Surely Dowry Is Tradition?

[way2muchcoffee]

Deleted.

Edited May 28, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[Nysan]

Hold on,

your wedding was about 120K and then it included hotel for the guests? Don´t get me wrong but I don´t want to get overcharged. The wedding is to be in a air force base, so no fancy stuff at all.

And to the rest of you all: yes, another "sin sod thread". Before I was laughing at them to but it now I am at the wrong side of the stick:(. Help, please.

Who made your wedding arrangements?

[way2muchcoffee]

Hold on,

your wedding was about 120K and then it included hotel for the guests? Don´t get me wrong but I don´t want to get overcharged. The wedding is to be in a air force base, so no fancy stuff at all.

And to the rest of you all: yes, another "sin sod thread". Before I was laughing at them to but it now I am at the wrong side of the stick:(. Help, please.

Who made your wedding arrangements?

Hotel for 3 guests (my brother and 2 friends). My wife's grandmother assisted a bit, but mostly my wife and I made all the wedding arrangements. I have a truck so we arrived a few days before the wedding. Picked up tent/tables/dishes from the village head. Ice from a local vendor. Pigs from the pig farm. Vegies, fruit and flowers from the local market. Sauces, Beer, Whiskey and other sundries from the Makro. We had a DJ for 2 days. Hired some dancers and musicians for the wedding procession. We had all the clothing made in BKK before going up for the wedding. It was really a lot of work, but in the end was completely worth it.

Edited May 28, 2008 by way2muchcoffee

[distortedlink]

hi every one, i've been reading up on everybodys dowry comments, and it seems to me that its a bit of a sore wound and its making me paranoid because i get wed in a few months. the lady i met is ace, known her for 2 and a half years. i go to LOS regularly and spend a load of time with her, her family is quite industrious owning 2 businesses, (chemical fertilizer for rice paddys) and they seem on the ball. i agreed to pay 500,000 baht for sin sod but i will get back 400,000. she is only 22 years old and has college education and i'm 28 and have a very good job. all i ask is that people give me a bit feedback about if this is a realistic figure for sin sod. i know that most people don't like paying sin sod but i think that if i am going to settle in thailand i need to respect tradition and thai culture, so please sensible answers people

many thanks

Ali

Mugs never listen to advice or use common sense, they only learn from experience. There`s your sensible answer.

Edited May 28, 2008 by distortedlink

[burman]

I don't see the problem, he can afford it and gets most of it back doesn't he?

OP, pay the money and enjoy your wedding. Let others run around price checking their wives and comparing them with the other wives in aisle 6.

Edited May 28, 2008 by burman

[Mossfinn]

I predict a thread of a minimum of 100 posts.

Up to 28 posts in one day. 100 posts, it's a banker.

Un-flaming-believable!!

Moss

[Neeranam]

Hold on,

your wedding was about 120K and then it included hotel for the guests? Don´t get me wrong but I don´t want to get overcharged. The wedding is to be in a air force base, so no fancy stuff at all.

And to the rest of you all: yes, another "sin sod thread". Before I was laughing at them to but it now I am at the wrong side of the stick:(. Help, please.

Who made your wedding arrangements?

My wedding had a stage, singers and dancers. 200+ people and a large marquee in my out-laws garden. Don't wory, it doesn't have to be expensive. I left it up to the mother-in-law. 40,000 baht, which was paid out the dowry.

[TAWP]

How does a normal Thai person raise 100k+ for sinsod/dowry, please?

Depends on how you define "normal" Thais. The "normal" Thais I work with would not have much problem raising 100k as they all make over that in a month.

I have gone to 3 of their weddings and all had a sin sot distributions of over 500.

At only one of them am I good enough friends to know the "deal" and that was the 750k was returned minus a “token” 100k that went to her grandmother.

TH

100K in a month?

Yeah, that sounds like 'normal' Thais.

