Upcountry Residents Convert Vehicles To Ngv, Lpg

[george]

Upcountry residents convert vehicles to NGV, LPG

PHITSANULOK: -- Feeling the pinch from a continued surge in retail oil prices, many motorists in this northeastern province and nearby have queued up to have their vehicles fitted with natural gas for vehicles (NGV) and liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) kits.

A large number of motorists had brought their vehicles to seek mechanical adaptation services at more than 10 NGV and LPG kit installation shops available in the province and nearby since they could not bear the burden of higher costs of fuels whose price had already surpassed 40 baht per litre.

The LPG kit installation service prices range from Bt18,000-59,000 and those of the NGV service from Bt40,000-63,000, depending on the engine system of the vehicles.

An installation payment service is provided by the shops to ease the burdens of their customers.

Neung Rodchampa, technician at the VIP Preeda Pitsanulok Garage, said an average of more than 10 vehicles sought the NGV and LPG kit installation services daily.

But the garage could provide the service for only three vehicles per day since the installation of the kits on each vehicle needs a few days to complete.

So, some customers must wait for the queue to get the service in December.

In addition, he said, there is a shortage of NGV and LPG cylinders at present. Customers are required to book the cylinders in advance.

-- TNA 2008-05-28

[apetley]

I have already heard a story of a local guy who couldn't afford the rising fual prices so had his car converted to gas.

Couln't afford the conversion price either so the garage loaned him the money secured on his car.

Now he can't keep up the loan repayments and is afraid of losing his car!

[billd766]

All this is fine IF you live in the city where LPG/NGV stations are available and IF you can afford the installation costs.

However as for example myself living 65km from the nearest refuelling point it is pretty much a pointless exercise and as for the local farmers etc who live around the area it would be a waste of time.

Furthermore at some stage in time people will try to store the LPG/NGV at home or on the farm and when that happens there will be a somewhat loud bang.

I will believe in it becoming popular when tractors and kwae leks get converted too.

[jayjayjayjay]

Upcountry residents convert vehicles to NGV, LPG

PHITSANULOK: -- Feeling the pinch from a continued surge in retail oil prices, many motorists in this northeastern province and nearby have queued up to have their vehicles fitted with natural gas for vehicles (NGV) and liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) kits.

........snip...........

In addition, he said, there is a shortage of NGV and LPG cylinders at present. Customers are required to book the cylinders in advance.

-- TNA 2008-05-28

Beg my ignorance, but were are they going to find Nature Gas in PHITSANULOK, are they distributing this stuff via tankers now. As I understood, NGV needs pipeline for distribution. Can someone in the Oil and Gas industry explain how this is done. LPG is in a liquid state under pressure, so that can be easily transported. Can NG be compressed into a liquid state? How does temp and pressure affect NG?

[Plus]

Anyone can open LPG gas station, they mushrooming at the moment. NGV is monopolised by PTT.

[nothingleftbutfaith]

Guaranteed to cause a lot more tank explosions at the gas station, as people will go for the subpar cheaper equipments.

A big mistake.

[tigerbeer]

Guaranteed to cause a lot more tank explosions at the gas station, as people will go for the subpar cheaper equipments.

A big mistake.

a card is issued or a letter by the installer of the NGV system. This is shown to the pump attendant while filling up. Only cars installed with equipment provided by installers authorised by PTT are allowed to fill up.

substandard LPG installation would be more of concern.

[jayjayjayjay]

Anyone can open LPG gas station, they mushrooming at the moment. NGV is monopolised by PTT.

LPG is easy to install and manage, I had 2 large tanks installed at a factory I ran 10 years ago. I ran LPG on an old V8 I drove 20 yrs ago in Australia, times have moved on!

NGV is another story, it needs massive pressure and/or a temperature like -260 F to convern to a liquid! Tanks in cars are pressurized to 3600psi. This is rather interesting if we are to think Somchai Whoever is installing these things around the country without due training. I hope someone like PTT does keep it under control for the moment!

tigerbeer, I bet you the reason for this is to ensure the things are tested up to pressue.......

Edited May 29, 2008 by jayjayjayjay

[tigerbeer]

Anyone can open LPG gas station, they mushrooming at the moment. NGV is monopolised by PTT.

LPG is easy to install and manage, I had 2 large tanks installed at a factory I ran 10 years ago. I ran LPG on an old V8 I drove 20 yrs ago in Australia, times have moved on!

NGV is another story, it needs massive pressure and/or a temperature like -260 F to convern to a liquid! Tanks in cars are pressurized to 3600psi. This is rather interesting if we are to think Somchai Whoever is installing these things around the country without due training. I hope someone like PTT does keep it under control for the moment!

tigerbeer, I bet you the reason for this is to ensure the things are tested up to pressue.......

