I Just Don't Get It

[garro]

I have been reading the posts here and people make statements with such certainty!

"I'm sure he believed himself to be . . ."

"My Ajahn tells me that there's no such thing as . . ."

But when I enquire a little bit more to find out what the statement really means I suddenly get,

"there is very little certainty in the world . ."

"Presumably . . ."

"I suspect that . . ."

"I could be wrong."

So is Buddhism about the absolute truth and absolute certainty or is it wishy-washy, maybe it could be this or it could be that, I suspect it could be this and I doubt it is that?

People are free to cast aspersions like -

"Organised religion.

The biggest money making scam on the planet!

Promise the gullible, desperate or just plain stupid what they don't or cannot have and they will pay up."

"I have asked multiple thais as to where the cash goes and whats done with it and unbeleivable NO ONE KNOWS

And if Monks arn't supposed to touch money then who counts all that money in the temples and the donation boxes

Please enlighten me"

I cannot enlighten you but I would just like say a few things. Maybe some people will contradict me for the sake of it but they are most welcome to do that!

Not every policemen is an honest policeman. But this doesn't mean that every policeman is a dishonest policeman.

Not every monk that wears the robe has a heart full of compassion and love or a mind full of wisdom.

Does that mean all monks just want to fleece you and temples have no other objective but to enrich themselves?

Will no one speak up and say the monks I know are honest men looking for the truth and are not interested in making money?

I don't know any monks but I have heard Ajahn Brahm on the internet and he didn't sound like he is in it for the money!

I like Buddhism because I keep hearing that Buddha was born a Prince with all the material pleasures he wanted and he gave it all up to be a simple wondering monk with no material possession except for 2 robes, I assume he had a spare on wash days and a bowl and maybe some chanting beads.

Whether monks are just fleecing people or not I leave that to your opinion, its not for me to convince you one way or another, but I do know with absolute certainty that Buddhism is all about not being attached to material things!

James, Perhaps you should read your own posts again.

Maybe you will learn somehing about yourself - or maybe not?

In my case, it is important to have a learner's mind and to not be too attached to my opinions.

I think back to things I believed about Buddhism twenty-three years ago and I feel embarassed about them.

At the time I was very certain in my beliefs and very attached to them- mind you I was very young.

Since then I have become less interested in 'Buddhism' and more interested in trying to find what the Buddha might have been saying and applying this knowledge to my life. I have little interest in deciding who is a 'real' Buddhist and who isn't.

Ajahn Brahm is a great speaker and very knowlegable. He is also dependent on money to support his ability to teach around the world. He thinks this is important and I tend to agree. Other monks are convinced that their way of spending donations is the correct way to inspire their followers.

Anyway, this is way off topic.

[bankei]

I have been a Buddhist for about 30 years and still regard myself as one. I was also a monk in Thailand. But I would have to agree with the comments on organised religion above. I now rarely go into a temple in Thailand even though I have a house just opposite one.

In my local temple I believe the money that is collected in the boxes and the donations to the 'wat' are just put in the bank. This money then pays for temple related expenses such as running costs, staff wages (ladies that help at breakfast etc), new building works (which costs a fortune), chaffer for the abbot and his brand new car, petrol etc. Some money may also be sent to the headquarters in Bangkok. Maybe even the mobile phone bills of the management monks too.

Other money that is donated to individual monks is kept by those monks and spent as they please.

Bankei

[jamesc2000]

James, Perhaps you should read your own posts again.

Maybe you will learn somehing about yourself - or maybe not?

In my case, it is important to have a learner's mind and to not be too attached to my opinions.

I think back to things I believed about Buddhism twenty-three years ago and I feel embarassed about them.

At the time I was very certain in my beliefs and very attached to them- mind you I was very young.

Since then I have become less interested in 'Buddhism' and more interested in trying to find what the Buddha might have been saying and applying this knowledge to my life. I have little interest in deciding who is a 'real' Buddhist and who isn't.

Ajahn Brahm is a great speaker and very knowlegable. He is also dependent on money to support his ability to teach around the world. He thinks this is important and I tend to agree. Other monks are convinced that their way of spending donations is the correct way to inspire their followers.