[dee123]

....LOOK !its all quite very simple as a Thai guy recently explained to me;.......... "Rich Farang marry poor Issaan daughter he pays sinsod more than poor Thai boy give to Issaan girl,Rich falang make baby with poor Issaan girl,baby grow up marry poor Thai boy,poor Thai boy not pay sinsod to Rich farang,Rich farang pay sinsod again for poor Thai boy)make happy family for grandad,grandad like Rich farang boy,grandad want daughter with passport,to make mama happy,mama not sure Rich farang bad,Rich farang go back home,mama papa happy too much,Rich farang girl pay sinsod for poor Thai boy too"........I hope that clarify's any misgivings you may have.......any questions you should take a look at "Briggsy's Rough Guide to Sinsot"available from bookstores....

Edited May 28, 2008 by dee123

[Mossfinn]

Almost second page on the first day, anyone heard anything new?

No? What a surprize

Moss

[bigtimeali]

hi guys,

i'm not been funny here but i started this thread and i am quite happy to hear peoples views, what i do object to is people insinuating that i'm an idiot for trying to make an effort to intrigrate with another culture. i have worked in a few different european countries in my work and they all have different traits which i have had to adapt to so that strong friendships can arise. my future wife has saved a a couple of thousand pound for the wedding her self and she is from bangkok, i am normally a good judge of character, but i am still young and i am not infallible, all i was asking in the original question was that is the figure for sin sod a reasonable amount to pay? i understand that face is very important in thailand, hence i will be willing to "show the money", i don't think i am being nieve in taking somebodies word that they will give the money back when i trust them, if they don't, i will look a fool, especially as i am paying for my mum to be there (again family important and i want my family to be there as well) if it all goes pair shaped(touch wood it doesn't happen) i will post another thread saying that all the doomsday mongerers are right, but surely there are some relationships that aren't a scam in thailand that a few bad apples like to predict will happen to everyone?

thanks for the respone people

it's been enlightening

Ali

[dee123]

...the trouble is ingrained, Thai tradition is one thing, but how many years has "farang" been part of Thai tradition?...none is the answer,.....it has just become the norm in some peoples minds that its the right thing to do, to pay the exagerated sinsot a farang is sometimes expecected to pay even if they have to put their own future and wellbeing in the hands of an Issan family,many westerners find it a struggle to survive even in their own country.One by one the Thais are learning its not so easy a life in the west,rather its just a case of a "stronger currency".....and as I have said in many earlier postings on sinsod,there doesnt seem to be the same "tradition" when its time for the farang to receive sinsod,......make of that as you will.......unfair I suggest as is double pricing and similar....of corse you have the big "Issaan tycoons" who sit in their white masions as king of the castle,.....and should anything go wrong they just buy there way out of trouble,........"feeble" is the only word I can use to describe their explanation of "how much is expected" for either "young" "attractive"...expect to pay more ect,......what a charade!...pay what you like,indeed work out your future finanaces with your intended but if you find your putting your own stability and likelyhood of ruin don't say you haven't been warned.Thailand is no longer a learning curve, wake up you guys...The very fact that you have to ask advice is troubling in itself,....was the amount unexpected or had you been told that ALL farangs are expected to pay more,.....really guys stop this nonsense,....there are leaders and followers in this life, for e.g the people who I read and admire on this boared mostly reconise the fact that there is an injustice occurring at the present..the other people "followers" are either asking "how much" is reasonable or telling you what they think is a "reasonable amount" like lemons jumping off a cliff you lot really are.....

Edited May 28, 2008 by dee123

[harrisonaviator]

The only person who can answer "Should I pay Sinsod or not is YOU".

Of course you will get those people on their High Horses saying I did not pay a penny, My thai wife was University educated,her family have a business and they never wanted a baht out of me. Any family asking for Sinsod are a load of vulture's out for what they can get.

A while back I was upset when my Thai girlfriend's mum and dad asked for 200,000B dowry. I thought that was far too high but my girlfriend pointed out I had spent twice that partying in Phuket that past year. I can easily spend 400,000B on hotels,getting drunk and living the easy life in Phuket but when my Thai girlfriends mum and dad want 200,000B for their daughters hand in marriage I get angry and think I am being taken for a fool.

I think she had a point. Sadly we are no longer together.