Jayjayjayjay,

yes. i have documentations that i need to give the tax dept when i renew my road tax near year for getting 25% off.

in it, it clearly states the serial number of the tank and what kinds of pressure tests has it gone through. together with the results. a card, similar to credit cards issued by PTT is also what they gave me.

PTT have become more strict after the incident that happened at one of their pumps few months ago.

[ThaiAdventure]

What is the price difference between LPG/NGV and diesel at the pumps? How long would it take for the 18000 THB conversion to break even?

Edited May 29, 2008 by ThaiAdventure

[jayjayjayjay]

Anyone can open LPG gas station, they mushrooming at the moment. NGV is monopolised by PTT.

LPG is easy to install and manage, I had 2 large tanks installed at a factory I ran 10 years ago. I ran LPG on an old V8 I drove 20 yrs ago in Australia, times have moved on!

NGV is another story, it needs massive pressure and/or a temperature like -260 F to convern to a liquid! Tanks in cars are pressurized to 3600psi. This is rather interesting if we are to think Somchai Whoever is installing these things around the country without due training. I hope someone like PTT does keep it under control for the moment!

tigerbeer, I bet you the reason for this is to ensure the things are tested up to pressue.......

Jayjayjayjay,

yes. i have documentations that i need to give the tax dept when i renew my road tax near year for getting 25% off.

in it, it clearly states the serial number of the tank and what kinds of pressure tests has it gone through. together with the results. a card, similar to credit cards issued by PTT is also what they gave me.

PTT have become more strict after the incident that happened at one of their pumps few months ago.

Good to see. It is good to see someone has taken the initiative, I applaud you! How's it going? What type of vehicle are you running it on? I am interested to know if it runs on both diesel and petrol engines, I am aware it needs high compression from the likes of diesel engines, but does it require spark as well? Is the fillup time reasonable? As I understand a fillup will take a little longer than fuel, and your running distance with tanks provided in Thailand will be approx 250-300km if you have 100 - 120 liters. Could you confirm how happy you are at the moment. Are you able to run duel fuel such that you can switch back to the alternative if you cant find a station. I use to have a toggle switch on my LPG. I could change fuels on the run which made it really convenient in country running. Sometimes there was just no LPG filling stations available. The other plus was I had a neutral position on this unmarked switch which meant i could use it as a theift provention device. If someone jumped into the car, they would get no further than 300 meters!! :-) cheers, Jay

[tigerbeer]

Good to see. It is good to see someone has taken the initiative, I applaud you! How's it going? What type of vehicle are you running it on? I am interested to know if it runs on both diesel and petrol engines, I am aware it needs high compression from the likes of diesel engines, but does it require spark as well? Is the fillup time reasonable? As I understand a fillup will take a little longer than fuel, and your running distance with tanks provided in Thailand will be approx 250-300km if you have 100 - 120 liters. Could you confirm how happy you are at the moment. Are you able to run duel fuel such that you can switch back to the alternative if you cant find a station. I use to have a toggle switch on my LPG. I could change fuels on the run which made it really convenient in country running. Sometimes there was just no LPG filling stations available. The other plus was I had a neutral position on this unmarked switch which meant i could use it as a theift provention device. If someone jumped into the car, they would get no further than 300 meters!! :-) cheers, Jay

JJJJ,

I have a honda civic 1.8Vtec. Petrol engines can run 100% on NGV but for diesel, its a Dual Fuel system. I am not very sure but i think it saves about 30% of diesel with CNG. Filling time is less than 5 minutes with the new pumps. Am very pleased with it as i have mentioned before that its already saved me approx 28,000 baht for about 10,000 kms on it.

You can run on either petrol or NGV. there is a little button for that. It automatically switches to NGV after starting the car for a while and switches to petrol when there is no more CNG left in the tank.

a worthwhile conversion for me that is

[jayjayjayjay]

Good to see. It is good to see someone has taken the initiative, I applaud you! How's it going? What type of vehicle are you running it on? I am interested to know if it runs on both diesel and petrol engines, I am aware it needs high compression from the likes of diesel engines, but does it require spark as well? Is the fillup time reasonable? As I understand a fillup will take a little longer than fuel, and your running distance with tanks provided in Thailand will be approx 250-300km if you have 100 - 120 liters. Could you confirm how happy you are at the moment. Are you able to run duel fuel such that you can switch back to the alternative if you cant find a station. I use to have a toggle switch on my LPG. I could change fuels on the run which made it really convenient in country running. Sometimes there was just no LPG filling stations available. The other plus was I had a neutral position on this unmarked switch which meant i could use it as a theift provention device. If someone jumped into the car, they would get no further than 300 meters!! :-) cheers, Jay

JJJJ,

I have a honda civic 1.8Vtec. Petrol engines can run 100% on NGV but for diesel, its a Dual Fuel system. I am not very sure but i think it saves about 30% of diesel with CNG. Filling time is less than 5 minutes with the new pumps. Am very pleased with it as i have mentioned before that its already saved me approx 28,000 baht for about 10,000 kms on it.