Anyway, this is way off topic.

Garro, thank you very much for your free advice. I have always found the true value of free advice exactly that.

But thank you anyway.

I would like to humbly disagree with you when you say that you were way off topic when you write, Ajahn Brahm is also dependent on money to support his ability to teach around the world and other monks are convinced that their way of spending donations is the correct way to inspire their followers.

I actually think you were bang on topic!

Especially the title being - “I just don’t get it” and the OP posting - I still cant get an answer to where all the money goes that all the people give to the monks temples boxes all over the place filled with cash . . . What good do they do with it as i have not seen anything other than building lavish temples so people can continue to give the little money they have.”

People might disagree but I think you were addressing the questions and in my opinion you were addressing them very well too!

However I would have to strongly agree with you if you meant you were off topic when you keep writing about yourself. - “I think back to things I believed about Buddhism twenty-three years ago and I feel embarrassed about them. At the time I was very certain in my beliefs and very attached to them- mind you I was very young,”

However off topic or not, I did find what you write about yourself very interesting. Especially - “At the time I was very certain in my beliefs and very attached to them- mind you I was very young.”

Sometimes the more things change, the more they remain the same and if you felt your beliefs about Buddhism (Buddhism being about a belief system is something absolutely new to me and it is something I know absolutely nothing about) when you were young embarrasses you today, why do you think your beliefs today are any better?

Some people like to think they grow wiser as they grow older, sometimes they just grow older.

[garro]

James, Perhaps you should read your own posts again.

Maybe you will learn somehing about yourself - or maybe not?

In my case, it is important to have a learner's mind and to not be too attached to my opinions.

I think back to things I believed about Buddhism twenty-three years ago and I feel embarassed about them.

At the time I was very certain in my beliefs and very attached to them- mind you I was very young.

Since then I have become less interested in 'Buddhism' and more interested in trying to find what the Buddha might have been saying and applying this knowledge to my life. I have little interest in deciding who is a 'real' Buddhist and who isn't.

Ajahn Brahm is a great speaker and very knowlegable. He is also dependent on money to support his ability to teach around the world. He thinks this is important and I tend to agree. Other monks are convinced that their way of spending donations is the correct way to inspire their followers.

Anyway, this is way off topic.

Garro, thank you very much for your free advice. I have always found the true value of free advice exactly that.

You seem very concerned with other people's practice and with what a true 'Buddhist' is. Perhaps you should focus on your self. Unless of course you feel Buddhism is just about trying to make other people follow the correct path. Anyway James, I am sure you are a wonderful chap, but this conversation is not really going anywhere is it. Good luck to you anyway.

Edited June 10, 2008 by garro

[0Mix1up]

Recently I asked, having seen a number of very poor people, do people dress as monks to receive free food?

Possibly an ignorant question.

The reply was that would be very bad you may die and if you needed food you could go to the wat and the monks would share theirs.

I have no evidence of this and just repeating what I was told.

So some money maybe used as social welfare.

[garro]

Recently I asked, having seen a number of very poor people, do people dress as monks to receive free food?

Possibly an ignorant question.

The reply was that would be very bad you may die and if you needed food you could go to the wat and the monks would share theirs.

I have no evidence of this and just repeating what I was told.

So some money maybe used as social welfare.

Yes OMIX1, the temples are places where anybody can go and get food. Many temples get a lot more alms food than they can eat so they share it with the poor. I have lived in Thai village and city and this is common. It should also be remembered that the monks provide many worthwhile and free services such as; palliative care, drug rehabs, and care for the abandoned. Many abandoned children are taking care of in temples as well as abandoned animals.

[sabaijai]

Especially the title being - “I just don’t get it” and the OP posting - I still cant get an answer to where all the money goes that all the people give to the monks temples boxes all over the place filled with cash . . . What good do they do with it as i have not seen anything other than building lavish temples so people can continue to give the little money they have.”

Buddhism in Thailand is much like organised religion elsewhere, that is, supported by private donations which are divided among public works, charitable endeavours, ceremonial services, administrative costs, and occasionally more questionable ends as well.

Since several members have answered the query already and the OP hasn't posted further, topic closed.