If you love her and think she is genuine dont think too much about paying a dowry. If you cant afford that dowry then try to explain and come up with a compromise. If they dont care you cant afford it then dont marry her. Simple as that. If you can afford it and love her and think she loves you back pay up.

That's my advice.

All the best.

[bigtimeali]

yes i do think she is worth it, much more in fact! i know her parents aren't shy of a penny and she does apprieciate its a lot of money. but having said that she insisted that she pay at least some of it, she managed to save 80,000 baht over 14 month, not alot i know to western standards but to me it shows commitment in our future to be together.i know people will say its the long scam. but i look at it this way that any nationality can scam you. it just seems that a lot of people get there fingers burnt here and seem to hold a lot of resentment to other peoples happiness, surely there are some success stories out there that have paid and recieved back the sin sod while making there loved ones family happy that a farang is trying to accept there way of life?

[dee123]

...con't .....the numerous amount of well meaning guys I have met travelling on planes in hotel receptions and the like over the 25 years I have known Thailand telling me their plans to have a "quickie" marriage is just about equalled by the amount of tales of woe caused by paying more than they could afford,...but still people on this boared have the front to stand and explain in their "misguided" manner..that I am mistaken and don't appreciate different cultures,.....take a stand now you will be surprised where moral courage can get you.I personally am still married to the same lady as like many others who did not pay sinsod but shared the responsability of making a living between us,these type of relationships seem to me to realistically stand a better chance of surviving the test of time,and it doesn't take too long before the "gold medallion man" is sent packing.to his second or third thai wife.

Edited May 28, 2008 by dee123

[wolf5370]

Sin Sod is one thing, and I think you have alrady decided to pay it and you can afford it - it does not seem excessive to me - so I guess you have your answer already.

As you have a long way to retirement, you need to look into visas and work permits etc if you wish to 'settle' here.

The real danger (sorry I do not know your wife-to-be etc, so I am being generic here) is the protecting your life together afterwards. Hardly any of the multitude of sob stories are relating to sin sod, most are about their lovely wife/GF/whatever suddenly aking on a whole new persona, taking up with some ex-boyfriend and kicking them out - leaving them wth diddly as its all in 'her' name. This is the stuff to protect - the stuff you can't walk away from - your life.

look into Usufructs and rent rather than buy if you can justify it financially. 100k Baht is a few thousand pounds, paifull to loose, but nothing that will bankrupt the average farang - how about a 5 million baht house and contents! It makes sense whether you trust her or not - if she (and her family) understand that there is nothing to gain from your expulsion, then it is unlikely to ever be a goal - and the pressure is off. I'm not saying anything bad will happen, nor am I saying her family are a bunch of con artists, but we insure our cars just in case, not because we expect to crash it!

Just for your info, I didn't pay sin sod. I paid for the wedding reception - which my parents in law (to be) limited to real friends, neighbours and family. I also bought a load of pressies that were not requested, but I wanted to - like an American style fridge with ice maker etc, aircon unit etc. I pay no monthly sum, but have helped with a few things over the years (a car, help with purchasing a new house when the old man retired etc) - never been asked, just could see they could use the help at the time.

[bigtimeali]

i know this has digressed at bit but i am lucky that i have a job that allows me to work 3 months on and 3 months off if i want, ideal for visa's. at the moment i am working about 9 months of the year outside the u.k. no where glamourous just germany and around europe i work long hours in a physically and mentally demanding job, the first time i went to thailand was on a lads holiday, so i did not see the real thailand but i found the place where i wanted to try experiancing on my own, pattaya is o.k. for a day or so but you don't really sample what thailand is about there. i go thailand when ever i have time off and try to find the true feeling of thailand, jungle, fishing and generally enjoying the pace of life out there and having a laugh with the people(in bars out of bars where ever) i find that i relax and feel comfortable there, i fell in love with the place, because of this, i decided i wanted to live there, so i am working hard for the next 5 year to get a bit of coin(in my bank account of course) i didn't fall out the bannana boat so i am not willing put my cash in anyone elses control and that goes for investments, of course i will rent somewhere until i find a place that i want to buy. but, i also know that i am in no rush to buy a place with out living in the area for an extended time and making sure that i consult a thai laywer about trying to make sure i have control, be it a lease or company. i didn't meet my g/f in a bar or nightclub, i met her in a cafe and it me ages to get her to go on a date. from my first experiance of thailand on the lads holiday i can understand that a lot of people fall in "love" in pattaya, mostly, there drunk for starters, and the girls are plying there trade, its there job!!! i must admit that i do enjoy going to the beerbars, and as soon as they understand that your not in there to be a john you can have a good laugh with the girls there. but like everywhere else there's bad eggs. i am awear of the risks, lifes a gamble, knowlege is power and who dares wins. if i don't try it then i will never find out. all i asked was a question regarding sin sod because i thought people with experiance would shed some light on it, thank you for the people that gave useful advice, and for all the guys that think i'm a sucker, i hope to prove you wrong, there's only 1 way to find out!!!!