You can run on either petrol or NGV. there is a little button for that. It automatically switches to NGV after starting the car for a while and switches to petrol when there is no more CNG left in the tank.

a worthwhile conversion for me that is

TB, the cars starts on fuel then converts across to NGV, that make sense to use the higher energy density fuel to get things warmed up. I am in the market for a Fortuner, so I think I'll have to chase down PPT's demo vehicle in the following website.

http://www.thailandoffroad.com/Data/question.asp?ID=67

JJ

[tigerbeer]

TB, the cars starts on fuel then converts across to NGV, that make sense to use the higher energy density fuel to get things warmed up. I am in the market for a Fortuner, so I think I'll have to chase down PPT's demo vehicle in the following website.

http://www.thailandoffroad.com/Data/question.asp?ID=67

JJ

JJ, go for the 2.7 VVT rather than the D4D model then. Don't bother with diesel. You would save a lot more on fuel expenses. Unless you like the turbo diesels

[monty]

What is the price difference between LPG/NGV and diesel at the pumps? How long would it take for the 18000 THB conversion to break even?

First of, it's not worth it to convert a diesel engine!

Compared to petrol, it depends how much your car consumes, and how many km's you do per month.

In short, after converting from petrol to LPG, a very economical car running 12.5 km/liter (8 liter/100 km) will save you 2 Baht/km.

A mid sized saloon running 10mk/liter (10lit/100 km) will save you 2.5 Baht/km

A fuel guzzler (like my Volvo 245) getting 7km/lit (14 lit/100 km) will save 3.5 Baht/km!

Calculated at 38 Baht/liter for petrol, which I think is already more now!

[Cuban]

What is the price difference between LPG/NGV and diesel at the pumps? How long would it take for the 18000 THB conversion to break even?

Very roughly: LPG-Diesel = 30Baht a liter/Kilo difference. So your cost (18,000 seems cheap) will be recovered in 600 kilos of LPG purchased, or about 6,000 Km travelled.

I was reading about E85 and diesel conversions the other day this seems to be the route that the E85 fuel would be looking at (any other thoughts on this subject welcomed) - but again the technology for converting engines seems a bit advanced for what I have seen in Thai dealerships let alone the side road service places. In five years there will be a lot of broken cars out there.

[johnch121]

if it is of any intrest i have a hyundai car which has an NGV system fitted the car has front damage would need to be towed away if you want any more details then email me at [email protected] the ngv system is fine there is know damage to it and it has not long been serviced

[ThaiAdventure]

What is the price difference between LPG/NGV and diesel at the pumps? How long would it take for the 18000 THB conversion to break even?

First of, it's not worth it to convert a diesel engine!

ummm... Why?

Difficulty? Price differential? Reliability? Your sisters' boyfriends', uncles' budgy has a weak heart?

[tigerbeer]

What is the price difference between LPG/NGV and diesel at the pumps? How long would it take for the 18000 THB conversion to break even?

First of, it's not worth it to convert a diesel engine!

ummm... Why?

Difficulty? Price differential? Reliability? Your sisters' boyfriends', uncles' budgy has a weak heart?

we must be talking about NGV here. Cause LPG not able to install on a diesel engine.. or can u /?? i dont know..

but NGV conversion to DDF would only save you 30%. Takes a long time before you breakeven on your costs of installing it.

yes its not worth it.

[Heng]

Couln't afford the conversion price either so the garage loaned him the money secured on his car.

Now he can't keep up the loan repayments and is afraid of losing his car!

An awful lot of people make near sighted decisions like that.

Worse off are often are the folks who want to buy a new car to save on gas, when they have a perfectly running and paid off or nearly paid off older car. Not all of course... there are cases where it's justified... like mothballing an S-500 or Hummer for an Altis or Civic or something. Quite often, that's just a rationalization to buy a new car.

[Plus]

DDF, diesel with NGV, should be ok for a new Chevy Colorado, if the price difference is not big, but retrofitting an old engine is expensive, savings are not that high, and the truck will run on diesel+NGV mixture only. If you run out of either gas or diesel it won't even start.

That's what I read about the system and it sounds very risky with a limited NGV range.

E85 compatible cars - Volvo and other Euros can import them in a few months time and sell them for 3 million baht. Affordable Japanese e85 cars are years away, if they really start working on it now, which they won't cos no one can guarantee that e85 fuel will be available, ever. Japs are not going to invest in something like that.

[jayjayjayjay]

DDF, diesel with NGV, should be ok for a new Chevy Colorado, if the price difference is not big, but retrofitting an old engine is expensive, savings are not that high, and the truck will run on diesel+NGV mixture only. If you run out of either gas or diesel it won't even start.

That's what I was wondering. If this is the best case scenario for diesel's, the Thailand is on a long road to getting NGV universally accepted...