, charging the same money for inferior food. It really, really, should not be that hard to get the same food Asian people get automatically by virtue of their racial characteristics.

Do you see my point?

how about the word your "paranoid" i think its time to use your return air ticket

[Prakanong]

Some people care more about FOOD than others. That's all I can say. It is not silly. Read the food blogs in the US about the treatment of ROUND EYES as they call them at all kinds of Asian restaurants. This is a huge issue in foodie circles. In the US in many ways it is worse. Chinese language only menus (never translated) where all the "good stuff" is listed are very common. The round eyes get to choose the sweet and sour pork or lemon chicken, while the Asians are offered gourmet feasts. But the thing is, alot of non-Asians really love real Asian food.

Thats an old chestnut that has been put to bed many times about the best stuff listed in Chinese etc - the only time i have been told it was different was when it was particularly foul innards.

I eat with Asians nearly every day of my life now - we eat the same, they do not change anything for me whether I am with colleagues or eat alone.

I eat the sweet and sour pork as well as the 10 course banquets with abalone, shark's fine and fish belly soup etc - we all get offered it. They doi not change if I am there with other caucasions.

I do like my grub.

[Prakanong]

Never exprienced this before in Thailand

Agreed - seventeen years here and never been aware of this in Thailand.

Now, getting a decent Thai meal in the UK?? impossible, for the very reasons the OP states, not spicy enough for me, and no real flavour. However, again, ordering in Thai helps a little.

I have had no problem getting Thai food as its served in Thailand in the UK - making sure it was a Thai set up though and not Chinese or Viet posing as Thai as the craze for Thai places grew - just tell them you live in Thailand or the region.

A place in Edinburgh always cooked me stuff off the menu as I grew to know them and socialise with them at the casino etc.