[Heng]

I think it's important to note that these debates often aren't really about Thai tradition, but the tradition of the foreign sinsod experience in Thailand, a tradition unto itself.

Kind of like squat toilets, long in use before you got here and NOT inherently good OR bad... some can make the adjustment without any problem: easy, better for the digestive tract, all good (it doesn't mean that's the norm). On the other hand, some lose their balance or get pushed over and flail about on the floor... before they can get up, a whole line of inlaws start coming in to piss on the on the poor bugger one after the other (that doesn't mean that that's a tradition or norm either though).

Edited May 29, 2008 by Heng

[gzu88bv]

My 2 cents.

Sin Sot as I learned is a Thai tradition. It may even go back to China. What has that to do with me the Farang?

Most Farangs do not understand Sin Sot anyway, neither do I and this after living in this country now for quite a while.

As I understand in marriage between Thais, the Sin Sot is a way to show respect towards the bride’s family. The new husband is expected to pay as much as he can afford, the bigger the Sin Sot, the more he is respected by his new family.

Me, the “stupid” Farang does not buy respect, I earn it. I also would never “barfine” my lady and then declare her as my wife. When a Thai lady marries a Farang most Thai families do not like it too much, therefore my wife-to-be has to show to her family that she is marrying a good Farang man and a bigger Sin Sot does therefore matter.

And money talks, especially up here in Isaan. And if that Sin Sot is big enough, it even declares that 70-year-old bugger with his 22-year-old-wife a valid match (no pun intended).

Farang wake up and think twice before you start something that you really do not understand!

[thaihome]

100K in a month?

Yeah, that sounds like 'normal' Thais.

Well, since they don't hang around Sukhumvit and don't have anything to do with the tourist industry, you probably have never seen "normal" middle class Thais.

TH

[dr_Pat_Pong]

100K in a month?

Yeah, that sounds like 'normal' Thais.

Well, since they don't hang around Sukhumvit and don't have anything to do with the tourist industry, you probably have never seen "normal" middle class Thais.

TH

ain't that the truth.

[coventry]

From what I've been reading I came across these few statements. I'm not saying they're correct but the writer seemed to be sure of him/herself.

Sin Sod. Traditionally is supposed to be used for setting up the household of the newly weds. In fact the brides parents are supposed to contribute to the dowry as well. At the wedding, the dowry money would be shown to the wedding party, then put into a safe keeping , by the brides parents until the newly weds first child is born.

A woman of ill repute, is regarded "damaged goods" and no payment is expected.

[saraburioz]

A woman of ill repute, is regarded "damaged goods" and no payment is expected.

What is that? I think afarang and a Thai have different definitions of this

A girl who goes to look for a farang in Sukumvit Road?

A girl who prostitutes herself on a Thai Love Website?

A girl who works in a restaurant in Pattaya?

A girl who has lost her virginity?

I know a lot of farangs who expect to give a woman of ill repute a sin sod

[wolf5370]

....i didn't fall out the bannana boat so i am not willing put my cash in anyone elses control and that goes for investments, of course i will rent somewhere until i find a place that i want to buy. but, i also know that i am in no rush to buy a place with out living in the area for an extended time and making sure that i consult a thai laywer about trying to make sure i have control, be it a lease or company. i didn't meet my g/f in a bar or nightclub, i met her in a cafe and it me ages to get her to go on a date. from my first experiance of thailand on the lads holiday i can understand that a lot of people fall in "love" in pattaya, mostly, there drunk for starters, and the girls are plying there trade, its there job!!! i must admit that i do enjoy going to the beerbars, and as soon as they understand that your not in there to be a john you can have a good laugh with the girls there. but like everywhere else there's bad eggs. i am awear of the risks, lifes a gamble, knowlege is power and who dares wins. if i don't try it then i will never find out. all i asked was a question regarding sin sod because i thought people with experiance would shed some light on it, thank you for the people that gave useful advice, and for all the guys that think i'm a sucker, i hope to prove you wrong, there's only 1 way to find out!!!!

Mmmm. Don't think for a moment that the all bar girls are rip off merchants nor that non-bar girls are all angels - many a bar girl has made a great wife and many a 'good girl' has left her ex-farang-husband out in the cold too.

I was only trying to help by mentioning the usufruct protection and to hint that you don't loose sight of the big bucks whilst worrying over pennies. If you think this means I think you are a sucker, then I retract my advice and hope you 'Thai Lawyer' remembers to tell you about Usufructs and the right way to protect mortgages/leases etc and which to register with whom - good luck staying dry in that banana boat

[distortedlink]

There are Thai families out there that have made scamming Farangs into an industry. Sin-sod is mostly a product of that industry. There are genuine cases, but mainly between those of families of status in the upper classes as an alliance especially where there is businesses involved. For the average Thai, demanding money from other Thais for marriage into their family is extremely rare.

Scamming is big business, the African business scams, Russian dating scams, Thai sin-sod & marriage scams.

Paying money demands such as sin-sod is not integrating into Thai culture, but buying into a scam, well, temporary anyway until the offending parties are satisfied that they have screwed the mugs for as much as possible. Under restrictions imposed on Farangs in Thai law it is virtually impossible for Farangs to legally own anything, except certain vehicles, so any monies given for real estate or businesses is going to be on paper given to Thai people who will have control of these assets.

True love should never involve demands for money, if it does, than it's a scam.

Those Farangs that participate by giving money are fuelling and encouraging the scamming industries.

Edited May 29, 2008 by distortedlink

[Maigo6]

For the average Thai, demanding money from other Thais for marriage into their family is extremely rare.

Huh ?

Tell me, have you ever actually been to Thailand, or are Internet Forums your only experience ?

[Maigo6]

My wedding cost around 120k for around 50 people

You were ripped off mate.

You married into The Thai Aristocracy and you think 120,000 Baht is excessive ?

What did the Aristocratic guests at your wedding eat and drink, Lao Khao and Somtam ?

Then again in an earlier thread of yours many moons ago, you complained about the cost of schools in Thailand, I would have thought that a guy with such aristocratic connections would have sent their children to any school in any country in the world without breaking sweat or considering cost.

Quote from saraburioz : My sons get a bad deal at the local school.

I can't afford the international schools, and the local government ones are not good.

After having seen and heard what thai boys(teenag) get up to, i DEFINATELY would not want my daughter growing up in thailand.

A good Troll at least keeps track of his lies, and you ain't that good mate.

Edited May 29, 2008 by Maigo6

[coventry]

If it's Thai tradition to pay Sin Sot then has anyone knowledge of a Thai man marrying a Farang lady and paid it? I believe that a Thai man did when he wed ex Miss Universe last year but I'm not sure if she gave it back. Open to answers

[TAWP]

100K in a month?

Yeah, that sounds like 'normal' Thais.

Well, since they don't hang around Sukhumvit and don't have anything to do with the tourist industry, you probably have never seen "normal" middle class Thais.

TH

ain't that the truth.

Nice, unjustified attack on character by a poster (against the rules) and cheered on by the admin.

[burman]

For the average Thai, demanding money from other Thais for marriage into their family is extremely rare.

You can't know many Thai people as it's very common in Thailand. Do you get your info from Thai people or other farangs?